How does representation by Adam make any sense?

name_is_irrelevant

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Does Trump make all Americans Republicans? No.

Did Hitler make all Germans Nazis? No.

(No connection there, just two examples that came to mind, I hate all politics.)

So why does Adam's sin make all humans sinners, at least as far as I understand mainstream Christian theology?

What kind of logic is that? Imputed guilt is what this is called, IIRC.

People say, well it works the same way as Christ representing you. No, it doesn't. With Christ, he is your representative through personal association: faith. Whereas I couldn't care about Adam. It makes no sense.
 

Job3315

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Does Trump make all Americans Republicans? No.

Did Hitler make all Germans Nazis? No.

(No connection there, just two examples that came to mind, I hate all politics.)

So why does Adam's sin make all humans sinners, at least as far as I understand mainstream Christian theology?

What kind of logic is that? Imputed guilt is what this is called, IIRC.

People say, well it works the same way as Christ representing you. No, it doesn't. With Christ, he is your representative through personal association: faith. Whereas I couldn't care about Adam. It makes no sense.
If you go to Genesis 3 you’ll read that God told Adam and Eve that if they ate from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil they were going to die, did they die? Physically no, they died spiritually. From that point on everyone who was born was born spiritually dead. Jesus came to connects us to God through the Holy Spirit which is the salvation of our souls. Our bodies die, but our souls are being sanctified, going from glory to glory, from revelation to revelation. That’s why we are “born again”...we are born again in the Spirit because Adam and Eve lost that Spirit when they sinned.
 
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discipler7

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Does Trump make all Americans Republicans? No.

Did Hitler make all Germans Nazis? No.
But Trump "Makes America Great Again". = #MAGA.

An American needs to apply and join the Republican Party, in order to be a Republican.

The majority of Germans elected Hitler and his Nazi Party to be their leader and government. The minority who objected had to accept majority rule and its consequences. That is how democracy works. Similarly for when Obama and the Democrats were elected in 2008 and Trump and the Republicans were elected in 2016.
....... IOW, people/voters do not inherit election results, which can change like the tides of the ocean.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _

Most Afghans are Afghan because their forefathers were Afghans. No.?

If your father is rich, you will also likely remain rich when your father passes away, eg Trump. OTOH, if your father is poor, you will also likely remain poor when your father passes away. We have no say in what things to inherit from our father, whether it be riches or poverty. We can't reject inherited poverty even though we don't like it - if given a choice, most of us would like to be born as Warren Buffett's or Bill Gate's children. All the poor inheritors can do is to improve things for their children, eg by being good and law-abiding people = blessed by God.
....... Similarly, we have no say in our inheritance of Adam's Original Sin(AOS) from our earthly Father and our inheritance of Jesus Christ's Atonement for AOS from our heavenly Father,(ROMANS.5:12) except to meekly accept our inheritance.

OTOH, people cannot vote and elect by majority-rule for whichever theist religions and salvation or reincarnation/rebirth and nirvana/enlightenment or death and nothingness or God vs Satan/mammon. The King of Kings and Lord of Lords isn't elected.
 
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συνείδησις

¿uo buıob sı ʇɐɥʍ
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Does Trump make all Americans Republicans? No.

Did Hitler make all Germans Nazis? No.

(No connection there, just two examples that came to mind, I hate all politics.)

So why does Adam's sin make all humans sinners, at least as far as I understand mainstream Christian theology?

What kind of logic is that? Imputed guilt is what this is called, IIRC.

People say, well it works the same way as Christ representing you. No, it doesn't. With Christ, he is your representative through personal association: faith. Whereas I couldn't care about Adam. It makes no sense.

All men inherit death from Adam (both spiritual and physical). Having a spiritually dead nature prevents perfectly doing the will of GOD, so at some point all men sin.
 
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Serving Zion

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Does Trump make all Americans Republicans? No.

Did Hitler make all Germans Nazis? No.

(No connection there, just two examples that came to mind, I hate all politics.)

So why does Adam's sin make all humans sinners, at least as far as I understand mainstream Christian theology?

What kind of logic is that? Imputed guilt is what this is called, IIRC.

People say, well it works the same way as Christ representing you. No, it doesn't. With Christ, he is your representative through personal association: faith. Whereas I couldn't care about Adam. It makes no sense.
Sin is not hereditary, it is learned. It is the "fall from grace". St. Paul writes "I was alive once apart from Torah, but when the commandment came, sin came to life and I died". This shows that there comes a time in our development when the flesh is provoked by some commandment, that makes us fall from grace. The person is then a slave to sin (Romans 6:16) and needs to be born again (1 John 3:14).

The inherited guilt theory of the Original Sin doctrine, suggesting that the human has inherited some new ability to do sin that they didn't have before the fall, it is fallacious (false/lies/doctrine of the devil - see 2 Peter 2:1). There is some truth though, that through the human weakness that was discovered, the adversary has gained many drones/bots (demoniacs are like robots), and in this way, it has been able to spread the sinful diseased nature into each person. This begins to happen even before the child learns to speak, they don't know what they are doing.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Sin is not hereditary, it is learned.
...... everyone is born subject to sin. Yes, sin is learned also, by little babies, from those taking care of them, including parents, but that can be little to nothing (almost).
Everyone is born dead in sin and trespasses.
Everyone born to unbelieving parents is unclean.
God's Word says plenty about all this, clearly.
 
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Dave L

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Does Trump make all Americans Republicans? No.

Did Hitler make all Germans Nazis? No.

(No connection there, just two examples that came to mind, I hate all politics.)

So why does Adam's sin make all humans sinners, at least as far as I understand mainstream Christian theology?

What kind of logic is that? Imputed guilt is what this is called, IIRC.

People say, well it works the same way as Christ representing you. No, it doesn't. With Christ, he is your representative through personal association: faith. Whereas I couldn't care about Adam. It makes no sense.
As I understand, God placed Adam on trial of obedience for all of his children that ever would be. When Adam sinned, he flunked the test for all of us. If he could not pass under the perfect conditions of Eden, we would never pass if tested ourselves.

But God placed Jesus (God in sinless human flesh) on trial for his children. Jesus passed the test perfectly fulfilling it on the cross. There he proved he loved God and enemy more than life itself. Even taking his enemy's punishment for sin in his place.

Therefore, God imputed his righteousness to all of his children. When before God considered us sinful in Adam, he now considers us perfect in Christ. Not just with Jesus' human perfection, but with God's own perfection forever. If you believe in Christ, you are his child, and God sees you as perfect as himself.
 
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Serving Zion

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...... everyone is born subject to sin. Yes, sin is learned also, by little babies, from those taking care of them, including parents, but that can be little to nothing (almost).
Everyone is born dead in sin and trespasses.
Everyone born to unbelieving parents is unclean.
God's Word says plenty about all this, clearly.
I do not hold to that teaching that you have received, it is false teaching. I am here to serve OP though and not to fight about it, so I will assist his investigation by offering the perspective of truth that is to say that there is no scripture that says as you have said "everyone is born dead in sin and trespasses" - you are teaching devil's doctrine by saying that.
 
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Serving Zion

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bcbsr

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Does Trump make all Americans Republicans? No.

Did Hitler make all Germans Nazis? No.

(No connection there, just two examples that came to mind, I hate all politics.)

So why does Adam's sin make all humans sinners, at least as far as I understand mainstream Christian theology?

What kind of logic is that? Imputed guilt is what this is called, IIRC.

People say, well it works the same way as Christ representing you. No, it doesn't. With Christ, he is your representative through personal association: faith. Whereas I couldn't care about Adam. It makes no sense.
There are two senses of being made sinners. I object to the imputed guilt theory of Calvinism and others, as God would be by definition unjust for imputing the guilt of one person for crimes he committed on to others. They claim that such is just in the case of being held guilty for the sins of one's ancestors, which is obviously prejudicial, and hypocritically they don't advocate such in any other case.

The other is the idea of the sinful nature being past down.

Frankly seems to me Adam and Eve had a sinful nature to begin with. They were physically kept alive by continuing to eat of the tree of life, which sustained their life. Notice that after they sinned they were restricted access to the tree of life, else they would have continued to live. But they nonetheless continued to live for hundreds of years, the lifespan of their descendants progressively decreasing. This indicates to me that the tree of life had a prolonged effect on their biology, and even that of their descendants that kept them living. But cutting off their sustenance from the tree of life, they eventually died.

Thus it could be said that Adam's sin resulting in he and his descendants eventually dying, though they could have lived forever if they had access to the tree of life. I don't think the condemnation has to do with passing down the sinful nature nor passing down the guilt of sin, but rather cutting off access to that which would have allowed them to live forever.
 
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συνείδησις

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I will assist his investigation by offering the perspective of truth that is to say that there is no scripture that says as you have said "everyone is born dead in sin and trespasses" - you are teaching devil's doctrine by saying that.

All men are born dead because they are born separated from the tree of life. Therefore they are sinners from birth.
 
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