Did John the Baptist sin?

1stcenturylady

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Justification is immediate and complete upon our salvation, but our sanctification, while had in part at the time of our salvation, is an ongoing continual process that will last our whole lives. Hebrews 10:14

When you see the word "sanctified" do you see that it is past tense? Sanctification is not the process you speak of. Sanctification is being set apart unto good works. That is not after we die do we start. No that is immediately.

Then comes the process of perfecting, or "glorification." You may believe that only has to do with our bodies of flesh, but that is only one part of our being. He gives us the "mind of Christ." We are new creatures/new nature. We are dead to willful sin. We are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit. But all of this is based on whether or not we actually have the Spirit of God in us.

I was in church for 30 years before this wonderful baptism of the Holy Spirit happened to me. In other words, I wasn't a Christian, just a sinner going through the motions of "church." But when we are baptized in the Spirit we literally are born again. We pass from death to life. During that whole 30 years of going to church unsaved, I had no power over sin, the struggle of Romans 7 was constant, and not one prayer was answered. Then on February 9, 1977 around 8:00 pm when my church was to pray for the nation, I couldn't. I knew something was wrong with me. How could I pray for the nation and expect it to be answered. So right there I repented. I asked God to scrub me clean. I asked Him to do all the things through me He wanted, because I couldn't do them and be righteous on my own. I had tried, and failed, many times. During the next few moments I had what some would call, a religious experience. I saw a vision and God spoke to me. Based on His words, I repented again, but this time for the right reasons He just revealed to me. Instantly I was filled to overflowing. It started at the top of my head and quickly engulfed me to the bottom of my feet. I was justified, I was sanctified, and I was born again with a spirit that had extreme power to no longer commit sins I never could stop doing before. Not just practicing them, but committing them even once! It just wasn't my nature any longer.

So study for yourself, but do yourself a favor. The Reformation infected the church with the doctrine of weakness that you, and many, many others believe. That is not the gospel. The gospel is good news? What, for the next life in heaven, but not this one? That is nothing like the power of the Holy Spirit - the creator of the whole universe with a single word and the stretching forth of His hands.

So work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For the state you die in will be your state forever. Whether in hell, or in heaven. This doctrine of demons that says you will finally be righteous after you are dead, is Satan's final victory over you.

Revelation 22:11 He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.”
 
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1stcenturylady

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John the Baptist was Elijah ("if you can receive it").

As such he likely received the Spirit for the first time in some way not while he was in Elisabeth's womb but "hundreds of year before" while ministering on earth as Elijah. I do not believe that relationship with the Spirit of God entails being "born again" in the way we usually use the term.

Since, according to Jesus, it is the case that John was Elijah - he possessed the Spirit of God from his conception in the manner that Elijah and the other O.T. saints "possessed" Him in their lives while serving the Lord.

The ministries of the Holy Spirit are manifold, including some kind of relationship to all men even the unsaved. John did not have the exact same relationship to the Spirit of God as we do since Christ's basic salvation providing ministry has been completed.

In the O.T. the Spirit was "with" men. In the N.T. the Spirit is "in" men (whatever that mystery entails).

Anyone sealed by the Spirit unto the day of judgment, being completely and eternally justified before God, seated with Christ, and ruling with Him in Heaven - such as we are - is "greater" than any O.T. saint (Enoch, Moses, Samson, Isaiah, and Elijah/John included).

I don't know if Jesus meant that literally, but it is an interesting thought. Seeing as the OT Elijah never died physically, I can see how you could come to that conclusion, it will be something I'll have to ask Jesus when I see Him. But, personally, I always thought Elijah would come back as one of the two witnesses. I'm not sure about twice.
 
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1stcenturylady

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Samson is a good example.

Good point. The sin nature is not dead until Christ's blood takes it away. So that is why Samson and King David had no real power over sin though they had been anointed with the Holy Spirit, and maybe that includes John the Baptist also. But, we, on the other side of Christ's shedding of blood are in a different era.

It seems, in light of these passages (and many others), very clear to me that John could not have meant that a born-again believer never sins. He may have been expressing an ideal but he certainly did not mean that all Christians are in actuality sinlessly perfect.

Not sinless in the large title. But there are two types of sins. The one I'm talking about is the sin unto death - willful sins - sins you know are sins and do them anyway. Those a Christian, filled with the Spirit, just cannot do, anymore than I can be cruel to animals. It is just not in my nature. What will break your heart, you just won't do.

So do not think I'm preaching blanket sinlessness. I'm not. We will still commit unintentional trespasses, a form of sin also. God knows the difference, as it has to do with the heart, which only He can see clearly. He can't be fooled. This is why in the Lord's Prayer we are to only ask for forgiveness of trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us. Not willful sins.
 
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1stcenturylady

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The only sin that leads to death is rejecting God.
And that's your problem.
God is familiar with all the worst of sin and has no malice.

No, its not. That is Reformation rubbish, the most dangerous sect of Christianity we have, full of white-washed grace. Their doctrines have even affected Spirit-filled churches. But, the Bible is clear, which is why we need to study to be approved. And that is study the Word, not the doctrine of demons.
 
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1stcenturylady

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We don't go swimming at our ages. We take naps or sit in our rocking chairs.

LOL I'm much older than you and I can relate, but I find swimming takes all the pressure off my stiff joints.
 
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1stcenturylady

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We do not reincarnate; the Spirit of God reappears in his prophets and witnesses.

Reincarnation has to do with the dead coming back to life in another form. That doesn't apply to Elijah who never died - yet. But may as one of the two witnesses.

Which brings me to witnessed what? For me, I believe Elijah as he was one of the two witnesses on the Mount of Transfiguration. But, my theory runs short if Moses will be the other witness in the last days, as he already died once. :scratch:
 
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1stcenturylady

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SkyWriting

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No, its not. That is Reformation rubbish, the most dangerous sect of Christianity we have, full of white-washed grace. Their doctrines have even affected Spirit-filled churches. But, the Bible is clear, which is why we need to study to be approved. And that is study the Word, not the doctrine of demons.
I don't attend church. I just read scripture direct.
So I don't know your source.
 
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SkyWriting

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No, its not. That is Reformation rubbish, the most dangerous sect of Christianity we have, full of white-washed grace. Their doctrines have even affected Spirit-filled churches. But, the Bible is clear, which is why we need to study to be approved. And that is study the Word, not the doctrine of demons.

So you say that God gets offended and is suprised by our sins
and that he burns his children for being so stupid?
I thin not.
 
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1stcenturylady

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So you say that God gets offended and is suprised by our sins
and that he burns his children for being so stupid?
I thin not.

You are putting words in my mouth, which means you haven't a clue what I've been saying. Oh well. Your choice.

God KNOWS how weak we are. But that is the reason He gives us everything we need, through the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Not only does that give us power, but knowledge of God's meaning, not what doctrines of demons says the word means.

When you realize just how weak you are, you won't want to stay that way. It is a loving God that takes you out of that weakness, and gives you all the strength you will ever need. It is a fact, but just like Romans 6, that states we are dead to sin - fact. We must also believe it. That it is truth. You must "reckon" yourself dead to sin. The mind is powerful. If you believe the rubbish that we will always be in the carnal flesh, have no hope of strength over sin in this lifetime as is commonly taught - you turn against everything that seems too good to be true, then Satan wins. Satan does not want you to realize the absolute power of God.
 
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SkyWriting

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You are putting words in my mouth, which means you haven't a clue what I've been saying. Oh well. Your choice.

God KNOWS how weak we are. But that is the reason He gives us everything we need, through the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Not only does that give us power, but knowledge of God's meaning, not what doctrines of demons says the word means.

When you realize just how weak you are, you won't want to stay that way. It is a loving God that takes you out of that weakness, and gives you all the strength you will ever need. It is a fact, but just like Romans 6, that states we are dead to sin - fact. We must also believe it. That it is truth. If you believe the rubbish that we will always be in the carnal flesh, have no hope of strength over sin in this lifetime - turn against everything that seems too good to be true, then Satan wins.

I read scripture. No doctrine. Try and hear.
 
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1stcenturylady

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Your post suggests that you study groups and doctrine of those you personally hate.

I've learned a lot on Christian forums over the years, and have to say I get shocked. When you know the scriptures very well, false doctrine jumps out at you. The biggest one is from the Reformation, but theirs comes from as far back as Augustine. "Love God, then live as you please." Or the similar one from the Reformation, "Sin boldly, but love God more." Paul must have seen this garbage in the Spirit and prophesied the question, "should we sin so grace may abound? God forbid! How can we who are DEAD TO SIN live any longer in it? Romans 6:1-2

I hate Satan, and his lies, not the people who swallow them. That is why I keep posting, even though I'm hated for it.
 
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SkyWriting

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I've learned a lot on Christian forums over the years, and have to say I get shocked. When you know the scriptures very well, false doctrine jumps out at you. The biggest one is from the Reformation, but theirs comes from as far back as Augustine. "Love God, then live as you please." Or the similar one from the Reformation, "Sin boldly, but love God more." Paul must have seen this garbage in the Spirit and prophesied the question, "should we sin so grace may abound? God forbid! How can we who are DEAD TO SIN live any longer in it? Romans 6:1-2

I hate Satan, and his lies, not the people who swallow them. That is why I keep posting, even though I'm hated for it.
No idea what you're on about now. I love you. Forget those others.
 
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Hazelelponi

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When you see the word "sanctified" do you see that it is past tense? Sanctification is not the process you speak of. Sanctification is being set apart unto good works. That is not after we die do we start. No that is immediately.

Then comes the process of perfecting, or "glorification." You may believe that only has to do with our bodies of flesh, but that is only one part of our being. He gives us the "mind of Christ." We are new creatures/new nature. We are dead to willful sin. We are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit. But all of this is based on whether or not we actually have the Spirit of God in us.

I was in church for 30 years before this wonderful baptism of the Holy Spirit happened to me. In other words, I wasn't a Christian, just a sinner going through the motions of "church." But when we are baptized in the Spirit we literally are born again. We pass from death to life. During that whole 30 years of going to church unsaved, I had no power over sin, the struggle of Romans 7 was constant, and not one prayer was answered. Then on February 9, 1977 around 8:00 pm when my church was to pray for the nation, I couldn't. I knew something was wrong with me. How could I pray for the nation and expect it to be answered. So right there I repented. I asked God to scrub me clean. I asked Him to do all the things through me He wanted, because I couldn't do them and be righteous on my own. I had tried, and failed, many times. During the next few moments I had what some would call, a religious experience. I saw a vision and God spoke to me. Based on His words, I repented again, but this time for the right reasons He just revealed to me. Instantly I was filled to overflowing. It started at the top of my head and quickly engulfed me to the bottom of my feet. I was justified, I was sanctified, and I was born again with a spirit that had extreme power to no longer commit sins I never could stop doing before. Not just practicing them, but committing them even once! It just wasn't my nature any longer.

So study for yourself, but do yourself a favor. The Reformation infected the church with the doctrine of weakness that you, and many, many others believe. That is not the gospel. The gospel is good news? What, for the next life in heaven, but not this one? That is nothing like the power of the Holy Spirit - the creator of the whole universe with a single word and the stretching forth of His hands.

So work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For the state you die in will be your state forever. Whether in hell, or in heaven. This doctrine of demons that says you will finally be righteous after you are dead, is Satan's final victory over you.

Revelation 22:11 He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.”

Hello.

You share your experience of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit as if it gives you some authority from God over me yet you don't know me at all, whether I have been baptized in the Holy Spirit or even my background as a Christian.

If you were to have authority from God as one sent by God it would be accompanied by some things you don't exhibit, therefore the authority is only over you..

(If you were being chitchatting that's fine too, it just seemed out of place for that and in place as an appeal to authority)

At any rate, as this authority is only over you, it leaves the rest of us to determine, using the tools God gave us, whether or not the message your coming with is from God or not.

We do this by examining scripture to see if it contradicts God Word. Any thing in contradiction of His Word must be rejected.

I have examined what you said and found it to contradict the Word, so I rejected it just as I am commanded. Each person must determine for themselves...

I'm not sitting and arguing with you, I had only posted to share something.
 
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Marvin Knox

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............. "Love God, then live as you please." Or the similar one from the Reformation, "Sin boldly, but love God more." .............
Can you provide for us a source where one of the Reformers said to love God, then live as you please? Thanks.

Regarding the 2nd quote, from Luther - it is actually not correct. The correct quote is as follows:

Be a sinner, and let your sins be strong [or sin boldly], but let your trust in Christ be stronger, and rejoice in Christ who is the victor over sin, death, and the world.”

The quote is from a partial fragment of a letter to Melanchthon where he was admonishing those who were berating former Catholics as being unsavable because of their former participation in the sins of Catholicism.

Luther uses the phrase as an admonition to let our trust in Christ be stronger than the sins we commit. Luther is telling Melanchthon (and us) that our trust in Christ is of first importance. It is to be stronger than our sin, and it is to cause us to rejoice in victory.

Secondly - Luther is clearly saying to Melanchthon that we (people) are sinners and because of our fallenness, we will continue to sin until the second coming.

A continued quote from the words immediately following your supposed quote from the fragment follows:

“We will commit sins while we are here, for this life is not a place where justice resides. We, however, says Peter (2. Peter 3:13) are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth where justice will reign. It suffices that through God’s glory we have recognized the Lamb who takes away the sin of the world. No sin can separate us from Him, even if we were to kill or commit adultery thousands of times each day. Do you think such an exalted Lamb paid merely a small price with a meager sacrifice for our sins? Pray hard for you are quite a sinner.”

To use the quote out of context to show that Luther taught that we should sin is disingenuous to say the least.

But then – based on your other unfounded example of Reformation teaching – I’m thinking that the reference to it here might well be a purposeful misrepresentation of Reformed teaching.

Hopefully that is not the case.
 
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