Can Christians smoke and drink beer?

ewq1938

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That said, The bible also says we should not drink at all.


No, the bible doesn't say that. It actually promotes drinking some alcohol for health reasons etc.


Deu 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,



Pro 31:6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.
Pro 31:7 Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.

Mat_9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.


New wine is grape juice that is beginning to ferment and creates a small amount of alcohol that's why it's called new. The fermentation process causes expansion which is why you can't use a stretched out old wine skin for new wine.

H8492
?????? / ???????
ti^yro^sh
BDB Definition:
1) wine, fresh or new wine, must, freshly pressed wine
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: from H3423 in the sense of expulsion
Same Word by TWOT Number: 2505


Mat_9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

wine:

G3631
???????
oinos
oy'-nos
A primary word (or perhaps of Hebrew origin [H3196]); “wine” (literally or figuratively): - wine.

H3196
???
yayin
yah'-yin
From an unused root meaning to effervesce; wine (as fermented); by implication intoxication: - banqueting, wine, wine [-bibber].

New wine still contains alcohol.

The Passover wine Christ drank had alcohol in it.
 
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W2L

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Anything we do that harms our bodies is wrong biblically.
Do you have a scripture that says that? Driving in a car can cause a crash and destroy the body. Is that not a sin too? Eating certain foods can cause harm, but God says all food is pure.
 
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ewq1938

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Do you have a scripture that says that? Driving in a car can cause a crash and destroy the body. Is that not a sin too?

That is called an accident. Smoking isn't an accident.

1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1Co 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
 
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Kenny'sID

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No, the bible doesn't say that. It actually promotes drinking some alcohol for health reasons etc.

It does both.

I should have been more specific, there is Scripture that says to be sober, as well as particular people were told not to drink wine at all.

Yeah, there is scripture like the following where God pretty much says party dudes/dudetts, whatever you want, have a good time in my presence. And it would make perfect sense God would want that, after all he really does love us, and the only reason for his guidelines on drunkenness, is, well for the same reason...he loves us and doesn't want us to hurt ourselves:


…25then exchange it for money, take the money in your hand, and go to the place where the LORD your God will choose. 26Then you may spend the money on anything you desire: cattle, sheep, wine, strong drink, or anything you wish. You are to feast there in the presence of the LORD your God and rejoice with your household. 27And do not neglect the Levite within your gates, since he has no portion or inheritance among you.…
 
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ewq1938

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It does both.

I should have been more specific, there is Scripture that says to be sober, as well as particular people were told not to drink wine at all.

I don't know about the last thing...perhaps an antiquated thing from the OT applied to someone but sober in the NT doesn't have anything to do with alcohol:

1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

sober
G4998
σώφρων
sōphrōn
so'-frone
From the base of G4982 and that of G5424; safe (sound) in mind, that is, self controlled (moderate as to opinion or passion): - discreet, sober, temperate.

sober means to have self control not to abstain from alcohol like it does in modern English.
 
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W2L

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That is called an accident. Smoking isn't an accident.

1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1Co 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
That scripture is not talking about things that are harmful to the human body. There is no context to support such a notion. Its actually referring to sectarianism which is harmful to the body of Christ, not our individual bodies..
 
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ubicaritas

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Can Christians smoke and drink beer?
Maybe 1 package of cigarette per day, 1 pint of beer per day.
Is that allowable?

Yes. Whether they should is another story. Some people at my church do smoke, but they are of course putting their health and risk. That's not exactly a good thing but we also respect that is their choice.

My church sees nothing wrong with responsible, moderate drinking as long as that doesn't go against ones conscience or harm other people. At my own congregation, outside of communion we do not serve anything alcoholic.
 
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ewq1938

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That scripture is not talking about things that are harmful to the human body.

That scripture is talking about things that are harmful to the human body.

Joh 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
Joh 2:20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
Joh 2:21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

Same concept here except others would destroy his body, whereas the other scripture is about someone defiling their own body.
 
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Kenny'sID

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I don't know about the last thing...perhaps an antiquated thing from the OT applied to someone but sober in the NT doesn't have anything to do with alcohol:

1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

sober
G4998
σώφρων
sōphrōn
so'-frone
From the base of G4982 and that of G5424; safe (sound) in mind, that is, self controlled (moderate as to opinion or passion): - discreet, sober, temperate.

sober means to have self control not to abstain from alcohol like it does in modern English.

You said it not me. :) sober, sound mind, self controlled, and sometimes if not always at least technically, drink can deter sound mind/self control. Precisely how the term moved into describing a non drinker, a definition that I'm sure also exists.

Example of wine causing one to not be of sound mind:

it is not for kings to drink wine, not for rulers to crave beer,
5 lest they drink and forget what has been decreed, and deprive all the oppressed of their rights.
 
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ewq1938

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You said it not me. :) sober, sound mind, self controlled, and sometimes if not always at least technically, drink can deter sound mind/self control. 5 lest they drink and forget what has been decreed, and deprive all the oppressed of their rights.

Yes but the word is not alcohol related. It speaks of self control in general. To be alcohol sober means not to drink at all but this verse is not saying he cannot have a glass or two of wine if he wants.
 
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Kenny'sID

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Yes but the word is not alcohol related. It speaks of self control in general. To be alcohol sober means not to drink at all but this verse is not saying he cannot have a glass or two of wine if he wants.

I disagree but so be it.
 
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ewq1938

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I disagree but so be it.

It's easy to prove:

1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
1Ti 3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

Clarke:

1 Timothy 3:3

An eighth article in his character is, he must not be given to wine; μη παροινον. This word not only signifies one who is inordinately attached to wine, a winebibber or tippler, but also one who is imperious, abusive, insolent, whether through wine or otherwise. Kypke contends for this latter acceptation here. See his proofs and examples.


So, "given to wine" would be someone addicted to it, an alcoholic. But a casual drinker of wine would be able to become a bishop...I mean, real wine was used in communions.
 
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W2L

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That scripture is talking about things that are harmful to the human body.

Joh 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
Joh 2:20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
Joh 2:21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

Same concept here except others would destroy his body, whereas the other scripture is about someone defiling their own body.
Read the context. Its not about the human body but is about sectarianism in the body of Christ.
 
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ewq1938

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Sound mind can be affected by alcohol, no two ways about it.


Of course but a Bishop could and did drink wine, no two ways about that either.
 
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ewq1938

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No i disagree. Holiness is not about physical fitness. The apostles dont teach about physical fitness. You're reading into the text what you think it says.

The temple of God is our body and we are not to defile it. This isn't being read into the text.
 
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W2L

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This isn't being read into the text.
Yes it is because the body refers to the body of Christ. The whole chapter is about sectarianism in the body of Christ, not about taking care of our physical bodies. Im telling you what the scripture is saying. Do you know what defiles us as individuals? Things like fornication, idolatry, even our words. Not physical fitness. The apostles never refer to physical fitness when referring to the temple. Never.
 
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ewq1938

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Yes it is because the body refers to the body of Christ.

Nope:

1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1Co 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.


Things like fornication, idolatry, even our words. Not physical fitness.

Wrong. Drug use defiles the body and that equals defiling the temple of God...smoking is legal but it is "a drug" and is very harmful to the body so it is false that the bible does not address our being healthy. Do you have any idea how many people have died of lung cancer from smoking? Ever heard of Gluttony? Sexually transmitted diseases that destroy our bodies?
 
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