If gaining Salvation is a free choice, why cant losing Salvation also be a free choice?

Jennifer Rothnie

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Where is the assurance? Where is God's Promise? Where is Christ finished works? Where is the peace of conscience? In ourselves?

Is not Christ the author & finisher of our Faith? Can we undo what Christ accomplished on the Cross?

I believe the reason people leave or lose Faith, is because they never heard the Gospel of Christ for the ungodly! Or just heard a distorted and perverted version of it. That places salvation on the subjective activity that MAKES the Cross effectual! Rather than receiving the objective activity of the Cross that saves us!

Christ is the file-leader (not author) and perfecter of our faith. I've gone through that many times in the thread - repeating an interpretation pulled from a poor English mistranslation over and over is not going to change the underlying Greek, it's just going to keep discussion going in circles.

in Hebrew 1:1-2 the Greek word is 'archégos' - it means 'the first in a long procession'. This word use shows that Jesus is the originator or founder of a movement.

The book itself describes what this means in Heb 2:10-12
"In bringing many sons and daughters to glory, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists, should make the file-leader/pioneer of their salvation perfect through what he suffered. Both the one who makes people holy and those who are made holy are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers and sisters" Heb 2:10-12

Nothing in this states that Jesus just gives some people faith.

Indeed, Heb 5:7-10 focuses back on the aspect of Jesus enduring great suffering in order to become the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him. Here the word is not archégos, but rather 'aitios'. This term means cause or source, and is more similar to the term author. Note the clarifying phrase; Jesus became the cause/source of eternal salvation for all who obey Him. 'Upakouousin' is a term of action; those who listen or attend to God; those who obey or stand under what is heard.

So what we see is not Jesus becoming the author of faith, but the source of salvation for those with faith.

As for salvation, faith doesn't "make salvation effectual" - God graciously grants salvation to those with faith. It's God's action and promise based in the works of Christ that makes it effectual, not us. Salvation is the 'end result' of our faith (I Pet 1:9) - but not because faith wins it; rather because God in His sovereignty and mercy chooses to give it to those with faith. (It's like how the lamb blood didn't 'make' the Angel oThis salvation is through Christ's work on the cross. Jesus then becomes our High Priest, so His blood shed on the cross is applied to us. God raises us to new life in Christ as we die to sin and are raised to Christ in identification with Christ's death on the cross. Our salvation from death into life is granted when we turn in faith, we continue to be in God's salvation (Christ) as we believe, and we finally inherit salvation into His literal kingdom, and away from sin with new spiritual sinless bodies, at the second coming of Christ (I Pet 1:5, Heb 1:4, etc.)

As believers, our salvation is past, present, and future - and all of that through God's grace, power, and mercy by faith in Christ.
https://www.biblestudytools.com/blo...resent-and-future-of-our-salvation-1-5-6.html
http://www.ewtn.com/library/answers/pastpres.htm
 
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Jennifer Rothnie

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Actually points to the opposite, that a true believer can not fall away, but a false believer can, there are false brethren in the church too.
Here is an alternate viewpoint which supports eternal security for those truly born of God.

https://www.gotquestions.org/Hebrews-6.html

I already debunked the two offered explanations GotQuestions proposes for Heb 6:4-6, extensively, in post #75 on page #4 of this very long thread.

Some brief highlights:

With parallel scriptures given to show that taken together these terms must refer to former Christians: These Christians had seen the light (II Cor 4:6), ate of the heavenly gift (John 6:33), were made partakers in the Holy Spirit (I Cor 12:13, II Peter 1:4, Eph 3:6, Heb 3:14, Col 1:12, Phil 1:7, Eph 4:4, etc), tasted the goodness of the word of God (Psalm 38:4) shared in spiritual gifts (1 Cor 12:4), and repented (Acts 2:38), but then fell away.

While a few of these terms taken on their own might be ambiguous, all together they are not. Some of the terms (partook of the Holy Spirit, especially) can only be used of people of faith, as God doesn't give the Holy Spirit to unbelievers to begin life change.

Literally, the Greek term métoxos means to share/partake in with change afterward, that is change due to sharing. The term right before is genēthentas - showing that they were given a new birth and transitioned from one state to another! Are unbelievers made partakers of the Holy Spirit, transitioning to a new life and changing due to the indwelling Spirit? Of course not! They then very clearly fell away from their new life, repentance, sharing in the Spirit, etc.

(Fell away, also, is a very explicit Greek term here which means to fall away from what one was closely involved in - not a mere surface affiliation but intimate participation.)

Tell me where in scripture an unbeliever - even one 'faking' being a Christian, is given a new birth by God and given the Holy Spirit to share in. Maybe then you can claim these people weren't really Christians - but if that is the case then *none* of us could know we are Christians.

"You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ." Rom 8:9

If this scripture is a lie - if having the Spirit of God isn't enough to show us we belong to Christ and is something 'fake Christians' can have to, then how could any of us be certain? The idea that scripture can teach falsehood and that partaking in the Holy Spirit isn't enough to show that we are in Christ is a pretty horrifying thought.
 
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Anto9us

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then how could any of us be certain

Indeed, with this Puppet-Master god of Calvinism, and this painting with a broad brush of "Oh, they were never saved to begin with" said of all who 'fall away' -- how could anyone sing BLESSED ASSURANCE?

This "false being saved" idea -- if thought out to its logical conclusion -- results not in OSAS, but rather

OMSNSIYWRS

Once Maybe Saved Never Sure If You Were Really Saved
 
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Doveaman

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Actually points to the opposite, that a true believer can not fall away, but a false believer can, there are false brethren in the church too.
I do not see the word 'salvation' in there? So your adding it.
Salvation can be deduced by inspired logic and reason.

Salvation belongs only to those "who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age" -- (Hebrews 6:4-6)

These divine experiences only apply to believers, and not to non-believers who never shared in such divine experiences.

"It is impossible...if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting Him to public disgrace." -- (Hebrews 6:4-6)

You cannot fall away from Christ without first being a part of Christ.

You cannot be brought back to repentance unless you had repented before.

You cannot suffer loss unless you had something or someone to lose.

You cannot crucify the Son of God all over again unless He was crucified for you before.

Hebrews 6 is describing believers who fall away from Christ and cannot be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they have crucified the Son of God all over again.

I don't see how these verses can be interpreted any other way.
 
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Anto9us

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the "gotanswers" tripe has indeed been dealt with and rejected before in this thread -- I described it as two diametrically opposed hypotheses just desperately trying to SplainAway Hebrews 6 passage...

If the "fake conversion" idea was really true, and a reality to the extent that some say it is, people are not left with ETERNAL SECURITY, but rather LIFETIME INSECURITY !!
 
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Doveaman

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"According to this interpretation, the key word in the passage is if (verse 6). The writer of Hebrews is setting up a hypothetical statement: “IF a Christian were to fall away . . .” The point being made is that it would be impossible (IF a Christian falls away) to renew salvation. That’s because Christ died once for sin (Hebrews 9:28), and if His sacrifice is insufficient, then there’s no hope at all."

https://www.gotquestions.org/Hebrews-6.html
The author of this article is offering a twisted interpretation of scriptures to support his own personal belief.

An interpretation that needs interpreting is not a reliable interpretation.

The scriptures are not that complicated that it requires such mental gymnastics.
 
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Jack Meredith

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We are dead in sin until God raises us up in Christ. But when does this happen? *After* we believe in our hearts that Jesus is Lord.

"The words “it was credited to him” were written not for him alone, but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness—for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification." Rom 4:23-25

""Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we boast in the hope of the glory of God...."Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!"" Rom 5:1-10

It is only by faith in Jesus that God gives us access through Christ into His grace, leading to justification and salvation through Jesus.

"For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive [The Greek term here means to actively lay hold of with personal initiative/volition http://biblehub.com/greek/2983.htm] God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ! Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people. For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous. The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Rom 5:17-21

Our new life in Christ is subsequent to our faith (receiving the gift of grace, righteousness, justification, etc.)

Rom 6:1-11
"What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his. For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin— because anyone who has died has been set free from sin. Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God. In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus."

Our dying to sin and living to God in Jesus Christ follows our being 'buried with Him through baptism into death.' This spiritual baptism follows faith, it does not precede it.

"You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ."
Gal 3:26-27

Etc.

Reversing the order is logically nonsensical. God doesn't somehow make us alive in Christ so we can then have faith (or God just give us faith) and so only then be able to identify with Christ's death/resurrection and get new life. We must have new life to turn in faith to get new life makes no sense. Rather, sinners who turn in faith are baptized into Christ, identifying with His death by dying to sin, and then God raises them up to new life in Christ.

Your theory seems to rest on an underlying philosophical axiom, not taught in scripture, that if a dead sinner could trust in Christ's work it would somehow make faith equivalent to a boast or a work. Yet scripture teaches that faith is NOT a work of the law (albeit the work God 'requires' us to do Jn 6:28-29) and is in every way contrasted with boasting.
http://ebible.com/answers/27255?ori=167400

So on what are you basing your axiom? Speculation, philosophy, the teachings of men? There is no scripture that claims it would be a meritorious work for a sinner, a slave to sin, to repent and trust in the revealed gospel and work of Christ. There is no scripture that insists God must regenerate fallen man prior to *faith* (vs., say, that regeneration must happen before we can experience the kingdom of God which clearly follows faith and new life in Christ.)
Natural faith and saving faith are different things, just as natural birth and spiritual birth are. Jesus told Peter that his confession "Thou art the Christ..." was revealed to him by God, not by flesh or man. Consider Paul's conversion. Christ had to reveal himself; God's truth was not discoverable through natural means. We must be regenerated before we can believe, as we are in a gestational period for 9 months before we are born. We are God's workmanship, not our own. Free will is not only not possible, it is unbiblical. We are born into sin and bound in it. We cannot free ourselves; we must be saved from ourselves and to God.
 
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Anto9us

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Natural faith and saving faith are different things

What are the biblical passages which explain this difference between NATURAL FAITH and SAVING FAITH?
 
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Jennifer Rothnie

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Friendly reminder: Accusing or implying other users of not being Christian is against forum guidelines. It's one thing to critique a theory ("this teaching X doesn't seem to square with scripture Y") but quite another to start judging your fellow Christians who believe in Christ as not being justified, not accepting God's grace for salvation, not being saved, etc.

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Anto9us

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2 Thessalonians 3:2

And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith

Makes no mention of "two kinds of faith" -- just says all men have not faith -- that is not a smidgeon towards asserting there is Natural Faith vs Saving Faith
 
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Jack Meredith

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2 Thessalonians 3:2

And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith

Makes no mention of "two kinds of faith" -- just says all men have not faith -- that is not a smidgeon towards asserting there is Natural Faith vs Saving Faith
Fair enough. But all modern translations that I have looked at mistranslate a few relevant and key phrases. They all translate as "by faith in" the phrases that only the KJV and the Greek have as "by the faith of (Christ, the Son of God, Him, etc.)"
3x in Galatians 2 alone, (see especially v. 20) but all throughout Paul's letters. I am not KJV only, but it is the only English version I trust. This alone is reason enough, but there is much more. And I am very much aware of its problems.
 
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ladodgers6

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Christ is the file-leader (not author) and perfecter of our faith. I've gone through that many times in the thread - repeating an interpretation pulled from a poor English mistranslation over and over is not going to change the underlying Greek, it's just going to keep discussion going in circles.

in Hebrew 1:1-2 the Greek word is 'archégos' - it means 'the first in a long procession'. This word use shows that Jesus is the originator or founder of a movement.

The book itself describes what this means in Heb 2:10-12
"In bringing many sons and daughters to glory, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists, should make the file-leader/pioneer of their salvation perfect through what he suffered. Both the one who makes people holy and those who are made holy are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers and sisters" Heb 2:10-12

Nothing in this states that Jesus just gives some people faith.

Indeed, Heb 5:7-10 focuses back on the aspect of Jesus enduring great suffering in order to become the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him. Here the word is not archégos, but rather 'aitios'. This term means cause or source, and is more similar to the term author. Note the clarifying phrase; Jesus became the cause/source of eternal salvation for all who obey Him. 'Upakouousin' is a term of action; those who listen or attend to God; those who obey or stand under what is heard.

So what we see is not Jesus becoming the author of faith, but the source of salvation for those with faith.

As for salvation, faith doesn't "make salvation effectual" - God graciously grants salvation to those with faith. It's God's action and promise based in the works of Christ that makes it effectual, not us. Salvation is the 'end result' of our faith (I Pet 1:9) - but not because faith wins it; rather because God in His sovereignty and mercy chooses to give it to those with faith. (It's like how the lamb blood didn't 'make' the Angel oThis salvation is through Christ's work on the cross. Jesus then becomes our High Priest, so His blood shed on the cross is applied to us. God raises us to new life in Christ as we die to sin and are raised to Christ in identification with Christ's death on the cross. Our salvation from death into life is granted when we turn in faith, we continue to be in God's salvation (Christ) as we believe, and we finally inherit salvation into His literal kingdom, and away from sin with new spiritual sinless bodies, at the second coming of Christ (I Pet 1:5, Heb 1:4, etc.)

As believers, our salvation is past, present, and future - and all of that through God's grace, power, and mercy by faith in Christ.
https://www.biblestudytools.com/blo...resent-and-future-of-our-salvation-1-5-6.html
http://www.ewtn.com/library/answers/pastpres.htm[/QUOTE]

Before I reply to this post. Please explain your view of sin? And the Fall of the human race?
 
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sdowney717

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Fair enough. But all modern translations that I have looked at mistranslate a few relevant and key phrases. They all translate as "by faith in" the phrases that only the KJV and the Greek have as "by the faith of (Christ, the Son of God, Him, etc.)"
3x in Galatians 2 alone, (see especially v. 20) but all throughout Paul's letters. I am not KJV only, but it is the only English version I trust. This alone is reason enough, but there is much more. And I am very much aware of its problems.
We can be sure of Christ's own words about our salvation in Him that it is eternal and we never perish.
And the parable of the sower applies to them that fall away, only the last one of the 4 types Christ mentioned produced good fruit and only they were the ones He planted in good ground, He is the Rock of our salvation, so those were planted in Him, the others built their faith on shifting sands, ans when the rains and storms came, that beat upon their house and it collapsed, which is what happened to those of Hebrews 6, they had no real faith to endure trials.

Jesus ties His knowing us and us knowing Him with Him knowing the Father and the Father knowing Christ. John 10 here shows the power of Christ at work for His sheep as a statement of truth which can not be changed or undone.
John 10
14 I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own. 15 As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.

Jesus in John 6, john 8 and again here in John 10, tells us that some are not of His sheep
In John 6, it was some of His disciples who were following Him that were not of His sheep.

22 Now it was the Feast of Dedication in Jerusalem, and it was winter. 23 And Jesus walked in the temple, in Solomon’s porch. 24 Then the Jews surrounded Him and said to Him, “How long do You keep us in [d]doubt? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly.”

25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me. 26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, [e]as I said to you. 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.”
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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We can be sure that God's Word is always truth, every word, and His warnings about walking away from salvation are just as true as His assurance of keeping us beyond being tested too far ,
and realize that God NEVER SAYS He takes our free will away, to walk away from Jesus, until after we pass from this life.

Calling God a liar by saying not all of His Word is Truth, is pretty dangerous.

To believe the false teaching of osas, or anything like it and associated with it, requires denying much of God's Word and Plan and Purpose, as well as requires NOT LISTENING TO HIM. (worst of all)
 
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sdowney717

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If you do not bear good fruit, your end is to burnt in the fire.
Only the fourth type bore the good fruit to God. The heard with understanding and had been planted on good ground, also refer to John 6:44-45, they hear and learned of the Father so they came to Christ, they were the wheat planted by the Son in God's field.
You are either wheat in the Lord, or your tares in the devil, there is nothing about those wheat becoming the tares. When you interpret scripture, you must as primary consider Christ's doctrines, or your going to be deceived.

The Parable of the Sower Explained
18 “Therefore hear the parable of the sower: 19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside. 20 But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. 22 Now he who received seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful. 23 But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”


Those the Lord plants in His field are the wheat, and only they are brought into the Lord's house.
But these people who teach strange doctrine about wheat turning into the tares have got some explaining to do to God on the Day of Judgement.

The Parable of the Wheat and the Tares
24 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; 25 but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. 26 But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. 27 So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Do you want us then to go and gather them up?’ 29 But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.”
 
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Anto9us

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I am not KJV-only either, Jack, I don't follow all your points about 'faith in' and 'faith of'

ladodgers6 -- it seems like ALL of what you posted should be in quotes from Jennifer -- it looked really confusing, like you were repeating verbatim what she had said, after only a short portion was in the quote box by her
 
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Jennifer Rothnie

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Natural faith and saving faith are different things, just as natural birth and spiritual birth are. Jesus told Peter that his confession "Thou art the Christ..." was revealed to him by God, not by flesh or man. Consider Paul's conversion. Christ had to reveal himself; God's truth was not discoverable through natural means. We must be regenerated before we can believe, as we are in a gestational period for 9 months before we are born. We are God's workmanship, not our own. Free will is not only not possible, it is unbiblical. We are born into sin and bound in it. We cannot free ourselves; we must be saved from ourselves and to God.

On what explicit scriptures is any of this based?

'Natural faith is different than saving faith' - ? What? What do these terms even mean? I can't find the term 'natural faith' anywhere in scripture, and trying to search for saving faith merely comes up with verses about faith unto salvation (Heb 10:38-39, etc.) or verses about how people didn't have faith in God's saving power.

Faith itself doesn't save. God saves us on account of faith by the work of Christ. Faith is trust in God's salvation.

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile." Rom 1:16

Even Jesus' own name, Yehoshua, means 'Yahweh brings salvation' - so to trust in the name of Christ means to trust that God brings salvation! What we have faith in is that Jesus is the Messiah, the Saviour.

And of course Christ as Messiah was revealed to Peter by God, not man. Did man send Christ? No. God revealed Christ to the world.

"By common consent, great is the mystery of godliness: He who was revealed in the flesh was vindicated by the Spirit, was attended to by angels, was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory: I Tim 3:6

Jn 1:6-14:
There was a man sent from God whose name was John. He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light. The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God. The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth."

The original 12 apostles didn't have the gospel preached to them by people who walked with Christ. Rather, Jesus personally called them and taught them. With Paul, too, Jesus gave personal revelation to Him so that he could be effective for preaching the gospel.

Beyond this special revelation to the early Apostles, that the revelation of Christ is from God and not the teachings of men is true for all of us as well.

"My message and my preaching were not with persuasive words of wisdom, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, so that your faith would not rest on men's wisdom, but on God's power." I Cor 2:5

Yet Christ as Messiah being revealed by the Father to man doesn't mean that circumvents man's need to trust in that revelation!

There is no scripture that states we must be regenerated prior to *faith.* Nor does any scripture equate faith itself with "being born." Rather, because God graciously chooses to on account of our faith, God baptizes the believer into Christ. It is this dying to sin and God raising us with Christ that scripture considers being "born." Regeneration/Renewal is how the Spirit makes us born again to new life. (Gal 3:26-27, Rom 6:4, Col 2:9-12, etc.)

"But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name." Jn 20:31
(Not, "these things are written so that some of you may get life so you can believe.")
 
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Jennifer Rothnie

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Fair enough. But all modern translations that I have looked at mistranslate a few relevant and key phrases. They all translate as "by faith in" the phrases that only the KJV and the Greek have as "by the faith of (Christ, the Son of God, Him, etc.)"
3x in Galatians 2 alone, (see especially v. 20) but all throughout Paul's letters. I am not KJV only, but it is the only English version I trust. This alone is reason enough, but there is much more. And I am very much aware of its problems.

In the Greek 'faith in Christ' and 'faith of Christ' mean the same thing. It does not mean 'Christ's faith' like we might interpret 'of' before a noun in English. Rather, 'faith of Christ' in Greek means faith with Christ as it's object. I.E. faith in Christ. In older English 'faith of Christ' meant much the same as the Greek (faith with Christ as object) but modern English makes the prepositions more ambiguous. That is why most current translations opt for "in" as it better fits with how a modern English speaker will interpret the preposition.

I have a short essay I wrote a while back on this very topic: http://ebible.com/answers/26478?ori=167400
 
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