Rapture Top Dogs Admit no Proof Exists

[Blade]

I just take, believe what He said..and He can not lie. I read where He went back to His Fathers house (old Jewish wedding) and will come back to get us. Where He goes we know and how. So Christ look at them.. telling them I AM COMING BACK FOR YOU..yet we talk as if Christ knew He would never come back for them in their life time. So this GOD/MAN out right lied mislead them or only knew that after He died and rose PRAISE GOD GLORY TO JESUS! That NOTHING had to take place for Him to come get His own. They asked Him ..are you going to rule now? He said of those times and seasons the Father only knows. I read Matt 24 and.. I look at who was asking? No Church no Christian. Jewish people asked.. and to Jewish people He answered what they will see.

Pauls 1st letter.. which was by the sweet sweet Holy Spirit. Was to some that thought Christ came already and they missed Him. So how I read all of this is.. He went back to make me a place. And He is coming back for me. He will come in the clouds just as the angels said the day He went up. The dead will rise.. then I will be changed and go up with them to meet Christ in the air. To then be with Him forever. Not once does His foot touch the ground. Not once does He at that time gather the nations and split the nations on and on.

I read OT NT that some great and awful day of the lord is coming. I read that this day is for the wicked.. evil..unrighteous. Not once can I find that day is for the righteous. I find that the righteous and Gods wrath dont mix. Lot.. God said.. as long as you are here I can do NOTHING. Lot could not hide in some room..no..Lot had to be gone. I read that I will never see the wrath of God...duh I have Christ.

So I read and then hear about "Caught up" aka Rapture. So when is it? It does not say when. But.. from what I READ..what I understand is.. it cant be AFTER the tribulation..as long as I am here.. like this or not believe it or not.. My Fathers wrath that is NEVER for me but the wicked that will hit not cities this time but the WORLD. As long as I am still here that day will never come. "For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ," And if you have received Christ then you have everlasting life and those that do not..the wrath of God is still on them.

ALL of that lol to say this. I live in the now. I was not promsied tomorrow. To prepare for tomorrow is wise but I live in the now. I do not look for hop for Christ to come tomorrow. Its NOW is when He will always come. I am ready NOW. I dont care what some MAN says. My GOD said He went back to His fathers house JUST Like a OLD Jewish wedding.

Where that man pays a price for his bride. So the man goes back to his fathers house to make them a home. The bride stays behind gets ready. Yet she has no clue when he will come back for her. About a year later he mostly at night comes back with friends for her. As he gets closer he makes a loud noise so she knows and takes her back to his fathers house...for about a week.

That in its self proves NOTHING. But.. wow.. So my GOD goes back to make me a place and HE said He will come back for me. SO for me.. there is no PRE MID or POST. I am ready NOW. And from all so far that I know and heard seen of my Father is this.. I am free to believe and HE will give to me as I believe. Be it FAITH or DOUBT. So if I am not ready do not believe He will ever come back and CAUGHT UP me in the air with Him.. when He does come.. I will not go. He will not force ANYONE to go to believe to say to speak to act.

YOU make this choice. There were 10.. ALL feel asleep. 5 were ready 5 were not. That DOOR did not open for the last 5. So I live my life as if CHRIST is coming NOW. NOW is all I have. I am ready NOW. I will not miss Him. I am ready I am watching. He told you.. I go back. I will come back and get you.. HELLO? Is THAT ALONE not enough? This GOD can not lie. So.. just be like a child.. read that and.. rejoice! HE IS COMING BACK FOR YOU! Live in the now

 

[BABerean2]

So I read and then hear about "Caught up" aka Rapture. So when is it? It does not say when. But.. from what I READ..what I understand is.. it cant be AFTER the tribulation..as long as I am here.. like this or not believe it or not.. My Fathers wrath that is NEVER for me but the wicked that will hit not cities this time but the WORLD.

The Greek words for "tribulation" and "wrath" are not the same word.

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[Choose Wisely]

Through the ministry of Zev Porat in Tel Aviv, and One For Israel which is a Bible college in central Israel made up of both Jewish and Arab Christians, thousands of young Israelis are rejecting Orthodox Judaism and are coming to faith in Christ.

The modern Church as a whole has done a pitiful job of taking the Gospel to the Jewish people.
The man in the video above found the promise of the New Covenant in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and realized that Christ is the Messiah promised in the Hebrew scriptures.

The Dual Covenant Theology that you are promoting is a part of the problem, instead of the solution.

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I don't recall taking a dual covenant position. Putting words in my mouth again? I believe that there is no salvation in any other name.
This denial of the Word of God position that you have taken is leading many to be confused.

God says the Gentiles will be grafted in and they were. God say that He will restore Israel as a nation and He did. After the fullness of the Gentiles comes in, His elect will see the truth, just as He promised.

P.S. I used the word ELECT so I expect the usual cut and paste response.

 

[Choose Wisely]

The Greek words for "tribulation" and "wrath" are not the same word.
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Fortunately the tribulation is not part of the wrath of God. And yet there is still a pretribulation rapture.

 

[keras]

People believe in a ‘rapture to heaven’, pre, mid, post, anytime; which shows up the lack of Biblical support and the inability of rapture believers to agree on any aspect of that theory.

Where does this idea come from? It isn’t stated anywhere in the Bible and those who promote it must use inferences and assumptions to make verses fit their belief.

But when Jesus Himself tells us that such an idea is impossible, then we know it is just a fable, a false theory, like Paul says; will be prevalent in the latter days. 2 Timothy 4:3-4

Jesus said:

John 3:13 No one has gone up to heaven, except the One who came down from there…

John 7:33-34…I am going away to Him who sent Me and where I go, you cannot come.

John 8:21-23 Again He said: Where I go, you cannot come. You belong to this world below, I to the world above….

John 17:15 I do not pray that You take My people out of this world, but to keep them from the evil one.

Revelation 5:10 You have made them priests for our God and they shall reign on earth.

Evidence enough that people never go to heaven. Only their souls, after death, go back to the One who made them, where they await the Great White Throne Judgement at the end of the Millennium. Revelation 20:11-15

The whole theory of a rapture to heaven contradicts what we are told that the Lord will do for His people; protection during the terrible times ahead. And for those who do stand firm in their faith, who call upon His Name when disaster strikes, there is the promise of tremendous blessings, spiritual and physical to every faithful Christian.

 

[BABerean2]

After the fullness of the Gentiles comes in, His elect will see the truth, just as He promised.

Based on Luke 21:24-28, the fullness of the Gentiles occurs at the Second Coming of Christ.


Based on Christ's words in the parable of the virgins, those not ready when the Bridegroom comes will be rejected.


In 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, Christ returns "in flaming fire" taking vengeance on those who do not know God.
Is that fire going to incinerate those who are mortals?

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[jgr]

Rapture Wimpism

Any student of Scripture with even a cursory knowledge of the NT Church knows that tribulation in the form of persecution, suffering, and death has been the lot of the Church ever since its birth. From its persecution at the hands of the Jews, to that under the Roman emperors and empires, to that today under Islam and other ideologies; the Church's experience with tribulation has been unrelenting, and its death toll over the millennia is counted in the tens of millions.

In the NT, we see in the book of Acts a complete account of how the disciples and Christ's followers were hated and persecuted as Jesus had predicted (Matthew 24:9). In Acts 4: "And they laid hands on them [Peter and John], and put them in prison" (verse 3). In Acts 5, they were "beaten" (verse 40). As they departed from the "council", they rejoiced "that they were counted worthy to suffer for his name"(verse 41). In Acts 7, Stephen was killed for his stand (verses 54-60). In Acts 8:1 "There was a great persecution against the church." In Acts 16, Paul and Silas were beaten and cast into prison. In Acts 21, persecution resulted in Paul being beaten, and brought before rulers, before whom he testified (Acts 22). In Acts 22:19 we read that Paul confessed that prior to his conversion, he had "imprisoned and beaten in every synagogue" those who believed in Christ.

There was no lack of tribulation for the NT Church.

But deplorably, we see today a generation of what can best be described as “rapture wimps.” This generation of North American believers, the most “molycoddled and milquetoast” in the history of the Christian Church, seems in large part to believe that it is also entitled to escape the trials and privations which have beset the historic Church, and to be “...carried to the skies on flowery beds of ease” as the beloved hymn “Am I a Soldier of the Cross” describes.

The following partial enumeration of NT tribulation references...:

John 16:33
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Acts 14:22
Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

Romans 5:3
And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

2 Corinthians 1:4
Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.

1 Thessalonians 3:4
For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know.

Revelation 1:9
I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

...makes it clear that there is no room for “rapture wimps” in the Christian Church. In solidarity with other believers in parts of the world who suffer tribulation even as we read this, we must be prepared to, as did and do these, “fight to win the prize and sail through bloody seas”, as we see the hymnwriter further pen.


God has promised...:

John 16:33
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

...that we can be triumphant in Him even in the midst of tribulation. He promises us all of His grace and resources to make this a reality.


But the promise is only for those who refuse to be “rapture wimps.”

 

[Chinchilla]

“Martha said, “I know that he will come back to life again in the resurrection at the last day.”” (John 11:24)


“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” (John 5:28–29)


“Many of those who sleep in the dusty ground will awake— some to everlasting life, and others to shame and everlasting abhorrence.” (Daniel 12:2)


““Do not be amazed at this, because a time is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and will come out—the ones who have done what is good to the resurrection resulting in life, and the ones who have done what is evil to the resurrection resulting in condemnation.” (John 5:28–29)

“Now this is the will of the one who sent me—that I should not lose one person of every one he has given me, but raise them all up at the last day.” (John 6:39)

Plus consider the wheat and tares on the last day etc...

Since you claim such thing as rapture does not exist .

Have fun explaining this one .

Matthew 16:18 King James Version (KJV)
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.


Revelation 13:7 King James Version (KJV)
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.



Which one is true , are saints overcomed or not ?

 

[keras]

Which one is true , are saints overcomed or not ?

The holy people of God, now every faithful Christian, do get taken over by the leader of the One World Govt; the Anti-Christ. This will happen at the midpoint of the last 7 years before Jesus Returns and it is because they failed to trust solely on the Lord for their protection.
We see in Daniel 11:32, how they are divided into 2 groups, those who agreed to a peace treaty with the AC, Revelation 9:27, and those who refused to violate their covenant with God. Also in Zechariah 14:1-2.
Then in Revelation 12:6-17, those two groups of Christians are described; the faithful ones are taken to a place of safety during the 3 1/2 years, [or 42 months or 1260 days] and the other group remain, as per Revelation 12:17.
Then Jesus Returns, destroys the AC's army and chains him up. Jesus sends out His angels to gather His people from their place of safety and all who have refused the mark of the beast, to where He is; that is in Jerusalem, from where He will rule the world for 1000 years.

 

[Chinchilla]

The holy people of God, now every faithful Christian, do get taken over by the leader of the One World Govt; the Anti-Christ. This will happen at the midpoint of the last 7 years before Jesus Returns and it is because they failed to trust solely on the Lord for their protection.
We see in Daniel 11:32, how they are divided into 2 groups, those who agreed to a peace treaty with the AC, Revelation 9:27, and those who refused to violate their covenant with God. Also in Zechariah 14:1-2.
Then in Revelation 12:6-17, those two groups of Christians are described; the faithful ones are taken to a place of safety during the 3 1/2 years, [or 42 months or 1260 days] and the other group remain, as per Revelation 12:17.
Then Jesus Returns, destroys the AC's army and chains him up. Jesus sends out His angels to gather His people from their place of safety and all who have refused the mark of the beast, to where He is; that is in Jerusalem, from where He will rule the world for 1000 years.

Does not help to explain the contradiction . Church is not divided it's one body of Christ .

 

[BABerean2]

Since you claim such thing as rapture does not exist .

Have fun explaining this one .

Matthew 16:18 King James Version (KJV)
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.


Revelation 13:7 King James Version (KJV)
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.



Which one is true , are saints overcomed or not ?

The answer is found in looking at the Apostle Paul.
One concerns our temporary flesh body, and the other concerns the immortal soul.

One is permanent, and the other is temporary.

The Apostle Paul's soul is now with Christ.

His body was overcome, when they removed his head from his body.

However, Paul will be resurrected from the dead and will live with Christ forever, in both soul and immortal flesh.
The two witnesses in Revelation 11 are an example of this fact.

Pretribbers often seem to be more concerned about their mortal flesh.

..................................................

Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

A person cannot be under the blood of the Lamb and not be a part of the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ.
The verse above kills the pretrib doctrine.

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[Chinchilla]

The answer is found in looking at the Apostle Paul.
One concerns our temporary flesh body, and the other concerns the immortal soul.

One is permanent, and the other is temporary.

The Apostle Paul's soul is now with Christ.

His body was overcome, when they removed his head from his body.

However, Paul will be resurrected from the dead and will live with Christ forever, in both soul and immortal flesh.

Pretribbers often seem to be more concerned about their mortal flesh.

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You still do not explain how can saints be overcomed and not overcomed at the same time , dead has nothing to do with it Jesus said :

Matthew 16:28 King James Version (KJV)
28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.


These people who will not see death can't overcome and be overcomed at the same time .
Keep trying

 

[BABerean2]

You still do not explain how can saints be overcomed and not overcomed at the same time , dead has nothing to do with it Jesus said :

Matthew 16:28 King James Version (KJV)
28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.


These people who will not see death can't overcome and be overcomed at the same time .
Keep trying

You are ripping one verse out of its context in an effort to make your doctrine work.

You are also attempting to ignore the facts and scripture in my last post.

Who was standing in the presence of Christ when He said Matthew 16:28?
Were you standing there?
Was anybody alive today standing there when He said those words?

In the verse below we see that some aspect of the kingdom came into being during the first century, because He did cast out devils during His ministry at that time.

Luk_11:20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.


This fact is confirmed below.

Luk_16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

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[Dave L]

Since you claim such thing as rapture does not exist .

Have fun explaining this one .

Matthew 16:18 King James Version (KJV)
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.


Revelation 13:7 King James Version (KJV)
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.



Which one is true , are saints overcomed or not ?

This does not have anything to do with the rapture. It concerns the binding and losing of Satan in this present evil world.

 

[Dave L]

The rapture could happen pre-trib (pre-70th week) or it may not.

There is no gap in the 70 weeks.

 

[Chinchilla]

This does not have anything to do with the rapture. It concerns the binding and losing of Satan in this present evil world.

No it shows contradiction , nothing to do with binding Satan , church is not binding Satan but angel .

 

[Dave L]

All quotes from before church age am I right ?

I prefer New Covenant age. The church was the congregation of the Lord in the OT. Church = congregation.

 

[Chinchilla]

Luk_16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

Yea , Jews rejected the Kingdom so now is time for gospel of grace by Paul .
Obviously you won't agree with it aswell so we might stop it there .

 

[Dave L]

No it shows contradiction , nothing to do with binding Satan , church is not binding Satan but angel .

Angel = Greek Messenger
Message = gospel
1000 years = binding of Satan (not the kingdom which lasts forever)
Satan loosed = gospel falls on deaf ears and the world assails the church. Much like today.

 

[Chinchilla]

I prefer New Covenant age. The church was the congregation of the Lord in the OT. Church = congregation.

Fine , let's take another example .

How are there children in Kingdom of God , if after resurrection we don't marry ?
Isaiah 11:6 King James Version (KJV)
6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.


Matthew 22:30 King James Version (KJV)
30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.


After Christ came , he said that he will destroy the Death
1 Corinthians 15:26 King James Version (KJV)
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.


Why are there people dying in kingdom then ?

Isaiah 65:20
“There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.”

How can it even sin if whatever is Born of God does not sin in heaven ?
1 John 3:9 King James Version (KJV)
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.



See , if you remove a part everything else falls apart .