Two Possibilities in Explaining Christ's Divine Behavior & His Limited Human Behavior.

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I think the problem is that you can't just accept the fact that Jesus is the only "Person", that can be worshipped.

Right, I cannot accept Jesus has a human soul or human spirit and
we can worship that in addition to Him being God because Jesus said,
"Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve." (Luke 4:8).

A human soul and human spirit is not God just because it is combined with God.

You said:
But that is what the union is about! :) You can't seem to accept God did put His stamp on Jesus, truly one of us, but truly God too.

You said it yourself about the DNA. This was a miracle by the Holy Spirit! So therefore, He did not have lust or bad thoughts-stuff of the old sinful nature passed on from Adam, that comes out of a evil unbelieving heart- that we all have. Adam didn't have a sin nature either when he was created, but he sinned when tested- cause he wasn't God. :idea: We all would of made the same mistake as Adam. And he had a soul, just like Jesus. Catholic doctrine says, Mary was sinless because of this issue-I believe. But that doesn't have to be an issue-because it was a miracle, and Mary called Jesus her Savior too.

Because of this-and He was God, He could not sin, because His "wanter", was different than ours-like ours will be when we get our new spiritual body, that goes along with our already born again soul. Put the Holy Spirit never leaving us, and we will never sin, or want to sin for eternity! :amen:

Some people believe He had the ability to sin, or otherwise it would not be a real test. But He was still temped in all ways- just like us. The Scriptures say this, so who are we to say it wasn't real, or real hard? It was cause we got the inside scoop. :)

Remember, this is the first time this has ever happened-and won't happen again, so being a man would of had to of been a big shock! :eek: He experienced everything as we did, and was temped way more than any man ever- by Satan himself! Remember that. He even sweated blood! :wave: To top it off, He didn't do anything wrong!

The whole ball of wax is He had to be 100% man, with a soul- and I think the Scriptures make it clear He did have a soul- to redeem the human race. Part just don't cut it.

There comes a time when we get where we can't quite explain something, or understand something. That is when we have faith, and this is when we get a multitude of counselors-Creeds hammered out, brothers on this forum, and just trust that maybe I don't have it right?

Tests for the Son of God were to show His divinity in that He was God and that He was not capable of sinning.

James 1:13 says God cannot be tempted to sin.
Is Jesus God, right?
He sure is.
So that means Jesus cannot be tempted.
But yet, folks want to say that He can be tempted to sin.
In order to sin, you first need to have lust or wrong desire (See James 1:14-15).
Do you believe Jesus had lust or wrong desire and yet He did not simply act on that?
If so, then how could He be our spotless Lamb by having lust?
1 John 2:16 says lust is not of the Father.
Jesus says He is one with the Father.
So this means Jesus did not have lust, too.
 
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I would say so too, like when it says :


Mat 24:36
But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Mar 13:32
But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

(I think maybe the Son knows NOW...)

Phl 2:5
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

("mind" here is not nous, but phroneo, more like 'opinion'; else I would argue that a human could have the same kind of mind as Christ)

Phl 2:6
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Phl 2:7
But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Phl 2:8
And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

It sounds like you are agreeing with me here.
If that is so.... then.... thank you.
 
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I would agree with you that many alleged alien encounters are probably a matter of demonology; but that doesn't make comic book aliens like Martian Manhunter, Superman and Supergirl to blame for the demonic encounters.

Jesus said He was "not of this world".

As to your other list of points, I share some of them:

I also do not believe in OSAS (Which is popular in Christendom).
Me too.

I also do not believe in Eternal Torment (Which is popular in Christendom).
I am leaning heavily that way also.

I believe that we are saved by both God's grace + works (Which goes against popular Christiendom).

No, I believe that we are saved by grace through faith; to call faith "a work" would be a stretch although once Jesus says "This is the work of God, that you believe in the one He has sent".
Believe there is just verb form of faith, and I would not call it "a work" anymore than I would say that Jesus was technically an alien -- but He flat out said "ye are of this world, I am not of this world".

I also believe house churches (of believers only) is the model of how we are to gather (Which goes against popular Christendom).

No opinion on that.

I also believe in New Testament Pacifism (Which goes against popular Christendom).

Not a pacifist.

I also believe Jesus made unfermented wine (non-intoxicating wine) (Which goes against popular Christendom).


I believe He made fermented wine, but we use unfermented grape juice in Methodist church.

I also believe the KJV is the divinely inspired Word of God (Which goes against popular Christendom).

I like KJV, but surely compare other versions - many of whom employ earlier manuscripts than KJV translators had available - though earlier is not necessarily more correct.

Jesus is not an alien like from some other planet. He actually has the same physical flesh and blood we have that comes from Adam.

As for your other points: I am glad we share some of them. I will have to address some of them in other threads as time arises and try to remember to notify you.

May God bless you.

Side Note:

Oh, and when I say that we are saved by Faith + Works, I meant to say we are saved by God directed works done through us and not works of our own effort after we are saved by God's grace. I used to also believe at one time that we were saved by Faith - Works. But in time, I realized that this is simply giving people an excuse to say that they can sin and still be saved or to live life as they please instead of following Jesus. But that is another topic for another thread and time, my friend.

In any event, please be well in the Lord.
 
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You're welcome, I am agreeing that Jesus limited His Omniscience while incarnated

I am glad. Jesus being limited in knowledge is a parallel of Adam having limited knowledge. So Jesus is restoring us back to the Garden before the Fall. Jesus who is the second man (or Last Adam) is the Lord from heaven (See Romans 5 and 1 Corinthians 15).
 
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redleghunter

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However, the contradictions are too numerous if one holds to the belief that Jesus had a human soul and a human spirit, though.

Contradiction #1. Jesus Himself said that we are to worship God alone. A human soul and a human spirit mixed up in the body of Jesus along with His eternal divine soul as the second person of the Godhead or the Trinity would conflict with that.

Contradiction #2. Jesus would technically not be the everlasting ruler from Micah 5:2 if Jesus came into being as a new creation by taking on a new human soul and a new human spirit.

Contradiction #3. Jesus could not be holy, undefiled, and separate from sinners as Hebrews 7:26 says if he truly had a human nature with the capacity to sin.

Contradiction #4. John 1:14 says the Word was made flesh, 1 John 4:2 says Jesus came in the flesh, and 1 Timothy 3:16 says God was manifest in the flesh. These things cannot be if it was also a human soul and human spirit mixed up in there somewhere. It would contradict those verses.

Contradiction #5. Jesus says, I and my Father are one (John 10:30). Yet, the Scriptures say that lust is not of the Father (1 John 2:16). This means Jesus does not have lust within Him because He is one with the Father. You cannot sin unless you have lust (See James 1:14-15). So Christians who say Jesus had a human nature who could have potentially sinned (But didn't) are not speaking in light of the whole of Scripture and they are just repeating what they have been told or holding onto what is popular.



I would like that, too. But it would have to be unsweetened ice tea, my friend. I have put away sugar and heavy doses of carbs (like breads, potatoes, rice, etc) as a way of life over the past few months (And I have lost a lot of weight and feel great because of it).



I am always open to change in my beliefs. But there would have to be Scripture to resolve the contradictions I have presented. There would also have to be more Scripture that would sound more convincing that Jesus took on a human soul or human body. I just don't get the impression in God's Word that He did that. I read John 17, and we hear Jesus talk about a glory that He once shared with God the Father before the creation. This glory could be the full unhindered Omniscience He had as the Holy Son of God. In Philippians 2, we see about how Jesus took on the form of a servant. Meaning, He did everything the Father told Him to do. He was humble and low and it was an example of how we are to be humble and low. That Jesus was obedient unto death. He chose this mission in being low and He did not make an open show of His powers. This to me also suggests that Jesus suppressed His divine attribute of Omniscience. Instead of accessing His divine attribute of Omniscience fully, He humbled himself and obeyed the Father. He did not allow Himself to know about the day of His return.



Maybe that is the issue? The fact that is all you have ever known in it being fact? Never questioning it. Just accepting it always. Never double checking it with Scripture. I hope I am wrong, and that is not the case, my friend.



Sometimes God leads us to Him by imperfect means or ways of thinking. What I have come to know early on in my faith is not the same as I believe now. I have matured and grown in my faith since the very beginning.

Anyways, I see the reference to Jesus being the "Son of Man" as the Living Word humbling himself by suppressing His divine attribute of Omniscience and taking on a human flesh and blood body. Acts of the Apostles 20:28 says, "...feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood." This is saying that it is God's blood. Now, I am not saying that the blood is literally divine. I am saying that the blood is God's blood because the owner of the blood of the body of Jesus was the Living Word (Who is God). If Jesus was also a human soul and a human spirit then this would not be God's blood in reference to ownership.



The statement in Luke 22:39-42 is talking about how the Living Word spoke while He suppressed His divine attribute of Omniscience. This to me is not proof that He was talking from some human side of himself because He has a soul or a human spirit. I mean, how does the Son of God choose to be? Is He sometimes human and sometimes God in the way that He behaved and spoke? I would say that Jesus always spoke and acted as God because He was God 100% of the time and He never stopped being God. For Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever!!!

1 John 4:2 says Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.
It's not.... the flesh came and He is now Jesus Christ.
I think I already noted the Incarnation resolves these issues. There is no mixing of natures but two natures one fully human and one fully God but One Person.
 
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I would agree with you that many alleged alien encounters are probably a matter of demonology; but that doesn't make comic book aliens like Martian Manhunter, Superman and Supergirl to blame for the demonic encounters.

Jesus said He was "not of this world".

As to your other list of points, I share some of them:

I also do not believe in OSAS (Which is popular in Christendom).
Me too.

I also do not believe in Eternal Torment (Which is popular in Christendom).
I am leaning heavily that way also.

I believe that we are saved by both God's grace + works (Which goes against popular Christiendom).

No, I believe that we are saved by grace through faith; to call faith "a work" would be a stretch although once Jesus says "This is the work of God, that you believe in the one He has sent".
Believe there is just verb form of faith, and I would not call it "a work" anymore than I would say that Jesus was technically an alien -- but He flat out said "ye are of this world, I am not of this world".

I also believe house churches (of believers only) is the model of how we are to gather (Which goes against popular Christendom).

No opinion on that.

I also believe in New Testament Pacifism (Which goes against popular Christendom).

Not a pacifist.

I also believe Jesus made unfermented wine (non-intoxicating wine) (Which goes against popular Christendom).


I believe He made fermented wine, but we use unfermented grape juice in Methodist church.

I also believe the KJV is the divinely inspired Word of God (Which goes against popular Christendom).

I like KJV, but surely compare other versions - many of whom employ earlier manuscripts than KJV translators had available - though earlier is not necessarily more correct.

Okay. While I normally do not like to go off topic, I will give you my personal list of Scripture verses for why I believe we are saved by Grace + Works (Because it is so near and dear to my heart). For me it was a revelation when I read the verses below all together. For...

After we are saved by God's grace,
God’s works (done through us) are also required as a part of the Salvation Process:


(Here are a List of Verses):


“Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24).

"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.” (James 2:17-18).

"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).

"If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, "(1 Timothy 6:3-4).

"...God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble." (James 4:6).

"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? (Romans 6:1-2).

"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." (Hebrews 5:9).

"Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14).

“...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth” (2 Thessalonians 2:13).

“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:13).

"If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha." (1 Corinthians 16:22).

"If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15).

“If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.” (John 15:10).

"And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me." (Matthew 10:38).

”If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? (Matthew 16:24-26).

"...No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:62).

“Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.” (Matthew 5:8).

"Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls." (James 1:21).

"But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God." (Romans 2:8-11).

”And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.” (Revelation 22:12-15).

"For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." (John 3:20).

“For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.” (Romans 11:21-22).

"...but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matthew 19:17).

“Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” (Philippians 2:12).

“...And having become servants of God, ye have your fruit unto holiness and the end, everlasting life.” (Romans 6:22).

”Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.” (Matthew 25:34-40).

“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.” (Matthew 25:41-46).

”His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.” (Matthew 25:21).

”And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 25:30).

”Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation [i.e. as the people of Israel did when they rebelled against him in the desert.”] (Hebrews 3:12-15) (Note: The explanation on verse 15 in brackets is taken from the Living Bible Translation (TLB)).

”Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)” (Hebrews 3:10-11).

”Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. (Hebrews 4:11).

“In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:10).

“He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God” (John 8:47).


Verses on the Error of Christians saying they cannot walk uprightly:

Jesus says,

"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven" (Matthew 5:16).

Jesus also says,

"You give glory to my Father when you produce a lot of fruit and therefore show that you are my disciples." (John 15:8 GW).

And Peter says,

"Be careful to live properly among your unbelieving neighbors. Then even if they accuse you of doing wrong, they will see your honorable behavior, and they will give honor to God when he judges the world." (1 Peter 2:12 NLT).

Paul says,

"That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;" (Philippians 2:15).


Side Note:

Please take note that there are other believers (Who are not Catholics) who believe that we are saved by God's grace + works. David Servant is one believer who is very knowledgable in God's Word (who believes that way, too).

Here is a good sermon by him.


Here is his YouTube Channel.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCR1Zz60EqaivXqR6buTL2vQ?&ab_channel=DavidServant
 
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redleghunter

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No it does not resolve Micah 5:2. It says this ruler (Who is Jesus) is from everlasting. If Jesus fully came into existence in the Incarnation by taking on a human soul and human spirit, then He technically would not be from everlasting anymore. If it is talking about the Logos, then Jesus would need to get rid of His physical flesh and blood body. But we know that cannot happen because Scripture says this:

"...he ever liveth to make intercession for them." (Hebrews 7:25).

"I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore,..." (Revelation 1:18).
The Divine Logos is everlasting. He became Jesus of Nazareth.

What does the Incarnation mean to you?
 
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oldrunner

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Right, I cannot accept Jesus has a human soul or human spirit and
we can worship that in addition to Him being God because Jesus said,
"Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve." (Luke 4:8).

A human soul and human spirit is not God just because it is combined with God.



Tests for the Son of God were to show His divinity in that He was God and that He was not capable of sinning.

James 1:13 says God cannot be tempted to sin.
Is Jesus God, right?
He sure is.
So that means Jesus cannot be tempted.
But yet, folks want to say that He can be tempted to sin.
In order to sin, you first need to have lust or wrong desire (See James 1:14-15).
Do you believe Jesus had lust or wrong desire and yet He did not simply act on that?
If so, then how could He be our spotless Lamb by having lust?
1 John 2:16 says lust is not of the Father.
Jesus says He is one with the Father.
So this means Jesus did not have lust, too.

But Jesus was tempted, but without sin. That is why Satan tempted Him. He passed the test as a man. :) Satan was trying to get Jesus to worship Him, or turn stones into bread, or jump off the Temple. He was basically saying-show me something "if" you are the Son of God! Trying to get Jesus to use His Divine powers, or get mad.

That is why He said He could of prayed to the Father and got 12 legions of angels when He was arrested- but He didn't. (Mat. 26:53) He was fulfilling Scripture, being the Lamb led to the slaughter. And He had to do it as a man.

I think I agreed with you that Jesus would never want to sin because He had no sin nature- if you re-read that. But that don't mean the test was not genuine, cause the Scripture says it was.

It seems I've had the same arguments with JWs that sound a lot like this? Either way, I find it hard to follow your logic. :scratch: I guess we'll just have to disagree on this point. God will sort it all out one day. :)
 
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DamianWarS

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I am a believer in Jesus Christ. I am a Christian. I believe in the Trinity and I believe Jesus died and was risen again on my behalf for salvation through faith by God's Word (the Bible) alone. I believe Jesus had a real physical flesh and blood body (Whose shed blood washed away my sins). However, there is one thing (besides OSAS) I have discovered that disturbs me greatly among my own brethren. What has troubled me is that my fellow fellow Christians reject Apollinarism. This is the belief that Jesus had one divine nature and or one divine mind, will, or soul. They somehow oddly reject this truth.

Why do I believe this? Was it because of some creed or church told me to believe this way? No. Most surely not. It is purely based on what I have come to know the Scriptures say and by logic, and knowing the love of God, and His good ways. I believe many of my fellow brothers and sisters reject this truth in Scripture because of what they have been taught by others and they did not search the Scriptures to see whether these things be so or not for themselves (in prayer and careful study).

So here are the verses for you to consider:

#1. Hebrews 7:26 - "For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;"

Jesus is holy, harmless, undefiled, and separate from sinners. He was made higher than the heavens. He became us (in the fact that he had a flesh and blood body), but he was holy. A person or being who is truly holy, harmless, undefiled and separate from sinners does not have the capacity to sin. To say that Jesus had a human nature is to say that he had the ability to do evil. This means that in order to do evil or sin, one must have lusts or bad desires within them in order to carry out or act upon those wrong desires or lusts. Yet, the Bible says he was holy, undefiled and separate from sinners.​

#2. 1 John 2:16 - "For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world."

This verse states that the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Jesus said, "I and my Father are one." (John 10:30).

So if Jesus is truly one with the Father (and He is), then Jesus cannot also have any lusts of the flesh, or lusts of the eyes, or the pride of life. These things are of the world. In fact, the devil tried to offer Jesus the kingdoms of this world, but He refused his offer.​

#3. Micah 5:2 - "But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting."

This is a Messianic prophecy that talks about how Jesus will be a ruler over Israel one day. It says that the origin of this ruler (Jesus) is from of old, from everlasting. How does this refute the popular idea in Christianity that Jesus had a human nature, soul, or spirit? Because to say that Jesus has a human nature means that He is a newly created being that did not exist before the Incarnation. He would not have technically existed from everlasting if he joined with a newly created human counterpart in the Incarnation. The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us. His origins are from everlasting in the fact that He is the eternal Living Word (or the Word of God as Revelation says). Jesus. He always existed.​

#4. 1 John 4:2 - "Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God."

It's a pretty fair conclusion to make that Jesus was unlike us. He was unique. This verse is not saying that he was like us. This verse does not say after he came into the flesh he became known as the man called, Jesus Christ. That is not what we are to confess. We are to confess that Jesus Christ is COME in the flesh. What this verse is suggesting (like other verses) is that Jesus Christ has always existed. Jesus Christ is COME (entered) into the flesh or body of a man. In fact, Jesus was laughed at when he said he knew Abraham. But Jesus said this to them, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am" (John 8:58). After the crowd heard this: The crowd went ape crazy and they picked up stones to throw at him. In other words, Jesus is saying He has always existed. He did not come down into a newly created human soul or spirit and take on a human nature so as to potentially sin. That wouldn't make any sense.​

#5. 1 Peter 2:24 - "Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed."

Many believe that the atonement is denied if one does not believe Jesus had a human nature. But having a human soul or human spirit is not a requirement in order for God to redeem us of our sins. How so? Peter says that Jesus took on our sins in his body on the cross. So the human spirit and or human soul is not necessary for our salvation. Jesus's blood is what washes away our sins and not the soul or some spirit. For a high price was paid for our sins, and that was with Christ's death.​

#6. 1 Timothy 3:16 - "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."

This verse says that God was manifest in the flesh. It does not say God was manifest through a human soul or human spirit along with that flesh. God was manifest in the flesh. However, if Jesus took on a human soul, and human spirit, it really wouldn't be God manifesting in the flesh because He would be like every other believer who has God living inside of them. Jesus was unique and different from us. Jesus was literally GOD. He was manifest in the flesh.​

#7. John 14:30 - "Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me."

Jesus is claiming that the devil has nothing inside of him. Meaning, Jesus does not have any of the lusts of the devil residing within himself (Which would be present in a normal corrupt human nature).

Jesus says to certain Jews, "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. " (John 8:44).

So Jesus is describing something of his opponents that they do, which does not apply to Him.

For Jesus says, "If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me." (John 8:42).

So lusts do not reside in Jesus. So the false belief that Jesus could have sinned because he had a human nature does not work.

14 "But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death." (James 1:14-15).​

Apollinarism reflects a time when the church was wrestling with who Jesus was. They were trying to figure it out and it wasn't until Chalcedon (451) that it was articulated (not fully embraced) because of this most of us are Chalcedonian Christians and it was considered an extension of Nicene faith. But before Chalcedon there was a lot of thinking out loud and Apollinaris was certainly a part of this process so was Nestorius and so was Cyril of Alexandria... they all got it wrong but not all were considered heretical.

The language used with Apollinaris reflects a wrestling with Jesus being God and Jesus being man. Apollinaris could not reconcile the man Jesus and demanded that in order for us to be sanctified Jesus must be a unity and he rejected the notion that the Son was conjoined with man... and this is the language problem. Apollinaris's view was the flesh cannot act alone and was dependant upon another substance to be animated. Thus during the incarnation the divine was fused with the flesh and the divine fills the role of spirit and mind in a human.

This means that in this presentation of Christ there is no conflict of wills, no ability to sin or no ability to be corrupted or truly experience what a human experience outside the physical but even then the physical senses are still experienced only by the divine. The position is argued by saying if the whole of Adem fell, then the redeemer must be united to the whole of the nature of Adam in order to redeem him wholey. If Jesus does not have the ability to fully participate in humanity then humanity always has an excuse of sinning with the mind which is so unredeemable that even Jesus could not unite with it.

So even though the dual nature of Christ was not yet conceived or too difficult to embrace during the time of Apollinaris his Christology has a flawed product of salvation where humanity and the divine never fully connect. The early church looked at Christology starting from Jesus's divinity then tried to reconcile his humanity, for Apollinaris he could only except the flesh but nothing else. This wrestling of the nature of Jesus is laudable but bishops were stubborn and arrogant and the church was ruthless quick to sever any part that threatened it's ways. It is quoted that the Emperor at the time, Julian, "knew that no wild beasts were so hostile to men as were the Christians to one another." Perhaps Apollinaris could have been treated better but he had the same character flaws as the other bishops and arguments were often to the death... or for the church deemed a heretic.

Isn't it something remarkable to know the Jesus took not just human flesh but a human nature as well showing that God may interact and heal the human wholy? With Apollinarism what is left is still an absent God that puts on humanity like a costume pretending to be us... does he pretend to save us as well?
 
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discipler7

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I am a believer in Jesus Christ. ...

What has troubled me is that my fellow fellow Christians reject Apollinarism. This is the belief that Jesus had one divine nature and or one divine mind, will, or soul. They somehow oddly reject this truth.
What will you be doing if/when you meet the Lord Jesus Christ at His 2nd Coming to earth.? Do you really know Jesus.?

MATTHEW.7:21-23 = I Never Knew You
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

JOHN.20:28-29 = 28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

29 Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
 
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Albion

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Actually, the Hypostatic Union is more in line with making Christ into a hybrid - IMO.
For it says that Jesus is an amalgam of God and man 100%.
That is absolutely NOT what is meant by the Hypostatic Union, Jason.
 
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The Divine Logos is everlasting. He became Jesus of Nazareth.

Yes, the divine Logos is everlasting. This is true. But you are saying that Jesus has a human soul and or human spirit in the Incarnation. This would mean that Jesus would be a uniquely new being within the universe and He would technically not be from everlasting. Unless you believe Jesus sheds His Earthly body, Micah 5:2 is saying that Jesus is everlasting. This is regardless of what time Jesus existed. Jesus has always existed. Jesus Christ is come in the flesh (1 John 4:2).

You said:
What does the Incarnation mean to you?

I already said that I believe that Jesus (Who has always existed) took on a human flesh and blood body that was from Adam. That is the Incarnation.

Jesus did not take on a blank human soul, and or human spirit or a newly created human soul that fits his own divine soul.
 
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Jesus never gave us the indication that he had two spirits or that he combined with another human spirit or soul. Jesus said that He came down from Heaven (John 6:38). Jesus did not say, I came down from Heaven and joined with this man's soul. The Scriptures also say that the Messiah (Jesus) is from everlasting (Micah 5:2). This would be a contradiction if the Messiah was also had to wait in taking on a human spirit and soul, too (So as to become and amalgam or one with it). Jesus said to the Pharisees in John 8 that before Abraham was born, He was the " I AM " from Exodus chapter 3. Jesus did not let us know he took on a human spirit in addition to him being the great " I AM ." Scripture also says that the fulness of the Godhead dwelled within him bodily. Scripture does not say that the fulness of the Godhead dwelled within him body and soul.
 
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Nor did I suggest that it does. ;)

However, some believers have claim that the atonement is denied if a believer denies that Christ had a human soul or human nature. In fact, I do not even technically believe in Apollinarism because it also states Jesus had a human soul. My belief is only similar to Apollinarism in the fact that it claims that Jesus had one nature (Which is divine).
 
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That is absolutely NOT what is meant by the Hypostatic Union, Jason.

Desiring God says,

Jesus has two complete natures: one fully human and one fully divine. What the doctrine of the hypostatic union teaches is that these two natures are united in one person in the God-man. Jesus is not two persons. He is one person. The hypostatic union is the joining (mysterious though it be) of the divine and the human in the one person of Jesus.

Got Questions says,

The hypostatic union is the term used to describe how God the Son, Jesus Christ, took on a human nature, yet remained fully God at the same time. Jesus always had been God (John 8:58, 10:30), but at the incarnation Jesus became a human being (John 1:14). The addition of the human nature to the divine nature is Jesus, the God-man. This is the hypostatic union, Jesus Christ, one Person, fully God and fully man. Jesus' two natures, human and divine, are inseparable. Jesus will forever be the God-man, fully God and fully human, two distinct natures in one Person.

Blue Letter Bible says,

The hypostatic union can be defined as God the Son, the Second Person of the Trinity, came to earth and took human nature upon himself. Thus Jesus was fully God and fully human. He will remain this way forever.

Orthodox Wiki says,

Hypostatic union (from the Greek: ὑπόστασις, "hypostasis," translated reality or person) [1] is a term in Christian theology used to describe the Incarnation expressing the revealed truth that in Christ one person subsists in two natures, the Divine and the human.
 
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What will you be doing if/when you meet the Lord Jesus Christ at His 2nd Coming to earth.? Do you really know Jesus.?

MATTHEW.7:21-23 = I Never Knew You
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

JOHN.20:28-29 = 28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

29 Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

Well, first, I believe Jesus is God and that He had a human flesh and blood body.
So I am not sure why you quoted John 20:28. I have used that verse many times to show that Jesus is God.

Second, by your quoting of Matthew 7:21-23, (IMO) you are suggesting I do not believe that holiness is not a requirement for believers as a part of the salvation process. Nothing could be further from the truth (if that is what you are suggesting). I believe we are saved by God's grace + Sanctification. Granted, you may have had another reason for quoting this passage, but that is what I believe it says. For I believe it is saying how we must live holy as a part of being in Christ's kingdom. So your quoting of Matthew 7:21-23 is just a baseless accusation, friend (if that is what you meant by quoting that passage).
 
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Apollinarism reflects a time when the church was wrestling with who Jesus was. They were trying to figure it out and it wasn't until Chalcedon (451) that it was articulated (not fully embraced) because of this most of us are Chalcedonian Christians and it was considered an extension of Nicene faith. But before Chalcedon there was a lot of thinking out loud and Apollinaris was certainly a part of this process so was Nestorius and so was Cyril of Alexandria... they all got it wrong but not all were considered heretical.

The language used with Apollinaris reflects a wrestling with Jesus being God and Jesus being man (Please take note that I updated the OP). Apollinaris could not reconcile the man Jesus and demanded that in order for us to be sanctified Jesus must be a unity and he rejected the notion that the Son was conjoined with man... and this is the language problem. Apollinaris's view was the flesh cannot act alone and was dependant upon another substance to be animated. Thus during the incarnation the divine was fused with the flesh and the divine fills the role of spirit and mind in a human.

This means that in this presentation of Christ there is no conflict of wills, no ability to sin or no ability to be corrupted or truly experience what a human experience outside the physical but even then the physical senses are still experienced only by the divine. The position is argued by saying if the whole of Adem fell, then the redeemer must be united to the whole of the nature of Adam in order to redeem him wholey. If Jesus does not have the ability to fully participate in humanity then humanity always has an excuse of sinning with the mind which is so unredeemable that even Jesus could not unite with it.

So even though the dual nature of Christ was not yet conceived or too difficult to embrace during the time of Apollinaris his Christology has a flawed product of salvation where humanity and the divine never fully connect. The early church looked at Christology starting from Jesus's divinity then tried to reconcile his humanity, for Apollinaris he could only except the flesh but nothing else. This wrestling of the nature of Jesus is laudable but bishops were stubborn and arrogant and the church was ruthless quick to sever any part that threatened it's ways. It is quoted that the Emperor at the time, Julian, "knew that no wild beasts were so hostile to men as were the Christians to one another." Perhaps Apollinaris could have been treated better but he had the same character flaws as the other bishops and arguments were often to the death... or for the church deemed a heretic.

Isn't it something remarkable to know the Jesus took not just human flesh but a human nature as well showing that God may interact and heal the human wholy? With Apollinarism what is left is still an absent God that puts on humanity like a costume pretending to be us... does he pretend to save us as well?

Technically, I do not believe in Apollinarism because like the Hypostatic Union, it ALSO teaches that Christ had a human soul. The part I believe in Apollinarism is the part that says Jesus has only one nature (Which is divine). But ultimately I would not say I believe in Apollinarism entirely. Therefore, I technically really do not believe in it.

There really is no Theological name for what I believe in regards to Christ's nature. He simply did not have a human soul but only a divine soul. Before the creation of this world, I believe Jesus had limited His divine attribute of Omniscience. For Jesus said in John 17 that he desired to share in the glory He once had with the Father before the creation. Then when Mary was born, Jesus was born into the flesh and blood body of a man (in the genealogical line of Adam). This was only an empty body that Jesus controls with His divine soul.

Also, I do not put much stock in man made History, either. People can re-write History to make themselves look good (and we would be none the wiser). I believe in God's Word. That is what I can trust. So the argument should be based upon God's Word to form our belief about the nature of Christ and not some man made history in regards to Him.
 
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