Discussion Dare not to call yourself spirit filled if..

[Alithis]

Your problem is that Christians sin, so are they not Christians .

i think its more thier problem .
but no, its not me
its what the scripture Unambiguously states.
it is VERY clear on the matter.

many who call themselves Christian are christian because they identify themselves as such. so we will not say they are not.

but as with the five foolish virgins
as with the man with 1 talant
as with unforgiving servant
as with the ones who say but lord
as with the 1st 2nd &3rd soil
as with the unfruitful branch
as with them who continue to williigly practice sin.
the proud ,the fearful ,the idolator the adulterer the thief ,the greedy,the dishonest,the sexually immoral
all calling themselves christian.
they wont enter the kingdom of Heaven .
its both fact and Truth.

but there is salvation its instructions are in the Gospel ,there is great hope,but its a narrow way and few find it.
we must repent,be buried by baptism into christs death that we might also live with him in his resurection ,IF we stay on the narrow way being faithful unto the end we THEN at the end recieve the crown of life which is given only to those who overcome.

 

[Tolworth John]

It is sad this is what you prefer. The problem is you have no idea, nor have you been taught - probably for generations in your past - the absolute power Christ's blood has on us to take away the sin nature. There is no excuse, though you prefer loopholes that God never provided.

Clear your mind of all those generationally cursed doctrines, if you dare, and pray that God would give you wisdom to know what God is meaning in His word, and throw out all the white-washed grace of lasciviousness, and cling to the power of blood infused grace where the freedom lies through the Holy Spirit.

The bible is brutaly honest about humanity.
Even about Christians. It does not use weak words but brutal words.

1John14: If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

Note if we say we are without sin we are liars.
Worse we do not know Jesus, the truth.
Equaly bad is claims by those who call themselfs Christian, that they do not actively commit sin are making Jesus to be a liar.

I would love not to be tormented by a guilty consence, but I know I fail at holy living. Fortunetly I have a saviour who knows my weaknesses and is willing to forgive me.

Do you know this Jesus?

 

[Tolworth John]

IF we stay on the narrow way being faithful unto the end we THEN at the end recieve the crown of life which is given only to those who overcome.

So you are saying that we earn our salvation by living a Christ like life?
See my post no 22.

We are saved only by Jesus's atonment and we are kept by him and we are constantly in need of forgiveness for our failures.

 

[1stcenturylady]

The bible is brutaly honest about humanity.
Even about Christians. It does not use weak words but brutal words.

1John14: If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

Note if we say we are without sin we are liars.
Worse we do not know Jesus, the truth.
Equaly bad is claims by those who call themselfs Christian, that they do not actively commit sin are making Jesus to be a liar.

I would love not to be tormented by a guilty consence, but I know I fail at holy living. Fortunetly I have a saviour who knows my weaknesses and is willing to forgive me.

Do you know this Jesus?

You do know don't you that 1 John 1:8-10 is about rotten humanity lying to themselves and how they can become a Christian.

Repentance from our sins to receive the Holy Spirit should be past tense in the life of a Christian. All desire for lawlessness is gone.

From what you have said, it seems you believe Jesus leaves us in the mire, letting it keep sucking us in further, just forgives us. What help is that? Where is the freedom from the mire? Here is the truth:

John 8:34-36
34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed."

Free from what? What is the subject? What are they enslaved to? Sin.

And He doesn't even leave us forgiven. He gives us His Spirit that immediately takes away all desire to sin in the flesh. That means He gives us a new nature that cannot sin willfully.

Throughout the whole Bible we see that in God's eyes there are two types of sin. Have you read my posts on that? That might help you. What we are free from is lawlessness/willful/presumptuous sin. (1 John 3:4 Sin is lawlessness) (Matthew 7:22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’) That is what Jesus made us free from. However, He also tells us about the second type we still commit when He gave us the Lord's Prayer. Forgive us our TRESPASSES/DEBTS as we forgive those who T/D against us. Leviticus 4:15 tells us trespasses are UNINTENTIONAL sin. We may not even be aware of them.

And yes, I KNOW Jesus. But what's more, He KNOWS me. It is the person you seem to think is Jesus that I don't know Him as - the one who leaves you in the mire without freeing you.

Let me ask you a question based on your concern over a guilty conscious, because that statement concerns me. (1 John 3:21) Have you ever received the baptism of the Holy Spirit? The literal one, where you experience total freedom from lawlessness? If you want to know my testimony about receiving it, I'll send it to you. It is not automatic. I had no power over sin for the first 30 years of my life in Church!

 

[1stcenturylady]

So you are saying that we earn our salvation by living a Christ like life?
See my post no 22.

We are saved only by Jesus's atonment and we are kept by him and we are constantly in need of forgiveness for our failures.

No. We don't earn salvation in our own power. We can do nothing of ourselves that is righteous. We need only yield to the guidance from the Holy Spirit. We are the car, the Holy Spirit is doing the driving. Not only that, the Holy Spirit makes the crooked places straight, for easy driving.

 

[NBB]

__warning_ Challenging toward self examination. This topic may cause feelings of being goaded TOWARDS fruitfulness by provoking us to re-evaluate our faith.
(NOTE :the terminology of provoke and goad is used in the positive sense.ie- to goad a sheep bogged down in mud.out of the mud and back onto solid ground)
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Dare not to call yourself “holy Spirit filled“ IF you do not DO as the Holy Spirit sent by the lord Jesus Wills.

There are many spirits.we must TEST the spirits.
A person can be Spirit filled .but not Holy Spirit filled.

Jesus sent the Holy Spirit. He said he will take what is of me and give it to you.
He will Not speak of himself.
Hevwill lead you into all truth (Jesus is all truth)
Jesus said -He will glorfy ME.

The holy spirit never leads us to the holy spirit.
The holy Spirit never glorifies the holy Spirit.
The holy spirit never glorifies Angels.
The Holy Spirit never leads us into sin.
The holy Spirits presence is the presence of JESUS. His presence has ZERO to do with what we “FEEL”.
The Holy Spirit never leads us into dubious worldly practices in the name of “ministries”
The Holy Spirit Only ever leads us to do the Will of the Head of the Body .
The head of the Body has openly declared his Will for his body .
It is In the great commission.

Lets not be so quick to claim we are FILLED with the Holy Spirit if we are Not DOING the will of the Lord JESUS which is the ONLY will the Holy Spirit can make known to us.

Just my experience/thoughts:
When you are filled with the Holy spirit you will know it, is not about doing but you are either filled or not. Of course if you sin the filling may leave you and that is very bad.
And the holy spirit presence has its own feel, it feels but it's not our own feelings, its like being touched by someone in the skin you definately feel it but in this case in the soul/spirit.

 

[Tolworth John]

You do know don't you that 1 John 1:8-10 is about rotten humanity lying to themselves and how they can become a Christian.

No it is about the Christian life, John is writing to Christian not nonchristian.

 

[1stcenturylady]

No it is about the Christian life, John is writing to Christian not nonchristian.

You are reading out of context.

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and there is no truth in us. 9 But if we confess our sins to God, he will keep his promise and do what is right: he will forgive us our sins and purify us from all our wrongdoing.

Once your sin has been cleansed and taken away - are you still a sinner? Once you are born of God - are you still a sinner? Once you are dead to sin - are you still a sinner?

 

[Tolworth John]

he literal one, where you experience total freedom from lawlessness?

I'll stick with what Paul taught in Romans thank you very much. That the 'good' he Paul wanted to do he didn't do, while the 'evil' he didn't want to do he did.'

You are claiming something that is not taught in the bible.

 

[Tolworth John]

You are reading out of context.

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and there is no truth in us. 9 But if we confess our sins to God, he will keep his promise and do what is right: he will forgive us our sins and purify us from all our wrongdoing.

Once your sin has been cleansed and taken away - are you still a sinner? Once you are born of God - are you still a sinner? Once you are dead to sin - are you still a sinner?

The guilt, shame etc of our sins has been dealt with by Jesus, as has the punishment, but our nature has not been changed. as v8 says we decive ourselves if we say we have no sin.
look at v9 where God deals with it.

 

[1stcenturylady]

I'll stick with what Paul taught in Romans thank you very much. That the 'good' he Paul wanted to do he didn't do, while the 'evil' he didn't want to do he did.'

You are claiming something that is not taught in the bible.

I don't mean to chuckle to myself, but I am. AGAIN, you are reading out of context. Read Paul's writing to the Romans in CONTEXT. The context is Romans 7:7 through 8:10.

Read that 10 times and get back to me.

 

[1stcenturylady]

The guilt, shame etc of our sins has been dealt with by Jesus, as has the punishment, but our nature has not been changed. as v8 says we decive ourselves if we say we have no sin.
look at v9 where God deals with it.

Where do you learn this stuff? What nonsense to think that Jesus is just going to keep you helpless and just forgiven to do it all over again. How is that becoming a child of God?

You are wrong on every point you just made. But there is a clue in your post #22. You said, I would love not to be tormented by a guilty consence, but I know I fail at holy living. Fortunetly I have a saviour who knows my weaknesses and is willing to forgive me.

I fear for you. Yes, Jesus is willing to forgive you. But have you ever actually repented as in Acts 2:38 You need help, and like it or not, and whether you ever read it, I'm going to send you my testimony. Watch for mail. I really want to help you.

 

[Alithis]

So would you say that a lot of people are deluded into thinking themselves saved when really they are not?

YES that is ABSOLUTELY the case . JESUS himself said so ... being hearers of the word only and NOT DOERS they DECEIVE THEMSELVES... so as you aptly put it, they are deluded into thinking they will be saved .they delude themselves Jesus said

 

[Alithis]

Your problem is that Christians sin, so are they not Christians .

there is a huge problem ..you stick to just a sinner saved .. but there is ZERO scripture . the apostles NEVER call the disciples "Sinners" your presenting a fully NON scriptural argument to self justify the continuance of the practice of sin.May i ask what sin it is your referring to that, as you put it " all Christians keep doing "? or are you just referring to the one you do ?

 

[Alithis]

Just my experience/thoughts:
When you are filled with the Holy spirit you will know it, is not about doing but you are either filled or not. Of course if you sin the filling may leave you and that is very bad.
And the holy spirit presence has its own feel, it feels but it's not our own feelings, its like being touched by someone in the skin you definately feel it but in this case in the soul/spirit.

sounds very new ageism . in fact the presence of the Holy Spirit has ZERO to do with feelings ,he is equally there whether you feel him or not . he ever leaves nor forsakes .people who seek for "more so called anointing"(which is false teaching in itself . are praying in the sin of unbelief and that is why they end up getting devils , unbelieving children of fearful disobedience, they neither believe god nor obey him even after receiving his Holy Spirit
receiving the holy Spirit is not the end game . JESUS IS .the holy spirit leads us always to JESUS.he is given to help comfort and teach us on this journey to the END and those who endure obediently and faithfully to the end will receive the crown of life and only those who endure to the end

 

[NBB]

sounds very new ageism . in fact the presence of the Holy Spirit has ZERO to do with feelings ,he is equally there whether you feel him or not . he ever leaves nor forsakes .people who seek for "more so called anointing"(which is false teaching in itself . are praying in the sin of unbelief and that is why they end up getting devils , unbelieving children of fearful disobedience, they neither believe god nor obey him even after receiving his Holy Spirit
receiving the holy Spirit is not the end game . JESUS IS .the holy spirit leads us always to JESUS.he is given to help comfort and teach us on this journey to the END and those who endure obediently and faithfully to the end will receive the crown of life and only those who endure to the end

Just my experience, you will definetaly feel the holy spirit when you are filled unless you are too insensitive i guess, is like filling a vessel that is us (varying degrees of filling) until is full, our faults can 'shrink' him. So yes you can loose the filling, i am not saying he totally leaves you but yes. I know pastors who preach about anionting, and he freed me in the name of Jesus of demon related spiritual problems and other things so id be careful if you call all that manifestation of demons. And seeking Jesus is something i try to do all days so i don't know why you are saying all that.

 

[1stcenturylady]

there is a huge problem ..you stick to just a sinner saved .. but there is ZERO scripture . the apostles NEVER call the disciples "Sinners" your presenting a fully NON scriptural argument to self justify the continuance of the practice of sin.May i ask what sin it is your referring to that, as you put it " all Christians keep doing "? or are you just referring to the one you do ?

Right. We are called "Saints" not "Sinners"

There is a before and after Christ that they can't see, because they are still babes on milk, and can't understand meat.

 

[NBB]

there is a huge problem ..you stick to just a sinner saved .. but there is ZERO scripture . the apostles NEVER call the disciples "Sinners" your presenting a fully NON scriptural argument to self justify the continuance of the practice of sin.May i ask what sin it is your referring to that, as you put it " all Christians keep doing "? or are you just referring to the one you do ?

We all sin, but there is sin of death and not of death. If a christian commits a sin of death then he is in trouble, and if not still we need to be forgived regurarly about those still.
After being filled with the Holy sprit you will definitely tell when you commited a sin serious enough because the Holy spirit will be offended and you may loose the filling if you continue, because the holy spirit cannot live where there is sin serious enough. So if you keep the holy spirit then is a good sign you are doing well.

 

[FIRESTORM314]

Yes you can be Spirit Filled and not Do as the Holy Spirit Wills. FACT

You are just being disobedient or lukewarm or have apathy or fear for self, putting your own interest first or even simply not understand what is asked/required of you plus many more reasons.

You can also be "hard of hearing" too. I have a cat that wiggles it ears when I shout him in and pretends he doesn't know what I am saying. It's funny - shout him in for his breakfast and he comes running.

Read the letters to the churches in Revelation - they were all Spirit Filled but Jesus had quite a bit to say to each one of them for not doing.....

Hear what the Spirit Says to the Churches , He that hath an ear let him hear.

 

[NBB]

Yes, there are many in the church that have never been baptized in the Holy Spirit. The test would be power over sin. Those who have been baptized with the Holy Spirit are DEAD TO SIN; they are no longer having to deal with the carnal nature - it is dead.

That is not true the flesh always will be there a bit killed by the Holy Spirit in some areas yes but in some degree it will be there with the devil at hand to try make you sin until you die, and we all sin see post above.