- Feb 25, 2018
- 141
- 159
- 26
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Calvinist
- Marital Status
- Single
- Politics
- US-Democrat
I'm a Calvinist, who has a big problem with the Arminian/ semi-Pelagian soteriology espoused by non-Calvinists, be they Methodists, Roman Catholics, Orthodoxy believers, Assemblies of God folks, etc.
ILLOGICAL
Let's start with these propositions.
1. God is the all-powerful Creator of us all.
2. God is all-wise; He does not make mistakes.
3. God is all-knowing.
Taken together, this means that God knowingly, willingly and deliberately creates billions of people who He knows will suffer eternal agony and torment in the fires of Hell, He creates the reprobate with full knowledge of their eternal fate beforehand.
And according to the non-Calvinist, God desires the salvation of every single human being who lives and ever will live without exception.
But why would an all-knowing, all-wise, all-powerful God created the souls of billions of people that He knows fully well, before He even creates them, will reject His Son Jesus as Savior, and die in their sins and be consigned to everlasting torment in a fiery dungeon, Hell, if that were the case?
Does He create them in the hopes that they will believe on Him? Obviously not, because He is omniscient, has perfect, infallible knowledge, and has always known that they will not believe on Him. By creating the souls of these people with perfect knowledge they will never believe, that means that He is essentially sealing their fate by the mere act of creating them.
So it makes no sense to say that He truly desires their salvation when He intentionally creates them in such circumstances with the knowledge that they will never believe.
UNBIBLICAL
The Bible makes it crystal-clear that the reason why we believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and His Gospel is because God the Father determines beforehand that we will, He predestines us to be Christians and holy and have refuge under His Son. Repentance is something God grants us, it's a gift, so is our faith. It also teaches double predestination.
2 Timothy 2:25 - in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth,
Jeremiah 1:5 - Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nation.
Acts 13:48 - Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed. [Probably the best Calvinist verse: we are appointed to eternal life, and then we believe the Gospel, not the other way around. God chooses, elects ordains us to life everlasting, and then we believe. Really goes with Ephesians and Romans 9:11]
Ephesians 1:4-5 - just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
Ephesians 1:11 - In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,
Galatians 1:15 - But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb and called me through His grace,
2 Timothy 1:8-9 - Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me His prisoner, but share with me in the sufferings for the gospel according to the power of God, who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,
Proverbs 16:4 - The Lord has made all for Himself, Yes, even the wicked for the day of doom.
Romans 9:11 - (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls),
Romans 9:21-23
Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?
What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory,
Romans 8:28-30 - And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
Now, non-Calvinists will often point to small prooftexts in order to prove that Jesus died and paid for the sins of every single person who lives in the world without exception, using verses such as 1 Timothy 2:3-4, 2 Peter 3:9, 1 John 2:2, where the words "whole world" or "all men" are used, and it says God desires "all men" to be saved.
If you quote the whole of 2 Peter 3 instead of that one verse, you'll see it's talking about a definite group, not every single person in the world without exception:
2 Peter 3:1-9
Beloved, I now write to you this second epistle (in both of which I stir up your pure minds by way of reminder), that you may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us, the apostles of the Lord and Savior, knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.” For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
The author is talking about as specific group here; namely, born-again believers in Jesus Christ, of which he is a part, "you" the "beloved", "us". When he says that God is not willing that any should perish but that all should repent, it also says that He is longsuffering toward "us", and the us is referring to the elect, to believers, it's not referring to every single human being in the world. God is not willing that any of *us* should perish, any of the believers in His Son Jesus Christ. The passage is directed to the elect, God's chosen children.
But when read in context, it is clear that when it says all men, it is referring to all men without distinction, men from every social status, ethnic group, and nation. Jesus paid for the sins of all types of people from every race, economic wealth, etc. The following verse exemplifies this:
Revelation 5:9 -
And they sang a new song, saying:
"You are worthy to take the scroll,
And to open its seals;
For You were slain,
And have redeemed us to God by Your blood
Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,"
“I got home late last night to find that someone had eaten all the cookies.”
“The mother told her child that she expected all the dishes to be washed.”
“There’s a guy in my office that talks about politics all the time.”
Obviously, we all the common sense to realize that the people are not saying that every single dish that exists on planet Earth, or every cookie that exists, was eaten by the child or washed by the child.
Scripture must mesh with other Scripture. And other Scripture makes it clear that God died for a definite group of people and predestines people to salvation, others to damnation.
We evangelize because God has ordained the means as well as the ends, because faith comes by hearing.
ILLOGICAL
Let's start with these propositions.
1. God is the all-powerful Creator of us all.
2. God is all-wise; He does not make mistakes.
3. God is all-knowing.
Taken together, this means that God knowingly, willingly and deliberately creates billions of people who He knows will suffer eternal agony and torment in the fires of Hell, He creates the reprobate with full knowledge of their eternal fate beforehand.
And according to the non-Calvinist, God desires the salvation of every single human being who lives and ever will live without exception.
But why would an all-knowing, all-wise, all-powerful God created the souls of billions of people that He knows fully well, before He even creates them, will reject His Son Jesus as Savior, and die in their sins and be consigned to everlasting torment in a fiery dungeon, Hell, if that were the case?
Does He create them in the hopes that they will believe on Him? Obviously not, because He is omniscient, has perfect, infallible knowledge, and has always known that they will not believe on Him. By creating the souls of these people with perfect knowledge they will never believe, that means that He is essentially sealing their fate by the mere act of creating them.
So it makes no sense to say that He truly desires their salvation when He intentionally creates them in such circumstances with the knowledge that they will never believe.
UNBIBLICAL
The Bible makes it crystal-clear that the reason why we believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and His Gospel is because God the Father determines beforehand that we will, He predestines us to be Christians and holy and have refuge under His Son. Repentance is something God grants us, it's a gift, so is our faith. It also teaches double predestination.
2 Timothy 2:25 - in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth,
Jeremiah 1:5 - Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nation.
Acts 13:48 - Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed. [Probably the best Calvinist verse: we are appointed to eternal life, and then we believe the Gospel, not the other way around. God chooses, elects ordains us to life everlasting, and then we believe. Really goes with Ephesians and Romans 9:11]
Ephesians 1:4-5 - just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
Ephesians 1:11 - In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,
Galatians 1:15 - But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb and called me through His grace,
2 Timothy 1:8-9 - Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me His prisoner, but share with me in the sufferings for the gospel according to the power of God, who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,
Proverbs 16:4 - The Lord has made all for Himself, Yes, even the wicked for the day of doom.
Romans 9:11 - (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls),
Romans 9:21-23
Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?
What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory,
Romans 8:28-30 - And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
Now, non-Calvinists will often point to small prooftexts in order to prove that Jesus died and paid for the sins of every single person who lives in the world without exception, using verses such as 1 Timothy 2:3-4, 2 Peter 3:9, 1 John 2:2, where the words "whole world" or "all men" are used, and it says God desires "all men" to be saved.
If you quote the whole of 2 Peter 3 instead of that one verse, you'll see it's talking about a definite group, not every single person in the world without exception:
2 Peter 3:1-9
Beloved, I now write to you this second epistle (in both of which I stir up your pure minds by way of reminder), that you may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us, the apostles of the Lord and Savior, knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.” For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
The author is talking about as specific group here; namely, born-again believers in Jesus Christ, of which he is a part, "you" the "beloved", "us". When he says that God is not willing that any should perish but that all should repent, it also says that He is longsuffering toward "us", and the us is referring to the elect, to believers, it's not referring to every single human being in the world. God is not willing that any of *us* should perish, any of the believers in His Son Jesus Christ. The passage is directed to the elect, God's chosen children.
But when read in context, it is clear that when it says all men, it is referring to all men without distinction, men from every social status, ethnic group, and nation. Jesus paid for the sins of all types of people from every race, economic wealth, etc. The following verse exemplifies this:
Revelation 5:9 -
And they sang a new song, saying:
"You are worthy to take the scroll,
And to open its seals;
For You were slain,
And have redeemed us to God by Your blood
Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,"
“I got home late last night to find that someone had eaten all the cookies.”
“The mother told her child that she expected all the dishes to be washed.”
“There’s a guy in my office that talks about politics all the time.”
Obviously, we all the common sense to realize that the people are not saying that every single dish that exists on planet Earth, or every cookie that exists, was eaten by the child or washed by the child.
Scripture must mesh with other Scripture. And other Scripture makes it clear that God died for a definite group of people and predestines people to salvation, others to damnation.
We evangelize because God has ordained the means as well as the ends, because faith comes by hearing.