is Jesus still flesh?

RDKirk

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner
Supporter
Mar 3, 2013
39,119
20,158
US
✟1,440,434.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
How will every eye across the globe see that? Only the Apostles in the exact vicinity were able to see Him ascend, so, how will a person on the ground, in a forest In Japan, for example, be able to witness with his eyes His physical physical feet touch down upon the mount of Olives in Jerusalem?

I remember seeing an astronaut's foot touch the surface of the moon.

Mirrors. Television. God doing woo-woo things with light.
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
1 John 3:2
Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.
John, an eyewitness to the resurrected flesh body of Jesus, here testifies infallibly that it had not been revealed to him what Jesus presently, in Heaven, looks like. This indicates plainly that some sort of appreciable change to His physical appearance happened at or after the ascension, otherwise, John would not have said so.

The context is behavior. For everyone who has this hope purifies himself. So I believe 1 John 3:2 is talking about how we will see Jesus as He is in the way that He acts, speaks, and behaves. For we will be like Him in the sense that our attitude will be similar (i.e. Holy).

You said:
Later, John was brought to heaven and witnessed Jesus Looking like this:

Revelation 5:6
And I looked, and behold, in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as though it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent out into all the earth.

So here again we have the apostle infallibly testifying that, In heaven, Jesus has taken the non-human form of a Lamb with 7 horns and 7 eyes.... Unquestionably different physical features than he had when He ascended.

I believe this is a symbolic representation of Jesus and it is not a picture of what He is actually looking like in Heaven.
 
Upvote 0

RDKirk

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner
Supporter
Mar 3, 2013
39,119
20,158
US
✟1,440,434.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Matthew 18:20

For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them.

If He is currently in the flesh, does that mean every time two or three are gathered in His name, He appears in the flesh in their midst??

First, while I believe Jesus, God Incarnate, is still incarnate, being in Heaven would put Him into direct and continuous contact with the Father and the Holy Spirit--directly "jacked in" you might say, and sharing certain of Their characteristics.

Thus, to continue the analogy, He is "virtually" with each of us within the Holy Spirit while physically being in Heaven, as He is also within the Father.
 
Upvote 0

parousia70

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow
Supporter
Feb 24, 2002
15,533
4,826
57
Oregon
✟793,718.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Then we have the accounts of the Transfiguration:

Matthew 17:1-2 Now after six days Jesus took Peter, James, and John his brother, led them up on a high mountain by themselves; 2 and He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light.

All agree this was a prefiguration of Jesus' Glorified form, yet it is wholly different from ANY eyewitness account of His post-crucifixion, pre-ascension resurrected Body.

It had yet to undergo "some" appreciable change prior to the ascension, that the Transfiguration pre figured.
 
Upvote 0

justbyfaith

justified sinner
May 19, 2017
3,461
572
51
Southern California
✟3,094.00
Country
United States
Faith
Calvary Chapel
Marital Status
Married
Matthew 18:20

For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them.

If He is currently in the flesh, does that mean every time two or three are gathered in His name, He appears in the flesh in their midst??
He rose to fill all things (Ephesians 4:10) and yet He is confined to a finite human body (1 John 4:1-3). This tells me that He is Omnipresent in the form of His Spirit; but as the second Person of the Trinity He is there only in the flesh.
 
Upvote 0

parousia70

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow
Supporter
Feb 24, 2002
15,533
4,826
57
Oregon
✟793,718.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
The context is behavior. For everyone who has this hope purifies himself. So I believe 1 John 3:2 is talking about how we will see Jesus as He is in the way that He acts, speaks, and behaves. For we will be like Him in the sense that our attitude will be similar (i.e. Holy).

So you believe the phrase "we shall see Him as He is" has no visual or optical component?

Or is it that He underwent some sort of "attitude adjustment" at the ascension and upon the return will act and behave in a way completely foreign and unknown to the Apostles who witnessed His resurrected Body?
 
Upvote 0

RDKirk

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner
Supporter
Mar 3, 2013
39,119
20,158
US
✟1,440,434.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The context is behavior. For everyone who has this hope purifies himself. So I believe 1 John 3:2 is talking about how we will see Jesus as He is in the way that He acts, speaks, and behaves. For we will be like Him in the sense that our attitude will be similar (i.e. Holy).



I believe this is a symbolic representation of Jesus and it is not a picture of what He is actually looking like in Heaven.

Paul makes too clear a point that our own hope of material resurrection hangs on being of the same kind as Jesus' resurrection. His material resurrection is proof of our material resurrection.

Remember that Paul's audience already believed in an afterlife--but as disembodied spirits wandering Hades, not a resurrection to a meaningful and satisfying material life. Paul had to make it clear that he was talking about a material resurrection, not existing--as they already believed--in Hades as ghosts. Jesus' material resurrection was the basis of that hope.
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Paul makes too clear a point that our own hope of material resurrection hangs on being of the same kind as Jesus' resurrection. His material resurrection is proof of our material resurrection.

Remember that Paul's audience already believed in an afterlife--but as disembodied spirits wandering Hades, not a resurrection to a meaningful and satisfying material life. Paul had to make it clear that he was talking about a material resurrection, not existing--as they already believed--in Hades as ghosts. Jesus' material resurrection was the basis of that hope.

Yes, I believe we will have one day a physical flesh and blood body that Jesus has (and not an altered new glorified body). We have to have the same flesh Jesus had in order to be resurrected. In a way, we will be Jews because Jesus is a Jew and we will be resurrected after His likeness (or DNA).

But I believe we will first receive a spiritual immortal body in the Pre-Trib Rapture that is of the nature of angels. After that, then comes the physical flesh and blood bodily resurrection after the Millennium.

Side Note:

Those who missed on the Rapture and who will be martyred for their faith will go through the Millennium. So they will only have a physical flesh and blood bodily resurrection so as to go through the Millennium (or the 1,000 year reign of Christ).
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
So you believe the phrase "we shall see Him as He is" has no visual or optical component?

It is a visual or optical component because we will see Him as He is in the way that He behaves, speaks, etc. In other words, we will see how loving Christ will be in person. We will visually witness Christ being loving in Heaven. For behavior is the context being spoken of here. In 2 Corinthians 5:16, Paul says we will no longer regard Christ after the flesh.

The problem that you run into is that the text says, "we shall be like Him."
This means in the Rapture (according to your view), we would have to take on a physical body like Him. But that is not possible because the rest of the dead (us) will not live again until the thousand years is finished.

You said:
Or is it that He underwent some sort of "attitude adjustment" at the ascension and upon the return will act and behave in a way completely foreign and unknown to the Apostles who witnessed His resurrected Body?

I believe in a:

1. A New Spiritual Body Type Resurrection
(with us taking on the body of angels). For Jesus says we will be as the angels of God in heaven and will not be given into marriage there. In John chapter 1, it says we are given power to become sons of God. Sons of God is a reference to angels in the Old Testament.

2. A New Physical Flesh and Blood Resurrection
(after the likeness of Jesus's body that He had during His ministry)
After the 1,000 year reign of Christ is over, those Christians who are Raptured will then receive their new physical flesh and blood bodies and live and reign with Christ for all eternity in New Jerusalem on the New Earth.

Side Note:

Those who missed on the Rapture and who will be martyred for their faith will go through the Millennium. So they will only have a physical flesh and blood bodily resurrection so as to go through the Millennium (or the 1,000 year reign of Christ).
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
He that is last is first, and he that is first is last (Matthew 20:16).
In other words, those who are first in the fact that they are taken up in the Pre-Trib Rapture will be resurrected bodily last at the end of the Millennium; And those who are last (Those believers at the end of the Tribulation and are martyred) are resurrected bodily first to go through the Millennium.

Yet, everyone gets the same gift (reward) of receiving a new physical flesh and blood body so as to reign with Christ for eternity.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

parousia70

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow
Supporter
Feb 24, 2002
15,533
4,826
57
Oregon
✟793,718.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
In Acts 9:3-4, we have this account: “As he journeyed he came near Damascus, and suddenly a light shone around him from heaven. Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, ‘Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?’” This was definitely Jesus.

In v. 17, we are told that this was “…the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you came…” Here was a post-ascension appearance by Jesus in which there is no mention of a “bodily” appearance. The only physical manifestations mentioned were a bright “light from heaven” and a voice. Remember that those who were with him were not blinded and it is said they witnessed the appearance of Christ as a “light” (Acts 22:9).

If Jesus had a physical, corporeal body which He will inhabit when He comes a second time, why did He not reveal Himself with this to Paul on the road to Damascus? Was He saving His physical body for later? Or, could it be that His physical body had been changed into its glorious essence by this time?


Then we have the clincher:

2 Corinthians 5:16
16 Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh,yet now we know Him thus no longer.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

parousia70

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow
Supporter
Feb 24, 2002
15,533
4,826
57
Oregon
✟793,718.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I remember seeing an astronaut's foot touch the surface of the moon.

You were clearly fortunate enough to be among the Minority of Human beings on earth who had access to a television at that time.

Mirrors. Television. God doing woo-woo things with light.

Which still does not answer for "every eye shall see".
 
Upvote 0

Ken Rank

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jan 12, 2014
7,218
5,560
Winchester, KENtucky
✟308,895.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Yes. He is flesh. When he appear to his disciples he allow them to touch him and he was flesh. Until now 2000 years nothing changed.
So he ascended to heaven, the spiritual realm, took a seat on the right hand of the Father (a Spirit) and yet is still in the flesh?

I rather think he can take physical form when he needs to, or can exist in the spiritual realm. If you are one who believes that we die and go to heaven, then you must also think the dead are still in the flesh as well?
 
  • Like
Reactions: parousia70
Upvote 0

parousia70

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow
Supporter
Feb 24, 2002
15,533
4,826
57
Oregon
✟793,718.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Side Note:
Those who missed on the Rapture and who will be martyred for their faith will go through the Millennium. So they will only have a physical flesh and blood bodily resurrection so as to go through the Millennium (or the 1,000 year reign of Christ).


Interesting... so you believe these people will be raised from the dead back into a mortal flesh and blood body exactly like before they died? One that can die physically again? Not unlike Lazarus?
 
Upvote 0

RDKirk

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner
Supporter
Mar 3, 2013
39,119
20,158
US
✟1,440,434.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
In Acts 9:3-4, we have this account: “As he journeyed he came near Damascus, and suddenly a light shone around him from heaven. Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, ‘Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?’” This was definitely Jesus.

In v. 17, we are told that this was “…the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you came…” Here was a post-ascension appearance by Jesus in which there is no mention of a “bodily” appearance. The only physical manifestations mentioned were a bright “light from heaven” and a voice. Remember that those who were with him were not blinded and it is said they witnessed the appearance of Christ as a “light” (Acts 22:9).

If Jesus had a physical, corporeal body which He will inhabit when He comes a second time, why did He not reveal Himself with this to Paul on the road to Damascus? Was He saving His physical body for later? Or, could it be that His physical body had been changed into its glorious essence by this time?


Then we have the clincher:

2 Corinthians 5:16
16 Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh,yet now we know Him thus no longer.

Paul does not assert that his seeing Jesus was necessarily in the flesh.

He does assert, however, that Jesus was resurrected in the flesh, and that we will be resurrected in the same kind of flesh.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

RDKirk

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner
Supporter
Mar 3, 2013
39,119
20,158
US
✟1,440,434.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
So he ascended to heaven, the spiritual realm, took a seat on the right hand of the Father (a Spirit) and yet is still in the flesh?

Why are you talking about "taking a seat" if you don't think He's in the flesh?
 
Upvote 0