Two Messiah?

[AbbaLove]

Come on abbalove ..you resist Satan every moment of your life ?...u never sin bro? are you holier than Adam and eve? ....everybody sins every day.. ..

The temptation to be as wise as Hashem was simply hard to resist.. .

That reasoning suggests that because Eve (and Adam) were unable to resist the cunning deception (lie and temptation) of Satan that therefore Satan is still able to cunningly deceive born again Believers today. According to your logic today's born again Followers of Yeshua can't resist the temptation of sin ("....everybody sins every day.. ..") anymore than Eve (and Adam). Just because this postmodern seeker sensitive theology is bought into by so-called Christians doesn't mean it by any means gets God's stamp of approval (Luke 10:27).

Is it your logic that those Christians that can't seem to resist the lure of sinful pleasures ("they sin everyday") should chide other Believers as holier than Adam and Eve because they are more obedient to God than were Eve and Adam ?

Is it your belief that born again followers of Yeshua (e.g. Apostles) sinned every day ("everybody sins every day") having the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit as their counselor ... And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen. (Matthew 6:13)

Just because we see other Christians practicing sin every day should we join them with a false theology (error of hyper-grace) that our past, present and future sins are already forgiven? ... https://askdrbrown.org/library/future-sins-forgiven-advance-fundamental-error-hyper-grace

Just curious: how was she deceived yet Adam was not?

What makes you think Adam wasn't deceived by both the serpent and Eve?

​

 

[Chinchilla]

That reasoning suggests that because Eve (and Adam) were unable to resist the cunning deception (lie and temptation) of Sata

Adam was not deceived
1 Timothy 2:14 King James Version (KJV)
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

 

[AbbaLove]

Adam was not deceived
1 Timothy 2:14 King James Version (KJV)
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

beguile: charm, attract, enchant, entrance, win over, woo, captivate, bewitch, spellbind, dazzle, hypnotize, mesmerize, seduce​

I agree that Adam was not beguiled in the same manner as was Eve, and yet Adam was still indirectly deceived and/OR he didn't think it was that big a deal to disobey God.

Job 31:33
Have I covered my transgressions like Adam, by hiding my iniquity in my bosom,​

Woman were far from looked upon as co-equals possibly because of Genesis 3:17-19. So it was to be expected for Jewish men to blame Eve as is expressed in the Jewish Prayer book (Sedur) ...

"Blessed are you, Hashem, King of the Universe, for not having made me a Gentile."
"Blessed are you, Hashem, King of the Universe, for not having made me a slave."
"Blessed are you, Hashem, King of the Universe, for not having made me a woman."
​

It's supposed this prayer is still said every morning by millions of Jews around the world. ... https://www.chabad.org/theJewishWom...g-Thank-You-G-d-for-Not-Making-Me-a-Woman.htm​

And yet Adam was held responsible because he listened (acted upon) to his wife's voice ...

Genesis 3:17-19
17 And to Adam he said, “Because you listened to the voice of your wife and you ate from the tree from which I forbade you to eat, the ground shall be cursed on your account. In pain you shall eat from it all the days of your life.
18 And thorns and thistles shall sprout for you, and you shall eat the plants of the field.
19 By the sweat of your brow you shall eat bread, until your return to the ground. For from it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return.”​

2 Corinthians 11:2-4 (applies to gentiles and jews, men and women, slave and free)
2 For I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy, because I promised you in marriage to one husband, to present you as a pure virgin to Christ.
3 But I am afraid lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds may be led astray from the sincerity and the purity of devotion to Christ.
4 For if the one who comes proclaims another Jesus whom we have not proclaimed, or you receive a different spirit which you did not receive, or a different gospel which you did not accept, you put up with it well enough!​

 

[Chinchilla]

"Blessed are you, Hashem, King of the Universe, for not having made me a Gentile."
"Blessed are you, Hashem, King of the Universe, for not having made me a slave."
"Blessed are you, Hashem, King of the Universe, for not having made me a woman."

So that's why Jesus was angry at them cuz of such prayers...

I wonder how many people prayed such thinking they do good by doing so .
Luke 18:10-14 King James Version (KJV)
10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.

11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

 

[Dkh587]

​

That reasoning suggests that because Eve (and Adam) were unable to resist the cunning deception (lie and temptation) of Satan that therefore Satan is still able to cunningly deceive born again Believers today. According to your logic today's born again Followers of Yeshua can't resist the temptation of sin ("....everybody sins every day.. ..") anymore than Eve (and Adam). Just because this postmodern seeker sensitive theology is bought into by so-called Christians doesn't mean it by any means gets God's stamp of approval (Luke 10:27).

Is it your logic that those Christians that can't seem to resist the lure of sinful pleasures ("they sin everyday") should chide other Believers as holier than Adam and Eve because they are more obedient to God than were Eve and Adam ?

Is it your belief that born again followers of Yeshua (e.g. Apostles) sinned every day ("everybody sins every day") having the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit as their counselor ... And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen. (Matthew 6:13)

Just because we see other Christians practicing sin every day should we join them with a false theology (error of hyper-grace) that our past, present and future sins are already forgiven? ... https://askdrbrown.org/library/future-sins-forgiven-advance-fundamental-error-hyper-grace

​

What makes you think Adam wasn't deceived by both the serpent and Eve?

​

1 Timothy 2:11-14

Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

 

[dfw69]

​

That reasoning suggests that because Eve (and Adam) were unable to resist the cunning deception (lie and temptation) of Satan that therefore Satan is still able to cunningly deceive born again Believers today. According to your logic today's born again Followers of Yeshua can't resist the temptation of sin ("....everybody sins every day.. ..") anymore than Eve (and Adam). Just because this postmodern seeker sensitive theology is bought into by so-called Christians doesn't mean it by any means gets God's stamp of approval (Luke 10:27).

Is it your logic that those Christians that can't seem to resist the lure of sinful pleasures ("they sin everyday") should chide other Believers as holier than Adam and Eve because they are more obedient to God than were Eve and Adam ?

Is it your belief that born again followers of Yeshua (e.g. Apostles) sinned every day ("everybody sins every day") having the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit as their counselor ... And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen. (Matthew 6:13)

Just because we see other Christians practicing sin every day should we join them with a false theology (error of hyper-grace) that our past, present and future sins are already forgiven? ... https://askdrbrown.org/library/future-sins-forgiven-advance-fundamental-error-hyper-grace

​

What makes you think Adam wasn't deceived by both the serpent and Eve?

​

[Staff edit].

I live my life knowing full well that i have sin in my life ..that is if I compare my life to the law ...then yes I'm guilty of the law ....but I don't put myself under the law because the law is dead to me....yahshua fulfilled the law for me and I live my life by his grace upon my life....and await his promises....

because I sin I forgive other sinners and have mercy on them because my lord has mercy upon me everyday...

I know will not get the victory over sin and death until my lord does it for me...he will get rid of sin in my life when he clothes me in his righteousness..... When flesh puts on spirit.....when corruption puts on incorruption ...at the appointed time

 

[dfw69]

​

That reasoning suggests that because Eve (and Adam) were unable to resist the cunning deception (lie and temptation) of Satan that therefore Satan is still able to cunningly deceive born again Believers today. According to your logic today's born again Followers of Yeshua can't resist the temptation of sin ("....everybody sins every day.. ..") anymore than Eve (and Adam). Just because this postmodern seeker sensitive theology is bought into by so-called Christians doesn't mean it by any means gets God's stamp of approval (Luke 10:27).

Yes we are tempted by the flesh every day ....and we will continue to be tempted by the flesh until our flesh is totally redeemed...

Thus the need to crusify the deeds of the flesh and the need to forgive sinners especially in the faith...for the flesh is week ...i know of many members in yahshua yet deceived by doctrine. and yet to be delivered ...

Is it your logic that those Christians that can't seem to resist the lure of sinful pleasures ("they sin everyday") should chide other Believers as holier than Adam and Eve because they are more obedient to God than were Eve and Adam ?

No we all fight the temptations of the flesh everyday as well....sometimes we get the victory other times we dont...

Are you saying that if you (abbalove) were Adam do you think your love for hashem would have made you not eat the fruit?...would you have been holier than Adam ?

Is it your belief that born again followers of Yeshua (e.g. Apostles) sinned every day ("everybody sins every day") having the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit as their counselor ... And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen. (Matthew 6:13)

AS long as a believer is in this earthly body we are capable of failer .... but we have a blessed hope...if we remain in the faith ...that Yahshua is gonna change us and our flesh will no longer have dominion over us . .we will be new creatures ...sons of hashem ...we have those promises by faith in yahshua who will one day fulfill those promises

Just because we see other Christians practicing sin every day should we join them with a false theology (error of hyper-grace) that our past, present and future sins are already forgiven?

No of course not ....we are called to walk as yahshua walk ... to love all mankind ... to crusify the flesh ...to not let sin reign in our bodies. We are called to get the victory and run the race. .but we have an advocate with the father if we fall...

And because Yahshua has mercy on us everyday we must also show mercy 490 times in one day ...because hashem forgives us 490 times in one day

 

[AbbaLove]

....everybody sins every day.. ..

A worldly seeker sensitive Christian that has been deceived by the error of hyper-grace.
https://askdrbrown.org/library/future-sins-forgiven-advance-fundamental-error-hyper-grace

I know will not get the victory over sin and death until my lord does it for me...he will get rid of sin in my life when he clothes me in his righteousness..... When flesh puts on spirit.....when corruption puts on incorruption ...at the appointed time

It would do you well to capitalize Lord in the future and mediate on these verses ...

John 3:3
Jesus replied, "Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."
1 John 3:9
Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God's seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.​

 

[dfw69]

​

A worldly seeker sensitive Christian that has been deceived by the error of hyper-grace.
https://askdrbrown.org/library/future-sins-forgiven-advance-fundamental-error-hyper-grace

​

It would do you well to capitalize Lord in the future and mediate on these verses ...

John 3:3
Jesus replied, "Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."
1 John 3:9
Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God's seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.​

You may doubt my salvation ...but I don't ...i know who I am in messiah yahshua .......peace bro ...

 

[AbbaLove]

You got off on the wrong foot when you posted that as born again Christians "....everybody sins everyday.. .." (false doctrine of hyper-grace teaching).

Your above comment suggests you have unknowingly accepted the fundamental error of post modern seeker-sensitive hyper-grace by which many Christians are being deceived. That is why i'm posting the link again in hopes that you will understand the reality that hyper-grace is a false doctrine.
https://askdrbrown.org/library/future-sins-forgiven-advance-fundamental-error-hyper-grace

2 Corinthians 11:3
But I am afraid lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds may be led astray from the sincerity and the purity of devotion to Christ.

Galatians 5:24
And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.​

May God Bless you with His indwelling presence so that you won't find yourself sinning everyday.

 

[dfw69]

You got off on the wrong foot when you posted that as born again Christians "....everybody sins everyday.. .." (false doctrine of hyper-grace teaching).

Your above comment suggests you have unknowingly accepted the fundamental error of post modern seeker-sensitive hyper-grace by which many Christians are being deceived. That is why i'm posting the link again in hopes that you will understand the reality that hyper-grace is a false doctrine.
https://askdrbrown.org/library/future-sins-forgiven-advance-fundamental-error-hyper-grace

2 Corinthians 11:3
But I am afraid lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds may be led astray from the sincerity and the purity of devotion to Christ.

Galatians 5:24
And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.​

I don't know about no hyper grace ...i just know we are in the flesh and as long as we are in the flesh we sin....​

May God Bless you with His indwelling presence so that you won't find yourself sinning everyday.

I pray to that...

 

[visionary]

I don't know about no hyper grace ...i just know we are in the flesh and as long as we are in the flesh we sin....​

I pray to that...

Yeshua's goal for us all is for us to "sin no more"... and He gave us His Holy Spirit to pull it off. Do not believe the lie of Satan that it can not be done.

 

[dfw69]

Yeshua's goal for us all is for us to "sin no more"... and He gave us His Holy Spirit to pull it off. Do not believe the lie of Satan that it can not be done.

I believe it will be done when flesh puts on Spirit . ..when our transformation is completed..it's a future hope ...until then we are still weak being in the flesh . and we war against the flesh through the workings of spirit until our transformation comes from heaven ...and then we receive our new heavenly bodies ...this faith is not a lie...

 

[AbbaLove]

I don't know about no hyper grace ...i just know we are in the flesh and as long as we are in the flesh we sin....

Just because the Christians you fellowship with may believe as you (....everybody sins everyday....) doesn't make it right. They are deceived if they think their future sins are already forgiven (hyper-grace).

In fact before the advent of Christianity the Tanakh says that by trusting in the LORD God it's possible for a person to stop sinning (Proverbs 3:5-6). The following Words of Jesus applied to Jews before the advent of Christianity. So what then is the advantage of Christianity if Christians are unable to stop sinning ("....everybody sins everyday....") even though it was possible for Jews during the time of Jesus to stop sinning. Certainly you don't believe Jesus is lying in John 5:14 or John 8:

John 5:13-14
13 But the man who was cured did not know who it was, because Jesus had slipped away into the crowd that was there.
14 After this, Jesus found him in the temple complex and said to him, “See, you are well. Do not sin anymore, so that something worse doesn’t happen to you.”
John 8:10-11
10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.​

In that it is possible to stop sinning and sin no more then you've got to consider the possibility that you've been deceived into thinking "...everybody sins everyday...."

Galatians 5:24
And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.​

Your theology (...everybody sins everyday) is a deception even if you were still living under the covenant found in the Tanakh. Don't you see that even more so as a Christian you've been deceived if those that you fellowship with believe ... "everybody sins everyday....".

 

[dfw69]

​

Just because the Christians you fellowship with may believe as you (....everybody sins everyday....) doesn't make it right. They are deceived if they think their future sins are already forgiven (hyper-grace).

In fact before the advent of Christianity the Tanakh says that by trusting in the LORD God it's possible for a person to stop sinning (Proverbs 3:5-6). The following Words of Jesus applied to Jews before the advent of Christianity. So what then is the advantage of Christianity if Christians are unable to stop sinning ("....everybody sins everyday....") even though it was possible for Jews during the time of Jesus to stop sinning. Certainly you don't believe Jesus is lying in John 5:14 or John 8:

John 5:13-14
13 But the man who was cured did not know who it was, because Jesus had slipped away into the crowd that was there.
14 After this, Jesus found him in the temple complex and said to him, “See, you are well. Do not sin anymore, so that something worse doesn’t happen to you.”
John 8:10-11
10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.​

In that it is possible to stop sinning and sin no more then you've got to consider the possibility that you've been deceived into thinking "...everybody sins everyday...."

Galatians 5:24
And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.​

Your theology (...everybody sins everyday) is a deception even if you were still living under the covenant found in the Tanakh. Don't you see that even more so as a Christian you've been deceived if those that you fellowship with believe ... "everybody sins everyday....".

Pray for me abbalove ......peace

 

[AbbaLove]

I will remember you in my prayers, but what is most important that YOU earnestly pray for greater understanding. As Christians when realizing one has sinned and then repents (turns around), the LORD God will forgive their sin.

The deception in much of seeker-sensitive Christianity is that future sins have already been forgiven (not Biblical). If that were true (which it isn't) then what is the incentive to stop sinning if your future sins have already been forgiven before one committed the sin(s).

 

[Eloy Craft]

If Adam was what we might refer to as a real man or a Man's man why would he have even accepted the fruit from Eve, let alone eat it? Are we to deduce that a woman can so easily entice a man to do something he shouldn't and therefore Adam was like putty in the hands of Eve?

Adam was punished for doing that, so it follows he wasn't being the man God intended for him to be.

I believe he was such a man's man that he was willing to suffer the consequences of Eve's sin with her. Adam knew she had eaten the forbidden fruit and was not willing to have her suffer alone. So he ate it as well. IMHO.

If he would have not sinned he would be a living testimony against her. A contradiction that would cause her to rise. She would have had no obstacle preventing her from reuniting to her, now savior Adam. Losing her was a death that he was not willing to risk for God. IMO

 

[Hoshiyya]

One is for the Lord, representing Yeshua. The other, the scapegoat, is thrown into an abyss, and represents the antichrist.

The antichrist is also called the destroyer and "the angel of the abyss" in the book of revelation, where he is also described as coming up out of the abyss. He was anciently called Azazel, and like the scapegoat, he was thrown into the abyss, as described in the book of Enoch. In that abyss he shall remain until released as described by John in revelation.

 

[gadar perets]

One is for the Lord, representing Yeshua. The other, the scapegoat, is thrown into an abyss, and represents the antichrist.

The antichrist is also called the destroyer and "the angel of the abyss" in the book of revelation, where he is also described as coming up out of the abyss. He was anciently called Azazel, and like the scapegoat, he was thrown into the abyss, as described in the book of Enoch. In that abyss he shall remain until released as described by John in revelation.

The book of Leviticus, which has far more weight than the extra-Biblical book of Enoch, says nothing about throwing the "scapegoat" into an abyss. If an atonement is made with that goat (Lev 16:10) and the goat represents the antichrist, then we have the antichrist making atonement for the sins of Israel. Yeshua is the only one who makes atonement for Israel's sins.

Also, why do you say the goat represents antichrist if Revelation says Satan is the one thrown into the abyss (Rev 20:1-3)?

 

[Hoshiyya]

The book of Leviticus, which has far more weight than the extra-Biblical book of Enoch, says nothing about throwing the "scapegoat" into an abyss. If an atonement is made with that goat (Lev 16:10) and the goat represents the antichrist, then we have the antichrist making atonement for the sins of Israel. Yeshua is the only one who makes atonement for Israel's sins.

Also, why do you say the goat represents antichrist if Revelation says Satan is the one thrown into the abyss (Rev 20:1-3)?

The Jews when they "sent the goat into the wilderness" would throw it down a cliff, in other words it would tumble down into a (physical) abyss. In any case the wilderness itself could be said to represent the abyss, as the wilderness, like the (spiritual) abyss, was considered the haunt of evil spirits.

Goats don't actually make atonement for anything, but removing the Antichrist and what he represents is obviously a prerequisite for atonement. You repent of your sins, remove your sins, then you are forgiven.

You might as well say "goats represent sinners (Matthew 25:33), so why isn't Yeshua symbolized by a lamb instead?"

"why do you say the goat represents antichrist if Revelation says Satan is the one thrown into the abyss"

Because Azazel is already in the abyss, as described in Revelation (where he is called the angel of the abyss, Revelation 9:11). Of course, Satan and Azazel share a lot of symbology, but Satan is not the Antichrist, whereas the angel of the abyss is. The parallel is between Christ and Antichrist.