Discussion - Earth calamities and Rumors of war

[klutedavid]

This thread is in reply to posts in the original thread called: "Earth calamities and Rumors of war".

Hello Bible2+.

I agree with much of your post but not the following.

Also, the U.S. never targets civilians, like Russia and Syria do.

In the second world war the US bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki with atomic bombs.
Those cities were full of women and children.
So the US has some history of bombing civilian cities.

 

[jgr]

https://news.antiwar.com/2018/08/31/us-strategy-in-syria-create-quagmires-until-we-get-what-we-want/

 

[Bible2+]

klutedavid said in post #41:

So the US has some history of bombing civilian cities.

Good point. Dresden and Tokyo too, for example.

But that is not the current U.S. policy, which never intentionally targets civilians, like Russia and Syria did in eastern Aleppo, and Eastern Ghouta, and will do to an even-more-horrible extent in the Syrian province of Idlib.

And the West will do nothing. No intervention. No war crimes charges. Nothing.

Why?

 

[Bible2+]

Wayholka quoted a news article in post #1496 of the original thread:

The heifer, born from a natural birth, must be entirely red, with no more than two non-red hairs on its body.

A red heifer without three non-red hairs could be obtained before the ultra-Orthodox Jews rebuild the temple. Or, they could decide to reject that non-Biblical, man-invented, three-hair requirement, and just take any red heifer which fulfills Numbers 19:2, just as they could reject any other insurmountable, man-made requirements for rebuilding the temple. And they could decide, for example, that ultra-Orthodox Jews named "Cohen" (or any of its many, modern variants) must be descended from the Aaronic priesthood. For the Hebrew word "kohen" (H3548) means "priest" (Exodus 35:19). And if the ultra-Orthodox Jews will be led by a false, ultra-Orthodox Jewish "Messiah", he could pronounce all sorts of "dispensations from God" allowing this or that exception (cf. 2 Chronicles 30:2-27), so that (as he could say) "we might do God's will, and commence the greater, ultimate goal of rebuilding His Holy Temple".

--

The original Hebrew word (H3772) translated as "cut off" can refer to when a peace treaty/covenant is "made" (Genesis 21:27). The first century AD fulfillment of Daniel 9:26a was at the Crucifixion, when the true Messiah, Jesus, made the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 9:15-17). But a future fulfillment of Daniel 9:26a will be when the Antichrist makes a peace treaty, which will be a fulfillment of the covenant in Daniel 9:27 and the league in Daniel 11:23, with a future, ultra-Orthodox Jewish false "Messiah" in Jerusalem, after he and his followers are militarily defeated by the Antichrist (Daniel 11:22-23). So this future fulfillment of Daniel 9:26a can refer to this false Messiah being "cut off" in the sense of being "covenanted", peace-treatied.

This treaty will allow this false "Messiah" and his followers to keep a third Jewish temple which they will have built on Jerusalem's Temple Mount (after they and/or great earthquakes have destroyed the Muslim structures there), and to (mistakenly) continue to perform the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices in front of the temple for at least seven years (Daniel 9:27a), so long as they give up the outer court of the temple (Revelation 11:2a) to the Muslims so that they can rebuild the (by that time destroyed) Al Aqsa Mosque on the southern end of the Temple Mount and resume worship there. After "cutting" this peace treaty (Daniel 9:26a), the future Antichrist could appear before the "many" (Daniel 9:27) nations represented at the U.N. General Assembly, and "confirm" (Daniel 9:27) that for at least seven years he will keep this treaty with the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Jerusalem, using this as purported proof to the world that he is (in his words) "a man of peace, and no Hitler".

In Daniel 9:27, "he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease" refers to when, only some 3.5 years after making the peace treaty of Daniel 9:26a,27a and Daniel 11:23a, the future Antichrist will break the treaty, attack the third temple, stop the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices, place the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the temple (Daniel 9:27b, Daniel 11:31, Matthew 24:15), and then sit himself (at least one time) in the temple and proclaim himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). Thus could begin the Antichrist's literal, 3.5-year Luciferian (Satanic) worldwide reign of terror (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9; 2 Thessalonians 2:9).

Wayholka quoted a news article in post #1496 of the original thread:

. . . Moses, who personally prepared the first heifer . . .

Note that he didn't. For it was Eleazar the priest and assistants who did that (Numbers 19:3-10).

Wayholka quoted a news article in post #1496 of the original thread:

From the time of Moses, who personally prepared the first heifer, until the destruction of the Temple, only nine red heifers were prepared. Nonetheless, this was sufficient to maintain the ritual purity of the entire nation for almost 2,000 years.

Note that Moses lived in the 15th century BC, and the temple was destroyed in the first century AD.

So the time was some 1,500 years, not 2,000 years.

Wayholka quoted a news article in post #1496 of the original thread:

Cedarwood, hyssop, and wool or yarn dyed scarlet are added to the fire, and the remaining ashes are placed in a vessel containing spring water to purify a person who has become ritually contaminated by contact with a corpse.

Which shows that no red heifer is even needed before the temple can be built.

For it can be built simply by those who have not touched a corpse.

*******

Wayholka said in post #1498 of the original thread:

It's just in time for the alleged peace deal release on the 25th and the Gog and Magog alliance making strides in Syria right now.

Note that the Gog/Magog invasion of Israel (Ezekiel chapters 38-39) will not occur until after the future Millennium (Revelation 20:7-10).

 

[Bible2+]

keras said in post #1501 of the original thread:

Damascus will be totally destroyed by the Lord . . .

Damascus is said to be the oldest, continually-inhabited city on earth. But it could be destroyed by Israel's nuclear weapons during a future, all-out war (Isaiah 17:1). Yet this war will also break the power of Israel (Isaiah 17:4).

One way that this war could happen was discussed in post #4 of this thread.

keras said in post #1501 of the original thread:

Damascus will be totally destroyed by the Lord, on His Day of wrath; the Sixth Seal devastation of all the Middle East area.

Regarding the sixth seal (Revelation 6:12-14), note that it could be fulfilled in our future by a huge volcanic eruption (possibly of the Yellowstone Caldera), which will occur during only the first stage of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. This eruption could begin with a large earthquake (Revelation 6:12), signaling the sudden rising of magma within the volcano. When it erupts, it could shoot so much ash and smoke into the sky that the sun will appear darkened and the moon blood-red (Revelation 6:12b), like happens during large forest fires. The volcano could also shoot blobs of red-hot magma into the sky, which as they fall back down could appear like falling stars (Revelation 6:13). And it could shoot so much super-heated ash and smoke so high and so quickly into the sky that they could form a gigantic mushroom cloud, which will make the sky (the first heaven) look like a scroll being rolled up (Revelation 6:14). Earthquakes connected with the eruption could be so large that they set off a chain reaction of other earthquakes in nearby faults and volcanoes, which could set off even more earthquakes farther away, and so on, so that earthquakes will end up affecting every mountain and island, moving each of their positions at least a little bit (Revelation 6:14b).

keras said in post #1501 of the original thread:

Zephaniah 1:14-18, 2:4-6, 2:9-12, 3:8

Regarding Zephaniah 1:14-18, it refers to an ancient day of the Lord, like, for example, the ancient day of the Lord in Jeremiah 46:2,10. In its context, Zephaniah 1:14-18 was prophesying the destruction of Judah and neighboring countries (Zephaniah 1:4 to 2:5) by the Babylonians in the sixth century BC.

-

Regarding Zephaniah 2:4-6,9-12:

Zephaniah 2:4-5 can refer to the defeat of ancient Philistia by the Babylonians in the sixth century BC.

Zephaniah 2:6-7 can refer to some Jews living in Philistia after returning from their Babylonian captivity.

Zephaniah 2:8-10 can refer to the ancient nations of Moab and Ammon magnifying themselves against Judah at its defeat by the Babylonians, not realizing that they too would be defeated by the Babylonians, and that Jews would live in their lands after the Jews' return from their Babylonian captivity.

Zephaniah 2:11 will not be fulfilled until the future Millennium (Zechariah 14:9,16-19).

Zephaniah 2:12 can refer to an ancient defeat of the Ethiopians.

Similarly, Zephaniah 2:13-15 refers to the defeat of Nineveh and the Assyrian empire by the Babylonians in 612 BC.

-

Regarding Zephaniah 3:8, it could refer to the gathering of the nations to Jerusalem right before Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (Zechariah 14:2-21) in flaming fire (2 Thessalonians 1:7-10), followed by the Millennium in Zephaniah 3:9 (cf. Zechariah 14:16).

 

[jgr]

Ron Paul: U.S. Is Defending al-Qaeda in Idlib

 

[Bible2+]

Wayholka quoted a news article in post #1510 of the original thread:

Russia has its own air defense in northern Syria, including the S-400 system. Speculation has stirred over whether Russia would activate the system to protect its Syrian ally or to protect air strikes targeting Iranian targets in Syria.

That is a very great danger.

There is no way that Israel could have foreseen Syria mistakenly shooting down a Russian plane during an Israeli air strike against Iranian targets in Syria.

But it has happened.

And so Russia could use that as an excuse to take total control over Syrian air defenses, employing its fearsome antiaircraft missiles against "any intrusion by non-Syrian-allies into Syrian airspace". This would include not only Israeli aircraft, but French, U.S., U.K., Turkish aircraft as well.

This will be a dire development. For Russia's S-400 could defend Syria against punitive air strikes even if Assad goes ahead and uses chemical weapons in Idlib.

So the West will have to use only ground-hugging cruise missiles against Syria.

And Israel will have to stop launching its missiles from aircraft that are in range of Russia's SAMs.

Israel will have to employ ground-hugging missiles as well.

Or, Israel will have to begin targeting any Russian SAM batteries that target Israeli aircraft, opening the way for an all-out war between Israel and Russian forces in Syria.

But then Russia will have bit off more than it can chew.

For if it goes to war with Israel, it will be going to war with the U.S., Israel's staunch ally.

Also, Russia blew it by making Idlib a concentration camp for Syrian rebels. It thought that this would facilitate its taking quicker control over other regions, leaving Idlib for last. But it mistakenly allowed Idlib to become too big a concentration camp to be bombed to smithereens without causing too much blowback from Turkey and the West.

--

Also, we will have to wait and see how real the agreement is between Russia and Turkey regarding Idlib.

Erdogan has done a yeoman's service in protecting the millions of innocent Syrian civilians in Idlib from threatened, all-out, murderous bombings by Syria and Russia, as happened in eastern Aleppo and Eastern Ghouta.

The West continues to sit on its hands, threatening retaliation against only chemical-weapons use, as if civilians being intentionally blown up by a conventional, Syrian barrel bomb or a Russian munition is okay.

Come on. Murder is murder. And war crimes charges must be brought. Just as Western military intervention must occur.

For Russia will "incrementally" encroach on any supposed "buffer zone" in Idlib, claiming that it is only targeting "hard-core terrorists" who are refusing to disarm, and who are continuing to attack Syrian forces with mortars.

So the "buffer zone" will eventually collapse into fire and destruction, with a hundred thousand civilians intentionally targeted and murdered.

And the West will do nothing, just as it did nothing regarding the thousands of civilians intentionally targeted and murdered in eastern Aleppo and Eastern Ghouta.

But Erdogan is redeeming himself (if only so that millions of Idlib refugees don't swamp Turkey), while he rightfully claims that he has been "abandoned by the West".

What has happened to the West?

How did it become so weak? So immoral?

 

[Bible2+]

TribulationSigns said in post #1530 of the original thread:

. . . you cannot interpret God's prophecies with World News . . .

Note that you can, if a prophecy from God refers to events in the world (e.g. Luke 21:25-26).

TribulationSigns said in post #1530 of the original thread:

. . . as the newspaper Eschatology is NOT a biblical exegesis.

Christian Futurism considers today's news stories regarding such things as geopolitics and technology so that the news can help Christians to consider different ways for how exactly the not-yet-fulfilled, yet still understandable, and almost entirely literal, highly detailed prophecies in Revelation chapters 6 to 18 might be fulfilled in our future. For example, Christians at any time in the past could understand that Revelation 6:4-8 refers to a horrible, literal war which will start the future Tribulation, and which, with its aftermath of famines and epidemics, will end up killing one-fourth of the world. Christians at any time in the past could understand this without having to know, for example, what nation will start the war, or what weapons will be employed in the war. What Christian Futurism does is consider these things.

(See post #4 of this thread for one possibility)

For another example, Christians at any time in the past could understand that Revelation 13:14-15 refers to a literal image (Greek: "eikon", something made in the likeness) of the future Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast"), which image will appear to be alive, and speak. And people will have to worship it or be killed. Christians at any time in the past could understand this without having to know, for example, whether the image will be two-dimensional or three-dimensional (or both), or what it will be made of, or how it will be made to speak, or appear to be alive. What Christian Futurism does is consider these things.

(See the next post for one possibility)

Preterist Christians hate newspaper exegesis, because they think that Bible prophecy has been fulfilled. But while they rail against Futurist Christians for searching today's newspapers for any possible fulfillments, no matter how strained, Preterists themselves search ancient newspapers, as it were, search ancient histories, for any possible fulfillments, no matter how strained.

So all Christians partake in newspaper exegesis to some extent, it just depends on how old the newspapers are in which they search.

--

Also, to stay truly informed, Christians should buy local, daily newspapers with national and international stories from The Associated Press, The New York Times, The Washington Post, Reuters, and Bloomberg News. Christians may be able to buy these local newspapers cheaply at their local dollar store.

Also, although it is expensive, Christians should try to subscribe to The Wall Street Journal and The New York Times, which might only be available through direct delivery, but which can be delivered throughout the U.S.

Regarding TV news, even national TV news can lack much information, but it can still be worthwhile to watch some national TV news. Besides watching national broadcast and cable newscasts on ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox News, Fox Business, CNN, MSNBC, CNBC, and C-SPAN, Christians should also watch foreign, English-language cable newscasts on NHK (from Japan), the BBC, RT, and France 24 (if not blocked by the U.S. government).

Also, Worthy Christian Forums is very helpful in highlighting important news which you will not hear about anywhere else.

Of course, all news sources have biases. And so every news story, from whatever source, should be taken with a grain of salt, considering the source and what interests it may wish to further. It is best to get your news from a wide number of different sources, so as not to get locked into any one particular, biased worldview.

Also, to gain a broad foundation of general knowledge, you can buy a full set of encyclopedia volumes cheaply from your local library's used book store. Then, over months and years, read the encyclopedia volumes from A to Z, over and over again. You will be amazed at how much information you will retain, and how interesting and useful this information can be, even with regard to interpreting Bible prophecy, such as in the book of Revelation. It is also helpful to have large, printed atlases in which you can look up detailed maps of world locations while you are reading encyclopedia entries or news articles about these locations. A good map can help a location to come alive in your mind as you see its hills, mountains, rivers, railroads, highways, bays, etc., and how they relate to the surrounding region: to neighboring cities, states, and countries.

Also, after you have become used to reading the encyclopedia, and long newspaper articles, you will be shocked at how relatively void of facts many TV newscasts can be, especially if they have become mere "infotainment", designed to get as many viewers as possible (for commercials). That is, they are aimed at the "lowest common denominator" among viewers, most of whom have no interest in, or patience for, a lot of detailed facts. That is, they do not want to hear too many facts, but want to be kept entertained by the news, just as by any other TV program.

 

[Bible2+]

The "image of the beast" (Revelation 13:15) could be an android image of the future Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast), which the Antichrist's False Prophet (of Revelation 13:11-16, Revelation 19:20) could cause to be made after the Antichrist receives a terrible head wound (Revelation 13:3,14b). For this injury could leave the Antichrist's facial and bodily appearance permanently marred, and could render him unable to speak clearly, like someone after a bad stroke, so that the Antichrist will not want to ever appear or speak in public again.

Did you ever see that movie "Dave"? It had a President who was in a coma, so his handlers found a regular guy who looked exactly like the President, and had him be a public stand-in for the President. He was able to speak just like the President did. It could be like that with the Antichrist's image. It could be the Antichrist's "Dave", his double, which appears and speaks (Revelation 13:15) before the world instead of his wounded self. But instead of letting people think that the Antichrist's android image is the Antichrist himself, the False Prophet could tell people from the beginning that the image is not the Antichrist himself, but still fully represents him.

In Revelation 13:15 the original Greek word translated as "life", or "breath" (pneuma: G4151), can mean "spirit", in the sense of consciousness (1 Corinthians 2:11a, Luke 1:47), so that the android could appear to have a spirit, to have consciousness. The way that this could be achieved would be through the android having wireless connections to huge banks of neural-network supercomputers running highly advanced artificial intelligence software. The False Prophet could claim that the Antichrist's consciousness dwells within the android by means of the neural networks having been imprinted with the Antichrist's own brain patterns. But this could be a lie, in that the android will not actually have the Antichrist's consciousness, or any true consciousness, but will only appear to have consciousness, by its being able to pass even the most stringent Turing Test. This is a test whereby one speaks with a computer and cannot tell whether or not it has consciousness, because all of its answers are the same as if it had consciousness.

But the android's "consciousness" could appear far more advanced than any human's. For it could have access to huge databases containing every fact known to man, so that the android will appear to be omniscient. In this way, it could convince the world that it is not just a machine, but a material incarnation, a machine avatar, of the true God, a literal "deus ex machina", a literal "God from a machine". And this machine "God" could boast not only of his mental powers, but also of his physical powers. For his android body could be extremely strong. And he could boast of the "immortality" of his body, which could be made of titanium covered with some practically everlasting flesh-like silicone. People could be completely awestruck by his (what they could call) "omniscient wisdom, his strength, his immortality". They could consider him more than worthy of worship by (in their words) "mere humanity, which is so mentally and physically limited, made out of mere flesh and blood, which is so weak and so mortal". The non-Christian world will actually worship the Antichrist's image (Revelation 13:15), just as it will actually worship Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) and the Antichrist (Revelation 13:4,8, Revelation 12:9).

The Antichrist's image could be placed standing in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of a future, third Jewish temple in Jerusalem, so that the image will become the abomination of desolation (of Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31). And to make it easy for everyone in the world to see the Antichrist's image and worship it (Revelation 13:15), it could appear on every smartphone, tablet, laptop, PC, TV, GPS navigation system, and electronic billboard at set times each day. And to make it possible for everyone to interact with it personally, it could appear as a lifelike, computer-generated image on each individual's smartphone, speaking in and understanding each individual's language, conversing with each individual with personalized messages and responses devised by supercomputers running artificial intelligence and language software.

And it could discuss with them even the most intimate details of their lives. For it could have access to huge databases compiled by the Antichrist's worldwide intelligence, law enforcement, economic, and health agencies, databases containing all of the facts about everyone: who their family and friends are, where they live and work, who their neighbors and coworkers are, how much they make, what cars and properties they own and use, where they go, where they shop, what they buy, where they eat out, what shows and videos they watch, what they read, what they say, what they post on the internet, what their health problems are, etc., so that the Antichrist's image could seem to know everything about everyone.

And the worship of the image could be connected with a daily surveillance and subjugation of everyone. For the image's supercomputers could make his image automatically appear on everyone's smartphone at set times each day to be worshipped. And smartphones contain GPS chips which can be secretly pinged remotely to determine the location of the smartphones. So when the image appears on everyone's smartphone, the image's supercomputers could ping the GPS chip of everyone's smartphone and know where everyone is.

Also, smartphones contain cameras and microphones which can be remotely opened secretly to see and hear what is going on around the smartphones at any time. So when the Antichrist's image appears on everyone's smartphone, the image's supercomputers could open the cameras and microphones of everyone's smartphone to determine what everyone is doing and saying. And the image could then demand that the individuals worship him as God, saying some set prayer of praise and adoration. And if any individual refuses, the image's supercomputers could detect his noncompliance and notify the nearest police officers of his location, and order the officers to arrest him for blasphemy and treason. He could then be given a chance to be "reformed" (in a brainwashing camp, or through physical torture, if necessary). But if he proves recalcitrant, he will be executed (Revelation 13:15) by being beheaded (Revelation 20:4).

The beheading process itself could be made into a televised and webcasted spectacle to serve not only as a dire warning to anyone thinking of refusing to worship the Antichrist's image, but also to serve as an amazingly-horrific entertainment for the masses, like how the ancient Romans made it an entertainment for the masses to gather them into the Colosseum in Rome and let them watch Christians (who would not worship Caesar) be thrown to lions and devoured alive.

Huge beheading structures could be built by which twenty "traitors" could be beheaded at one time by one fall of one blade. The "traitors" could be bound in a row along an upright "U"-shaped device with a track for a large guillotine blade which could start-out in a resting position at the top of one side of the "U". The blade could be so massive and so sharp that when it is released it will easily slice down through ten necks on one side of the "U", and then continue on by its own momentum up the other side of the "U", shearing off another ten heads. This could all happen so quickly that it will appear as if all twenty heads are struck off almost in unison, followed immediately by twenty geysers of blood rushing out from the beheaded necks for all of the Antichrist's "faithful" to gawk at and cheer over in the comfort of their own homes before their televisions and computers, or wherever they are at the time, watching the spectacle on their smartphones or tablets.

Also, immediately after the show, at the site where it took place, teams of surgeons could rush in to "harvest" all of the fresh organs and other body parts from the beheaded bodies to be used for transplants (beheading being the best way for a body to die if you want to harvest its parts). What is left of the bodies could then be stuffed in shipping containers, which, once full, could be painted black and stacked like stones into a gigantic "Black Pyramid of Death", which could eventually reach some thirty stories high and contain tens of millions of bodies. A huge plaque could be erected in front of the Pyramid which will read: "This is a monument to the shame of YHWH, who created everything to die". (Of course, the truth is that He didn't, for He created Adam and Eve immortal. It was not until they sinned that they became mortal: Genesis 2:17. And YHWH will restore immortality to Christians through Jesus Christ: Romans 6:23. Also, any such plaque would be hypocritical, for it will be the Antichrist who will have murdered the people entombed in the Pyramid of Death, not YHWH. And so it will actually be a monument to how those who hate YHWH and his wisdom love death: Proverbs 8:36b.)

Regarding the worship of the Antichrist's image, to foster a group dynamic, every neighborhood and village in the world could be ordered to create a group worship center where everyone in that neighborhood or village will have to gather together at a set time each evening to bow down and prostrate himself or herself before a life-size, lifelike image of the Antichrist, which could be a computer-generated, animated, holographic or widescreen 3D HDTV image of him clothed in beautiful golden robes and standing majestically before them (or sitting on a magnificent golden throne), and speaking computer-generated customized messages to them as a group.

This worship could be accompanied by the most beautiful symphonic music (cf. Daniel 3:5), or whatever is the most beautiful music to the local people, to help them (in the words of the Antichrist's propaganda machine) "Be uplifted into the true spirit of praise and worship of our Great Lord and Master. Praised be His Majestic Name forever and ever!", etc. And what with the wonderful music, and all of their fellow worshippers around them, and customized messages of encouragement spoken in a deep, soothing voice by a life-size, holographic or 3D HDTV image of the Antichrist to certain members of each "worship group", some people in each group could really get into the evening worship sessions, and even (in their words) "Truly feel the Living Presence of our loving God among us, loving us so tenderly, so personally! Oh, how I love Him! He is So Great!"

For example, as a worshipper named Mary, a housewife with two little children, is bowing down before the image of the Antichrist, he could speak forth to her: "Mary! Mary! My beloved handmaid! You are so precious to me, my love. You so faithfully take care of dear little Johnnie and Michelle, whom I have entrusted to you, that you might raise them up to become My servants and faithful worshippers, just as you are. How I love thee, my Mary. How I cherish thee, my precious dove!". And poor Mary could begin to cry with happiness over her dear Lord's kind words to her, not realizing that they are merely the concoction of an artificial-intelligence program running in a neural-network supercomputer down in the basement of some government building.

Also, the world's worship of the Antichrist's image (Revelation 13:15), no matter how blissful it may become for some people, and the world's worship of the Antichrist and Lucifer (Satan) the dragon (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9), will last for less than four years (Revelation 13:5, Daniel 12:11-12) before Jesus Christ returns physically from heaven and completely defeats the Antichrist and Lucifer, and the Antichrist's False Prophet (Revelation 19:20 to 20:3), and Jesus then sets up His own, 1,000-year physical kingdom on the earth with the physically resurrected Church (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29).

 

[jgr]

Christian futurism detests Scripture which declares Christ to be the full and complete fulfillment of all of the promises of God, for said Scripture detonates the speculation and conjecture which fuel futurism's psychotic imaginations. (2 Corinthians 1:20)

It rejects Christ's declaration that He Himself has already fulfilled all prophesied of Him in the law of Moses, the prophets, and the psalms (Luke 18:31; 24:25-27,44), insisting that complete fulfillment still lies in a future which is already two millennia late.

It denies the testacy of God's New Will and Testament, written in the Blood of Jesus Christ His Son, the Divine Testator, simultaneously fulfilling and revoking the Old Will and Testament; because it does not believe that Christ infuses, and is the complete fulfillment of, every divine covenant found within its pages. (Hebrews 9:15-17)

It detests Scripture's declarations that Christ is the sole and exclusive Heir of all things (Hebrews 1:1,2) , insisting that an unregenerate subset of humanity called Israel, which can no longer be genetically isolated because its DNA is present in every person on earth, can still lay illegal claim under the revoked and replaced old covenant to promises and bequests belonging to Christ alone.

It refuses to accept that Christ's perfect, full, and complete sacrifice at Calvary was entirely efficacious for the redemption of humankind by finishing the transgression, making an end of sins, making reconciliation for iniquity, bringing in everlasting righteousness, sealing up vision and prophecy, and anointing the Most Holy. (Daniel 9:24).

It ascribes the work of Christ in fulfilling the New Covenant in His Blood and offering Himself as the final perfect Sacrifice (Daniel 9:26,27), instead to a futurized antichrist conceived in apostasy and contrived to match the speculations of false dogma.

It rejects the vision and sacrifice of historical defenders of the faith within the true Christian Church for eighteen centuries, relegating their immeasurable contributions to the preservation of the faith to nothing more than a parenthesis.

It eschews the study and effort necessary to identify and recognize historical prophetic fulfillments and the deeper meanings of spiritual symbols, choosing instead to substitute the indolence of carnalized literalized pharisaic expectation and arbitrary subjective private interpretation.

It dangles the prospect of a premature exit from the tribulations of earth which Scripture enjoins us to expect and embrace, denigrating the sacrifice of saints through the ages who have experienced and persevered through fiery trial to preserve and relay the true faith throughout its generations.

But it still calls itself “Christian”.

 

[Bible2+]

jgr said in post #50:

Christian futurism detests Scripture which declares Christ to be the full and complete fulfillment of all of the promises of God, for said Scripture detonates the speculation and conjecture which fuel futurism's psychotic imaginations. (2 Corinthians 1:20)

No, Christian Futurism loves Scripture, and is based on Scripture.

Christ Himself is the full and complete fulfillment of all of the promises of God regarding our salvation (John 14:6).

But He is not the fulfillment of, for example, the prophecy regarding the future Antichrist, the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast" (e.g. Revelation 13:4-18).

Also, Christian Futurism is not based on psychotic imaginations, but, for example, on the Biblical vision of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18, which was given to the apostle John (Revelation 1:1-2).

--

But with regard to preterism (whether full or partial), as well as historicism (in its various modern forms), and pre-tribulation rapturism, symbolicism, and spiritualism, they could all be animated by the same spirit of fear: that the Church alive today throughout the world would otherwise have to physically suffer through the future, almost-entirely literal, worldwide Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. For these five views of preterism, historicism, pre-tribulation rapturism, symbolicism, and spiritualism, in their different ways, each gives a mistaken assurance to the Church alive today that it will not have to physically suffer through the Tribulation.

Preterism says that the Tribulation happened in 70 AD (or a few years before and including 70 AD). Historicism says that it happened over a long period in history, such as during the rise and height of the RCC's power in Europe during the Middle Ages and after, or during the rise and spread of Islam in the Middle East and elsewhere during the Middle Ages and after. Pre-tribulation rapturism says that Jesus Christ will return and rapture the Church into the third heaven before the Tribulation. Symbolicism says that the Tribulation is only symbolic of theological themes which Christians have always had to struggle with (e.g. Matthew 6:24), and is symbolic of only-local physical persecutions which some Christians have always had to face, and are still facing today in some places. And spiritualism says that the Tribulation is only spiritual events which go on only within the hearts of individuals.

But when the almost-entirely literal, worldwide Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 begins in our future, the shaky doctrinal wall which (in their different ways) these five views have each tried to build up between the Church and the Tribulation will be completely shattered (Ezekiel 13:10-12) as the Church worldwide begins to physically suffer through the Tribulation (Matthew 24:9-31, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6). These five views may have left some Christians unprepared mentally to undergo this physical suffering, to where these five views could even contribute to some Christians ultimately losing their salvation because of committing apostasy (Hebrews 6:4-8, John 15:6; 2 Timothy 2:12) during the Tribulation, when they will become "offended" that God is letting them and their little ones physically suffer through it (Matthew 24:9-12, Matthew 13:21, Isaiah 8:21-22, Luke 8:13).

Even though the Church today throughout the world will have to physically suffer through the future Tribulation, the Church need not fear this (cf. 1 Peter 4:12-13, Revelation 2:10). For even though many Christians will suffer and die during that time (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13), this will be to their gain, as it will bring their still-conscious souls into heaven to be with Jesus Christ (Philippians 1:21,23; 2 Corinthians 5:8; see also 2 Corinthians 4:17-18; 2 Timothy 2:12). And their physical death will in no way rob them of the blessed hope (Titus 2:13) of obtaining eternal life (Titus 1:2, Titus 3:7) in an immortal, physical resurrection body (Romans 8:23-25, Philippians 3:21, Luke 24:39) at Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6), which will occur immediately after the future Tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

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Job should be looked to by obedient Christians as an example of patient endurance through suffering (James 5:11). For just as God allowed Satan to bring suffering to righteous Job (Job chapters 1-2), so God sometimes allows Satan to bring suffering to even obedient Christians (Revelation 2:10). And during the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, Satan will be allowed to unleash his wrath against even obedient Christians (not in hiding) in every nation (Revelation 12:9,17, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

By the power of Satan working against Job (Job 1:12), Job first suffered the loss of his wealth and servants from murderous robbers (Job 1:14-15,17) and from a natural disaster (Job 1:16), and suffered the death of all of his children in a natural disaster (Job 1:18-19). Then, again by the power of Satan working against him (Job 2:6), Job suffered the loss of his health (Job 2:7). But he remained patient through all of his loss and suffering, never cursing God because of it (Job 2:9-10, Job 1:20-22), but wholly trusting in God through it all (Job 13:15).

Because of this, God greatly rewarded Job after his suffering was over, giving him twice as much wealth as he had before (Job 42:10,12, Job 1:3) and the same number of children as he had before (Job 42:13, Job 1:2), and giving him a very long life (Job 42:16), so that he lived to see his grandchildren, great-grandchildren, and great-great-grandchildren (Job 42:16). While he was still suffering, Job mistakenly thought that his suffering was God's wrath against him (Job 19:11), when in fact God had no wrath against him, because he was righteous in God's eyes (Job 1:1,8, Job 2:3). Instead, Job was suffering from the hand of Satan (Job 1:12, Job 2:7). Similarly, during the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, the suffering of obedient Christians will not be God's wrath against them, but Satan's wrath against them (Revelation 12:9,17, cf. Revelation 2:10).

God allowed Satan to bring loss and suffering to Job to prove that Job did not love God just because God had made him wealthy and secure (Job 1:9-12) and healthy (Job 2:4-6), but that Job would continue to love and trust God even if all of his wealth, family, and health were stripped away from him. Indeed, Job would have continued to love God even if God had killed him (Job 13:15). This is the kind of love for God which Christians will need to have during the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. They will need to continue to love God even when He allows Satan (the dragon) and the future Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") to make war against Biblical Christians (not in hiding) and to physically overcome them in every nation (Revelation 12:9,17, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Matthew 24:9-13), stripping away all of their wealth and family, and leading them away to be beheaded (Revelation 20:4-6). Christians must so love God and so trust Him that they have no fear of suffering or death (Revelation 2:10, Hebrews 2:15), knowing that even death will only bring their still-conscious souls into the presence of Jesus Christ Himself in heaven (2 Corinthians 5:8, Luke 23:43, Revelation 6:9-10), which is far better than remaining in this fallen world (Philippians 1:21,23).

Christians must not love their mortal lives to where they will deny Jesus Christ and the Bible to keep from getting killed (Mark 8:35-38, John 12:25, Revelation 12:11), just as Christians must not love their families to the point where they will deny Jesus Christ and the Bible to keep their families from starving or getting killed (Matthew 10:37, Luke 14:26). And Christians must not love their wealth to the point where they will deny Jesus Christ and the Bible to keep their wealth from being taken away (Matthew 6:24; 1 Timothy 6:9-10, Hebrews 10:34). Jesus Christ requires Christians to forsake everything, even their own lives, for His sake (Luke 14:33, Luke 9:23, Matthew 10:38-39), just as He forsook everything (2 Corinthians 8:9), even His own life, for their sake (Philippians 2:6-8; 2 Corinthians 5:15; 1 Corinthians 15:3).

1 Peter 4:12 ¶Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

jgr said in post #50:

It rejects Christ's declaration that He Himself has already fulfilled all prophesied of Him in the law of Moses, the prophets, and the psalms (Luke 18:31; 24:25-27,44), insisting that complete fulfillment still lies in a future which is already two millennia late.

Key phrase: "prophesied of Him", not of the future Antichrist, for example.

Also, Luke 18:31 and Luke 24:44 do not say that Jesus Christ fulfilled at His first coming everything prophesied in the Old Testament regarding Him, but that everything prophesied in the Old Testament regarding Him must be fulfilled. For Jesus did not fulfill, for example, Zechariah 14 at His first coming. But because it must be fulfilled, He will fulfill it at His future, Second Coming, along with all of the other Old Testament prophecies which He did not fulfill at His first coming (e.g. Micah 4:1-4, Isaiah 19:18-25).

So Acts 13:29 must refer only to all that was written in the Old Testament regarding Jesus Christ's suffering and dying for our sins (e.g. Isaiah 53, Psalms 22). Indeed, Acts 13:29 was even before Jesus had resurrected on the third day after His death, which resurrection was also written of Him in the Old Testament (e.g. Acts 26:22-23, Psalms 16:10, Hosea 6:2).

 

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jgr said in post #50:

It denies the testacy of God's New Will and Testament, written in the Blood of Jesus Christ His Son, the Divine Testator, simultaneously fulfilling and revoking the Old Will and Testament; because it does not believe that Christ infuses, and is the complete fulfillment of, every divine covenant found within its pages. (Hebrews 9:15-17)

Note that Christian Futurism per se does not deny any of those things.

For on Jesus Christ's Cross, for both Jews and Gentiles (John 11:51-52) of all times, the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law was completely and forever abolished (Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18), disannulled (Hebrews 7:18), rendered obsolete (Hebrews 8:13, Galatians 3:2-25, Galatians 4:21 to 5:8), taken away and replaced (Hebrews 10:9) by the better hope (Hebrews 7:19), the better covenant (Hebrews 7:22, Hebrews 8:6-12), the second covenant (Hebrews 8:7, Hebrews 10:9), of Jesus' New Covenant law (Galatians 6:2, John 1:17, Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 12:24, Hebrews 9:15), so that the law was changed (Hebrews 7:12).

All Christians, whether Jews or Gentles, of all times, are delivered from the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law and should not keep it (Romans 7:6; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18, Galatians 2:11-21), or have any desire to keep it (Galatians 4:21 to 5:8, Galatians 3:2-25). Christians keep the spirit of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Romans 7:6) by loving others (Galatians 5:14, Romans 13:8-10), by doing to others as they would have others do to them (Matthew 7:12).

The New Covenant is a new law (Hebrews 7:12,18-19, Hebrews 10:1-23), consisting of Jesus Christ's New Covenant/New Testament commandments (John 14:15), such as those which He gave in the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5:19 to 7:29), and in the epistles of the apostle Paul (1 Corinthians 14:37). These commandments exceed in righteousness the abolished letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Matthew 5:20-48). So there is no reason for any Christian to ever want to go back under the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Galatians 3:2 to 5:26). It was just a temporary schoolmaster (Galatians 3:24-25), a temporary shadow (Colossians 2:16-17), which God set up because of sins long after He had set up the original promise of the Abrahamic Covenant, and long before He brought this promise to fulfillment in Jesus' New Covenant (Galatians 3:16-29, Matthew 26:28).

The letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law has been made obsolete by the New Covenant (Hebrews 8:13). For example, the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law required an Aaronic priesthood (Exodus 30:30), whereas the New Covenant replaced the Aaronic priesthood with the Melchisedechian priesthood (Hebrews 7:11-28). And the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law required animal sacrifices for sin (Leviticus 23:19), whereas the New Covenant replaced these with the one-time sacrifice of Jesus Christ Himself on the Cross (Hebrews 10).

The letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law is the Hagar to the New Covenant's Sarah (Galatians 4:21-25). So those people, whether Jews or Gentiles, who try to keep the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law are like Ishmael, Abraham's son by a bondmaid (Galatians 4:22), who was cast out (Galatians 4:30), while those people, whether Jews or Gentiles, who keep the New Covenant are like Isaac (Galatians 4:28), Abraham's son by a freewoman (Galatians 4:22,31), who became his heir (Galatians 4:30b).

The letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, including the letter of its Ten Commandments written and engraven in stones (2 Corinthians 3:7, Deuteronomy 4:13, Deuteronomy 27:8), was the ministration of death and condemnation (2 Corinthians 3:7,9). For example, see Leviticus 20:10, Exodus 31:14, and Numbers 15:32-36; and contrast these with the New Covenant's John 8:4-11 and Matthew 12:1-8.

The letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law has been completely and forever done away (2 Corinthians 3:11), abolished (2 Corinthians 3:13b). But it is still able to spiritually blind some people as with a veil from beholding Jesus Christ (2 Corinthians 3:14-16), while the New Covenant is the ministration of the Spirit and righteousness (2 Corinthians 3:6,8-9b), which remains (2 Corinthians 3:11b), and which permits Christians to remove the veil, and to behold Jesus (2 Corinthians 3:16-18, Mark 15:38, Hebrews 7:18-19, Ephesians 2:15-18, Colossians 2:14-17).

But a mistaken spirit of Pharisaism can still sometimes deceive even some Christians into thinking that they must keep the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law to be saved from hell (Acts 15:1,5), or to become perfect (Galatians 3:2 to 5:26). This is a false, cursed gospel (Galatians 1:6-9). For if any Christians are keeping any part of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law thinking that they must do so to be saved from hell, or to become perfect, then Jesus Christ will profit them nothing. They have fallen from grace (Galatians 5:2-8).

jgr said in post #50:

It detests Scripture's declarations that Christ is the sole and exclusive Heir of all things (Hebrews 1:1,2) , insisting that an unregenerate subset of humanity called Israel, which can no longer be genetically isolated because its DNA is present in every person on earth, can still lay illegal claim under the revoked and replaced old covenant to promises and bequests belonging to Christ alone.

You seem to be confusing Christian Futurism per se with Dispensationalism. They are not the same.

For Christian Futurism per se is correct, because the Tribulation and subsequent Second-Coming prophecies of Revelation chapters 6 to 19 and Matthew 24 have not yet been fulfilled, just as the prophecies of the subsequent Millennium (e.g. Revelation 20:4-6 and Zechariah 14) have not yet been fulfilled.

But Dispensationalism is mistaken because it sets up a mutual exclusiveness between the Church and Israel. This is mistaken because just as the Gentile Ruth (a genetic forbear of Israel's Messiah: Matthew 1:5-16, Luke 3:23-32) could say to the Israelite Naomi: "thy people shall be my people, and thy God my God" (Ruth 1:16), so Gentiles in the Church have been grafted into Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29).

That is, all Jews in the Church remain members of whichever tribe of Israel they were born into (Romans 11:1, Acts 4:36). And all Gentiles in the Church have been grafted by God into Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29), and so have been grafted by God into its various tribes (cf. Ezekiel 47:21-23). So the entire Church is the twelve tribes of Israel (Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10). This is necessary, for all those in the Church are saved only by the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28; 1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6, Hebrews 9:15), which God has made only with Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-34, John 4:22b). John 10:16 refers to the "other sheep" of Gentile Christians being brought into "this fold" of Israel, which is the "one fold" of the Church (1 Corinthians 12:13, Ephesians 4:4-6, Revelation 21:9,12). A Gentile Christian can pray and ask which tribe of Israel he has been grafted into by God, and he will receive an answer, if he asks in faith (cf. Matthew 21:22), without any wavering (cf. James 1:6-7).

Also, all those in the Church, whether Jews (Acts 22:3) or Gentiles (Romans 16:4b), have been made spiritually-circumcised Jews if they have undergone the spiritual circumcision of water-immersion (burial) baptism into Jesus Christ (Romans 2:29, Philippians 3:3, Colossians 2:11-13).

jgr said in post #50:

It ascribes the work of Christ in fulfilling the New Covenant in His Blood and offering Himself as the final perfect Sacrifice (Daniel 9:26,27), instead to a futurized antichrist conceived in apostasy and contrived to match the speculations of false dogma.

See post #44 above.

For a Bible verse can include two different meanings at the same time. For example the "son" in Hosea 11:1b referred to the nation of Old Covenant Israel (Exodus 4:22) and its Exodus from Egypt. Also, at the same time, the "son" in Hosea 11:1b foretold an event in the life of Jesus Christ at His first coming (Matthew 2:14-15,19-21).

 

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jgr said in post #50:

It rejects the vision and sacrifice of historical defenders of the faith within the true Christian Church for eighteen centuries, relegating their immeasurable contributions to the preservation of the faith to nothing more than a parenthesis.

Do you mean that we have to accept the Reformers' mistaken idea that the papacy was the Antichrist?

If so, note that the future Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast"), during his literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-18), will not support Catholicism in its past and current form, insofar as Catholicism affirms that Jesus is the Christ, while the Antichrist will deny that Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22). And Catholicism affirms that Jesus is the Son of God, while the Antichrist will deny that Jesus is the Son of God (1 John 2:22b). And Catholicism affirms that Christ is in the flesh, while the Antichrist (like the Gnostics) will deny that Christ is in the flesh (2 John 1:7). And Catholicism affirms that the God of the Bible (YHWH) is the true God, while the Antichrist (like the Gnostics) will utterly revile YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36). And Catholicism affirms that the only man who is God is Jesus Christ of Nazareth, while the Antichrist will say that he (the Antichrist) is God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). And Catholicism affirms that Lucifer (Satan) is evil, while the Antichrist will bring the world into the conscious and open worship of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9). So the future Antichrist's religion, during his literal 3.5-year worldwide reign, will not be Catholicism in its past and current form, but a blend of Gnosticism and Luciferianism, also called Satanism.

Nonetheless, before Lucifer gives the Antichrist power over all nations (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), the Antichrist, and the man who will be his False Prophet (Revelation 19:20), could at first pretend to support Catholicism (as well as Christianity generally, and also Islam), to start gaining a worldwide following.

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The beast who comes up out of the earth in Revelation 13:11-16 represents the individual man who will become the future Antichrist's False Prophet (Revelation 19:20, Revelation 16:13). He could be a secretly-apostate pope who at some point during his tenure will make a great push for peace and unity between Christianity and Islam. He could say something like: "Why do we fight each other? Are not we all the spiritual children of Abraham and of his God, the one God? Cannot we lay aside our foolish, man-made differences of theology, which have done us no good at all, but have only brought us hatred and violence, and unite into one religion of Abraham, one religion of peace, based on love for the one God and love for our fellow man? What is more important than this?"

He could be so skillful in elucidating what the moderate Muslims could call "the true, peaceful, loving nature of Islam", that he could be hailed by them worldwide as (in their words) "a Great Imam, come to rescue our beloved Islam from the bad reputation falsely given to it by the terrorists". In this way, a pope could come to hold high positions of power in two religions at the same time, which could be symbolized by the two horns of the False Prophet lamb (Revelation 13:11). This would be similar to how the seven horns of the true-Jesus lamb in Revelation 5:6 could represent the true Jesus holding seven positions of power at the same time (compare Jesus wearing many crowns at the same time in Revelation 19:12). The False Prophet could even say that he is Jesus returned (via "reincarnation"). But he will not that say he is Christ. For the False Prophet and the Antichrist will deny that Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22) and will deny that Christ is in the flesh (2 John 1:7).

Once the False Prophet by his amazing miracles has brought the world under his spell (Revelation 13:13-18, Revelation 19:20), including many Muslims and Christians who may not care much for scriptural dogma, but could go wild over his signs and wonders, he could begin to (in his words) "restore to the world the real message which was spoken by me (Jesus) at my first coming, and by the great prophet Mohammed, but which message became corrupted by power-hungry men when they copied and changed the early manuscripts of the Bible and the Koran". He could then gradually initiate the world into the Antichrist's Gnostic Luciferianism (1 John 4:3, Revelation 13:4-6), also called Satanism, a religion which could have existed since ancient times in some "mystery" cults, and which still exists today in the highest degree of initiation of a worldwide secret society. The False Prophet could present his miraculously calling fire down from heaven (Revelation 13:13) as purported proof that Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) and the Antichrist are the true God (Revelation 13:4-8, Revelation 12:9), in an inversion of how back in Old Testament times the prophet Elijah miraculously called fire down from heaven to prove that YHWH is the true God (1 Kings 18:37-39).

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If a secretly-apostate pope does become the future Antichrist's False Prophet (of Revelation 13:11-16, Revelation 19:20, and Revelation 16:13), then adherents of Catholicism will have to decide what their ultimate source of truth is: Is it the pope and the RCC, or God and the Bible? Many adherents of Catholicism who know God and the Bible well, and hold to them as their ultimate source of truth, will no doubt be utterly aghast at the false doctrines of a False Prophet pope. Such adherents of Catholicism could demand that he be removed for heresy, and apostasy, and that the cardinals elect a new pope. But other adherents of Catholicism, including many cardinals, bishops, and priests, could be deceived (along with most of the rest of the world) into believing the False Prophet pope's false doctrines, because of his ability to perform the most amazing miracles (Revelation 13:13-14, Revelation 19:20; cf. Matthew 24:24).

And so a great schism could arise within the RCC. Compare the Akita prophecy: "The work of the devil will infiltrate even into the Church in such a way that one will see cardinals opposing cardinals, bishops against bishops". Many adherents of Catholicism could follow the False Prophet pope, while other adherents of Catholicism could reject him, and elect their own, new pope (or reinstate a former pope who is still alive), whom they could declare to be the "True Pope". But this new (or reinstated) "True Pope" could then be murdered, along with many of his followers, by the False Prophet pope's soldiers. Compare the Third Secret of Fatima: "he [the pope] was killed by a group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows at him, and in the same way there died one after another the other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious, and various lay people of different ranks and positions". Could the soldiers firing "arrows" be the Vatican's Swiss Guards, whose weapons and colorful uniforms hark back to the Middle Ages?

After this slaughter, the False Prophet pope could manage to retain the papacy, and full control of the Vatican, and through his (deceived) cardinals, bishops, and priests, retain full control of all RCC cathedrals, parishes, churches, etc., throughout the world. And when the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") obtains power over all nations, he and the False Prophet will make war against true, Biblical Christians (whether they are adherents of Catholicism or not) throughout the world, and will physically overcome them and kill them (by beheading) in every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

It is only when the Antichrist has completely broken the physical power of the true Church (which consists of all true Christians, whether they are adherents of Catholicism or not: Ephesians 4:4-6) that the future Tribulation will end (Daniel 12:7b), and Jesus Christ's Second Coming will immediately occur, at which time He will physically resurrect and rapture (gather together) the Church (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6), of all times. And at His Second Coming, Jesus Christ will tread the winepress of God's wrath alone (Isaiah 63:3, Revelation 19:15-21), and so He/God will get all of the glory for defeating the power of evil on the earth (Deuteronomy 32:39-43). For He/God will not share this glory with the Church (cf. Isaiah 42:8-14, Isaiah 26:18).

 

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jgr said in post #50:

It eschews the study and effort necessary to identify and recognize historical prophetic fulfillments and the deeper meanings of spiritual symbols, choosing instead to substitute the indolence of carnalized literalized pharisaic expectation and arbitrary subjective private interpretation.

Note that the book of Revelation is almost entirely literal, for it is unsealed (Revelation 22:10), meaning that it should not be difficult for Christians of any time to understand it if they simply read it as it is written: chronologically, and almost-entirely literally. The few parts of it which are symbolic are almost always explained afterward (e.g. Revelation 1:20, Revelation 17:9-12). And Revelation's few symbols not explained afterward (e.g. Revelation 13:2) are usually explained elsewhere in the Bible (e.g. Daniel 7:4-7,17).

Just as Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming in Revelation 19:7 to 20:3 will be fulfilled almost entirely literally, so the events of the just-preceding Tribulation in Revelation chapters 6 to 18 will be fulfilled almost entirely literally. Also, the Millennium in Revelation 20:4-6 will be literal, and will begin right after Jesus' Second Coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Zechariah 14:3-21), when He will reign on the earth with the physically resurrected Church for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 66:3-4, Psalms 72:8-11). After that, the events of Revelation 20:7 to 22:5 will occur literally.

jgr said in post #50:

It dangles the prospect of a premature exit from the tribulations of earth which Scripture enjoins us to expect and embrace, denigrating the sacrifice of saints through the ages who have experienced and persevered through fiery trial to preserve and relay the true faith throughout its generations.

Again, you seem to be confusing Christian Futurism per se with Dispensationalism. They are not the same.

Dispensationalism is mistaken because it teaches a pre-tribulation rapture, while the Bible shows that Jesus Christ will not come and gather together (rapture) the Church until immediately after the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:29-31, Mark 13:24-27; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8). That is why the marriage of the Church does not happen until Revelation 19:7, in connection with Jesus' Second Coming and the physical resurrection of the Church at that time (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16). Matthew 24:30-31 refers to the same Second Coming of Jesus and gathering together (rapture) of the Church as 2 Thessalonians 2:1, which refers to the same Second Coming of Jesus and catching up together (rapture) of the Church as 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17.

Jesus Christ will not return and gather together (rapture) the Church until sometime after there is a falling away (an apostasy) in the Church, and the future Antichrist sits (at least one time) in a third Jewish temple building in Jerusalem and proclaims himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:1-4, Daniel 11:31,36, Revelation 11:1-2, Revelation 13:4-8), and the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) is set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the third Jewish temple (Matthew 24:15-31, Daniel 11:31). For when Jesus returns to gather together (and marry) the Church, He will destroy the Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2:1,8, Revelation 19:7,20). Before Jesus returns, the Church will have to go through the future, literal 3.5 years of the Antichrist's worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-31).

At Jesus Christ's Second Coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15; 2 Thessalonians 2:1, Matthew 24:30), the Church will be physically resurrected and caught up together/gathered together (raptured) (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; 2 Thessalonians 2:1, Matthew 24:31), not to remove the Church from the earth (Proverbs 10:30, John 17:15,20), but to take the Church only as high as the clouds of the sky to hold a meeting in the air with the returned Jesus (1 Thessalonians 4:17).

At that meeting, Jesus Christ will judge everyone in the Church (Psalms 50:3-5, cf. Mark 13:27) by their works (2 Corinthians 5:10, Romans 2:6-8, Luke 12:45-48, Matthew 25:19-30). And then Jesus will marry in the clouds the obedient part of the Church (Revelation 19:7-8, Matthew 25:1-12), those in the Church (of all times) who "overcame" to the end (Revelation 3:5, Revelation 2:26). They will then mount white horses and come back down from the sky (the first heaven) with Jesus (Revelation 19:14), as He defeats the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") and the world's armies (Revelation 19:15-21). Jesus will then make the marriage supper of Revelation 19:9 for the physically-resurrected and married obedient part of the Church in the earthly Jerusalem (Isaiah 25:6-9; 1 Corinthians 15:54). Jesus and the obedient part of the Church will then physically reign on the earth for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29).

jgr said in post #50:

But it still calls itself “Christian”.

Note that Christian Futurism per se is indeed Christian. For it is based on the Bible, and contradicts nothing within it.

 

[Bible2+]

TribulationSigns said in post #1537 of the original thread:

Christ warned us in Matthew Chapter 24 that when we see Satan or abomination of desolation residing within the church (the holy place side of the Cross), then we who are in SPIRITUAL Judaea (a term for the corporate church) are to depart out of the apostate church and flee to the mountains of God, or in other words we are to depart and flee to the Kingdom (mountains) of Christ where the Truth can be found.

Regarding the "abomination of desolation", Daniel 11:31 was typically fulfilled by the abomination of desolation in 1 Maccabees 1:54, which occurred in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the second Jewish temple in Jerusalem in the time of Antiochus IV Epiphanes. But per Jesus Christ's statement in Matthew 24:15, the Church will see the abomination of desolation in Daniel 11:31 fulfilled (antitypically) in the future when the Church will see the abomination of desolation stand in the holy place (of a future, third Jewish temple in Jerusalem). This future abomination of desolation could be a standing, android image of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:15) which his followers ("they") will put in the holy place of the temple (Daniel 11:31) to be worshipped (Revelation 13:15), after they have stopped the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices which the ultra-Orthodox Jews will have restarted in front of the temple (Daniel 11:31). This image will pollute the holy place of the temple (Daniel 11:31).

The Antichrist will then fulfill Daniel 11:36 and 2 Thessalonians 2:4 by sitting himself (at least one time) in the temple and proclaiming himself God. By the power of Satan (the dragon, Revelation 12:9), the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") will then rule and be worshipped by all of the nations of the earth for 3.5 literal years (Revelation 13:4-18), and will physically overcome Biblical Christians (not in hiding) in every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

Also, from the day on which (antitypically) "the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be 1,290 days. Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the 1,335 days" (Daniel 12:11-12, Revelation 16:15). Also, because the future Antichrist will fulfill Daniel 11:31 antitypically (Matthew 24:15), and will fulfill Daniel 11:36 for the first and only time (2 Thessalonians 2:4), he will also fulfill all of Daniel 11:21-45 (the first part antitypically, and the rest for the first and only time) when he arises on the world stage. For that passage refers to the career of the same man. And since the Antichrist will fulfill all of Daniel 11:21-45 when he arises on the world stage, then just preceding his arising on the world stage, Daniel 11:13-19 could be fulfilled antitypically by a future, Iraqi Baathist General (the Antichrist's precursor) who will defeat and occupy Israel and Egypt with a huge Iraqi Army (Daniel 11:15-17; in verse 17 the original Hebrew word translated as "daughter" is "bath").

(See post #4 of this thread)

TribulationSigns said in post #1537 of the original thread:

Christ warned us in Matthew Chapter 24 that when we see Satan or abomination of desolation residing within the church (the holy place side of the Cross), then we who are in SPIRITUAL Judaea (a term for the corporate church) are to depart out of the apostate church and flee to the mountains of God, or in other words we are to depart and flee to the Kingdom (mountains) of Christ where the Truth can be found.

Regarding "Judaea" (Matthew 24:16), note that there are many churches in Judaea (southern Israel) still today, just as the Church began and has always been in Judaea: "Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea" (Acts 9:31); "the churches of Judaea" (Galatians 1:22); "the churches... in Judaea" (1 Thessalonians 2:14). Matthew 24:16 refers to those in the Church, whether Gentiles or Jews, who will be living in Judaea at the future point in time when the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the future Antichrist) is set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of a future, third Jewish temple in Jerusalem (Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31).

The future Antichrist's persecution of the Church could begin in Jerusalem and Judaea right after the abomination of desolation is set up and the Antichrist sits in the future temple (at least one time) and proclaims himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). So to avoid this persecution (cf. Matthew 10:23a), those in the Church living in Judaea should flee immediately after they see the abomination of desolation set up (Matthew 24:15-16), which event could occur at the midpoint of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, and which event could mark the start of the Antichrist's literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18). Eventually, the Antichrist's persecution of the Church (not in hiding) will reach every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13). So the basic principle of Matthew 24:16 of fleeing (the Antichrist's persecution) would apply to Christians around the world.

Just as the woman in Revelation 12:6 represents different people in the Church around the world, so the protected wilderness place she flees to represents different, divinely-protected wilderness places around the world. When those in the Church living in Judaea see the abomination of desolation set up (Matthew 24:15), they should flee to places in the wilderness east of Judaea, in the mountains (Matthew 24:16) of Jordan. And those in the Church who will be living in places other than Judaea should flee to other wilderness places, mountainous places (Ezekiel 7:16), in the regions of the world where they live.

And they should have prepared beforehand hideouts in these wilderness/mountain places, hideouts already fully stocked with all of the emergency supplies of canned food, bottled water, warm clothing and bedding, etc., that they and their families and fellow Christians will need to survive (cf. 1 Timothy 5:8, Matthew 24:45-46, cf. Genesis 41:48,36, Genesis 45:7) until Jesus Christ returns, possibly on the 1,335th day after the abomination of desolation is set up (Daniel 12:11-12, Revelation 16:15). For they should not carry any supplies with them when they flee (Matthew 24:17-18). They should flee as unhindered and quickly as possible, knowing that when the abomination of desolation is set up, that could signal the beginning of the future Antichrist's literal 3.5-year Luciferian/Satanic worldwide reign of terror (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), when he will be given power to make war against all Biblical Christians that he can get his hands on, and to physically overcome them and kill them (by beheading) in every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

 

[jgr]

2 Corinthians 1:20
For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

Futurism begins on track:

Christ Himself is the full and complete fulfillment of all of the promises of God

And then immediately derails itself:

regarding our salvation (John 14:6).

One can almost hear the Apostle Paul:
“What?? Where in 2 Corinthians 1:20 do you see all of the promises of God confined and restricted solely to our salvation? Notice that the words “all promises” are plural”.

Paul uses Christ's fulfillment of the Abrahamic promises as one example of “all of the promises of God”:

Galatians 3:16
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

And Jesus Himself:

John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Does Jesus confine and restrict His promises to us solely to salvation?
Hint: No hint necessary

And further:

2 Peter 1:4
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Note the magnitude and number of the promises: Exceeding great and precious; and more than one.

Here are some of them:

Galatians 3:14
That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Galatians 3:22
But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Galatians 3:29
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Galatians 4:28
Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

Ephesians 1:13
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise.

Titus 1:2
In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began.


Avoid the futurism train, and avoid derailment, and instead experience all the promises of God in Christ Jesus.

 

[keras]

Avoid the futurism train, and avoid derailment, and instead experience all the promises of God in Christ Jesus.

We DO have a future; there will be another day tomorrow.
We Christians have the honor of possessing the Bible, a Book basically Written by our Creator God.
In that Book, we are told how we should live and the Laws to live by. But quite a lot of scripture is devoted to prophecy, some fulfilled, most awaiting fulfilment.
God does want us to know His plans and the thinking its all over now, is a bad mistake, which leaves one in the dark about what will happen. 1 Thessalonians 5:4

 

[jgr]

We DO have a future; there will be another day tomorrow.
We Christians have the honor of possessing the Bible, a Book basically Written by our Creator God.
In that Book, we are told how we should live and the Laws to live by. But quite a lot of scripture is devoted to prophecy, some fulfilled, most awaiting fulfilment.
God does want us to know His plans and the thinking its all over now, is a bad mistake, which leaves one in the dark about what will happen. 1 Thessalonians 5:4

In every instance in Scripture, both OT and NT, which refers to "God's Promises" or "the Promises of God", they are Promises of Divine Blessing and Benefit, which are all ultimately fulfilled in Christ.

That is why Paul could declare with complete confidence:

2 Corinthians 1:20
For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

 

[keras]

In every instance in Scripture, both OT and NT, which refers to "God's Promises" or "the Promises of God", they are Promises of Divine Blessing and Benefit, which are all ultimately fulfilled in Christ.

That is why Paul could declare with complete confidence:

2 Corinthians 1:20
For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

Sure; ultimately!
Most await future fulfilment, now- before the Return, then the Millennium, at the end of, when Jesus will hand the Kingdom back to God. 1 Corinthians 15:24

 

[Bible2+]

jgr said in post #56:

Avoid the futurism train, and avoid derailment, and instead experience all the promises of God in Christ Jesus.

What promises are you claiming that Christian Futurists do not experience?

Also, how are those promises not regarding salvation?