Is the Fetus a Human Being?

Adi-Buddha

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When men strive together and hit a pregnant woman, so that her children come out, but there is no harm, the one who hit her shall surely be fined, as the woman's husband shall impose on him, and he shall pay as the judges determine. But if there is harm, then you shall pay life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.
Exodus 21: 22 - 25

Apparently, in God's eyes the fetus is not a human being. Therefore, the abortion is not the murder.
 

bcbsr

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When men strive together and hit a pregnant woman, so that her children come out, but there is no harm, the one who hit her shall surely be fined, as the woman's husband shall impose on him, and he shall pay as the judges determine. But if there is harm, then you shall pay life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.
Exodus 21: 22 - 25

Apparently, in God's eyes the fetus is not a human being. Therefore, the abortion is not the murder.
To me the verse says the opposite of what you're saying. If the child is born harmed, then he shall pay life for life. Therefore abortion is murder.

Luke 1:
41 And it happened, when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, that the babe leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.
42 Then she spoke out with a loud voice and said, "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb!
43 "But why is this granted to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
44 "For indeed, as soon as the voice of your greeting sounded in my ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.
 
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Gell

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Apparently, in God's eyes the fetus is not a human being.
I’m confused. Where in the scriptures did it say that the fetus is not human?
Be careful of presuppositions
The heart is deceitful above all things.
 
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redleghunter

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When men strive together and hit a pregnant woman, so that her children come out, but there is no harm, the one who hit her shall surely be fined, as the woman's husband shall impose on him, and he shall pay as the judges determine. But if there is harm, then you shall pay life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.
Exodus 21: 22 - 25

Apparently, in God's eyes the fetus is not a human being. Therefore, the abortion is not the murder.
Actually what you quoted is the very first recorded fetal homicide law. Here's why:

Exodus 21: King James Version (KJV)

22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.

23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,

24 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,

25 Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

Now another word for word literal translation from a modern English version.

Exodus 21: NASB


"If men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that she gives birth prematurely, yet there is no injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman's husband may demand of him, and he shall pay as the judges decide. But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.
Exodus 21:22-25 NASB
http://bible.com/100/exo.21.22-25.NASB


Now we take a look at the Hebrew lexicon.



If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.

So that her fruit:

Hebrew: יֶלֶד yeled

The KJV translates Strongs H3206 in the following manner:child (72x), young man (7x), young ones (3x), sons (3x), boy (2x), fruit (1x), variant (1x).


child, son, boy, offspring, youth

  1. child, son, boy
  2. child, children
  3. descendants
  4. youth
Yeled is not not miscarriage nor still birth, it's a live child.

Is there a Hebrew word for miscarriage and stillborn? Yes and it is not Yeled.

Exodus 23: KJV


26 There shall nothing cast their young, nor be barren, in thy land: the number of thy days I will fulfil.

The above now in the Hebrew lexicon:
שָׁכֹל shakol


The KJV translates Strongs H7921 in the following manner:bereave (10x),barren(2x), childless (2x), cast young(2x), cast a calf (1x), lost children (1x),rob of children(1x), deprived (1x), misc (5x).


שָׁכֹלshâkôl, shaw-kole'; a primitive root; properly, to miscarry, i.e. suffer abortion; by analogy, to bereave (literally or figuratively):—bereave (of children), barren, cast calf (fruit, young), be (make) childless, deprive, destroy, × expect, lose children, miscarry, rob of children, spoil.


So we can see shakol is not used in Exodus 21:22ff.

Yaled is alive; shakol is miscarriage.


Now of course we do know with modern medical technology we become a new distinct human being at conception:

The question as to when the physical material dimension of a human being begins is strictly a scientific question, and fundamentally should be answered by human embryologists�not by philosophers, bioethicists, theologians, politicians, x-ray technicians, movie stars, or obstetricians and gynecologists. The question as to when a human person begins is a philosophical question. Current discussions on abortion, human embryo research (including cloning, stem cell research, and the formation of mixed-species chimeras), and the use of abortifacients involve specific claims as to when the life of every human being begins. If the "science" used to ground these various discussions is incorrect, then any conclusions will be rendered groundless and invalid. The purpose of this article is to focus primarily on a sampling of the "scientific" myths, and on the objective scientific facts that ought to ground these discussions. At least it will clarify what the actual international consensus of human embryologists is with regard to this relatively simple scientific question. In the final section, I will also address some "scientific" myths that have caused much confusion within the philosophical discussions on "personhood."

https://www.princeton.edu/~prolife/articles/wdhbb.html

"Embryo: The developing individual between the union of the germ cells and the completion of the organs which characterize its body when it becomes a separate organism.... At the moment the sperm cell of the human male meets the ovum of the female and the union results in a fertilized ovum (zygote), a new life has begun.... The term embryo covers the several stages of early development from conception to the ninth or tenth week of life."
[Considine, Douglas (ed.).
Van Nostrand's Scientific Encyclopedia. 5th edition. New York: Van Nostrand Reinhold Company, 1976, p. 943]


"I would say that among most scientists, the word 'embryo' includes the time from after fertilization..."
[Dr. John Eppig, Senior Staff Scientist, Jackson Laboratory (Bar Harbor, Maine) and Member of the NIH Human Embryo Research Panel -- Panel Transcript, February 2, 1994, p. 31]


"The development of a human begins with fertilization, a process by which the
spermatozoon from the male and the oocyte from the female unite to give rise to a new organism, the zygote."
[Sadler, T.W.
Langman's Medical Embryology. 7th edition. Baltimore: Williams & Wilkins 1995, p. 3]


"The question came up of what is an embryo, when does an embryo exist, when does it occur. I think, as you know, that in development, life is a continuum.... But I think one of the useful definitions that has come out, especially from Germany, has been the stage at which these two nuclei [from sperm and egg] come together and the membranes between the two break down."
[Jonathan Van Blerkom of University of Colorado, expert witness on human embryology before the NIH Human Embryo Research Panel -- Panel Transcript, February 2, 1994, p. 63]


"Zygote. This cell, formed by the union of an ovum and a sperm (Gr.
zyg tos, yoked together), represents the beginning of a human being. The common expression 'fertilized ovum' refers to the zygote."
[Moore, Keith L. and Persaud, T.V.N.
Before We Are Born: Essentials of Embryology and Birth Defects. 4th edition. Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders Company, 1993, p. 1]


"The chromosomes of the oocyte and sperm are...respectively enclosed within
female and malepronuclei. These pronuclei fuse with each other to produce the single, diploid, 2N nucleus of the fertilized zygote. This moment of zygote formation may be taken as the beginning or zero time point of embryonic development."
[Larsen, William J.
Human Embryology. 2nd edition. New York: Churchill Livingstone, 1997, p. 17]


"Although life is a continuous process, fertilization is a critical landmark because, under ordinary circumstances, a new, genetically distinct human organism is thereby formed.... The combination of 23 chromosomes present in each pronucleus results in 46 chromosomes in the
zygote. Thus the diploid number is restored and the embryonic genome is formed. The embryo now exists as a genetic unity."
[O'Rahilly, Ronan and M�ller, Fabiola.
Human Embryology & Teratology. 2nd edition. New York: Wiley-Liss, 1996, pp. 8, 29. This textbook lists "pre-embryo" among "discarded and replaced terms" in modern embryology, describing it as "ill-defined and inaccurate" (p. 12}]


"Almost all higher animals start their lives from a single cell, the fertilized ovum (zygote)... The time of fertilization represents the starting point in the life history, or ontogeny, of the individual."
[Carlson, Bruce M.
Patten's Foundations of Embryology. 6th edition. New York: McGraw-Hill, 1996, p. 3]


https://www.princeton.edu/~prolife/articles/embryoquotes2.html
 
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SPF

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Great post above by redleghunter.

As Christians this should actually be one of those topics where we are in universal agreement.

1) All humans are created in the image of God and possess inherent moral worth and value for their entire lives.
2) Human beings begin their existence and 25 year development process at fertilization.

Conclusion: Human beings possess moral worth and value, and are created in the image of God from fertilization.
 
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SeventyOne

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To me the verse says the opposite of what you're saying. If the child is born harmed, then he shall pay life for life. Therefore abortion is murder.

This.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Apparently, in God's eyes the fetus is not a human being. Therefore, the abortion is not the murder.
It is often not realized that to murder a fetus requires (it seems) hate ,
and may include not only hating God (Who gave the Life in the Womb that could be Eternal),
and possibly hating the mom-to-be,
and hating the life inside mom even though the life did no wrong and there's no reason in God's Providence to hate it,
and self-hate (for no one who loves their own life could so callously take another so-defenseless life),
and hating Torah, Yahweh's Instructions for all who are His,

yes, too much hate involved in killing a life God has granted,
and
as Jesus says, to hate like this , even if not acted upon, is already murder, punishable by God's Judgment, including final Judgment,
because, also, it reveals a heart unregenerated, unloving, opposed to God, opposed to Jesus, opposed to the mom....
and so much , so much more....

therefore, guilty on many counts, in God's Word and Plan.....
 
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Southernscotty

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Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations."
This also tells us something, Does it not.
 
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Dave G.

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Let me just ask it this way: is the fetus something other than human, is it a dog or cat, a fish perhaps, maybe a bird ? You know what it is, just because there is a layer of the mothers skin covering it over doesn't make it something else.
 
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Aldebaran

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Let me just ask it this way: is the fetus something other than human, is it a dog or cat, a fish perhaps, maybe a bird ? You know what it is, just because there is a layer of the mothers skin covering it over doesn't make it something else.

Just as I brought up in a related thread, the fetus is just as much human whether inside or outside the womb just as a woman's heart, appendix or liver is still a heart, appendix or liver and doesn't suddenly become something else if they were removed from the woman's body.
 
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SkyWriting

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When men strive together and hit a pregnant woman, so that her children come out, but there is no harm, the one who hit her shall surely be fined, as the woman's husband shall impose on him, and he shall pay as the judges determine. But if there is harm, then you shall pay life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.
Exodus 21: 22 - 25

Apparently, in God's eyes the fetus is not a human being. Therefore, the abortion is not the murder.
It sounds totally secular to me. A harmed baby is certainly a burden for the mother. So if the baby is harmed, the mother should be compensated and the abuser punished. I don't see any higher message from God at all.
 
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Phil 1:21

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Great post above by redleghunter.

As Christians this should actually be one of those topics where we are in universal agreement.

1) All humans are created in the image of God and possess inherent moral worth and value for their entire lives.
2) Human beings begin their existence and 25 year development process at fertilization.

Conclusion: Human beings possess moral worth and value, and are created in the image of God from fertilization.
I agree. It seems completely hypocritical for someone to wear the label "Christian" while supporting the "right" of someone to butcher an unborn baby.
 
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Adi-Buddha

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I’m confused. Where in the scriptures did it say that the fetus is not human?
Be careful of presuppositions
The heart is deceitful above all things.
This is not presupposition. "Fetus" is a Greek word if I am correct. It was not used in Biblical times for obvious reason. The other word is "embrio"
It is often not realized that to murder a fetus requires (it seems) hate ,
and may include not only hating God (Who gave the Life in the Womb that could be Eternal),
and possibly hating the mom-to-be,
and hating the life inside mom even though the life did no wrong and there's no reason in God's Providence to hate it,
and self-hate (for no one who loves their own life could so callously take another so-defenseless life),
and hating Torah, Yahweh's Instructions for all who are His,

yes, too much hate involved in killing a life God has granted,
and
as Jesus says, to hate like this , even if not acted upon, is already murder, punishable by God's Judgment, including final Judgment,
because, also, it reveals a heart unregenerated, unloving, opposed to God, opposed to Jesus, opposed to the mom....
and so much , so much more....

therefore, guilty on many counts, in God's Word and Plan.....
Based on the text that I quoted I do not see the fetus as a living thing. Thus I am pro-choice
 
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Adi-Buddha

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I agree. It seems completely hypocritical for someone to wear the label "Christian" while supporting the "right" of someone to butcher an unborn baby.
Apparently we are not in agreement although we all are Christians. According to the latest Pew research
To me the verse says the opposite of what you're saying. If the child is born harmed, then he shall pay life for life. Therefore abortion is murder.

Luke 1:
41 And it happened, when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, that the babe leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.
42 Then she spoke out with a loud voice and said, "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb!
43 "But why is this granted to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
44 "For indeed, as soon as the voice of your greeting sounded in my ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.
Is English your second language?
 
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brinny

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When men strive together and hit a pregnant woman, so that her children come out, but there is no harm, the one who hit her shall surely be fined, as the woman's husband shall impose on him, and he shall pay as the judges determine. But if there is harm, then you shall pay life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.
Exodus 21: 22 - 25

Apparently, in God's eyes the fetus is not a human being. Therefore, the abortion is not the murder.

Yet HE Himself knits each little, forming baby, created in His image together.

Isn't that true?

It IS written.

Is it not?
 
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grasping the after wind

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When men strive together and hit a pregnant woman, so that her children come out, but there is no harm, the one who hit her shall surely be fined, as the woman's husband shall impose on him, and he shall pay as the judges determine. But if there is harm, then you shall pay life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.
Exodus 21: 22 - 25

Apparently, in God's eyes the fetus is not a human being. Therefore, the abortion is not the murder.

I simply do not see that in this passage. "Children" are not human beings? At no point in this passage is there anything remotely implying that a fetus is not a human being. There is nothing there that one could possibly point to that would lead one to come to that conclusion.
 
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brinny

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This is not presupposition. "Fetus" is a Greek word if I am correct. It was not used in Biblical times for obvious reason. The other word is "embrio"
Based on the text that I quoted I do not see the fetus as a living thing. Thus I am pro-choice

Thing?

What IS a baby, growing in their mother's belly then?
 
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brinny

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I agree. It seems completely hypocritical for someone to wear the label "Christian" while supporting the "right" of someone to butcher an unborn baby.

Indeed.

They might want to read again what is written about God's abhorrence for the shedding of innocent blood.

It's written as one of the 7 things that God hates.
 
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Adi-Buddha

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For some reason I cannot finish my posts, something is wrong with either the computer that I am using or with the website's LAN.
I'll try again. According to the lat
Is the Fetus a Human Being?

What comes to mind for me is this question:

Were YOU a human being when you were forming in your mother's belly?

(There's more questions. I'll wait till you respond.)
No I was not a human being at that time.
 
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