The Call of the Church is NOT Social Issues

[RDKirk]

But that was NOT what Peter et al told him in Galatians. they were talking about Paul taking the gospel to the gentiles and Jews in the diaspora (greek towns)

Yes Paul took collection(s) for the congregation in Jerusalem, but that was clearly NOT the conversation in Galatians. Go read it.

I read it before making my response.

Again: Who, in fact, did Paul actually collect money for? It was, specifically, for the congregation in Jerusalem. Who did the church in Jerusalem, in fact, deliver money to? It was to those members who needed it.

Does this mean that Paul never gave a handout to someone on the street? Certainly not.

But it does indicate that neither Paul nor the Church in general set up any programs to assuage poverty in general in the Roman empire. Their only systematic effort for the poor mentioned in scripture was to the poor in the Body of Christ.

 

[Saucy]

Interesting question about what we will have left post Trump. Probably not much. Russia will possess all our national secrets, launch codes, and where Hoffa is buried. Russia will control our electrical grids, our monetary system, and our military. The election systems will no longer be controlled by states and counties.

This is what treason at the highest levels means. We become a puppet nation to whatever country subverted us.

I'm guessing there are more than a few people who think that will be just fine since Russia is a Caucasian nation with a well known aversion to minorities, homosexuals and anyone else who looks different.

Learning Russian, however, is going to be pain for everyone. It is a VERY difficult language to learn.

OTOH, maybe Americans need to have their egos deflated a bit.

Just some thoughts.....

This is exactly what I was talking about. This type of dishonesty serves nor favors anyone.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I'd say that it does, such as:

No one serving as a soldier gets entangled in civilian affairs, but rather tries to please his commanding officer. -- 2 Timothy 2

The first two chapters of 1 Peter very carefully lays out how and why the Church is separate from the world...not to mention Jesus having already said so.

You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world means enmity against God? Therefore, anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God. -- James 4

You can't win a popular election without being a friend to enough of the world to gain more votes than the other guy.

It's true enough that Christians can become way too embroiled and too devoted to supporting certain trends in politics and become distracted away the main focus (or foci) of living the Christian life. And I'm not really suggesting that everyone should just jump into their local political pools and get their hands dirty in doing governmental work and blabbing about agendas that often don't see the light of day, especially as all of this seems to become one big MESS in a supposedly democratic Republic like we have in the U.S.

However, I do differentiate between the politics of a governmental and 'social issues' which essentially are not much more than work oriented being a talking head, on the one hand, and valid issues of social justice in society that should be part and parcel of our Christian lives and a part of our attempts to evangelize the lost and care for our disadvantaged brothers and sisters in Christ. And if we find that as Christians we don't have the resources to help out in the community at large, then we should at the least be actively applying social help (and good deeds) within our immediate and extended families.

As to the interpretation of those verses from 2 Timothy 2 and James 4, I'm going to have to say that I would interpret them both a little differently than you do, RD.

When did He say that? What verse? Let's make sure we understand the context of whenever He said it.

...there's Matthew 23:23, Luke 11:42, and verses like Hebrews 11:8 and 11:33. And all of these passages refer back to the prescribed sense of social justice that the Israelites were to ensure was in place in their society as the people of God, in which case, then, if we're going to understand this sense of social justice, we also have to sift through all of the various references to the justice being referred to that are evident in the entire Old Testament.

Of course not. The Body of Christ is supposed to be in all nations making disciples, and as members of the Body each one of us should be actively performing our particular roles in that mission.

Sure. But are all of those roles spelled out in Scripture? I don't think they are. It's given to us in more generic terms by which we are to enter into various occupations as Christians within the societies we have respectively lived in during the last 2,000 years.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I read it before making my response.

Again: Who, in fact, did Paul actually collect money for? It was, specifically, for the congregation in Jerusalem. Who did the church in Jerusalem, in fact, deliver money to? It was to those members who needed it.

Does this mean that Paul never gave a handout to someone on the street? Certainly not.

But it does indicate that neither Paul nor the Church in general set up any programs to assuage poverty in general in the Roman empire. Their only systematic effort for the poor mentioned in scripture was to the poor in the Body of Christ.

Of course, we usually can't affect things on a national level, but we should probably still try as best we can to assuage poverty and other social ills for as many people as possible on the local level,and this should be a part of our attempt to fulfill the Great Commission as we evangelize; besides it's also just a matter of "loving our neighbors and maybe even our enemies." That's how I see it, but I understand that not everyone will see eye to eye on this. ....but this is what I mean when I say we should address "social issues."

 

[Lik3]

Saucy, I agree with everything you have written. I have a rather dumb question. Is what you written an example of the social gospel? I am glad that you have written this also because yes, all of our leaders will be here today, gone tomorrow. It will indeed happen to Trump just like it happened to Obama and to Clinton. I believe wholeheartedly that the church "following" the world and living like the world is partly what is wrong with the church. Could this a reason that we will have a future apostasy instead of a revival?

 

[Angeldove97]

If you're going to preach the same sermon every Sunday, preach this sermon:

From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matt 4:17 RSV

True repentance comes with good fruit. One of my favorite Christians has this saying: Actions, not words.

 

[bcbsr]

It seems like wherever I look, I see more people getting tangled up in social issues, even Christians who believe it's their job to illuminate social issues and morally good to fight for them.

I find myself working harder to pull away from political battles, as they do nothing but stir up strife and hatred, even among Christians. I see the way we treat each other here, myself included, saying evil and horrible things to each other because of who we support or don't support. I think it needs to stop and we move past this.

One day, whether it's today or 7 years from now, Donald Trump will be out of office, and what will we have left? What part did we play in dividing the church and sowing hatred over a political figure who is here today, gone tomorrow?

Here's a good snippet from Alistair Begg:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10156395633146192

It is interesting that Jesus spoke very little about politics, and only when he was coerced into it.

 

[Phil 1:21]

One day, whether it's today or 7 years from now, Donald Trump will be out of office, and what will we have left? What part did we play in dividing the church and sowing hatred over a political figure who is here today, gone tomorrow?

Israel didn't want to be ruled by God; they wanted a king. Look where it got them. Sadly, it seems a lot in the "Church" (quotes intentional) feel the same way judging by their obsession -- hatred even -- of some politicians.

I can understand why atheists and such would act that way. When one believes this temporal life is all there is, one would be more inclined to be ruled by such things. But for those who claim to follow Christ we are called to always look to the Kingdom and find our hope in Jesus Christ...not some politician.

When those calling themselves Christians behave as you described, we know where their heart truly is.