Two Possibilities in Explaining Christ's Divine Behavior & His Limited Human Behavior.

[Bible Highlighter]

Important Note:​

I am a believer in Jesus Christ. I am a Christian. I believe in the Trinity and I believe Jesus died and was risen again on my behalf for salvation through faith by God's Word (the Bible) alone. I believe Jesus had a real physical flesh and blood body (Whose shed blood washed away my sins). I also want to say that we as Christians do look through a glass darkly and Scripture is not exactly clear on certain things. This is why I believe there are:

Two Possibilities in Explaining Christ's Divine Behavior & His Limited Human Behavior:

I believe the Hypostatic Union is one possibility to explain Jesus's behavior being both divine at times and human at other times. The best two verses for support of this belief is Colossians 1:19 and Colossians 2:9. Another possibility (that I think is more likely) is that Jesus only had one divine nature and or one divine mind, will, or soul (and no created "human soul / human mind").

Why do I believe this?

Well, here are the verses for you to consider (Which is my preferred explanation on understanding Christ's divine and human behavior expressed in Scripture):

#1. Hebrews 7:26 - "For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;"

Jesus is holy, harmless, undefiled, and separate from sinners. He was made higher than the heavens. He became us (in the fact that he had a flesh and blood body), but he was holy. A person or being who is truly holy, harmless, undefiled and separate from sinners does not have the capacity to sin. Some say that Jesus had a human nature whereby He had the ability to potentially do evil. This means that in order to do evil or sin, one must have lusts or bad desires within them in order to carry out or act upon those wrong desires or lusts. Yet, the Bible says he was holy, undefiled and separate from sinners.​

#2. 1 John 2:16 - "For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world."

This verse states that the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Jesus said, "I and my Father are one." (John 10:30).

So if Jesus is truly one with the Father (and He is), then Jesus cannot also have any lusts of the flesh, or lusts of the eyes, or the pride of life. These things are of the world. In fact, the devil tried to offer Jesus the kingdoms of this world, but He refused his offer.​

#3. Micah 5:2 - "But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting."

This is a Messianic prophecy that talks about how Jesus will be a ruler over Israel one day. It says that the origin of this ruler (Jesus) is from of old, from everlasting. Alternatively however if Jesus had a human soul or human mind, it suggests that Jesus was a newly created being that did not exist before the Incarnation. He would not have technically existed from everlasting if he joined with a newly created human counterpart in the Incarnation. The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us. His origins are from everlasting in the fact that He is the eternal Living Word (or the Word of God as Revelation says). Jesus. He always existed. This presents a problem for Hypostatic Union (HU), but it does not mean that the HU is not true, though.​

#4. 1 John 4:2 - "Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God."

It's a pretty fair conclusion to make that Jesus was unlike us. He was unique. This verse is not saying that he was like us. This verse does not say after he came into the flesh he became known as the man called, Jesus Christ. That is not what we are to confess. We are to confess that Jesus Christ is COME in the flesh. What this verse is suggesting (like other verses) is that Jesus Christ has always existed. Jesus Christ is COME (entered) into the flesh or body of a man. In fact, Jesus was laughed at when he said he knew Abraham. But Jesus said this to them, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am" (John 8:58). After the crowd heard this: The crowd went ape crazy and they picked up stones to throw at him. In other words, Jesus is saying He has always existed. He did not come down into a newly created human soul or spirit and take on a human nature so as to potentially sin. That wouldn't make any sense. For me this is a really strong point for this position; But again, we need to be objective and look at all possibilities to explain why Jesus behaved in both a divine way and in a limited human way.
​

#5. 1 Peter 2:24 - "Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed."

Many believe that the atonement is denied if one does not believe Jesus had a human nature. But having a human soul or human spirit is not a requirement in order for God to redeem us of our sins. How so? Peter says that Jesus took on our sins in his body on the cross. So the human spirit and or human soul is not necessary for our salvation. Jesus's blood is what washes away our sins and not the soul or some spirit. For a high price was paid for our sins, and that was with Christ's death.​

#6. 1 Timothy 3:16 - "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."

This verse says that God was manifest in the flesh. It does not say God was manifest through a human soul or human spirit along with that flesh. God was manifest in the flesh. However, if Jesus took on a human soul, and human spirit, it really wouldn't be God manifesting in the flesh (according to this verse) because He would be like every other believer who has God living inside of them. Jesus was unique and different from us. Jesus was literally GOD. He was manifest in the flesh. Again. This is another strong point for this position. But Colossians 1:19, and Colossians 2:9 still fit best with the explanation of the Hypostatic Union.​

#7. John 14:30 - "Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me."

Jesus is claiming that the devil has nothing inside of him. Meaning, Jesus does not have any of the lusts of the devil residing within himself (Which would be present in a normal corrupt human nature).

Jesus says to certain Jews, "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. " (John 8:44).

So Jesus is describing something of his opponents that they do, which does not apply to Him.

For Jesus says, "If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me." (John 8:42).

So lusts do not reside in Jesus. So the false belief that Jesus could have sinned because he had a human nature does not work.

14 "But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death." (James 1:14-15).
​

#8. Jesus said:
"For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me." (John 6:38).

Now, stop and think about this for a moment. If Jesus said He came down from Heaven, then that means He was either:

(a) He was not telling the entire truth because He was referring to some divine portion of Himself (or):

(b) He was telling the entire truth and He actually did come down from Heaven and He was not created in the Incarnation as some newly created being who had a new human soul, and or human mind, etc.

Also, if Jesus is able to speak from His divine part of Himself, how is able to shut off the human part of Himself? How is Jesus able to disconnect His human mind, will, and emotions? Jesus said He came down from Heaven. Jesus did not say He came from the Incarnation as if that was His beginning. Again, this is yet another strong point for this position. But many Christians are convinced that the Hypostatic Union is the truth and I agree with them that is a possibility (Although I believe it to be smaller in percentage of chance out of the two possibilities).


Jesus Had Suppressed His Divine Attribute of Omniscience (at the foundation of the world long before the “Incarnation”):

Jesus grew in wisdom as a child (Luke 2:52), and He did not know the day or the hour of His own return (Matthew 24:36).

There are two possible explanations for this. The mysterious hypostatic union (Which is one possibility), or Jesus merely suppressed His divine attribute of Omniscience (i.e. to have all knowledge).

The Bible alludes to the fact that Jesus suppressed His divine attribute of Omniscience at the beginning of God’s creation.

How so?

Jesus says to God the Father,

"And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began." (John 17:5).​

I believe this glory is in reference to the "glory of the knowledge of the Lord."

For it is written:

"For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea." (Habakkuk 2:14).

"For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ." (2 Corinthians 4:6).​

Jesus divine attribute of Omniscience was not suppressed before the world began. This is the glory that He shared with the Father at one time. Jesus was the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world. His fate was already laid out ahead of time because God is 100% aware of everything that is going to happen.

When the world began, Jesus's divine attribute of Omniscience was suppressed.

Jesus was perfected in obeying the Father and suffered unto death while He was limited in knowledge or while His divine attribute of Omniscience was suppressed. Jesus was able to learn how to obey while under suffering in a human body with limited knowledge. Jesus lived like a man so as to fulfill the type of Adam. For Adam was also limited in knowledge in the Garden before the fall.

It's why Jesus is a like type figure of Adam.

For Jesus is called the "Last Adam" in Scripture (See 1 Corinthians 15:22).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Please keep in mind that I am fully aware of what Matthew 4:1, Hebrews 2:16-17, and Hebrews 4:15 says. I believe this is talking about external temptation and not internal temptation. External temptation is when somebody offers you some obviously stolen goods on the street and you later to say to your friends that you were tempted by this shady person. Granted, you were not really interested in what he had, you were only tempted externally by the other guy. Internal temptation means you have some kind of lust or wrong desire within you in order to consider in doing that evil thing. Jesus says if you even look at a woman in lust, you have committed adultery already in your heart. So Jesus did not even have lustful thoughts towards women. It is because there was no lusts within Jesus because He is the Holy Son of God.

 

[Albion]

I am a believer in Jesus Christ. I am a Christian. I believe in the Trinity and I believe Jesus died and was risen again on my behalf for salvation through faith by God's Word (the Bible) alone. I believe Jesus had a real physical flesh and blood body (Whose shed blood washed away my sins). However, there is one thing (besides OSAS) I have discovered that disturbs me greatly among my own brethren. What has troubled me is that my fellow fellow Christians reject Apollinarism. This is the belief that Jesus had one divine nature and or one divine mind, will, or soul. They somehow oddly reject this truth.

To say that he had one nature only, a divine nature, means that he was not a human, not a real human, but only was wearing a human form so that the rest of us (I guess) could relate to him in a way that the Jews (and, later, the rest of us) could not relate to a spirit.

But if that is so, there would not have been a sacrifice on the cross since it would have amounted to nothing more than the appearance of the killing of a human being.

 

[Tree of Life]

Jesus died. God can't die.
Jesus got hungry. God doesn't get hungry.
Jesus didn't know the day or hour of his return. God knows everything.
Jesus suffered. God is impassible.

There's a reason that the church rejected Apollinarism as heretical.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Jesus died. God can't die.

God cannot die because He is spirit. Christ's physical flesh and blood body died and not His eternal spirit in being the Holy Son of God (Second person of the Trinity). His eternal spirit in being God went to heart of the Earth for three days and three nights.

Jesus got hungry. God doesn't get hungry.

His physical flesh and blood body got hungry. Not his Eternal soul or spirit in being God.

Jesus didn't know the day or hour of his return. God knows everything.

I believe Jesus suppressed His divine power of Omniscience (i.e. to know all things) in order to be a type of Adam so as to be a substitute for our sins. However, to say that Jesus was stripped of this power would mean He is no longer God. For to be less than God means one is no longer God. Jesus was 100% fully God who simply took on a temple or empty shell of a body. In fact, Jesus referred to his body as a temple.

Jesus suffered. God is impassible.

His body suffered while having limited knowledge in the fact that He suppressed His divine power of Omniscience.

There's a reason that the church rejected Apollinarism as heretical.

I believe most reject it because they want to fit in with their fellow brethren they know. Those who take a stand for the truth of what God's Word really says will not be ashamed of the truth and they will take a stand for the Lord and His Word (No matter what happens).

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

 

[Bible Highlighter]

To say that he had one nature only, a divine nature, means that he was not a human, not a real human, but only was wearing a human form so that the rest of us (I guess) could relate to him in a way that the Jews (and, later, the rest of us) could not relate to a spirit.

But if that is so, there would not have been a sacrifice on the cross since it would have amounted to nothing more than the appearance of the killing of a human being.

It was not an appearance of the the killing of a human. A real flesh and blood body died on our behalf. No Scripture says that a human nature was required for the atonement. Only a body was needed. For it is by His blood whereby our sins are washed away and not by some human spirit. Also, where is it stated in Scripture that Christ has to be like us in some way so we can relate to Him?

God is not interested in us relating to a human.
God is interested in our worship.
In fact, if Jesus did have a human soul or a human spirit, then those who worshiped Jesus would also be worshiping a created finite human soul and spirit along with the divine.
This is a huge problem. Only God alone is to be worshiped, and Jesus says we are to worship God in spirit and in truth.
Jesus said His body was just a temple.
It was not the real portion of who He was.
It was just a shell or husk to pay the price for our sins.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

This sounds like worldly Rap music.
Try praise and worship music for a change, my friend.

 

[redleghunter]

Some historical background for those lurking or just getting started on exploring Christology:

https://www.theopedia.com/Perichoresis
https://www.theopedia.com/hypostatic-union
https://www.theopedia.com/eutychianism
https://www.theopedia.com/monothelitism
https://www.theopedia.com/docetism
https://www.theopedia.com/apollinarianism

 

[Anto9us]

Because to say that Jesus has a human nature means that He is a newly created being that did not exist before the Incarnation.

I don't necessarily buy that. If you substitute the phrase 'human soul' rather than 'human nature' -- it brings out the idea that we here have to deal with the theology of the creation of the human soul -- with ideas being divided between

Traducianism (where the soul is created at the moment of an individual's conception)

and

the idea that every soul was created in eternity past

and other ideas besides might be true that negate the idea that Jesus need not be a 'newly created being' in any other sense than a mortal body.

I believe Jesus had/has a human soul.

The Bible says He was in all points like us, save for sin.

It does not say He COULD NOT SIN; else temptation in the desert by the Devil is a sham, a piece of theatre with no significance behind it.

 

[Anto9us]

Heb 4:15
For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Some historical background for those lurking or just getting started on exploring Christology:

https://www.theopedia.com/Perichoresis
https://www.theopedia.com/hypostatic-union
https://www.theopedia.com/eutychianism
https://www.theopedia.com/monothelitism
https://www.theopedia.com/docetism
https://www.theopedia.com/apollinarianism

Theopedia gets the definition wrong for Apollinarianism. Try the one at Wikipedia or Gotquestions.

They say this about the belief in Apollinarism,

"Jesus Christ was...not totally divine either. "

This part (in what they say) is not true. The whole point of Apollinarism is the uplifting of Christ's divinity as His core essence in His mind, will, and emotions, etc.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

This sounds like worldly Rap music.
Try praise and worship music for a change, my friend.

I listen to all types of music, way I see it, God gave us music of all types, like the internet, a music genre can be used to give God glory, or twisted into a tool of the devil. Sounds are not nearly as important as lyrical content, but is easy to not listen, easy to be hardened to the fact that God can and does use music of all kinds to bring glory to Him, to help His people where we need help, even sounds for different seasons in life. I know what worldly rap music sounds like, I grew up listening to it often as a teenager. This artist I linked to, his music is anything but worldly, sad when a Christian can not at least acknowledge that, even if it's not their style of music.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Also, folks must take note that I do not believe Christ had a human soul as Apollinaris believed. So this is the one aspect of Apollinarism that I do not hold to.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I listen to all types of music, way I see it, God gave us music of all types, like the internet, a music genre can be used to give God glory, or twisted into a tool of the devil. Sounds are not nearly as important as lyrical content, but is easy to not listen, easy to be hardened to the fact that God can and does use music of all kinds to bring glory to Him, to help His people where we need help, even sounds for different seasons in life. I know what worldly rap music sounds like, I grew up listening to it often as a teenager. This artist I linked to, his music is anything but worldly, sad when a Christian can not at least acknowledge that, even if it's not their style of music.

Start another thread on it, my friend.

Thank you;
And may God bless you.

 

[redleghunter]

Yet, the Bible says he was holy, undefiled and separate from sinners.

So was Adam before the fall.

#2. 1 John 2:16 - "For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world."

This verse states that the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life is not of the Father, but is of the world.

The last Adam (Jesus Christ) was in the flesh like the first Adam.

How does this refute the popular idea in Christianity that Jesus had a human nature, soul, or spirit? Because to say that Jesus has a human nature means that He is a newly created being that did not exist before the Incarnation.

The Incarnation actually means just that. The joining of God the Son the Eternal Logos with His human nature:

The Incarnation of the Son of God is the terminology used to describe what happened when the second person of the Trinity, the eternal Son of God, "became flesh" as he was miraculously conceived in the womb of the Virgin Mary according to the Bible. In the incarnation, the divine nature of the Son was perfectly united with human nature in one divine Person. This person, Jesus Christ, was both "truly God and truly man."​

https://www.theopedia.com/incarnation-of-the-son-of-god

 

[Tree of Life]

God cannot die because He is spirit. Christ's physical flesh and blood body died and not His eternal spirit in being the Holy Son of God (Second person of the Trinity). His eternal spirit in being God went to heart of the Earth for three days and three nights.

This is why we say that Jesus also had a human nature. He had a human body that was capable of dying. Unless you think that his body was part of his divine nature?

His physical flesh and blood body got hungry. Not his Eternal soul or spirit in being God.

Same as above. His body is part of his humanity, not his divinity.

I believe Jesus suppressed His divine power of Omniscience (i.e. to know all things) in order to be a type of Adam so as to be a substitute for our sins. However, to say that Jesus was stripped of this power would mean He is no longer God. For to be less than God means one is no longer God. Jesus was 100% fully God who simply took on a temple or empty shell of a body. In fact, Jesus referred to his body as a temple.

You should read up on the Hypostatic Union. I'm not sure you understand it. We confess that Jesus had two natures united in one person. He had/has both a divine and human nature. He did not give up his divine nature when he became incarnate. Jesus doesn't know some things in his human nature that he does know in his divine nature. The Hypostatic Union is the correct formulation, not to deny that Jesus was a human.

I believe most reject it because they want to fit in with their fellow brethren they know. Those who take a stand for the truth of what God's Word really says will not be ashamed of the truth and they will take a stand for the Lord and His Word (No matter what happens).

It's rejected because it's an unbiblical heresy.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

So was Adam before the fall.

No. Hebrews 7:26 says He was made higher than the Heavens. Adam was not made higher than the heavens. Also, the fact that Adam sinned does not mean he was separate from sinners. He was quickly included among them. Jesus was without sin because He had no capacity to sin.

Let me ask you a question. Where does sin come from?
Do you believe it originates from lust or wrong desires within us as per James 1?
Do you believe Jesus had lusts or lust within Him?
Scripture says that there is NO lust in the Father (See 1 John 2).
Jesus says He is one with the Father.
So How can Jesus have lust if He is one with the Father?
How can you sin without lust or wrong desire?

The last Adam (Jesus Christ) was in the flesh like the first Adam.

No. This was in body only. If you were to re-read the chapter it says the second man is the Lord from heaven. It does not say he is a newly created being with the capacity to sin (but yet he simply did not sin).

The Incarnation actually means just that. The joining of God the Son the Eternal Logos with His human nature:

The Incarnation of the Son of God is the terminology used to describe what happened when the second person of the Trinity, the eternal Son of God, "became flesh" as he was miraculously conceived in the womb of the Virgin Mary according to the Bible. In the incarnation, the divine nature of the Son was perfectly united with human nature in one divine Person. This person, Jesus Christ, was both "truly God and truly man."​

https://www.theopedia.com/incarnation-of-the-son-of-god

While Theological Definitions can be helpful to identify what someone believes, they are not the benchmark for truth. The Word of God has to be our standard in determining the truth here and not some theological terms some guy invented.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

This is why we say that Jesus also had a human nature. He had a human body that was capable of dying. Unless you think that his body was part of his divine nature?

I am a believer in Jesus Christ.
I believe in the Trinity.
I believe the Word (Jesus, who is second person of the Godhead) came down into the flesh (See the test given in 1 John 4:2).
I believe He had (and still has) a physical flesh and blood body that is VERY real.

Same as above. His body is part of his humanity, not his divinity.

Nowhere did I say divinity. You are adding those words to what I have said. I said hunger is a part of having a human body. God's mind can surely live in a human body that hungers without having a human soul attached to it. A body all on it's own hungers because of the stomach telling the brain that it is hungry. A human soul, is a person's mind, will, and emotions. Jesus did not merge with a newly created human soul or possess a person who came into existence.

You should read up on the Hypostatic Union. I'm not sure you understand it.

That is a joke. I am fully aware of it 100%. I know I have read more articles on it than you have. I also watched a very enlightening video on the Hypostatic Union, as well. But in time, I have come to discover that the Hypostatic Union (while possible) is filled with many problems. For one, nowhere will you find any mention of a co-existing human nature alongside the divine nature involving Jesus Christ. Try praying for understanding from the Lord over Hebrews 7:26 for the next couple of weeks and see where it leads you.

We confess that Jesus had two natures united in one person. He had/has both a divine and human nature. He did not give up his divine nature when he became incarnate. Jesus doesn't know some things in his human nature that he does know in his divine nature. The Hypostatic Union is the correct formulation, not to deny that Jesus was a human.

I am fully aware of the Hypostatic Union belief.
I believe that while it is possible on the one hand, on he other hand I see it as a problem because it seeks to say that Jesus could have sinned and it seeks to make folks think you can worship men and not God alone.
For if Jesus was 100% man, then we cannot worship Him because we are commanded to worship God alone. Even Jesus says we are to worship God in spirit and in truth.
Christ having only a divine soul and not a human one fixes the problems within the Hypostatic Union (HU).
Jesus's body is essentially just a temple, empty husk, or shell.
It is very much a very real flesh and blood body, but it is not made up with a human soul living on the inside of it. The Word was living on the inside. Not some new creation. While I could be wrong and the HU could be true, I believe it is unlikely Jesus came into existence in the Incarnation. For Jesus has always existed.

It's rejected because it's an unbiblical heresy.

While I see the HU as a slim possibility, I believe the reason why Christ having a divine soul only is rejected in Christianity is because it was by a council of men who banned it. There are no clear Scripture verses saying Jesus had a human soul or a human mind to suggest that HU is 100% fact (like the Trinity). Yes, the HU is possible. But it needs to be slightly adjusted in order for it to work.

 

[redleghunter]

It was not an appearance of the the killing of a human. A real flesh and blood body died on our behalf. No Scripture says that a human nature was required for the atonement. Only a body was needed. For it is by His blood whereby our sins are washed away and not by some human spirit. Also, where is it stated in Scripture that Christ has to be like us in some way so we can relate to Him?

God is not interested in us relating to a human.
God is interested in our worship.
In fact, if Jesus did have a human soul or a human spirit, then those who worshiped Jesus would also be worshiping a created finite human soul and spirit along with the divine.
This is a huge problem. Only God alone is to be worshiped, and Jesus says we are to worship God in spirit and in truth.
Jesus said His body was just a temple.
It was not the real portion of who He was.
It was just a shell or husk to pay the price for our sins.

Yet Jesus of Nazareth died on that cross and then rose from the tomb. Our soul/spirit is who 'we' are, our inner man.

He was both Son of Man and Son of God.