Do Modern Christians undervalue Christian History?

Not David

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I was asked a friend if she knew about the Council of Nicea and the Nicene Creed and she had no idea what was that about. Have churches underestimated the Church Fathers and important events in Christianity?
 

Quid est Veritas?

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I love history, and feel it is routinely undervalued and underutilised. We have a 'cult of modernity' or tendency to stress what is more recent, that is very stultifying. A lot of so-called modern thought is merely the rehashed arguments of the ancients. The Greco-Roman philosophies had almost 1000 years where iterations of almost every idea extent today was proposed.

With Christian doctrine, this is even more so: If people come with New Agey transcendant Cosmic Christs and such stuff, just read what the Church Fathers said against Gnosticism. If Buddhist teachings, Augustine spoke against Gymnosophists of India and a lot that was said on Stoicism is relevant here. If Materialism and Atheism, the ancient arguments against Epicurianism is there to be explored and utilised. The list goes on.

The things modern heretics or opponents of Christianity are saying, aren't new. The claptrap of Jesus being a 'great teacher but not God' was already said by Porphyry centuries ago. Celsus wrote on the impossibility of the Virgin Birth. The JW are basically Arians. People aren't original, and their arguments for Atheism or against Christianity is no stronger today than in Roman times.
There is a rich treasure trove of wise and educated Christians that already considered and rejected these arguments. For some reason we ignore it, because we think the moderns know more for some reason? It is all very silly. As CS Lewis said, one must read two old books for every new one, for we seldom see our errors while making them. Only with the fresh breeze of history, do we notice their mistakes and by juxtaposition realise we may be wrong ourselves. Great thinkers laboured over Christian thought for millenia, and it is utter hubris not to stand on the shoulders of these giants.
 
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Dirk1540

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I love history, and feel it is routinely undervalued and underutilised. We have a 'cult of modernity' or tendency to stress what is more recent, that is very stultifying. A lot of so-called modern thought is merely the rehashed arguments of the ancients. The Greco-Roman philosophies had almost 1000 years where iterations of almost every idea extent today was proposed.

With Christian doctrine, this is even more so: If people come with New Agey transcendant Cosmic Christs and such stuff, just read what the Church Fathers said against Gnosticism. If Buddhist teachings, Augustine spoke against Gymnosophists of India and a lot that was said on Stoicism is relevant here. If Materialism and Atheism, the ancient arguments against Epicurianism is there to be explored and utilised. The list goes on.

The things modern heretics or opponents of Christianity are saying, aren't new. The claptrap of Jesus being a 'great teacher but not God' was already said by Porphyry centuries ago. Celsus wrote on the impossibility of the Virgin Birth. The JW are basically Arians. People aren't original, and their arguments for Atheism or against Christianity is no stronger today than in Roman times.
There is a rich treasure trove of wise and educated Christians that already considered and rejected these arguments. For some reason we ignore it, because we think the moderns know more for some reason? It is all very silly. As CS Lewis said, one must read two old books for every new one, for we seldom see our errors while making them. Only with the fresh breeze of history, do we notice their mistakes and by juxtaposition realise we may be wrong ourselves. Great thinkers laboured over Christian thought for millenia, and it is utter hubris not to stand on the shoulders of these giants.
I was listening to a Michael Heiser podcast the other day (Unseen Realm) and he had a really interesting explanation about how extreme paranoia about ANE 'Borrowed Beliefs' was a result of historical ignorance (understanding the context of other nations so that you can tell how Israel was both similar and distinct). His point was that it actually turned a positive thing (historical knowledge of comparative religion) into a negative 'Scary' thing (oh no!! The Bible just copied off of everyone else!!)
 
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bcbsr

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I was asked a friend if she knew about the Council of Nicea and the Nicene Creed and she had no idea what was that about. Have churches underestimated the Church Fathers and important events in Christianity?
What should it really matter what the "Council of Nicea" or any other council or post-Biblical theologians said? Yes, there's been a great deal of deviation from Biblical Christianity due to such religious celebrities. More to the point is whether such people and councils should be reckoned infallible and not allowed to be subject to scrutiny in light of scripture.

Many of us simply don't go along with the post-Biblical Magisterial concept, replacing the scriptures with the ponderings of a religious elite class.
 
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Quid est Veritas?

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I was listening to a Michael Heiser podcast the other day (Unseen Realm) and he had a really interesting explanation about how extreme paranoia about ANE 'Borrowed Beliefs' was a result of historical ignorance (understanding the context of other nations so that you can tell how Israel was both similar and distinct). His point was that it actually turned a positive thing (historical knowledge of comparative religion) into a negative 'Scary' thing (oh no!! The Bible just copied off of everyone else!!)
That is very true. I always say that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but a lot usually isn't. If you consider the Semitic context or broader cultural mileau, then such similarities are expected and it would be odd for them not to be there. It is the same with Rank-Raglin categories used against Jesus, or juxtapositions between Jesus and other mythic archetypes - these are actually in favour of Jesus, if you really think about it. People are silly.
 
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Dirk1540

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That is very true. I always say that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but a lot usually isn't. If you consider the Semitic context or broader cultural mileau, then such similarities are expected and it would be odd for them not to be there. It is the same with Rank-Raglin categories used against Jesus, or juxtapositions between Jesus and other mythic archetypes - these are actually in favour of Jesus, if you really think about it. People are silly.
He was also talking in detail about how they sort of 'Imitate their beliefs on purpose' to lead neighboring religions to a MORE PROPER conclusion. So they might actually lay the comparisons on thick on purpose, they will parallel a Baal story then they will steer a few crucial conclusions to the left instead of the right...which teaches new principles that point to a truths about YHWH as opposed to the false conclusion of Baal beliefs.
 
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Albion

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I was asked a friend if she knew about the Council of Nicea and the Nicene Creed and she had no idea what was that about. Have churches underestimated the Church Fathers and important events in Christianity?

Some have. Many others have not.
 
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HTacianas

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I was asked a friend if she knew about the Council of Nicea and the Nicene Creed and she had no idea what was that about. Have churches underestimated the Church Fathers and important events in Christianity?

Modern protestants, in their distancing themselves from the Roman Church, have divorced themselves from the history of christianity. The ecumenical councils acted with the full authority given to the apostles by Christ. In separating themselves from the church and those councils they have split themselves into thousands of "denominations", each at odds with the other, mainly over issues resolved within the church long ago.
 
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What should it really matter what the "Council of Nicea" or any other council or post-Biblical theologians said? Yes, there's been a great deal of deviation from Biblical Christianity due to such religious celebrities. More to the point is whether such people and councils should be reckoned infallible and not allowed to be subject to scrutiny in light of scripture.

Many of us simply don't go along with the post-Biblical Magisterial concept, replacing the scriptures with the ponderings of a religious elite class.
Because of those post Biblical councils we have the full Bible.
 
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Albion

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I notice, however, that you used the Council of Nicaea as your example earlier, but the councils that canonized the Bible were not among the Ecumenical Councils that have such prominence in church history. As a result, I doubt that one church member in a hundred--in one of the churches that IS big on church history and tradition--can name the councils that codified Scripture, and I cannot remember ever hearing a sermon about them.
 
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I notice, however, that you used the Council of Nicaea as your example earlier, but the councils that canonized the Bible were not among the Ecumenical Councils that have such prominence in church history. As a result, I doubt that one church member in a hundred--in one of the churches that IS big on church history and tradition--can name the councils that codified Scripture, and I cannot remember ever hearing a sermon about them.
I know, I was giving an example of the importance of those meetings.
 
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Being largely ignorant of Christian history, I'm sure I am missing some valuable and helpful things. However, the the time I didn't spend learning history I have spent focusing on Jesus himself. I don't regret that at all.
 
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Many people including myself get their faith from the Bible, it's where we learn about Jesus and God along with everyone and everything else. Let's remember that the Bible alone is full of information we're trying to learn and practice. So considering time and mental constraints it's not much a matter of value. It's much simpler and easier to have faith in Jesus keeping him in mind.
 
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They did not write the scriptures. At best they can be reckoned publishers, like the scribes of Jesus' day. The scriptures existed prior to them.
Yeah, and you trust the Church to make the right decision in selecting those books. You know that the Epistle to Hebrews is anonymous? How do you know that one is inspired by God? Does the Bible have an inspired table of contents?
 
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Being largely ignorant of Christian history, I'm sure I am missing some valuable and helpful things. However, the the time I didn't spend learning history I have spent focusing on Jesus himself. I don't regret that at all.
Most people who think they're just reading the Bible actually understand it in light of their tradition. This is true even of people who think they don't have traditions, because they actually do. One advantage of history is that it helps you understand where your tradition came from and see alternatives.
 
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timtams

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Yeah, and you trust the Church to make the right decision in selecting those books. You know that the Epistle to Hebrews is anonymous? How do you know that one is inspired by God? Does the Bible have an inspired table of contents?
And how do you know which church is inspired by God? Does the true church come with an inspired imprimatur? Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Coptic, Syrian, how would one know which one is true? Your post implies that we don't really have to think about it, just accept God's authority, but how do you decide which church has preserved the faith?
 
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bcbsr

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Yeah, and you trust the Church to make the right decision in selecting those books. You know that the Epistle to Hebrews is anonymous? How do you know that one is inspired by God? Does the Bible have an inspired table of contents?
From the content which I've analyzed I've concluded that Hebrews was written by Paul. The historic record of Jesus and his apostles, along with the writings of the apostles, these I reckon scripture. Doesn't take a council of religious celebrities to figure that out.
 
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