Thank you.
I think that's possibly what confused me - hearing variously others referred to as Copts. And I'm still figuring out EO, so I haven't been able to really delve into what's what with OO either.
It's okay. I'm not an ethnic Copt or from another 'OO ethnicity' (blehhhh...that felt gross to type), so I don't mean to talk for anyone who is, but in my personal experience Copts (Egyptians) and Orthodox Tewahedo (Ethiopians and Eritreans) don't tend to mind the confusion, because it's a technical matter that they don't generally expect others to understand. Just don't call Eritreans Ethiopians and you'll be fine.
I do so sincerely wish our schism could be healed, though I am starting to see that it goes deeper than I'd realized. I have a few OO friends online through FB and two of them separately approached me trying to understand our differences. We (in both cases) talked about everything we could think of to explore and couldn't find any, other than the "two natures". And they were both laymen and myself not particularly educated so we couldn't even really explore that beyond just the basic statement our respective Churches give us.
Yes, I definitely hear you on this! I am also a layperson and have had that same discussion with Greeks and other Chalcedonians in Albuquerque when I lived there (both in real life and online). Many times, in fact. It is to the point where I will walk away not because I am offended or angry, but just because there isn't anything left to say, you know? I think you are on to something about the statements our respective churches give us. I have come to the conclusion personally (again, as a layperson; this is not an "official OO stance" or whatever) that it is more a matter of mindset and approach to things than necessarily differences in faith. HH Pope Shenouda III of thrice-blessed memory declared back in the 1990s that, as far as we are concerned, the
technical Christological controversy is resolved. You can hear it from his own mouth at 1:38 in the following video:
The issue now is, of course, that it is not as simple as having theologians meet and agree on whatever level they can (and I think HH knows this, obviously; I take his comment to be more like "Thanks be to God this advancement in our relations has happened", not "Voila! The schism is over!" or anything like that). It is, as HH puts it in the very end of the video clip, the matter of "going in the way of unity", or if you will, in a practical sense, doing exactly what you are already doing on FB and I'm going to assume in real life with your OO friends: Having these kinds of difficult talks. Trying to figure out where the differences are, and if they are surmountable, and what they 'mean' in terms of the life of the Church you are looking at. Not every OO person or even every OO Church looks at the schism in the same way, though we all want it to end. The Armenians, for instance, were late to condemn the Tome (in 506, in a council at Dvin), but early to call for reunion after the breakdown of the Henotikon and so forth (e.g., the reunion attempts of HH Catholicos Nerses Shnorhali in the 12th century). The Copts and Tewahedo, for our part, have been a tougher nut to crack, for various reasons related to their particular histories which I have to say as someone who converted to this Church I feel woefully unworthy to even touch. But all of this goes into how we view the schism, and our Church and tradition, and your Church and tradition.
Basically, we still don't necessarily
know each other well enough. I have read comments on this board and in private about how "I could never go to a Coptic church; why go there, when I have the real thing?", which, yeah, fine, obviously that's how the Church that you're in views things, so I won't knock it (we sometimes express similar sentiments), but you are then missing a chance to connect with these people
who you at least want to bring to Orthodoxy if you don't think they're already believers and practitioners of it (or however you'd put it). So there is a kind of barrier that comes from a "those people over there are X, we are Y; stick with Y" attitude, like when I was still just a catechumen and I mentioned that I might go to the local OCA when I was home for Christmas to visit family (St. Seraphim of Sarov in Santa Rosa, CA; I recommend it highly, if you are in the area, in addition to a trip to historic Fort Ross...if you can trust the word of a dirty miaphysite
), and one of the little old ladies (I believe you'd call them yiayias or babushkas; for us they are طنط tunt/tant -- meaning 'aunty') took me aside and very sweetly said "You know we are not in communion with them, right?", with a vibe of like 'You should not go there'. I did not tell her that I had already been there before I ever knew the Coptic Orthodox Church was.
I do not believe the schism will end until this kind of thing because so rare as to be seen as inappropriate, even when it comes from Tant Hoda or Tant Mary or whoever (or a yiayia, or a babushka, etc) . We need to see our faith and ourselves in one another's churches, on both a higher-level theological plane, for those who are gifted in that manner of insight into things, and in a practical, real-world sense -- i.e., Coptic people
should go to EO liturgies, and vice versa, while respecting the reality that we are not yet officially in communion. Tasbeha should ring out in Greek churches with Egyptian visitors, and our monasteries should welcome the equivalent prayers from Greek visitors, even in the cave of St. Anthony himself, as he is our common spiritual father (I don't think its current occupant, Fr. Lazarus El Antony, would object, as before he came to the Coptic Orthodox Church he had been in a Serbian Orthodox Monastery).
God-willing, this will happen by the Lord's strength and in His time, but in the meantime we have a lot of work to do. Again, I really do think it is a matter of different mindsets by this point. I do not want to anger anyone, but there is a certain sense among OO (or maybe it's just the ones I've talked to/known?) that on a certain level, you guys are to us as the Roman Catholics are to you: 'intellectual' in a way that is foreign to us, seeing councils differently, being rigid and cold to anything that is not from within your own tradition, etc. I don't think such a characterization is necessarily very fair or accurate in all cases, but I have definitely run into EO individuals (including some who presented themselves online as priests;
NOT FATHER MATT -- a different guy I tried to talk to on CAF, before I was banned there for not being friendly enough about Islam and Roman Catholicism) for whom it is absolutely fitting, at least with regard to the kinds of statements they would make (with full 'knowledge' of OO practices and/or history that they clearly did not understand or even describe correctly in a secular/temporal/non-polemical fashion; I dunno...maybe they read a Wikipedia or Orthodoxwiki article about them once, and then they're an expert; there's an Egyptian saying that's meant to be about reading the Bible, but I think also applies here, in a slightly different way:
"The letter kills" ). I am 1,000% sure that the same phenomenon exists among OO, though I have not personally run into anything from priests beyond skipping one of the commemorations in the Tasbeha for a saint who they said was "added under Byzantine pressure", which I thought was weird at the time and my priest thought was weird when I got back home and told him about it (it was when I was visiting a different state, in another diocese), since the saint is definitely recognized within our communion, and has been since forever. Lord have mercy. Again, so much work to do. Sorry this post was so long. That probably doesn't help.
And I much preferred Catholicism in Mexico to how it is in the United States. That's definitely for another thread, though.
