Did Jesus set the law aside when he opened the man’s eyes?

[Doctor.Sphinx]

Thanks for you comment. But this is a problem.

Jesus said the priests were desecrating the Sabbath, yet were innocent. How can you desecrate something without harming it? Same goes for circumcision on the Sabbath. Jesus would not have made a point of it if there was no issue. Again, Jesus was showing us that the law is in conflict with itself.

The higher laws took precedance over the lower.

 

[bling]

Thanks for your comment.

How can "the desecration of the Sabbath" not be a sin? How do you define "desecrate"?

I'm seeing this a little differently. Jesus was pointing out that the law was in conflict with itself. This is well demonstrated in the scripture below. The conclusion is in verse 24.

No work was allowed on the Sabbath, however a boy was required to be circumcised on the eighth day. (Lev. 12:3) If that day fell on a Sabbath, the "work" would need to be done. Therefore, the Sabbath was broken in order to fulfill the law concerning circumcision.

Which Jesus used as an example of what he had done. Therefore, in saying this he was admitting a Sabbath violation in order to do what needed to be done. His heavenly Father had directed the "work" be done on the Sabbath. And in fact the heavenly Father had done, or partnered in, the "work" done on the Sabbath. What should we concluded if the law was not being set aside?

John 7:23-24
Now if a boy can be circumcised on the Sabbath so that
the law of Moses may not be broken, why are you angry with me
for healing a man’s whole body on the Sabbath?
24 Stop judging by mere appearances, but instead judge correctly.”

First off it is not so much how I define “desecration” as it is: how do we define “sin”.

God defines sin, so in Adam and Eve’s case the only way they might have been able to “sin” is by eating the fruit, because God defines “sin”.

A Jew in 30 AD sinned if he ate a pig, but in 35 AD that same Jew could eat a pig and not sin, because there is a timing issue (before and after Christianity), a person issue (Gentiles in 30AD could eat a pig without sinning) and a knowledge issue (since a Jew thinking in 35 AD he was sinning by eating a pig and doing it anyway would be a sin for him).

I do not see the priests shamefully “desecrating” the Sabbath day, since they were worshipping extremely hard and making the Sabbath Day truly a worship filled Holy day, but they did “desecrate” the Sabbath Law (the rules for the people to keep). I see Jesus saying “Sabbath” to mean “Sabbath Law”, since a Sabbath, as it is today, is just another “day” without the Sabbath Law.

We can conclude that God can make exceptions or additions to even God given laws.

Today we can keep and should keep the Sabbath Rest every day, but it is like the Priests did. We are in the Jubilee Age where every day is a Sabbath and we are all priests keeping the Sabbath. We do not “work” by God’s definition of work, but do everything in obedience to God’s commands (worship). The “addition” to the Sabbath law is worship is to be done on the Sabbath (which is the way it was prior to Christ) and we are all priests.

 

[Saint Steven]

Matthew 5:17
“Do not think that I came to abolish the (Mosaic) Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.

Luke 24:44...post-resurrection Jesus to His closest followers
Now He said to them,
“These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you,
that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.”

Luke 6:5
And He was saying to them, “The Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.”

There we go. That's better than a simple, "No."
However, based on your scripture choices, you should have said, "Yes!"

I asked if "the law" (small "l") had been set aside, not "the Law" (capital "L")
And, how do you "abolish" a Prophet, or a Psalm?

 

[Saint Steven]

The higher laws took precedance over the lower.

So

are ​

you saying that the Sabbath is a "lower" law?

 

[Saint Steven]

First off it is not so much how I define “desecration” as it is: how do we define “sin”.

God defines sin, so in Adam and Eve’s case the only way they might have been able to “sin” is by eating the fruit, because God defines “sin”.

A Jew in 30 AD sinned if he ate a pig, but in 35 AD that same Jew could eat a pig and not sin, because there is a timing issue (before and after Christianity), a person issue (Gentiles in 30AD could eat a pig without sinning) and a knowledge issue (since a Jew thinking in 35 AD he was sinning by eating a pig and doing it anyway would be a sin for him).

I do not see the priests shamefully “desecrating” the Sabbath day, since they were worshipping extremely hard and making the Sabbath Day truly a worship filled Holy day, but they did “desecrate” the Sabbath Law (the rules for the people to keep). I see Jesus saying “Sabbath” to mean “Sabbath Law”, since a Sabbath, as it is today, is just another “day” without the Sabbath Law.

We can conclude that God can make exceptions or additions to even God given laws.

Today we can keep and should keep the Sabbath Rest every day, but it is like the Priests did. We are in the Jubilee Age where every day is a Sabbath and we are all priests keeping the Sabbath. We do not “work” by God’s definition of work, but do everything in obedience to God’s commands (worship). The “addition” to the Sabbath law is worship is to be done on the Sabbath (which is the way it was prior to Christ) and we are all priests.

Thanks for your reply. I don't recall if you responded to the main question.
Did Jesus set the law aside when he opened the man’s eyes?

 

[Doctor.Sphinx]

So

are ​

you saying that the Sabbath is a "lower" law?

Than circumcision on the eighth day and duties of the priests were - yes.

Why else does Paul argue primarily against circumcision in Galatians, rather than the Sabbath? Why else did the Judaisers focus on circumcision, rather than Sabbath observance?

 

[Saint Steven]

Than circumcision on the eighth day and duties of the priests were - yes.

Why else does Paul argue primarily against circumcision in Galatians, rather than the Sabbath? Why else did the Judaisers focus on circumcision, rather than Sabbath observance?

I think they wanted the gentiles to have some skin in the game. lol

But seriously, you make an interesting point.

However, the law is a singular thing. It's not a buffet where you can take a dab of this and a spoonful of that. You are either under the law, the whole law, and all of the law, or you are not. (I prefer the latter)

 

[Doctor.Sphinx]

I think they wanted the gentiles to have some skin in the game. lol

But seriously, you make an interesting point.

However, the law is a singular thing. It's not a buffet where you can take a dab of this and a spoonful of that. You are either under the law, the whole law, and all of the law, or you are not. (I prefer the latter)

I agree. What I meant was that the Sabbath was an important law - people got stoned for not keeping it. Yet 8th-day circumcision was kept even if the 8th day fell on the Sabbath - so even more important (and Moses - arguably one of Israel's greatest leaders - nearly got killed for not keeping that).

So the law (i.e. keeping all of the law) was sometimes summarised as circumcision, although the circumcision requirement only played a small part.

 

[Saint Steven]

I agree. What I meant was that the Sabbath was an important law - people got stoned for not keeping it. Yet 8th-day circumcision was kept even if the 8th day fell on the Sabbath - so even more important (and Moses - arguably one of Israel's greatest leaders - nearly got killed for not keeping that).

So the law (i.e. keeping all of the law) was sometimes summarised as circumcision, although the circumcision requirement only played a small part.

I mostly agree. Thanks for the clarification.

The circumcision issue for gentiles was an entry point to Judaism. If a gentile wanted to convert to Judaism, he needed to be circumcised and then follow the law. The Jewish believers that pushed this were known as the Circumcision Group, or simply, the Circumcision.

Today, the entry point for that type of thinking is Sabbath observance. And there is a whole spectrum of beliefs in that direction. Everything from Messianic Christians to Sabbatarians to Christians that believe Sunday is the Sabbath. I don't subscribe to any of that. Yet Ken says I have a legalistic view. Go figure. lol