Seeker Friendly Progressive Churches

[Dan1988]

A friend of mine challenged me to consider joining him on a mission to find a Church where they preach the Bible faithfully.

We were both attending a Catholic Church, before we decided that the teaching was not Biblical in many ways. I won't go into all the errors we found, as it would take too long to list them and to add all the supporting scriptures.

I wanted to discuss the modern Churches and the direction in which they are heading. We visited many churches and usually came home disappointed with the preaching and our ears ringing from the loud armature Church rock bands.

We found most of them were trying to give the congregation what they wanted, such as good music, expensive coffee machines, comfortable seats and very friendly people.

While they were very friendly and provided entertainment, they failed to preach the whole Gospel. The vast majority only preached the parts of Gospel which speak of Gods love, mercy and prosperity. They never mentioned sin or judgement.

We asked some of the pastors why they didn't preach the whole counsel of God and we got a lot of interesting responses, ranging from. "That old fashioned fire and brimstone preaching wouldn't go down well in this town", to "we feed them milk at first and then slowly introduce meat", but the truth is they always stick with milk.

I know the world has changed, we have a lot of gay people in the Churches and many new age types, who like to add human wisdom and science to the Bible and create a kind of man made gospel that everyone can accept and relate to.

Thank the Lord, we eventually found a faithful Bible based Church where the whole counsel of God is preached.

The pastor mentioned in his sermon on Sunday, that we should prepare for persecution and soon he won't be allowed to legally preach about Biblical things like the sin of Sodomy and abortion.

The faithful Churches will be forced to stop preaching about sin, because it offends people. The liberals will impose their world view on Churches and stop them from preaching the whole counsel of God.

The future looks bleak for the Church, we might have to go underground soon.

 

[Tolworth John]

Have a read of:-
https://www.christianitytoday.com/e...round-for-theology-not-music-or-preacher.html

and look at the 'shipoffools web site for there mystry worshipper form.
Then go back over those churches and complete the form:-
Were you greeted on arrival, did people explain where to go, was the service clear, preachiung relevent, did people speak to you before and after the service etc.

Provide feed back to these churches and keep looking.

To be awkward ask questions of the congragation like how does the preachiung affect your behaviour?
Is the sermon relevant todays problems?
Ask the preacher the same questions.

 

[Halbhh]

A friend of mine challenged me to consider joining him on a mission to find a Church where they preach the Bible faithfully.

We were both attending a Catholic Church, before we decided that the teaching was not Biblical in many ways. I won't go into all the errors we found, as it would take too long to list them and to add all the supporting scriptures.

I wanted to discuss the modern Churches and the direction in which they are heading. We visited many churches and usually came home disappointed with the preaching and our ears ringing from the loud armature Church rock bands.

We found most of them were trying to give the congregation what they wanted, such as good music, expensive coffee machines, comfortable seats and very friendly people.

While they were very friendly and provided entertainment, they failed to preach the whole Gospel. The vast majority only preached the parts of Gospel which speak of Gods love, mercy and prosperity. They never mentioned sin or judgement.

We asked some of the pastors why they didn't preach the whole counsel of God and we got a lot of interesting responses, ranging from. "That old fashioned fire and brimstone preaching wouldn't go down well in this town", to "we feed them milk at first and then slowly introduce meat", but the truth is they always stick with milk.

I know the world has changed, we have a lot of gay people in the Churches and many new age types, who like to add human wisdom and science to the Bible and create a kind of man made gospel that everyone can accept and relate to.

Thank the Lord, we eventually found a faithful Bible based Church where the whole counsel of God is preached.

The pastor mentioned in his sermon on Sunday, that we should prepare for persecution and soon he won't be allowed to legally preach about Biblical things like the sin of Sodomy and abortion.

The faithful Churches will be forced to stop preaching about sin, because it offends people. The liberals will impose their world view on Churches and stop them from preaching the whole counsel of God.

The future looks bleak for the Church, we might have to go underground soon.

A crucial thing to learn and remember is we are not fighting against people -- simply other people who we see as the problem, other sinners -- "liberals", "prosperity gospel preachers", "fundamentalists", "Catholics", "homosexuals" (or pick your favorite sin to target here)....

No.

That's not the actual opponent we face, not the actual battle believers are in.

We are all sinners relying on His Grace and saving power.

The actual contest is this one --

11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. 12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.
13 Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. 14 Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, 15 and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. 16I n addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17 Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God."


We should welcome the sinners into our churches, because a church is for so many like a hospital, a place to come to get saving medicine. Welcome sinners, come and hear! Bring the liberals, and the conservatives, one and all, and bring them to hear the saving good news.

 

[Saucy]

Personally I don't care about the music or coffee machines. True worship of God isn't a few songs on Sunday morning, but how you live your life every day. Whether the music is upbeat with a drum or just hymnals doesn't matter. A lot of people like more 'traditional' styles, but that's all personal preference. The problem is, people tend to think their personal preference is more holy and gets them closer to God.

One of the pastors who taught at my bible college literally said drums are evil and we should never have anything but hymnals and maybe a light guitar. But how is that biblical? Even in Old Testament times, they had multiple instruments playing in worship to Him, including drums.

I think you hit the nail on the head when you mentioned how they preach. I'm non-denominational because I don't believe in the various different denominations who do it all differently, teach different doctrines, etc. I go to a bible church that teaches the bible, not man-made tradition. How the rest of the service is doesn't matter as much as the message and the work the church does for the community. THAT is what matters.

 

[Dan1988]

A crucial thing to learn and remember is we are not fighting against people -- simply other people who we see as the problem, other sinners -- "liberals", "prosperity gospel preachers", "fundamentalists", "Catholics", "homosexuals" (or pick your favorite sin to target here)....

No.

That's not the actual opponent we face, not the actual battle believers are in.

We are all sinners relying on His Grace and saving power.

The actual contest is this one --

11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. 12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.
13 Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. 14 Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, 15 and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. 16I n addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17 Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God."


We should welcome the sinners into our churches, because a church is for so many like a hospital, a place to come to get saving medicine. Welcome sinners, come and hear! Bring the liberals, and the conservatives, one and all, and bring them to hear the saving good news.

Please don't get me wrong, I love all sinners. Christ taught us to love even our enemies, so of' course I love all kinds of sinners.

I was trying to point out that a Church shouldn't water down the Gospel to make it acceptable and palatable enough for every kind of sinner to add it to his lifestyle.

The Gospel is confronting to a sinner if it's preached faithfully, I know it shook me to my foundations when I first heard it being preached faithfully.

If we love sinners of every kind, then we will share the Gospel with them even if it offends them. If we only tell them about Gods love for sinners, they may walk away with the impression that they can continue to live a life of sin and God will always love them.

 

[Kevin Snow]

We must hold true to what we have attained in Christ. There will be a revival when the return of God to Israel occurs. We all can live out our faith in truth and in private until the end. Even if they should kill us we will only be at rest then. But we must continue to gain ground in our faith and so separate ourselves from these wicked people. We will stumble but we must walk in white. For so it says about us in the time of the end:

and some of the wise shall stumble, so that they may be refined, purified, and made white, until the time of the end, for it still awaits the appointed time. ~Daniel 11:35

 

[A_Thinker]

We asked some of the pastors why they didn't preach the whole counsel of God and we got a lot of interesting responses, ranging from. "That old fashioned fire and brimstone preaching wouldn't go down well in this town", to "we feed them milk at first and then slowly introduce meat", but the truth is they always stick with milk.

One must remember that the Sunday morning hour is often, by necessity, milk-based. Because that is where the gospel is presented to possible new-borns.

Meat is presented at other points (perhaps Bible Study) ...

 

[Albion]

Dan1928, you seem to have resolved your problem and are now simply telling us how it went, but the thought that occurred to me is that you went from one end of the denominational spectrum straight to the other when looking for the solution. Something of a frying pan and fire situation. I am sure that there are quite a few churches that would have worked for you.

 

[Dan1988]

Personally I don't care about the music or coffee machines. True worship of God isn't a few songs on Sunday morning, but how you live your life every day. Whether the music is upbeat with a drum or just hymnals doesn't matter. A lot of people like more 'traditional' styles, but that's all personal preference. The problem is, people tend to think their personal preference is more holy and gets them closer to God.

One of the pastors who taught at my bible college literally said drums are evil and we should never have anything but hymnals and maybe a light guitar. But how is that biblical? Even in Old Testament times, they had multiple instruments playing in worship to Him, including drums.

I think you hit the nail on the head when you mentioned how they preach. I'm non-denominational because I don't believe in the various different denominations who do it all differently, teach different doctrines, etc. I go to a bible church that teaches the bible, not man-made tradition. How the rest of the service is doesn't matter as much as the message and the work the church does for the community. THAT is what matters.

I find it really amazing that we only have one Gospel of Jesus Christ, and around 40,000 denominations. I'm not sure if that figure is accurate but I've heard people quote that number a few times. It would still be disturbing to me if it was only 40

Our priest from the Catholic Church, told us as we were leaving that the worst thing the Catholic Church did was to give the Bible to the public.
He said every man went away and interpreted the Bible in his own way and made a new religion that suited his private view of what the scriptures mean. He argued that we were leaving the Church which Christ Himself established, to join a man made religion.

I replied, let every man be a liar and let God be true and we waked away. So if our pastor preaches something other than Gods Word, we will confront him but thankfully he has been faithful thus far.

 

[Saucy]

Yeah my main problem with the Catholic church is they teach tradition-centered and not bible-centered. They make fun of you and even lash out at you for being bible alone. The vast majority of Catholic doctrine isn't scriptural at all, yet they tell people they're the one true church Christ established. He didn't establish the Catholic church.

 

[Kevin Snow]

One must remember that the Sunday morning hour is often, by necessity, milk-based. Because that is where the gospel is presented to possible new-borns.

Meat is presented at other points (perhaps Bible Study) ...

See this is fundamentally wrong to what church was originally formed for. The church is a fellowship of believers, NOT an evangelist mission. The church's primary function in meeting together is for the discipleship of believers. Evangelism is to be done outside. It doesn't mean unbelievers can't be saved in church but it means they would need to see what it is we do in our own right, on our own terms.

I wrote a short sermon about this in my blog. If interested it will give insight into what the church is really supposed to be doing.

https://www.christianforums.com/blogs/the-church-doesnt-justify-the-ministry.58625/

 

[Albion]

Our priest from the Catholic Church, told us as we were leaving that the worst thing the Catholic Church did was to give the Bible to the public.
He said every man went away and interpreted the Bible in his own way and made a new religion that suited his private view of what the scriptures mean. He argued that we were leaving the Church which Christ Himself established, to join a man made religion.

I am not surprised that he would have offered you such a sour send-off, but none of what he said is actually true, you know. I expect that your reaction was to think that your decision to leave was certainly the right one.

 

[Kevin Snow]

Our priest from the Catholic Church, told us as we were leaving that the worst thing the Catholic Church did was to give the Bible to the public.
He said every man went away and interpreted the Bible in his own way and made a new religion that suited his private view of what the scriptures mean.

There is a grain of truth in this, I believe. But it was obviously necessary since the Catholic church was corrupt. The principle of separation of church and state was given by Yahshua when he said "my kingdom is not of this world." When the Catholic church was really established through Constantine, we know that this was the beginning of a church that denied the words of God.

 

[Albion]

One must remember that the Sunday morning hour is often, by necessity, milk-based. Because that is where the gospel is presented to possible new-borns.

Meat is presented at other points (perhaps Bible Study) ...

In the typical congregation of whatever denomination, 95% of the people are members and longtime Christians. If the pastor is so shortsighted as to think he is preaching to a bunch of seekers, he is really missing the boat and will certainly leave many people in his flock poorly served.

 

[Dan1988]

Dan1928, you seem to have resolved your problem and are now simply telling us how it went, but the thought that occurred to me is that you went from one end of the denominational spectrum straight to the other when looking for the solution. Something of a frying pan and fire situation. I am sure that there are quite a few churches that would have worked for you.

I'm sure that true believers can worship God in Churches where the Bible is not preached faithfully. God doesn't judge the individual, by their Pastor or Minister.

We were looking for a conservative Church, which was as close to the New Testament Church as possible. I didn't leave the Catholic Church to settle in a charismatic Church, or some Church that concentrates on making the individual feel special. I believe Church is about worshiping God and not indulging oneself in music and dancing or listening to a self improvement sermon.

 

[Albion]

I'm sure that true believers can worship God in Churches where the Bible is not preached faithfully. God doesn't judge the individual, by their Pastor or Minister.

Maybe, but that wasn't my point. I wasn't saying that every church has its good and weak points or that many, many churches would serve you better than the one you left. Nothing like that.

We were looking for a conservative Church, which as close to the New Testament Church as possible. I didn't leave the Catholic Church to settle in a charismatic Church, or some Church that concentrates on making the individual feel special. I believe Church is about worshiping God and not indulging oneself in music and dancing or listening to a self improvement sermon.

I totally agree, but when I read this:

I wanted to discuss the modern Churches and the direction in which they are heading. We visited many churches and usually came home disappointed with the preaching and our ears ringing from the loud armature Church rock bands.

We found most of them were trying to give the congregation what they wanted, such as good music, expensive coffee machines, comfortable seats and very friendly people.

I thought that you went right to that kind of church rather than to one that most of us would think of when reading "conservative", Bible-preaching, etc. Anyway, youre satisfied with the one you found, so that's the main thing.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I find it really amazing that we only have one Gospel of Jesus Christ, and around 40,000 denominations. I'm not sure if that figure is accurate but I've heard people quote that number a few times. It would still be disturbing to me if it was only 40

Our priest from the Catholic Church, told us as we were leaving that the worst thing the Catholic Church did was to give the Bible to the public.
He said every man went away and interpreted the Bible in his own way and made a new religion that suited his private view of what the scriptures mean. He argued that we were leaving the Church which Christ Himself established, to join a man made religion.

I replied, let every man be a liar and let God be true and we waked away. So if our pastor preaches something other than Gods Word, we will confront him but thankfully he has been faithful thus far.

So, how do you guarantee that you understand the Bible fully, clearly and accurately? Do you have a hermeneutical method you'd like to share with the rest of us?

 

[Albion]

So, how do you guarantee that you understand the Bible fully, clearly and accurately? Do you have a hermeneutical method you'd like to share with the rest of us?

No one of any denomination can do that, you know.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

No one of any denomination can do that, you know.

Shhhhhhhh, Albion! You're giving it all away with your spoiler!

 

[Kevin Snow]

Shhhhhhhh, Albion! You're giving it all away with your spoiler!

It's actually by his Spirit that we know the truth.

This is the disciple who is bearing witness about these things, and who has written these things, and we know that his testimony is true. ~John 21:24

Demetrius has received a good testimony from everyone, and from the truth itself. We also add our testimony, and you know that our testimony is true. ~3 John 1:12

Only those who listen to the Shepherd's voice know the truth. And they know who speaks by the Shepherd's voice because they know his voice. This is spiritually discerned. For so it says:

If anyone imagines that he knows something, he does not yet know as he ought to know.
~1 Corinthians 8:2

We are not imagining in our own selves that we have it right but we are sure of the things of God in Christ and what we have attained through him.