Did Jesus set the law aside when he opened the man’s eyes?

[John Bowen]

Thanks.

Since "man wasn't created for the sabbath" are we obligated to observe it?

Follow the sabbath but only out of love.

 

[Saint Steven]

There are many who look at the Sabbath as a bad thing. A day where you cannot do things. They carefully consider each movement to avoid doing any work. That is what the Pharisees specialized in.

What went completely over their heads is the fact that the Sabbath is supposed to be a blessing.
But many view it as a curse. All they see is what they CANNOT do and miss the whole point of it.
There are those who seem to never stop working and doing things. It is this type of person who needed to be told about not doing specific things because of their tendencies to unconsciously do them anyway.
It would be like if you caught the flu and your doctor tells you "call off work, go home, turn off your phone, don't sweep the floor, don't watch tv - just get some sleep". Those things listed were not an absolute list. He could have named dozens of types of physical exertion, but he just named a few.
So the purpose for this commandment is that we get a day to rest, recharge and have quality time with God. For many today, Sunday is the only day they ever get any spiritual activity.

So I think that any act of kindness on the Sabbath may at times trump an item on the "do not" list.

I appreciate what you are saying. This is the Sabbath principle. Rest.

However, are you claiming that Sunday is the Sabbath and that we are obligated to it?

 

[Saint Steven]

Follow the sabbath but only out of love.

Follow?
Follow voluntarily, or as an obligation to the law?

 

[Shempster]

I appreciate what you are saying. This is the Sabbath principle. Rest.

However, are you claiming that Sunday is the Sabbath and that we are obligated to it?

No, Sabbath is Saturday. But the church many years ago changed the day of rest to Sunday, so we are all in a pickle.
Saturday is the busiest shopping day of the week and many if not most of us get forced to work on Saturday. Now Sunday is the accepted day not to work. Well, anymore I think Sunday is the busier shopping day.
How disappointing.

I also see a paradox between the curse placed on man and the Sabbath.
It appears that though God allowed the curse to affect all of mankind and later gives us a one day per week reprieve from it. Fascinating.
What he wants us to see is that giving him our time and attention benefits us in far greater ways than earning money, doing hobbies, and doing busy work.
When we see how time with God and away from obligations benefits our lives, we should seek to do that all of the time.
When we are in close contact with God, we get a reprieve from the hassles of this world. So if we spend greater time doing that, we are entering what is called his "rest". And really, that is the description of heaven.

Oh, and as far as being obligated...yes, we are all obligated.
You can view it as being "obligated" to go to a great baseball game

I also believe that if your day off work is Wednesday, the God approves of your sabbath being on Wednesday. But that's just my cheap opinion.

 

[Saint Steven]

No, Sabbath is Saturday. But the church many years ago changed the day of rest to Sunday, so we are all in a pickle.
Saturday is the busiest shopping day of the week and many if not most of us get forced to work on Saturday. Now Sunday is the accepted day not to work. Well, anymore I think Sunday is the busier shopping day.

How disappointing.

All "in a pickle". lol - That's so funny. Thanks.

I disagree with the idea that the Sabbath was changed to Sunday. I know it is a poplar idea. But I don't see qualified historical evidence.

Gentiles were never obligated to the Jewish Sabbath. Gentiles weren't even allowed in the synagogues. Even Christ receiving Jews were dragged away in chains to prison. Worshipping Jesus in a synagogue on the Sabbath was out of the question.

Ask any Sabbatarian that makes the claim as to when the Sabbath was changed to Sunday. Then you can determine that it is a false statement. Most claim the Catholic Church did this, or the Pope. Ask when, or which Pope. Their answers point to the 4th century. Yet there is no evidence of a Sabbath-keeping church in the time prior. The writings of the early church verify this.

Furthermore, they cite the Council of Laodicea, Canon 29 which shows us that the Lord's Day (Sunday) was already the day of worship.

Council of Laodicea, Canon 29 - 343 AD
Christians must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord's Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ.

 

[drich0150]

Was the law put aside when Jesus created mud and opened the man's eyes on the Sabbath ?

The mattress carrying was not an isolated incident. There are several.

Jesus did not come to promote the law. The Father was prompting him to act in ways that provoked the Jewish religious leaders. The experts in the law.

The gospel writer even makes the point clear. Jesus "made the mud" (a creative act) on the Sabbath. And obviously, the Father directed him in this clearly provocative act. Why?

John 9:14
Now the day on which Jesus had made the mud and opened the man’s eyes was a Sabbath.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Compare.

Genesis 2:2-3
By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work.
3 Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

Do you not understand what the word holy means? truly, it is set apart. not just set apart, but set apart for the express purpose of God. in gen 2:2&3 God used that day for rest. in exo 20 verse 10:But the seventh day is a day of rest in honor of the Lord your God. they were commanded to rest yes, but in honor of God. which means put down the things you do during the other 6 days and give God the 7th and honor him with it.

Did giving the blind man sight bring honor to God?

bring honor to God and putting to rest what we do for the other 6 days is what the law is about, but the pharisees and law makers kept adding to the sabbath day laws to the point where simple movement was restricted. they focused so hard on the rest bit they forgot the purpose of the rest, which was to bring God honor.

here is what Jesus had to say about this:
9 Jesus went from there to their synagogue. 10 In the synagogue there was a man with a crippled hand. Some Jews there were looking for a reason to accuse Jesus of doing wrong. So they asked him, “Is it right to heal on the Sabbath day?”

11 Jesus answered, “If any of you has a sheep and it falls into a ditch on the Sabbath day, you will take the sheep and help it out of the ditch.12 Surely a man is more important than a sheep. So it is right to do good on the Sabbath day.”

13 Then Jesus said to the man with the crippled hand, “Hold out your hand.” The man held out his hand, and it became well again, the same as the other hand. 14 But the Pharisees left and made plans to kill Jesus.

To do good here is to bring honor to God. we are to put down our jobs and spend the day working for God. for some that work may look like rest for others it may mean pulling a sheep out of hole for one it mean healing the lame or blind.

 

[bling]

Jesus said this.

Matthew 12:5
Or haven’t you read in the Law that the priests on Sabbath duty in the temple desecrate the Sabbath and yet are innocent?

Everyone understood they were innocent, which means they were not forgiven of "sin" but innocent. Jesus is innocent (without sin).

 

[1213]

No work of any kind on the Sabbath.
....

Yes, but what is work. Is it everything you do, or is it just the work you do for your wage? I think it is the later. If it means all possible things person does, that would then include breathing and eating also.

 

[Saint Steven]

Do you not understand what the word holy means? truly, it is set apart. not just set apart, but set apart for the express purpose of God. in gen 2:2&3 God used that day for rest. in exo 20 verse 10:But the seventh day is a day of rest in honor of the Lord your God. they were commanded to rest yes, but in honor of God. which means put down the things you do during the other 6 days and give God the 7th and honor him with it.

Did giving the blind man sight bring honor to God?

bring honor to God and putting to rest what we do for the other 6 days is what the law is about, but the pharisees and law makers kept adding to the sabbath day laws to the point where simple movement was restricted. they focused so hard on the rest bit they forgot the purpose of the rest, which was to bring God honor.

here is what Jesus had to say about this:
9 Jesus went from there to their synagogue. 10 In the synagogue there was a man with a crippled hand. Some Jews there were looking for a reason to accuse Jesus of doing wrong. So they asked him, “Is it right to heal on the Sabbath day?”

11 Jesus answered, “If any of you has a sheep and it falls into a ditch on the Sabbath day, you will take the sheep and help it out of the ditch.12 Surely a man is more important than a sheep. So it is right to do good on the Sabbath day.”

13 Then Jesus said to the man with the crippled hand, “Hold out your hand.” The man held out his hand, and it became well again, the same as the other hand. 14 But the Pharisees left and made plans to kill Jesus.

To do good here is to bring honor to God. we are to put down our jobs and spend the day working for God. for some that work may look like rest for others it may mean pulling a sheep out of hole for one it mean healing the lame or blind.

Thanks for your detailed response. I appreciate it.

Is there evidence that any human observed the Sabbath prior to Exodus chapter 16? (I can't find any)

Are you claiming that Sunday is the Sabbath?

 

[Saint Steven]

Everyone understood they were innocent, which means they were not forgiven of "sin" but innocent. Jesus is innocent (without sin).

We all agree that Jesus did not sin.
But Jesus says that "the priests on Sabbath duty in the temple desecrate the Sabbath". So, the desecration of the Sabbath is still there, but they are declared innocent. In other words, they are breaking the law, but not charged as guilty of it.

The same is true of Jesus and his disciples. They were in fact breaking the law, but were deemed innocent.

Matthew 12:5
Or haven’t you read in the Law that the priests on Sabbath duty in the temple desecrate the Sabbath and yet are innocent?

 

[Saint Steven]

Yes, but what is work. Is it everything you do, or is it just the work you do for your wage? I think it is the later. If it means all possible things person does, that would then include breathing and eating also.

The occupation claim is a copout.
Here is the Sabbath commandment. It says: "On it you shall not do any work".

No work. Not you, not your wife, not your children, not your servants, not your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. Nobody - no work. That's it.

Exodus 20:8-11
“Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy.
9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God.
On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter,
nor your male or female servant, nor your animals,
nor any foreigner residing in your towns.
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea,
and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day.
Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

 

[bling]

We all agree that Jesus did not sin.
But Jesus says that "the priests on Sabbath duty in the temple desecrate the Sabbath". So, the desecration of the Sabbath is still there, but they are declared innocent. In other words, they are breaking the law, but not charged as guilty of it.

The same is true of Jesus and his disciples. They were in fact breaking the law, but were deemed innocent.

Matthew 12:5
Or haven’t you read in the Law that the priests on Sabbath duty in the temple desecrate the Sabbath and yet are innocent?

When Jesus talks about the "priest desecrating the Sabbath" does not mean the desecration of the Sabbath by the priest's was a sin. A surgent may cut your heart out, but he is replacing your heart with a new heart, so the cutting of your heart out was not wrong, but you are not to cut anyone's heart out.
Christ is giving a very dramatic well known example and the word "Sabbath" seems to be standing for the "Sabbath Law" which was desecrated by the priests in a very simple understanding, but they had to follow a higher "Law" and did keep the Sabbath Rest with a greater understanding of worship and what the Sabbath was for.

 

[drich0150]

Thanks for your detailed response. I appreciate it.

Is there evidence that any human observed the Sabbath prior to Exodus chapter 16? (I can't find any)

Are you claiming that Sunday is the Sabbath?

Sabbath=7
7=friday evening to sat evening.

Before exodus there were no real people. God worked with individuals hand in hand/one on one. When God is working with you one on one that is a holy Day is it not? which harkens forward to what Paul says about holy-days now. which is why christians can have their own sabbath and own holi-days. Before there was a nation of israel there was no reason for the law. The exodus marked the birth of a nation.

 

[Saint Steven]

When Jesus talks about the "priest desecrating the Sabbath" does not mean the desecration of the Sabbath by the priest's was a sin. A surgent may cut your heart out, but he is replacing your heart with a new heart, so the cutting of your heart out was not wrong, but you are not to cut anyone's heart out.
Christ is giving a very dramatic well known example and the word "Sabbath" seems to be standing for the "Sabbath Law" which was desecrated by the priests in a very simple understanding, but they had to follow a higher "Law" and did keep the Sabbath Rest with a greater understanding of worship and what the Sabbath was for.

Thanks for your comment.

How can "the desecration of the Sabbath" not be a sin? How do you define "desecrate"?

I'm seeing this a little differently. Jesus was pointing out that the law was in conflict with itself. This is well demonstrated in the scripture below. The conclusion is in verse 24.

No work was allowed on the Sabbath, however a boy was required to be circumcised on the eighth day. (Lev. 12:3) If that day fell on a Sabbath, the "work" would need to be done. Therefore, the Sabbath was broken in order to fulfill the law concerning circumcision.

Which Jesus used as an example of what he had done. Therefore, in saying this he was admitting a Sabbath violation in order to do what needed to be done. His heavenly Father had directed the "work" be done on the Sabbath. And in fact the heavenly Father had done, or partnered in, the "work" done on the Sabbath. What should we concluded if the law was not being set aside?

John 7:23-24
Now if a boy can be circumcised on the Sabbath so that
the law of Moses may not be broken, why are you angry with me
for healing a man’s whole body on the Sabbath?
24 Stop judging by mere appearances, but instead judge correctly.”

 

[Saint Steven]

Sabbath=7
7=friday evening to sat evening.

Before exodus there were no real people. God worked with individuals hand in hand/one on one. When God is working with you one on one that is a holy Day is it not? which harkens forward to what Paul says about holy-days now. which is why christians can have their own sabbath and own holi-days. Before there was a nation of israel there was no reason for the law. The exodus marked the birth of a nation.

Before exodus there were no real people? Oh my.
I can think of several. lol

You are correct about the Sabbath being Friday at sundown until Saturday at sundown. (my words) However, I don't believe that Christians are obligated to Sabbath law.

Romans 14:5
One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind.

 

[Ron Gurley]

no

 

[Saint Steven]

no

Why not?

Exodus 20:8-11
“Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy.
9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God.
On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter,
nor your male or female servant, nor your animals,
nor any foreigner residing in your towns.
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea,
and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day.
Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

 

[Doctor.Sphinx]

How can "the desecration of the Sabbath" not be a sin? How do you define "desecrate"?

I'm seeing this a little differently. Jesus was pointing out that the law was in conflict with itself. This is well demonstrated in the scripture below. The conclusion is in verse 24.

No work was allowed on the Sabbath, however a boy was required to be circumcised on the eighth day. (Lev. 12:3) If that day fell on a Sabbath, the "work" would need to be done. Therefore, the Sabbath was broken in order to fulfill the law concerning circumcision.

As @bling already commented, the purpose of the rest on the Sabbath was to focus on worship of God. The priests who "desecrated" the Sabbath by "working" were not breaking it, as they were worshipping God. Circumcising was an act of obedience and therefore an act of worship, so was not prohibited on the Sabbath.

Even an act of good, such as rescuing an animal, was not seen by the Pharisees as breaking the Sabbath. How much more then the healing of a man?

 

[Saint Steven]

As @bling already commented, the purpose of the rest on the Sabbath was to focus on worship of God. The priests who "desecrated" the Sabbath by "working" were not breaking it, as they were worshipping God. Circumcising was an act of obedience and therefore an act of worship, so was not prohibited on the Sabbath.

Even an act of good, such as rescuing an animal, was not seen by the Pharisees as breaking the Sabbath. How much more then the healing of a man?

Thanks for you comment. But this is a problem.

Jesus said the priests were desecrating the Sabbath, yet were innocent. How can you desecrate something without harming it? Same goes for circumcision on the Sabbath. Jesus would not have made a point of it if there was no issue. Again, Jesus was showing us that the law is in conflict with itself.

 

[Ron Gurley]

Matthew 5:17
“Do not think that I came to abolish the (Mosaic) Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.

Luke 24:44...post-resurrection Jesus to His closest followers
Now He said to them,
“These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you,
that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.”

Luke 6:5
And He was saying to them, “The Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.”