Bible Typo??

timewerx

the village i--o--t--
Aug 31, 2012
15,266
5,899
✟299,269.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Single
God can use Satan to do his will , like he used him to make Christ crucified by letting him enter Judas Iscariot .

The Hebrew references doesn't say, nor even imply God used Satan to deceive David.

If you click the numbered "Strong's Concordance" in those references, you can see all other possible meanings of the Hebrew words used. Nothing that would implicate that God used Satan.
 
Upvote 0

timewerx

the village i--o--t--
Aug 31, 2012
15,266
5,899
✟299,269.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Single
I was just studying this one the other day...

2 Chronicles 22:2
"
Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign, and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. His mother’s name also was Athaliah the daughter of Omri"

2 Kings 8:26
"
Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign; and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. And his mother’s name was Athaliah, the daughter of Omri king of Israel"


The consensus being that it is a transcription error.

Strange. In the English translations. They were both twenty and two in age.

But in the more original Hebrew translation, one is indeed forty and two and the other twenty and two!


What is going on????:doh:


.
 
Upvote 0

ewq1938

I love you three.
Christian Forums Staff
Administrator
Site Supporter
Nov 5, 2011
44,419
6,800
✟916,402.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
2 Chronicles 22:2

(ABP+) [2 was a sonG5207 3beingG1510.6 4fortyG5062 5andG2532 6twoG1417 7years old G2094 1Ahaziah]G* inG1722 G3588 his reigning,G936 G1473 andG2532 [3yearG1763 2oneG1520 1he reigned]G936 inG1722 Jerusalem.G* AndG2532 the nameG3686 G3588 of his motherG3384 G1473 was AthaliahG* daughterG2364 of Omri.G*

(ASV) Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign; and he reigned one year in Jerusalem: and his mother's name was Athaliah the daughter of Omri.

(BBE) Ahaziah was twenty-two years old when he became king, and he was ruling in Jerusalem for one year. His mother's name was Athaliah, the daughter of Omri.

(Brenton) Ochozias began to reign when he was twenty years old, and he reigned one year in Jerusalem: and his mother's name was Gotholia, the daughter of Ambri.

(CEV) He was twenty-two years old at the time, and he ruled only one year from Jerusalem. Ahaziah's mother was Athaliah, a granddaughter of King Omri of Israel,

(Darby) Ahaziah was twenty-two years old when he began to reign; and he reigned one year in Jerusalem; and his mother's name was Athaliah, daughter of Omri.

(DRB) Ochozias was forty-two years old when he began to reign, and he reigned one year in Jerusalem, and the name of his mother was Athalia the daughter of Amri.

(ESV) Ahaziah was twenty-two years old when he began to reign, and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. His mother's name was Athaliah, the granddaughter of Omri.

(GNB) Ahaziah became king at the age of twenty-two, and he ruled in Jerusalem for one year. Ahaziah also followed the example of King Ahab's family, since his mother Athaliah---the daughter of King Ahab and granddaughter of King Omri of Israel---gave him advice that led him into evil.

(GW) Ahaziah was 42 years old when he began to rule, and he ruled for one year in Jerusalem. His mother was Athaliah, the granddaughter of Omri.

(ISV) Ahaziah was 22 years old when he became king, and he reigned for one year in Jerusalem. His mother was Athaliah, Omri's granddaughter.

(JPS) Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign; and he reigned one year in Jerusalem; and his mother's name was Athaliah the daughter of Omri.

(KJV) Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign, and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. His mother's name also was Athaliah the daughter of Omri.

(KJV+) FortyH705 and twoH8147 yearsH8141 oldH1121 was AhaziahH274 when he began to reign,H4427 and he reignedH4427 oneH259 yearH8141 in Jerusalem.H3389 His mother'sH517 nameH8034 also was AthaliahH6271 the daughterH1323 of Omri.H6018

(LITV) Ahaziah was a son of forty two years when he began to reign, and he reigned one year in Jerusalem; and the name of his mother was Athaliah the daughter of Omri.

(MKJV) Ahaziah's age was forty-two years old when he began to reign, and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. His mother's name was Athaliah the daughter of Omri.

(RV) Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign; and he reigned one year in Jerusalem: and his mother’s name was Athaliah the daughter of Omri.

(TLV) Ahaziah was 22 years old when he became king and he reigned in Jerusalem one year. His mother’s name was Athaliah the daughter of Omri.

(WEBA) Ahaziah was forty-two years old when he began to reign, and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. His mother’s name was Athaliah the daughter of Omri.

(Webster) Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign, and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. His mother's name also was Athaliah the daughter of Omri.

(YLT) A son of twenty and two years is Ahaziah in his reigning, and one year he hath reigned in Jerusalem, and the name of his mother is Athaliah daughter of Omri;
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Uncle Mikey
Upvote 0

ewq1938

I love you three.
Christian Forums Staff
Administrator
Site Supporter
Nov 5, 2011
44,419
6,800
✟916,402.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
Clarke:

2 Chronicles 22:2

Forty and two years old was Ahaziah - See the note on 2Ki_8:26. Ahaziah might have been twenty-two years old, according to 2Ki_8:26 (note), but he could not have been forty-two, as stated here, without being two years older than his own father! See the note there. The Syriac and Arabic have twenty-two, and the Septuagint, in some copies, twenty. And it is very probable that the Hebrew text read so originally; for when numbers were expressed by single letters, it was easy to mistake מ mem, Forty, for כ caph, Twenty. And if this book was written by a scribe who used the ancient Hebrew letters, now called the Samaritan, the mistake was still more easy and probable, as the difference between caph and mem is very small, and can in many instances be discerned only by an accustomed eye.
The reading in 2Ki_8:26 is right, and any attempt to reconcile this in Chronicles with that is equally futile and absurd. Both readings cannot be true; is that therefore likely to be genuine that makes the son two years older than the father who begat him? Apage hae nugae!
 
Upvote 0

DamianWarS

Follower of Isa Al Masih
Site Supporter
May 15, 2008
9,486
3,322
✟858,457.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I'm providing links to Biblehub of verses so you can see them in Hebrew. So don't just look at the verse, click the link so you see the Hebrew words yourself.

My concern is that I saw a verse repeated almost word-per-word in another verse.....But in the next verse, instead of mentioning "Yahweh", it mentioned "Satan".

Here are the verses:
https://biblehub.com/text/2_samuel/24-1.htm

https://biblehub.com/text/1_chronicles/21-1.htm


.
Hebraic philosophy uses block logic where ideas can be self contained and at the same time conflict another of the same account. A tension can exist and this is not a problem. Such has pharaoh harden his heart and God harden pharaoh's heart. It's the same result but through different perspectives. Ultimately nothing can happen without God.
 
Upvote 0

timewerx

the village i--o--t--
Aug 31, 2012
15,266
5,899
✟299,269.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Single
And if this book was written by a scribe who used the ancient Hebrew letters, now called the Samaritan, the mistake was still more easy and probable, as the difference between caph and mem is very small, and can in many instances be discerned only by an accustomed eye.
The reading in 2Ki_8:26 is right, and any attempt to reconcile this in Chronicles with that is equally futile and absurd. Both readings cannot be true; is that therefore likely to be genuine that makes the son two years older than the father who begat him? Apage hae nugae!

Yes, having two sets of verses with errors now. There's probably more. I'm confused. How could a divinely inspired book have errors.
 
Upvote 0

timewerx

the village i--o--t--
Aug 31, 2012
15,266
5,899
✟299,269.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Single
Intentionally?

I don't know. The set of verses quoted in 2 Chronicles and 2 Kings only looks like simple (innocent) mistakes.

The verses I linked in my OP is confusing. Can the word "satan" be used as a neutral word? After all, it means adversary or the accuser.

Can we ever call a good person "satan" if the person becomes an enemy? Can we call God "satan" if God decides us to be His enemies?
 
Upvote 0

Thir7ySev3n

Psalm 139
Sep 13, 2009
672
417
32
✟58,597.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I'm providing links to Biblehub of verses so you can see them in Hebrew. So don't just look at the verse, click the link so you see the Hebrew words yourself.

My concern is that I saw a verse repeated almost word-per-word in another verse.....But in the next verse, instead of mentioning "Yahweh", it mentioned "Satan".

Here are the verses:
https://biblehub.com/text/2_samuel/24-1.htm

https://biblehub.com/text/1_chronicles/21-1.htm


.

This is not an error or contradiction. When you consider that all things God knows the end from the beginning and all things occur within God's providence, it follows that Satan can do nothing without the consent of God ultimately. This is why we have an identical situation in the adjacent accounts of the 1st and 2nd chapters of Job, one of the oldest books of the Bible:

"And the LORD said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your hand. Only against him do not stretch out your hand.” So Satan went out from the presence of the LORD." (Job 1:12)

Subsequent to Satan's attacks against Job's property:

"And the LORD said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil? He still holds fast his integrity, although you incited me against him to destroy him without reason." (Job 2:3)

God's providence accounts for all things. Hence why the Scripture says: "Does disaster come to a city,
unless the LORD has done it?" (Amos 3:6)
 
Upvote 0

icxn

Bραδύγλωσσος αἰπόλος μαθητεύων κνίζειν συκάμινα
Dec 13, 2004
3,092
885
✟210,855.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Private
So God's anger is Satan? That doesn't sound right.
You are right. I had in mind the Greek Septuagint, which roughly translates, "And the Lord added anger to blaze against Israel..." and allows for such an interpretation.

Still, even if we interpret it as the Lord being angry with Israel, that doesn't mean that He tempted David to sin. Rather, because He was angry, He withdrew His protection and the Devil found an opportunity to attack David. Similar to what we read in Psalm 71:10-11 "For my enemies speak against me; those who wait to kill me conspire together. They say, 'God has forsaken him; pursue him and seize him, for no one will rescue him.”

This understanding has the Devil inciting David to sin in both passages and not God. Those who say that God, directly or through the Devil, tempted David, are in contradiction with James 1:13.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

timewerx

the village i--o--t--
Aug 31, 2012
15,266
5,899
✟299,269.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Single
This understanding has the Devil inciting David to sin in both passages and not God

The Hebrew analysis of the 2nd Samuel verse clearly says the Lord / Yahweh did it himself.

The verse on 1 Chronicles is simply a repetition of the 2nd Samuel verse but instead used "Satan" in place of Lord / Yahweh.

It doesn't even remotely imply that God allowed Satan to deal with David. The two verses are clearly saying the same individual did it, not two. But used different titles that are in opposition.

There's only two explanations favorable to Christianity in this dilemma:

- The word "Satan" (meaning: adversary, accuser, etc) can be applied to anyone who becomes an adversary even if they're not evil (God did become Israel's adversary in 2nd Samuel). Jesus also called Peter "satan" when Peter tried to save His life (good intention but against the Will of the Father)

- It's a typo.


.
 
Upvote 0

Eric Abbott

Active Member
Dec 8, 2016
60
46
35
Texas
Visit site
✟13,994.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
I'm providing links to Biblehub of verses so you can see them in Hebrew. So don't just look at the verse, click the link so you see the Hebrew words yourself.

My concern is that I saw a verse repeated almost word-per-word in another verse.....But in the next verse, instead of mentioning "Yahweh", it mentioned "Satan".

Here are the verses:
https://biblehub.com/text/2_samuel/24-1.htm

https://biblehub.com/text/1_chronicles/21-1.htm


.
Satan in this context can also mean 'Accuser'
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,502
7,861
...
✟1,192,985.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
2Sa 24:1 And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.
2Sa 24:2 For the king said to Joab the captain of the host, which was with him, Go now through all the tribes of Israel, from Dan even to Beersheba, and number ye the people, that I may know the number of the people.
2Sa 24:3 And Joab said unto the king, Now the LORD thy God add unto the people, how many soever they be, an hundredfold, and that the eyes of my lord the king may see it: but why doth my lord the king delight in this thing?
2Sa 24:4 Notwithstanding the king's word prevailed against Joab, and against the captains of the host. And Joab and the captains of the host went out from the presence of the king, to number the people of Israel.
2Sa 24:5 And they passed over Jordan, and pitched in Aroer, on the right side of the city that lieth in the midst of the river of Gad, and toward Jazer:
2Sa 24:6 Then they came to Gilead, and to the land of Tahtimhodshi; and they came to Danjaan, and about to Zidon,
2Sa 24:7 And came to the strong hold of Tyre, and to all the cities of the Hivites, and of the Canaanites: and they went out to the south of Judah, even to Beersheba.
2Sa 24:8 So when they had gone through all the land, they came to Jerusalem at the end of nine months and twenty days.
2Sa 24:9 And Joab gave up the sum of the number of the people unto the king: and there were in Israel eight hundred thousand valiant men that drew the sword; and the men of Judah were five hundred thousand men.

2Sa 24:10 And David's heart smote him after that he had numbered the people. And David said unto the LORD, I have sinned greatly in that I have done: and now, I beseech thee, O LORD, take away the iniquity of thy servant; for I have done very foolishly.
2Sa 24:11 For when David was up in the morning, the word of the LORD came unto the prophet Gad, David's seer, saying,
2Sa 24:12 Go and say unto David, Thus saith the LORD, I offer thee three things; choose thee one of them, that I may do it unto thee.
2Sa 24:13 So Gad came to David, and told him, and said unto him, Shall seven years of famine come unto thee in thy land? or wilt thou flee three months before thine enemies, while they pursue thee? or that there be three days' pestilence in thy land? now advise, and see what answer I shall return to him that sent me.
2Sa 24:14 And David said unto Gad, I am in a great strait: let us fall now into the hand of the LORD; for his mercies are great: and let me not fall into the hand of man.
2Sa 24:15 So the LORD sent a pestilence upon Israel from the morning even to the time appointed: and there died of the people from Dan even to Beersheba seventy thousand men.
2Sa 24:16 And when the angel stretched out his hand upon Jerusalem to destroy it, the LORD repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed the people, It is enough: stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD was by the threshingplace of Araunah the Jebusite.
2Sa 24:17 And David spake unto the LORD when he saw the angel that smote the people, and said, Lo, I have sinned, and I have done wickedly: but these sheep, what have they done? let thine hand, I pray thee, be against me, and against my father's house.
2Sa 24:18 And Gad came that day to David, and said unto him, Go up, rear an altar unto the LORD in the threshingfloor of Araunah the Jebusite.
2Sa 24:19 And David, according to the saying of Gad, went up as the LORD commanded.
2Sa 24:20 And Araunah looked, and saw the king and his servants coming on toward him: and Araunah went out, and bowed himself before the king on his face upon the ground.
2Sa 24:21 And Araunah said, Wherefore is my lord the king come to his servant? And David said, To buy the threshingfloor of thee, to build an altar unto the LORD, that the plague may be stayed from the people.
2Sa 24:22 And Araunah said unto David, Let my lord the king take and offer up what seemeth good unto him: behold, here be oxen for burnt sacrifice, and threshing instruments and other instruments of the oxen for wood.
2Sa 24:23 All these things did Araunah, as a king, give unto the king. And Araunah said unto the king, The LORD thy God accept thee.
2Sa 24:24 And the king said unto Araunah, Nay; but I will surely buy it of thee at a price: neither will I offer burnt offerings unto the LORD my God of that which doth cost me nothing. So David bought the threshingfloor and the oxen for fifty shekels of silver.
2Sa 24:25 And David built there an altar unto the LORD, and offered burnt offerings and peace offerings. So the LORD was intreated for the land, and the plague was stayed from Israel.

1Ch 21:1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.
1Ch 21:2 And David said to Joab and to the rulers of the people, Go, number Israel from Beersheba even to Dan; and bring the number of them to me, that I may know it.
1Ch 21:3 And Joab answered, The LORD make his people an hundred times so many more as they be: but, my lord the king, are they not all my lord's servants? why then doth my lord require this thing? why will he be a cause of trespass to Israel?
1Ch 21:4 Nevertheless the king's word prevailed against Joab. Wherefore Joab departed, and went throughout all Israel, and came to Jerusalem.
1Ch 21:5 And Joab gave the sum of the number of the people unto David. And all they of Israel were a thousand thousand and an hundred thousand men that drew sword: and Judah was four hundred threescore and ten thousand men that drew sword.
1Ch 21:6 But Levi and Benjamin counted he not among them: for the king's word was abominable to Joab.
1Ch 21:7 And God was displeased with this thing; therefore he smote Israel.
1Ch 21:8 And David said unto God, I have sinned greatly, because I have done this thing: but now, I beseech thee, do away the iniquity of thy servant; for I have done very foolishly.
1Ch 21:9 And the LORD spake unto Gad, David's seer, saying,
1Ch 21:10 Go and tell David, saying, Thus saith the LORD, I offer thee three things: choose thee one of them, that I may do it unto thee.
1Ch 21:11 So Gad came to David, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Choose thee
1Ch 21:12 Either three years' famine; or three months to be destroyed before thy foes, while that the sword of thine enemies overtaketh thee; or else three days the sword of the LORD, even the pestilence, in the land, and the angel of the LORD destroying throughout all the coasts of Israel. Now therefore advise thyself what word I shall bring again to him that sent me.
1Ch 21:13 And David said unto Gad, I am in a great strait: let me fall now into the hand of the LORD; for very great are his mercies: but let me not fall into the hand of man.
1Ch 21:14 So the LORD sent pestilence upon Israel: and there fell of Israel seventy thousand men.
1Ch 21:15 And God sent an angel unto Jerusalem to destroy it: and as he was destroying, the LORD beheld, and he repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed, It is enough, stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD stood by the threshingfloor of Ornan the Jebusite.
1Ch 21:16 And David lifted up his eyes, and saw the angel of the LORD stand between the earth and the heaven, having a drawn sword in his hand stretched out over Jerusalem. Then David and the elders of Israel, who were clothed in sackcloth, fell upon their faces.
1Ch 21:17 And David said unto God, Is it not I that commanded the people to be numbered? even I it is that have sinned and done evil indeed; but as for these sheep, what have they done? let thine hand, I pray thee, O LORD my God, be on me, and on my father's house; but not on thy people, that they should be plagued.
1Ch 21:18 Then the angel of the LORD commanded Gad to say to David, that David should go up, and set up an altar unto the LORD in the threshingfloor of Ornan the Jebusite.
1Ch 21:19 And David went up at the saying of Gad, which he spake in the name of the LORD.
1Ch 21:20 And Ornan turned back, and saw the angel; and his four sons with him hid themselves. Now Ornan was threshing wheat.
1Ch 21:21 And as David came to Ornan, Ornan looked and saw David, and went out of the threshingfloor, and bowed himself to David with his face to the ground.
1Ch 21:22 Then David said to Ornan, Grant me the place of this threshingfloor, that I may build an altar therein unto the LORD: thou shalt grant it me for the full price: that the plague may be stayed from the people.
1Ch 21:23 And Ornan said unto David, Take it to thee, and let my lord the king do that which is good in his eyes: lo, I give thee the oxen also for burnt offerings, and the threshing instruments for wood, and the wheat for the meat offering; I give it all.
1Ch 21:24 And king David said to Ornan, Nay; but I will verily buy it for the full price: for I will not take that which is thine for the LORD, nor offer burnt offerings without cost.
1Ch 21:25 So David gave to Ornan for the place six hundred shekels of gold by weight.
1Ch 21:26 And David built there an altar unto the LORD, and offered burnt offerings and peace offerings, and called upon the LORD; and he answered him from heaven by fire upon the altar of burnt offering.
1Ch 21:27 And the LORD commanded the angel; and he put up his sword again into the sheath thereof.
1Ch 21:28 At that time when David saw that the LORD had answered him in the threshingfloor of Ornan the Jebusite, then he sacrificed there.
1Ch 21:29 For the tabernacle of the LORD, which Moses made in the wilderness, and the altar of the burnt offering, were at that season in the high place at Gibeon.
1Ch 21:30 But David could not go before it to enquire of God: for he was afraid because of the sword of the angel of the LORD.

The numbers counted do not match plus in one Levi and Benjamin weren't counted but that isn't in the other account. Either this is one account with tons of errors or it's two different accounts of a census being taken.

In that count how many fighting men were found in Israel?

(a) Eight hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9)
(b) One million, one hundred thousand (1 Chronicles 21:5)

The distinction was made here between those who volunteered for battle as valiant fighting men in 2 Samuel 24:9 and the text in 1 Chronicles 21:5 which refers to Israel at 1,100,000 – all they of Israel that drew the sword. The law prohibits sending non volunteers to battle, which is the distinction made here. Bullinger explains that in the footnotes also so there is no excuse for this misrepresentation.

So also is it with Judah in the next paragraph.

------------------

How many fighting men were found in Judah?

(a) Five hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9)
(b) Four hundred and seventy thousand (1 Chronicles 21:5)

The text in 2 Samuel 24:9 refers to the “men of Judah.” The text in 1 Chronicles 21:5 refers to the “men that drew the sword” which was 30,000 less than the total men of Judah.

No person who has ever seen active service, nor a medical officer who had any idea of forces, would make such a basic error. There is no contradiction.
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,502
7,861
...
✟1,192,985.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
The Hebrew analysis of the 2nd Samuel verse clearly says the Lord / Yahweh did it himself.

The verse on 1 Chronicles is simply a repetition of the 2nd Samuel verse but instead used "Satan" in place of Lord / Yahweh.

It doesn't even remotely imply that God allowed Satan to deal with David. The two verses are clearly saying the same individual did it, not two. But used different titles that are in opposition.

There's only two explanations favorable to Christianity in this dilemma:

- The word "Satan" (meaning: adversary, accuser, etc) can be applied to anyone who becomes an adversary even if they're not evil (God did become Israel's adversary in 2nd Samuel). Jesus also called Peter "satan" when Peter tried to save His life (good intention but against the Will of the Father)

- It's a typo.


.

Errors in the Bible only exist in the mind of a person who is looking to find them. There are many things that do not make sense in God's Word. But with enough study, understanding will come to you if you trust in God's Word instead of trusting your own way. For there is a way that seems right to a man, but the end thereof is death (See Proverbs 14:12). If a person trusts God's Word in what it says they will have the understanding.

See, I would rather be wrong in trusting God's Word then have to face God one day and say that His Word was corrupted in some way and I got to decide what parts of His Word were true or not true. But that would make me God to decide what His Word should actually say. But I am not God. God's Word is truth; Every word of it. You either believe it all or you don't. The choice is yours. But don't rely on human reasoning just because you don't understand it. Trust God and His Word. He will never let you down. Pray for the understanding and seek the truth by reading tons of articles on this subject and the truth will be given to you.

Anyways, God incited David to sin in taking the census NOT DIRECTLY but INDIRECTLY by giving Satan permission to incite David to take of the census. So it is not a contradiction, unless of course you want to see one. The devil puts temptation in our path. God allows this to happen. God allowed David to be tempted (incited to take of the census) by the devil because God was angry with David. It was also a test to see where His loyalty was at. David later realized he had sinned by not trusting God to fight His battles instead of trusting in the numbers of his armies.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Sine Nomine

Scientist and Christian
Jun 13, 2012
197
84
Albany, NY
✟26,489.00
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Married
I'm providing links to Biblehub of verses so you can see them in Hebrew. So don't just look at the verse, click the link so you see the Hebrew words yourself.

My concern is that I saw a verse repeated almost word-per-word in another verse.....But in the next verse, instead of mentioning "Yahweh", it mentioned "Satan".

Here are the verses:
https://biblehub.com/text/2_samuel/24-1.htm

https://biblehub.com/text/1_chronicles/21-1.htm


.

One point I’ve not seen mentioned is that the Semitic cultures of that time maintained two records of major political/kingdom events. 1) those kept by those in power (ie the Kings) and 2) those kept by independent observers (ie Chroniclers). Experts in this claim that the accounts of “kings” tend to favor the king, the national identity, etc and contain exaggerated and sometimes information that contradicts historical facts (where known). The “chroniclers” accounts tend to be more accurate (less biased). Much like the difference between positive spin or perhaps propaganda supporting a national agenda vs investigative journalism. If you view Kings and Chronicles as “historical” documents, the inconsistencies/contradictions make sense and shouldn’t be a concern. If you view these books as “authoritative scripture” then any contradictions are problematic and must be resolved (at least existentially). Perhaps a better answer is in the middle somewhere. We have a good historical account with the biases of the day that tells us about God’s relationship with His people and how it played out—things we can learn from, but perhaps not strictly solid for deriving Theological truths.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: timewerx
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

timewerx

the village i--o--t--
Aug 31, 2012
15,266
5,899
✟299,269.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Single
One point I’ve not seen mentioned is that the Semitic cultures of that time maintained two records of major political/kingdom events. 1) those kept by those in power (ie the Kings) and 2) those kept by independent observers (ie Chroniclers). Experts in this claim that the accounts of “kings” tend to favor the king, the national identity, etc and contain exaggerated and sometimes information that contradicts historical facts (where known). The “chroniclers” accounts tend to be more accurate (less biased). Much like the difference between positive spin or perhaps propaganda supporting a national agenda vs investigative journalism. If you view Kings and Chronicles as “historical” documents, the inconsistencies/contradictions make sense and shouldn’t be a concern. If you view these books as “authoritative scripture” then any contradictions are problematic and must be resolved (at least existentially). Perhaps a better answer is in the middle somewhere. We have a good historical account with the biases of the day that tells us about God’s relationship with His people and how it played out—things we can learn from, but perhaps not strictly solid for deriving Theological truths.

This is problematic concerning the supposedly divine inspiration and inerrancy of the Bible.

Ironically, that is a more favorable answer to Christianity than having God and Satan as the same individual (or God capable of causing evil directly by himself).
 
Upvote 0

Petros2015

Well-Known Member
Jun 23, 2016
5,091
4,327
52
undisclosed Bunker
✟289,335.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
How could a divinely inspired book have errors.

Let us suppose that you are a gifted sculptor.

And an angel stands to model for you.

And you sculpt the angel to the best of your ability.

Is your sculpture divinely inspired?

Does it have errors? Or is it perfection?

And if it is perfection, is it a sculpture? Or an angel?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,502
7,861
...
✟1,192,985.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
This is problematic concerning the supposedly divine inspiration and inerrancy of the Bible.

Ironically, that is a more favorable answer to Christianity than having God and Satan as the same individual (or God capable of causing evil directly by himself).

Could God prevent the devil in inciting David? The answer is..."Yes.” So God allowed David to be incited. This means God incited David indirectly by way of the devil. For example: If you stood by allowing somebody to be murdered, when you knew you could have stopped it, are you not in part some way responsible for allowing the murder to happen? God is responsible for allowing sin to exist in our universe. At any moment He can stop sin, but He doesn't. At least, not yet (anyways). When Jesus returns, He will put at end to sin within this world. But until then, God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. That is why God allows for evil to go unchecked (according to our eyes) sometimes. God wants men to repent. God also tests his faithful ones like with God allowing the devil to incite David in doing a census. However, David should have trusted God to fight His battles and not the number of men that he had.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Hawkins

Member
Site Supporter
Apr 27, 2005
2,568
394
Canada
✟237,544.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I'm providing links to Biblehub of verses so you can see them in Hebrew. So don't just look at the verse, click the link so you see the Hebrew words yourself.

My concern is that I saw a verse repeated almost word-per-word in another verse.....But in the next verse, instead of mentioning "Yahweh", it mentioned "Satan".

Here are the verses:
https://biblehub.com/text/2_samuel/24-1.htm

https://biblehub.com/text/1_chronicles/21-1.htm


.

It's a matter of perspective. Who built the Great Wall in China?

An emperor in Qin Dynasty. This is a correct answers.
Chinese labors. This is yet another correct answers.

Your question here is rather "whether it is an emperor or the labors who built Great Wall".

Ancient Jews used to write in a absolute sovereignty sense. That's why in a paragraph it is said that God hardened Pharaoh's heart, in the next paragraph it is said that Pharaoh hardened his own heart.

2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 (NIV2011)
For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie
and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.



It is thus possible that the powerful delusion is actually caused by Satan. In this case, the above verses are written in an absolute sense of God's sovereignty. They can be taken as "God allows a powerful delusion to happen".
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,502
7,861
...
✟1,192,985.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I'm providing links to Biblehub of verses so you can see them in Hebrew. So don't just look at the verse, click the link so you see the Hebrew words yourself.

My concern is that I saw a verse repeated almost word-per-word in another verse.....But in the next verse, instead of mentioning "Yahweh", it mentioned "Satan".

Here are the verses:
https://biblehub.com/text/2_samuel/24-1.htm

https://biblehub.com/text/1_chronicles/21-1.htm


.

Also, the English word "incite" can mean "entice."
To "entice" means that God enticed David by way of the devil.
The devil tempted David (but God allowed it to happen).

Anyways, you can see the definition of the word "entice" (which means to tempt) in the definition below in Strongs at BlueLetterBible.

full


For we see the same word that is rendered as "incite" is also rendered as "entice" in another part of Scripture.

Incite 02.png


Source:
Incite - BlueLetterBible.
 
Upvote 0