Do "works of righteousness" declare the Atonement to be incomplete?

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Dorothy Mae

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Where in the bible does it say we can sin in heaven? Or was this a grammatical error? Meaning did you mean "The worst sinners in history, can be in heaven, who sin to their dying hour..."
No commas should be there because the time of sinning is defined in “who sin to their dying day” and if you put commas there, you’ve separated the noun from the verb out of the sentence. The phrase within commas can be removed from a sentence and it’s still a full sentence. If that is done with your suggestion, the verb is completely gone and it makes no sense not to mention the main point is gone.
One sin, many sins, all fall short of the glory of God. No matter if you sin once, or the worst sins... all sins are sins. Either His Blood covers ALL sin or no sin.
For God, who has all sins written down, it makes a difference on Judgment day. For the victims of our sin, it makes a huge difference. Only for the perpetrator does it make no difference.
 
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Natsumi Lam

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No commas should be there because the time of sinning is defined in “who sin to their dying day” and if you put commas there, you’ve separated the noun from the verb out of the sentence. The phrase within commas can be removed from a sentence and it’s still a full sentence. If that is done with your suggestion, the verb is completely gone and it makes no sense not to mention the main point is gone.

For God, who has all sins written down, it makes a difference on Judgment day. For the victims of our sin, it makes a huge difference. Only for the perpetrator does it make no difference.

So are you saying we can sin in heaven? Or am i reading it wrong or misunderstanding?
 
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Dorothy Mae

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So are you saying we can sin in heaven? Or am i reading it wrong or misunderstanding?
The sentence says “who sinned to their dying hour” which is clearly while they were still alive. So no sin in Heaven.
 
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Dorothy Mae

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As crazy as that sounds, it is true doctrinally. As I understand it. Only God can decide the fate of a reprobate. It's not our call. There is no way we can undo what Christ has done for us. The story of the Prodigal is a beautiful example of this. And this is really what this topic is about. The Atonement is complete. We cannot add or subtract anything.
Anyone an fall away from the faith and be lost eternally. Jesus warned us as to how it can happen and said that MANY WOULD fall away from the faith.
 
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Saint Steven

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When Paul condemns the Law, he is referring to the Old Law (old contract) and not the New Law (new contract). For Romans 7:6 says we are to serve in newness of spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

The oldness of the letter is the Law of Moses and not the commands from Jesus Christ and His followers. In fact, here is New Testament proof that believers are still under God's laws (i.e. God's laws according to the new contract or New Covenant):

#1. There is the command (Law) to believe on Jesus Christ (1 John 3:23). Are you not under this law in regards to salvation?

#2. There is the Law of Faith (Romans 3:27). We are saved by God's grace through faith (See Ephesians 2:8-9). No faith and there is no grace.

#3. God commands all men to repent (Acts of the Apostles 17:30). Jesus says, "except you repent, you shall all likewise perish." (Luke 13:3).

#4. There is Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:2). Keeping this New Covenant Law makes us free from the Law of Sin and Death (i.e. the Old Law). Please read Romans 8:2. Do you want to be free from the Law of sin and death (i.e. the Old Law)? Then you have to obey this particular New Covenant Law in Romans 8:2 to do it. We have to be free from the Old Law, because Paul says if we seek to be justified by the Law (i.e. the Old Law), we have fallen from grace (Galatians 5:4).


Side Note:

Before you said that a "belief" was not the same thing as a "work." Yet, Jesus believes that having a "belief" is a "work of God."

28 "Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."
(John 6:28-29).​

Jesus says in verse 29, "This is the work of God, that you believe on him whom He has sent."

This means you are saved by a work because Jesus regards the "work of God" as being defined as to: "believe on Him."
Oh, that's right. I had forgotten that you folks have even corrupted the word "faith". Defining it as a strict formula to adhere to instead of belief and trust. Thus turning it into yet another yoke of bondage. Thanks.
 
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Saint Steven

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Anyone an fall away from the faith and be lost eternally. Jesus warned us as to how it can happen and said that MANY WOULD fall away from the faith.
The good shepherd goes after lost sheep. He leaves the ninety-nine to find the one.

Luke 15:3-7
Then Jesus told them this parable: 4 “Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Doesn’t he leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it? 5 And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders 6 and goes home. Then he calls his friends and neighbors together and says, ‘Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep.’ 7 I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Anyone an fall away from the faith and be lost eternally. Jesus warned us as to how it can happen and said that MANY WOULD fall away from the faith.

No one is eternally lost unless they die or Jesus returns while they are still in a fallen state. They can always repent and turn back to Christ and be accepted and forgiven.
 
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May I know why you thought I held an unconditional salvation view?

Did I say that you hold to the "Unconditional Salvation View" like Calvinism's Unconditional Election?

No.

There are two major views of Conditional Security (Conditional Salvation).

Conditional Security Type #1. - The Wesleyan version that says that works do not merit salvation but a true saving faith will work by love (Which is a contradictory statement). In this view, an excessive lifestyle of sin is the mark of the kind of faith that does not save. Today, in certain groups, this kind of belief has morphed into the kind of belief that says that one grievous unrepentant sin may not necessarily separate a believer from God.

Conditional Security Type #2. - The Biblical version that says that both God's grace and works play a part in the salvation process; And even just one grievous sin can separate a believer from God unless they repent.​

You no doubt believe that salvation is at least conditioned upon a person accepting Christ or believing in Jesus as their Savior (and possibly also includes a continued belief in Christ for salvation). But faithfulness (living holy and doing good works)? Can sin separate a believer from God unless they repent? Is that a part of the faith? You tell me.
 
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MDC

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Oh, that's right. I had forgotten that you folks have even corrupted the word "faith". Defining it as a strict formula to adhere to instead of belief and trust. Thus turning it into yet another yoke of bondage. Thanks.
These folk are a perfect example of how they declare the atonement of Christ to be incomplete
 
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No one is eternally lost unless they die or Jesus returns while they are still in a fallen state. They can always repent and turn back to Christ and be accepted and forgiven.

However, unfortunately there are certain sins that are unforgivable.

#1. Speaking bad words (blasphemy) against the Holy Ghost (Matthew 12:32).

#2. Worshiping the beast in the upcoming future (Note: These kind of folk never even had their names written in the book of life even before the foundation of the world was laid (See Revelation 13:8 and Revelation 17:8); God knew what their choice was going to be.).

#3. Apostasy (Denying Jesus as one's Savior after having the working of the Holy Spirit in one's life) (Hebrews 6:4-6 and Hebrews 3:12) (Note: When Peter denied the Lord, he did not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit yet). (Note 2: There are some I have talked with who have felt they have denied the Lord in some way (after walking with the Lord by the Spirit) and they desired to be forgiven, but they couldn't feel any forgiveness from the Lord anymore like before - No matter how many times they kept trying to seek forgiveness with Him).
 
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Natsumi Lam

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However, unfortunately there are certain sins that are unforgivable.

#1. Speaking bad words (blasphemy) against the Holy Ghost.

#2. Worshiping the beast in the upcoming future (Note: These kind of folk never even had their names written in the book of life even before the foundation of the world was laid; God knew what their choice was going to be.).

#3. Apostasy (Denying Jesus as one's Savior after having the working of the Holy Spirit in one's life) (Hebrews 6:4-6 and Hebrews 3:12) (Note: When Peter denied the Lord, he did not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit yet). (Note 2: There are some I have talked with who have felt they have denied the Lord in some way (after walking with the Lord by the Spirit) and they desired to be forgiven, but they couldn't feel any forgiveness from the Lord anymore like before - No matter how many times they kept trying to seek forgiveness with Him).

And taking the Mark
 
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These folk are a perfect example of how they declare the atonement of Christ to be incomplete

Universalists can make the same claim. That does not mean they are correct. In other words, what separates the Universalist belief from the Belief Alone Type Faiths? Both ignore sin or morality on some level. There is no true justice that is preserved in either of these kinds of beliefs because a person can sin and still be saved (on some level). But Romans 2:11 says God is not a respecter of persons and Romans 2:6 says God will judge all men according to their deeds.
 
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And taking the Mark

Right, I believe that, too. I was merely quoting what the Scripture was saying in Revelation 13:8 and Revelation 17:8.
 
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"So, we are justified by keeping the law?"

So you don't believe the you are justified by the command (law) that says we have to believe on Jesus? Please see 1 John 3:23. Are you not under this commandment in 1 John 3:23? If not, then that would make you a Universalist. Universalists believe everyone is saved regardless of what they do and not even a belief is necessary. I see the belief alone type beliefs as not being far behind Universalism. Life is pretty meaningless to live if you can just live life however you please and still be saved by having a belief on Jesus (or in simply doing nothing). Remember, God did not destroy the world with a global flood because folks did not have a belief alone in Him, He destroyed the world because of their wickedness. He was grieved by their wickedness or sin and not in their lack of having a belief alone in a Savior.

Think, my friend.
 
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Oh, that's right. I had forgotten that you folks have even corrupted the word "faith". Defining it as a strict formula to adhere to instead of belief and trust. Thus turning it into yet another yoke of bondage. Thanks.

I did not make up the terms "Law of Faith" (Romans 3:27), "Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus" (Romans 8:2), and nor did I say, "God... now commandeth all men every where to repent" (Acts of the Apostles 17:30), and nor did I say, "And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ,..." (1 John 3:23).

If you do not like these words in your Bible, then take it up with God and not me.
 
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"So, we are justified by keeping the law?"

5 "And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;" (2 Peter 2:5-6).​

The global flood and Sodom and Gomorrha were examples to all who live ungodly thereafter. The folks who perished during the global flood and in Sodom and Gomorrha died because of their sins and not because they did not have a belief alone in God as their Savior with no change in their lifestyle.
 
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ToBeLoved

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These folk are a perfect example of how they declare the atonement of Christ to be incomplete
Well they believe that Christ isn’t enough and they need to “add” their good deeds onto it for it to possibly be enough.

But they don’t know even if they are going to heaven.

When God isn’t enough, then someone s faith is an issue.
 
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Natsumi Lam

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5 "And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;" (2 Peter 2:5-6).​

The global flood and Sodom and Gomorrha were examples to all who live ungodly thereafter. The folks who perished during the global flood and in Sodom and Gomorrha died because of their sins and not because they did not have a belief alone in God as their Savior with no change in their lifestyle.

This was pre-jesus. Pre- salvation.
 
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