What is the purpose of home church if...

[Alithis]

What is the purpose of home church if...all we do is a miniturisation of an larger institutionlized gathering.

what is any one trying to achieve when they sit around in a weekly meeting parroting doctrine pointing out the errors of large churches?
It risks becoming a mini pity party.
i will take house church over large organized systems anyday.
BUT we gather to build up so we can then go out and DO the will of God. if we do not grow up and go out and become more house churches then gathring has lost all sensible reason.

 

[Wordkeeper]

What is the purpose of home church if...all we do is a miniturisation of an larger institutionlized gathering.

what is any one trying to achieve when they sit around in a weekly meeting parroting doctrine pointing out the errors of large churches?
It risks becoming a mini pity party.
i will take house church over large organized systems anyday.
BUT we gather to build up so we can then go out and DO the will of God. if we do not grow up and go out and become more house churches then gathring has lost all sensible reason.

Explain what doing God's will is.

 

[salt-n-light]

What is the purpose of home church if...all we do is a miniturisation of an larger institutionlized gathering.

what is any one trying to achieve when they sit around in a weekly meeting parroting doctrine pointing out the errors of large churches?
It risks becoming a mini pity party.
i will take house church over large organized systems anyday.
BUT we gather to build up so we can then go out and DO the will of God. if we do not grow up and go out and become more house churches then gathring has lost all sensible reason.

Size doesn't matter, when it comes to the intent of the heart of those in the midst, even the most ideal settings can be soul- draining.

 

[JIMINZ]

Just a general question for anyone who feels like answering.

In a Home (House) Church 25 - 50 people, (kids included) how long would you feel a Sunday or any day of the week evening Meeting should be?

Would you consider or even attend a Sunday Meeting, if it was from sun up to whenever (10 - 11 pm)?

 

[Alithis]

Explain what doing God's will is.

his question is unusual yet incredibly common . the Lord Jesus makes his will SO CLEAR and the he had it written down so we wont forget and then he gave us his Holy Spirit and said he will bring to remembrance all he said ..
his will is that we multiply what we are .it is clear;y laid out in the great commission.

i think people don't see what is right in front of them because they don't want to.they pray lord lord please show me your will , then they read the bible, then they pray again no Lord, your other will ....

 

[Alithis]

Just a general question for anyone who feels like answering.

In a Home (House) Church 25 - 50 people, (kids included) how long would you feel a Sunday or any day of the week evening Meeting should be?

Would you consider or even attend a Sunday Meeting, if it was from sun up to whenever (10 - 11 pm)?

first ,25 its self is FAR to large . we have to back up the bus and look at WHY we gather .in the lords will he says , MAKE MORE DISCIPLES .. no one person can effectively disciple 25 people all of differing levels of understanding and maturity in Christ and in the 25 probably 60% don't really want to do much else except meet fellowship eat and go home ,no mater how often they are instructed they never actually go and do what they hear instructed from the scripture .
We gather to build one another up in the faith (should NEVER BE about 1 person talking for ages)There should ALWAYS BE dialogue

 

[Alithis]

Size doesn't matter, when it comes to the intent of the heart of those in the midst, even the most ideal settings can be soul- draining.

never is it soul draining to those in the lord Jesus who said YES to him to do his will go his way and be obedient to him
and we are not supposed to be fellow-shipping with the unrepentant or disobedient

 

[paul1149]

What is the purpose of home church if...all we do is a miniturisation of an larger institutionlized gathering.

If that's all you do, it's still a legitimate church gathering. In fact, many larger churches have started out in homes, and simply grown in size, while retaining much of the same ecclesiology all the while.

But I think for most of us, home church is an attempt to escape from an ecclesiology that wasn't working for us.

what is any one trying to achieve when they sit around in a weekly meeting parroting doctrine pointing out the errors of large churches?
It risks becoming a mini pity party.

If that's all that's happening in a home church, it is failing. The meeting should be called in the name of the Lord, and His business should be conducted therein. If all we're doing is "comparing one to another", we are "not wise". And while it is normal to talk about the differences in ecclesiology to some degree, in my experience, too much of this goes on.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

I actually happen to agree with the OP on this for what that is worth. If a person wants indoctrination go to an institutionalized church. House churches should be built on a biblical foundation, with the Holy Spirit, not a pastor(s), leading. About the numbers gag, Jesus had only 12 disciples for a reason, if the Son of God felt it necessary to keep his direct following to a minimum, I think there's something to that. With too many its easier to fall into the institutionalized churches trap. Factions, dissentions, etc. With smaller groups that meet regularly, train together its far easier for discipleship to take place. Then when that group has reached it's max in terms of training, those 12 then form their own groups or at least break off into several others. Point is discipleship and multiplication just as the earliest did it.

Jesus had 12 and then when they were ready they went and formed their own disciples who then replicated that, etc.

 

[Alithis]

If that's all you do, it's still a legitimate church gathering. In fact, many larger churches have started out in homes, and simply grown in size, while retaining much of the same ecclesiology all the while.

But I think for most of us, home church is an attempt to escape from an ecclesiology that wasn't working for us.



If that's all that's happening in a home church, it is failing. The meeting should be called in the name of the Lord, and His business should be conducted therein. If all we're doing is "comparing one to another", we are "not wise". And while it is normal to talk about the differences in ecclesiology to some degree, in my experience, too much of this goes on.

the doing of his will , is working to increase the kingdom of heaven ,not gathering to read script sing songs and eat lunch

 

[dqhall]

What is the purpose of home church if...all we do is a miniturisation of an larger institutionlized gathering.

what is any one trying to achieve when they sit around in a weekly meeting parroting doctrine pointing out the errors of large churches?
It risks becoming a mini pity party.
i will take house church over large organized systems anyday.
BUT we gather to build up so we can then go out and DO the will of God. if we do not grow up and go out and become more house churches then gathring has lost all sensible reason.

I attended a Bible study at a lady's house during the 1980's. It was within walking distance of where I lived. It was without high overhead expenses and no collection was taken up.

I think the quality of teaching is more important than the size of the house or church.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

I actually happen to agree with the OP on this for what that is worth. If a person wants indoctrination go to an institutionalized church. House churches should be built on a biblical foundation, with the Holy Spirit, not a pastor(s), leading. About the numbers gag, Jesus had only 12 disciples for a reason, if the Son of God felt it necessary to keep his direct following to a minimum, I think there's something to that. With too many its easier to fall into the institutionalized churches trap. Factions, dissentions, etc. With smaller groups that meet regularly, train together its far easier for discipleship to take place. Then when that group has reached it's max in terms of training, those 12 then form their own groups or at least break off into several others. Point is discipleship and multiplication just as the earliest did it.

Jesus had 12 and then when they were ready they went and formed their own disciples who then replicated that, etc.

I think your reading more into the reason for 12 disciples than is actually there. Every church, whether house or institutional, has to be built on biblical foundation or it's a different religion altogether. The difference I hear you saying for house churches is that it's Holy Spirit led. Again any pastor/priest etc. worth their salt for giving life to the church is Spirit-led. The lack in institutional churches is that they restrict the Spirit's movement away from the body, which is not biblical of Christ's earliest example.
A prophesy heard at a biblically based church summed it up for me ... "the church is for training to go into the world to bring forth His word to those who would not hear it otherwise" It brings to mind 'you may be the only bible someone may ever read' Are we truth bearers or not as individuals?

 

[Wordkeeper]

his question is unusual yet incredibly common . the Lord Jesus makes his will SO CLEAR and the he had it written down so we wont forget and then he gave us his Holy Spirit and said he will bring to remembrance all he said ..
his will is that we multiply what we are .it is clear;y laid out in the great commission.

i think people don't see what is right in front of them because they don't want to.they pray lord lord please show me your will , then they read the bible, then they pray again no Lord, your other will ....

Multiply disciples?

Explain what a disciple is.

 

[Alithis]

I actually happen to agree with the OP on this for what that is worth. If a person wants indoctrination go to an institutionalized church. House churches should be built on a biblical foundation, with the Holy Spirit, not a pastor(s), leading. About the numbers gag, Jesus had only 12 disciples for a reason, if the Son of God felt it necessary to keep his direct following to a minimum, I think there's something to that. With too many its easier to fall into the institutionalized churches trap. Factions, dissentions, etc. With smaller groups that meet regularly, train together its far easier for discipleship to take place. Then when that group has reached it's max in terms of training, those 12 then form their own groups or at least break off into several others. Point is discipleship and multiplication just as the earliest did it.

Jesus had 12 and then when they were ready they went and formed their own disciples who then replicated that, etc.

yes indeed. this is what is missed so often . the whole point is NOT to get large and popular but to grow up your spiritual family then and then out to get spiritual families of their own . And this is where growing them from babes in the faith up to mature people in the faith happens . and no one learns to walk as Christ walked except they get up and try . seeing people 5 or worse 10 years in the faith who are still bottle fed and crawling around church institutions like 20 yr old in diapers is more then shame full

 

[Alithis]

Multiply disciples?

Explain what a disciple is.

a disciple is an active trainee learning by both information and PRACTICE to do and become what their teacher/master IS and DOES.In modern term the closest we have to describe this is an Apprentice
we are to forsake all our own ways and become like Our master and teacher JESUS.( id we dont then Jesus said we cant be his disciple (because it would be like going to university to become a lawyer but then never turning up because your to busy doing other stuff ) Jesus took 12 initially and both taught them and SHOWED them how to Go and heal the sick and preach the Gospel ,drive out devils and baptize (interesting that he had them baptizing people in water -will revisit this point ) then he sends them out ahead of them to practice what they are learning and the return rejoicing after seeing people get healed and devils get cast out .{thats not the be all and end all of being his disciple /apprentice ,its the basic innards of a believing life in the faith ALL believers are to do all this }
A bookwork only approach has never taught people to DO as Jesus said and it is the utter failure of so called bible schools who only do bookwork, dissecting the book into ambiguity and producing actionless trainees full of theory who know nothing of the action of a disciple of Jesus . ie they don't GO and do as the disciples did and they cant teach any one else to.

 

[Alithis]

I think your reading more into the reason for 12 disciples than is actually there. Every church, whether house or institutional, has to be built on biblical foundation or it's a different religion altogether. The difference I hear you saying for house churches is that it's Holy Spirit led. Again any pastor/priest etc. worth their salt for giving life to the church is Spirit-led. The lack in institutional churches is that they restrict the Spirit's movement away from the body, which is not biblical of Christ's earliest example.
A prophesy heard at a biblically based church summed it up for me ... "the church is for training to go into the world to bring forth His word to those who would not hear it otherwise" It brings to mind 'you may be the only bible someone may ever read' Are we truth bearers or not as individuals?

the error here is , we are NEVER called to build the "body " (what you referred to as church ) Jesus never told us to build his body . he said I WILL.
but he directly commands us to make more disciples and this is done through the procedure he also commands
first GO heal the sick ,preach the gospel, drive out devils baptize in hos name and then ...then you have a disciple to teach him to observe (do and obey)All Jesus commanded and they then go also and heal the sick etc and then make their own disciples too, teaching them also to go and do ALL Jesus said to do- recurring .

 

[Alithis]

gathering together is for the purpose of edification teaching and training ,so if we are inactive in any exterior action of practical application of the Gospel then we gather together to almost NO benefit,we are neither obeying God nor are we able to teach others how to Obey God .because we cannot train a person is what we do not practice . every one knows a child will do as you do not as you say.
gathering together has NEVER been just for the sake of gathering together .

if I was able to train each of you to make one disciple a year. Then the disciple you made was capable of making one disciple a year, and their disciples would also make one disciple a year.”

…after one year, there would we twenty disciple-makers.
…after two years, there would be 40 disciple-makers.
…after three years, there would be 80 disciple-makers.
…after four years, there would be 160 disciple-makers.
…after five years, there would be 320 disciple-makers.
…after ten years, there would be 10,240 disciple-makers.
…after fifteen years, there would be 327,680 disciple-makers.
…after seventeen years, there would be 1,310,720 disciple-makers… more than the population of Zanzibar!
…after twenty-two years, there would be 41,943,040 disciple-makers… more than the population of Tanzania!
…after twenty-seven years, there would be 1,342,177,280 disciple-makers… more than the population of Africa!
…after thirty years, there would be 10,737,418,240 disciple-makers… more than the population of the planet!

each home church which should never be more then 10 people is to grow up thier little spiritual family in the work of the gospel and send them out to get thier own spiritual families and grow them up too

 

[JIMINZ]

first ,25 its self is FAR to large . we have to back up the bus and look at WHY we gather .in the lords will he says , MAKE MORE DISCIPLES .. no one person can effectively disciple 25 people all of differing levels of understanding and maturity in Christ and in the 25 probably 60% don't really want to do much else except meet fellowship eat and go home ,no mater how often they are instructed they never actually go and do what they hear instructed from the scripture .
We gather to build one another up in the faith (should NEVER BE about 1 person talking for ages)There should ALWAYS BE dialogue

.
My original thinking years ago was 12, only because it was Biblical.

But when you look at the reality of the 12 concept, you talking about 12 men.

I revised what I had thought and decided 25 persons that would include two parents with approximately 3 children each.

Therefore is you had 6 couples that would be 12 adults, and 18 children of all ages, but then again, if you split the congregation in half when you reached 12 adults, you would always have only 6 adults because of the splitting process.

Therefore there would need to be for practical purposes more than 12 adults, that is why I said up to 50, which would allow for a split to take place and remain a viable body.

My further thought on the matter was, once a month, all of the groups which had split off from the original group would meet, and then all of the groups which had split from those groups would also be included in a meeting, thereby maintaining the continuity of the body.

You would also have to take into account how big the City you live in.

We have to remember, there were more than just the 12, following Jesus, maybe there were only 12 actually being discipled by Jesus, because 12 is a comfortable number for one person to teach, also 12 is the number of Authority.

Anyhow, I found that a hard and fast rule of 12 is an impractical number, as I have said, there are other factors to take into consideration in today's day and age.

But overall I believe the concept would still work if followed correctly.

 

[Alithis]

.
My original thinking years ago was 12, only because it was Biblical.

But when you look at the reality of the 12 concept, you talking about 12 men.

I revised what I had thought and decided 25 persons that would include two parents with approximately 3 children each.

Therefore is you had 6 couples that would be 12 adults, and 18 children of all ages, but then again, if you split the congregation in half when you reached 12 adults, you would always have only 6 adults because of the splitting process.

Therefore there would need to be for practical purposes more than 12 adults, that is why I said up to 50, which would allow for a split to take place and remain a viable body.

My further thought on the matter was, once a month, all of the groups which had split off from the original group would meet, and then all of the groups which had split from those groups would also be included in a meeting, thereby maintaining the continuity of the body.

You would also have to take into account how big the City you live in.

We have to remember, there were more than just the 12, following Jesus, maybe there were only 12 actually being discipled by Jesus, because 12 is a comfortable number for one person to teach, also 12 is the number of Authority.

Anyhow, I found that a hard and fast rule of 12 is an impractical number, as I have said, there are other factors to take into consideration in today's day and age.

But overall I believe the concept would still work if followed correctly.

i think your missing a whole lot of points -i hope the discussion addresses a lot of then as it goes on

 

[Wordkeeper]

a disciple is an active trainee learning by both information and PRACTICE to do and become what their teacher/master IS and DOES.In modern term the closest we have to describe this is an Apprentice
we are to forsake all our own ways and become like Our master and teacher JESUS.( id we dont then Jesus said we cant be his disciple (because it would be like going to university to become a lawyer but then never turning up because your to busy doing other stuff ) Jesus took 12 initially and both taught them and SHOWED them how to Go and heal the sick and preach the Gospel ,drive out devils and baptize (interesting that he had them baptizing people in water -will revisit this point ) then he sends them out ahead of them to practice what they are learning and the return rejoicing after seeing people get healed and devils get cast out .{thats not the be all and end all of being his disciple /apprentice ,its the basic innards of a believing life in the faith ALL believers are to do all this }
A bookwork only approach has never taught people to DO as Jesus said and it is the utter failure of so called bible schools who only do bookwork, dissecting the book into ambiguity and producing actionless trainees full of theory who know nothing of the action of a disciple of Jesus . ie they don't GO and do as the disciples did and they cant teach any one else to.

Your views missed the real definition :

Luke 14
33 In the same way, none of you can be my disciples unless you give up everything.

Being born again, repenting, is changing from serving selfish needs, mammon for earthly provision to serving God for heavenly provision with earthly provision added automatically.

Serving God is picking up your cross everyday

Jesus picked up His cross everyday.

Did He die everyday?

How is picking up a cross serving God?