EXACTLY WHY MOST CHURCHES TODAY ARE SPIRITUALLY DEAD !

[John tower]

1 THESSALONIANS 5(19) : ” Quench not the spirit .” : What exactly does this mean , and just exactly what do we have to do to quench the spirit ? 1 CORINTHIANS 14(26) : ” Brethren when you come together EVERY ONE OF YOU hath a psalm , hath a doctrine , hath a revelation , etc , let all things be done unto edifying .” This passage is talking about when the church comes together , and it says that EVERY ONE IS SUPPOSED TO SPEAK for the mutual edification of all in the church ! 1 CORINTHIANS 14(31) : ” Ye may ALL prophesy , one by one , that ALL may learn , as the spirit of God gives revelation to EACH PERSON for the edification of all in the church !” But virtually all churches today do not follow this biblical principle but QUENCH THE MOVING OF GOD’S SPIRIT BY LIMITING SPEAKING TO ONE PERSON ONLY CALLED THE PASTOR contrary to the scriptures we have just read ! This does not allow for the free moving of God’s spirit to use whomsoever he will to speak through , but renders virtually all in the church to be silent pew warmers, only allowed to listen , but not allowed TO ACTIVELY PARTICIPATE AND CONTRIBUTE TO THE WHOLE CHURCH BODY AS A HEALTHY CHURCH IS SUPPOSED TO OPERATE ! 1 CORINTHIANS 12(7) : ” But the manifestation of the spirit is given TO EVERY MAN to profit withal .” : Not just given to the pastor , but THE SPIRIT IS GIVEN TO ” EVERY MAN ” TO PROFIT ALL ! 1 CORINTHIANS 12(11) : ” These worketh that one and the selfsame spirit dividing to ” EVERY MAN ” severally as he will.” : Not just the pastor , but ” EVERY MAN ” 1 CORINTHIANS 12(14) : ” For the body is NOT ONE MEMBER BUT MANY .” : Not just the pastor but MANY ! 1 CORINTHIANS 12(21) : ” The eye cannot say unto the hand I have no need of thee , nor again the head unto the feet , : Not just the pastor is needed , but ALL MEMBERS OF THE CHURCH ARE NEEDED ! The following verses show exactly how a true church of god should be operating : 1 CORINTHIANS 14(29-32) : 29 : ” Let the prophets speak , two or three , and let the others judge ” 30 : ” If anything be revealed to another that sitteth by , let the first hold his peace .” 31 : ” For ye may ALL PROPHESY , one by one , that all may learn , and all may be comforted . : 32 : ” The spirits of the prophets are SUBJECT TO THE PROPHETS . ” So the members of the church may ” ALL ” speak, one by one in an orderly fashion , and they are subject to the other members , NOT THE PASTOR ! So this is exactly how the Bible says a church meeting should function , and I know of no church of man that functions like this , but they all quench the spirit from moving through all the members of the church by limiting speaking to one man ! CHURCHES IN THIS STATE HAVE NO REAL MOVING OF GOD’S SPIRIT BUT ARE SPIRITUALLY DEAD ! SADLY MOST OF THE MAIN STREAM CHURCHES ARE EXACTLY IN THIS STATE ! THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE MAIN STREAM CHURCHES TODAY ! THE ONLY SOLUTION TO THIS PROBLEM IS TO FOLLOW GOD’S WORD AND LET THE BROTHERS SPEAK AND CONTRIBUTE TO THE CHURCH BODY AND NEVER AGAIN QUENCH GOD’S SPIRIT BY LIMITING SPEAKING TO ANY ONE MAN !

 

[Tutorman]

So your the judge?

 

[Tomb523]

There is truth to what you say. Just a word of caution, 1Cor references tend to be regarding specific issues with that congregation and not specifically to how the church is run. Corinth had a problem with pride among the members on "who was holier than the next guy or more deserving". If not careful, pride can sneak in when giving too much freedom to the congregation. Timothy is a good reference, but I get your point.

It was traditions of the Jews to gather and appoint someone to read from the scrolls and teach the gathered. This was generally not the Rabi, but there were other members who would monitor to assure the teachings were accurate. At my church, there is one appointed to read the passages on which the pastor would later preach. There is also Sunday school, not part of the Jewish worship service, used to allow some to teach and others to learn. Everyone should be encouraged to start their own ministry even within the church. Perhaps to host a home study during the week or even at the church...a coffee klash on Saturday mornings. Exhorting and mentoring younger members of the flock.

I think my point here is, we tend to sit back and complain rather than doing something about it. Set the example and develop your own ministry within the Church. Talk to the Pastor about how you can help and service - I'm sure he would welcome it. Most church maybe spiritually dead, but I'd submit it because many don't want to take the time to make a difference.

 

[John tower]

There is truth to what you say. Just a word of caution, 1Cor references tend to be regarding specific issues with that congregation and not specifically to how the church is run. Corinth had a problem with pride among the members on "who was holier than the next guy or more deserving". If not careful, pride can sneak in when giving too much freedom to the congregation. Timothy is a good reference, but I get your point.

It was traditions of the Jews to gather and appoint someone to read from the scrolls and teach the gathered. This was generally not the Rabi, but there were other members who would monitor to assure the teachings were accurate. At my church, there is one appointed to read the passages on which the pastor would later preach. There is also Sunday school, not part of the Jewish worship service, used to allow some to teach and others to learn. Everyone should be encouraged to start their own ministry even within the church. Perhaps to host a home study during the week or even at the church...a coffee klash on Saturday mornings. Exhorting and mentoring younger members of the flock.

I think my point here is, we tend to sit back and complain rather than doing something about it. Set the example and develop your own ministry within the Church. Talk to the Pastor about how you can help and service - I'm sure he would welcome it. Most church maybe spiritually dead, but I'd submit it because many don't want to take the time to make a difference.

Too much of yourself : not a single scripture : some people explain away any bible verse you give them with their own private reasonings or as the bible says : private interpretations : which the bible forbids , because people destroy God's word with their own reasonings , like a virus against God's word : so try scripture instead of the endless ramblings of your private reasonings !!!

 

[Tomb523]

Too much of yourself : not a single scripture : some people explain away any bible verse you give them with their own private reasonings or as the bible says : private interpretations : which the bible forbids , because people destroy God's word with their own reasonings , like a virus against God's word : so try scripture instead of the endless ramblings of your private reasonings !!!

Well, not exactly private reasoning nor was I attempting to defend any specific doctrine, so scripture quoting isn't necessary.. My explanations were more about history and organization of the synagogues and some more modern techniques to inspire people to get back into the word of God. Not sure what part you had a problem with, but much of what I wrote about comes from a variety of sources including the works of Josephus, a book entitled "Yeshua the Jewish Jesus" and other sources. While I maintain the ultimate spiritual revival comes from the Word of God (bible), my post was aimed at ways to bring more people around to its study or for someone reading it to self-motivate by taking on a purpose.

 

[Albion]

As a general statement, I cannot agree that most churches ARE, in fact, spiritually dead.

People who claim that the churches are spiritually dead seem to be of the opinion that churches which are not exactly (or close to it) like their own are, by definition, dead, that's all.

That is particularly true with Pentecostal Christians, although it is not a lot different from the churches which call all others heretical or unScriptural or even Satanic by definition.

 

[sdowney717]

Too much of yourself : not a single scripture : some people explain away any bible verse you give them with their own private reasonings or as the bible says : private interpretations : which the bible forbids , because people destroy God's word with their own reasonings , like a virus against God's word : so try scripture instead of the endless ramblings of your private reasonings !!!

People prefer their own words. They speak out from the heart. You can always tell who they are by what they say, for out from the heart the mouth speaks.

Matthew 12:37 For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”

Scripture has to be our standard, everything must be measured against a common standard or you have nothing but chaos. But of course scriptures are twisted all the time from what they actually say.

 

[Phil 1:21]

I think my point here is, we tend to sit back and complain rather than doing something about it. Set the example and develop your own ministry within the Church. Talk to the Pastor about how you can help and service - I'm sure he would welcome it. Most church maybe spiritually dead, but I'd submit it because many don't want to take the time to make a difference.

Amen, brother. Are we called to be part of the solution, or to just stand idly by pointing out the problem?

 

[sdowney717]

Amen, brother. Are we called to be part of the solution, or to just stand idly by pointing out the problem?

The problem is actually foretold in prophecy.
The end days church will experience the 'great apostasy', there is nothing you can do to prevent what God has ordained to occur, and besides His ways are perfect, so what will come to pass is His perfect will.
The elect will be saved, and the others will go to hell.
That great apostasy will usher in the revealing of the 'antichrist' and the end of this age will go out with a tremendous bang, a huge judgement of fiery wrath from God against those who do not know God and those who do not obey the gospel. (unbelievers don't obey, they do not believe in Christ).

 

[Phil 1:21]

The problem is actually foretold in prophecy.
The end days church will experience the 'great apostasy', there is nothing you can do to prevent what God has ordained to occur, and besides His ways are perfect, so what will come to pass is His perfect will.
The elect will be saved, and the others will go to hell.
That great apostasy will usher in the revealing of the 'antichrist' and the end of this age will go out with a tremendous bang, a huge judgement of fiery wrath from God against those who do not know God and those who do not obey the gospel. (unbelievers don't obey, they do not believe in Christ).

Yes, the great apostasy is foretold. And yes, there is nothing we can do to divert God's will. That does not mean, however, that a church going astray is necessarily the fulfillment of that prophesy. Churches were going astray in the first century (Corinth, Colossae etc.) and Paul was pretty emphatic about bringing them back into line.

 

[sdowney717]

Yes, the great apostasy is foretold. And yes, there is nothing we can do to divert God's will. That does not mean, however, that a church going astray is necessarily the fulfillment of that prophesy. Churches were going astray in the first century (Corinth, Colossae etc.) and Paul was pretty emphatic about bringing them back into line.

That is true. They were trying to keep the wolves away from the sheep.
But this also does fail. Peter wrote there will be false teachers among you. Paul says he knew after he left, fierce wolves would arise from their own selves to savage the sheep, and to make (more wolves) disciples after themselves by their false doctrines. Christ says many false prophets and false christ will come and many will believe the false prophets and false christs. Many will be deceived by Satan.

The elect though will be saved and all the teaching of the wolves and themselves be cast down to hell.
I dont think a wolf even knows they are one, but I suppose some do.

And that which was prophesied is exactly what we are seeing in churches and society.
Galatians 4
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise. 29 But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now. 30 Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.” 31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free.

IF you are born according to the Spirit, then you live according to the Spirit .
It is not within your choice to be both at the same time, either you are in the flesh and dead, or in the Spirit and alive to God.

To be spiritually dead, you live according to the flesh.
Romans 8
5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

 

[Tolworth John]

An interesting display of ignorance.
A kj bible user who is unaware that the translators of the king James bible would have expected One Man to stand at the front and lead the worship.

Equally interesting is the pattern found in revival, in that one man has spoken, preaching in services.

Even Pauls letters talk about an elder teaching the church.

 

[LoveofTruth]

An interesting display of ignorance.
A kj bible user who is unaware that the translators of the king James bible would have expected One Man to stand at the front and lead the worship.

Equally interesting is the pattern found in revival, in that one man has spoken, preaching in services.

Even Pauls letters talk about an elder teaching the church.

In Pauls letters and in Acts and Peters words etc we read of a plurality of elders in every church. Never do wectead of a single man called “the pastor” over the entire church who does most of the ministry and gets paid and is exalted on a platform with all the people looking towards him and looking at the back of each others heads. This very form we see today fights against the function of the church and God’s order and commands in scripture .

 

[Tolworth John]

In Pauls letters and in Acts and Peters words etc we read of a plurality of elders in every church. Never do wectead of a single man called “the pastor” over the entire church who does most of the ministry and gets paid and is exalted on a platform with all the people looking towards him and looking at the back of each others heads. This very form we see today fights against the function of the church and God’s order and commands in scripture .

And in corinthians we read about everyone having a message or a word and that it resulted in confussion.
Paul appointed leaders and in a hiararchical age would have appointed a leader.

Through out history there have been those who wanted to return the 'church' to the simplicity/pureity of the NT example.

A large part of the problem is that just about every form of church government can be supported by scripture.

Jesus told us that we should worship in 'Spirit and in Truth' if we are doing that do you think God won't hear one Christian because he dresses funnily or another because he sits in a circle, or others because a woman is leading etc etc

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Amen, brother. Are we called to be part of the solution, or to just stand idly by pointing out the problem?

If you see a parking lot full of cars each with a flat tire,
first thing is to go in and let the people know.....
actually repairing the flats is going to take a bit longer....

meanwhile, most people (seem) not to want to get involved.

 

[SonOfZion]

YESHUA speaking to the Called out ones in Ephesus commends them for hating the deeds of the nicolaitians which He also hated. Revelation 2:6

The Greek word miseo, which means to hate, to abhor.

The name “Nicolaitans” is from from the Greek nikolaos to conquer or to subdue and word laos is the people. where the word laity comes from

Lord's over the laity

If you want to see the nicolatians of today, look no further than a pulpit.

They stand above the congregation, extraordinarily so in the RCC pulpits, they're screwed.

stand when the phoney man walks in, sit when he says sit, and he doesn't even have to say simon says to get the sheeple to do it.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

QUOTE="John tower, post: 72919623, member: 408107"]1 THESSALONIANS 5(19) : ” Quench not the spirit .” : What exactly does this mean , and just exactly what do we have to do to quench the spirit ? 1 CORINTHIANS 14(26) : ” Brethren when you come together EVERY ONE OF YOU hath a psalm , hath a doctrine , hath a revelation , etc , let all things be done unto edifying .” This passage is talking about when the church comes together , and it says that EVERY ONE IS SUPPOSED TO SPEAK for the mutual edification of all in the church ! 1 CORINTHIANS 14(31) : ” Ye may ALL prophesy , one by one , that ALL may learn , as the spirit of God gives revelation to EACH PERSON for the edification of all in the church !” But virtually all churches today do not follow this biblical principle but QUENCH THE MOVING OF GOD’S SPIRIT BY LIMITING SPEAKING TO ONE PERSON ONLY CALLED THE PASTOR contrary to the scriptures we have just read ! This does not allow for the free moving of God’s spirit to use whomsoever he will to speak through , but renders virtually all in the church to be silent pew warmers, only allowed to listen , but not allowed TO ACTIVELY PARTICIPATE AND CONTRIBUTE TO THE WHOLE CHURCH BODY AS A HEALTHY CHURCH IS SUPPOSED TO OPERATE ! 1 CORINTHIANS 12(7) : ” But the manifestation of the spirit is given TO EVERY MAN to profit withal .” : Not just given to the pastor , but THE SPIRIT IS GIVEN TO ” EVERY MAN ” TO PROFIT ALL ! 1 CORINTHIANS 12(11) : ” These worketh that one and the selfsame spirit dividing to ” EVERY MAN ” severally as he will.” : Not just the pastor , but ” EVERY MAN ” 1 CORINTHIANS 12(14) : ” For the body is NOT ONE MEMBER BUT MANY .” : Not just the pastor but MANY ! 1 CORINTHIANS 12(21) : ” The eye cannot say unto the hand I have no need of thee , nor again the head unto the feet , : Not just the pastor is needed , but ALL MEMBERS OF THE CHURCH ARE NEEDED ! The following verses show exactly how a true church of god should be operating : 1 CORINTHIANS 14(29-32) : 29 : ” Let the prophets speak , two or three , and let the others judge ” 30 : ” If anything be revealed to another that sitteth by , let the first hold his peace .” 31 : ” For ye may ALL PROPHESY , one by one , that all may learn , and all may be comforted . : 32 : ” The spirits of the prophets are SUBJECT TO THE PROPHETS . ” So the members of the church may ” ALL ” speak, one by one in an orderly fashion , and they are subject to the other members , NOT THE PASTOR ! So this is exactly how the Bible says a church meeting should function , and I know of no church of man that functions like this , but they all quench the spirit from moving through all the members of the church by limiting speaking to one man ! CHURCHES IN THIS STATE HAVE NO REAL MOVING OF GOD’S SPIRIT BUT ARE SPIRITUALLY DEAD ! SADLY MOST OF THE MAIN STREAM CHURCHES ARE EXACTLY IN THIS STATE ! THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE MAIN STREAM CHURCHES TODAY ! THE ONLY SOLUTION TO THIS PROBLEM IS TO FOLLOW GOD’S WORD AND LET THE BROTHERS SPEAK AND CONTRIBUTE TO THE CHURCH BODY AND NEVER AGAIN QUENCH GOD’S SPIRIT BY LIMITING SPEAKING TO ANY ONE MAN ![/QUOTE
You might ask this thread be moved to the controversial section.

 

[John tower]

YESHUA speaking to the Called out ones in Ephesus commends them for hating the deeds of the nicolaitians which He also hated. Revelation 2:6

The Greek word miseo, which means to hate, to abhor.

The name “Nicolaitans” is from from the Greek nikolaos to conquer or to subdue and word laos is the people. where the word laity comes from

Lord's over the laity

If you want to see the nicolatians of today, look no further than a pulpit.

They stand above the congregation, extraordinarily so in the RCC pulpits, they're screwed.

stand when the phoney man walks in, sit when he says sit, and he doesn't even have to say simon says to get the sheeple to do it.

YESHUA speaking to the Called out ones in Ephesus commends them for hating the deeds of the nicolaitians which He also hated. Revelation 2:6

The Greek word miseo, which means to hate, to abhor.

The name “Nicolaitans” is from from the Greek nikolaos to conquer or to subdue and word laos is the people. where the word laity comes from

Lord's over the laity

If you want to see the nicolatians of today, look no further than a pulpit.

They stand above the congregation, extraordinarily so in the RCC pulpits, they're screwed.

stand when the phoney man walks in, sit when he says sit, and he doesn't even have to say simon says to get the sheeple to do it.

Amen brother : 1 John 2(27), 1 Cor 4(6)

 

[John tower]

QUOTE="John tower, post: 72919623, member: 408107"]1 THESSALONIANS 5(19) : ” Quench not the spirit .” : What exactly does this mean , and just exactly what do we have to do to quench the spirit ? 1 CORINTHIANS 14(26) : ” Brethren when you come together EVERY ONE OF YOU hath a psalm , hath a doctrine , hath a revelation , etc , let all things be done unto edifying .” This passage is talking about when the church comes together , and it says that EVERY ONE IS SUPPOSED TO SPEAK for the mutual edification of all in the church ! 1 CORINTHIANS 14(31) : ” Ye may ALL prophesy , one by one , that ALL may learn , as the spirit of God gives revelation to EACH PERSON for the edification of all in the church !” But virtually all churches today do not follow this biblical principle but QUENCH THE MOVING OF GOD’S SPIRIT BY LIMITING SPEAKING TO ONE PERSON ONLY CALLED THE PASTOR contrary to the scriptures we have just read ! This does not allow for the free moving of God’s spirit to use whomsoever he will to speak through , but renders virtually all in the church to be silent pew warmers, only allowed to listen , but not allowed TO ACTIVELY PARTICIPATE AND CONTRIBUTE TO THE WHOLE CHURCH BODY AS A HEALTHY CHURCH IS SUPPOSED TO OPERATE ! 1 CORINTHIANS 12(7) : ” But the manifestation of the spirit is given TO EVERY MAN to profit withal .” : Not just given to the pastor , but THE SPIRIT IS GIVEN TO ” EVERY MAN ” TO PROFIT ALL ! 1 CORINTHIANS 12(11) : ” These worketh that one and the selfsame spirit dividing to ” EVERY MAN ” severally as he will.” : Not just the pastor , but ” EVERY MAN ” 1 CORINTHIANS 12(14) : ” For the body is NOT ONE MEMBER BUT MANY .” : Not just the pastor but MANY ! 1 CORINTHIANS 12(21) : ” The eye cannot say unto the hand I have no need of thee , nor again the head unto the feet , : Not just the pastor is needed , but ALL MEMBERS OF THE CHURCH ARE NEEDED ! The following verses show exactly how a true church of god should be operating : 1 CORINTHIANS 14(29-32) : 29 : ” Let the prophets speak , two or three , and let the others judge ” 30 : ” If anything be revealed to another that sitteth by , let the first hold his peace .” 31 : ” For ye may ALL PROPHESY , one by one , that all may learn , and all may be comforted . : 32 : ” The spirits of the prophets are SUBJECT TO THE PROPHETS . ” So the members of the church may ” ALL ” speak, one by one in an orderly fashion , and they are subject to the other members , NOT THE PASTOR ! So this is exactly how the Bible says a church meeting should function , and I know of no church of man that functions like this , but they all quench the spirit from moving through all the members of the church by limiting speaking to one man ! CHURCHES IN THIS STATE HAVE NO REAL MOVING OF GOD’S SPIRIT BUT ARE SPIRITUALLY DEAD ! SADLY MOST OF THE MAIN STREAM CHURCHES ARE EXACTLY IN THIS STATE ! THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE MAIN STREAM CHURCHES TODAY ! THE ONLY SOLUTION TO THIS PROBLEM IS TO FOLLOW GOD’S WORD AND LET THE BROTHERS SPEAK AND CONTRIBUTE TO THE CHURCH BODY AND NEVER AGAIN QUENCH GOD’S SPIRIT BY LIMITING SPEAKING TO ANY ONE MAN ![/QUOTE
You might ask this thread be moved to the controversial section.

Nothing controversial here : just all scripture

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Nothing controversial here : just all scripture

The rules / guidelines on this man-created forum call some of this controversial and can result in sudden disappearance in this section, but is not subject to that in the controversial section, by rule of site.