Matthew 25:46

FineLinen

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According to the context (and only the context) of St. Matthew chapter 25, what qualifies a "goat nation" & what qualifies a "sheep nation"?

Answers=

1. A goat nation receives "everlasting punishment" because>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>??

2. A sheep nation qualifies for "everlasting life">>>>>>>>>>>??
 

amariselle

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According to the context (and only the context) of St. Matthew chapter 25, what qualifies a "goat nation" & what qualifies a "sheep nation"?

Answers=

1. A goat nation receives "everlasting punishment" because>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>??

2. A sheep nation qualifies for "everlasting life">>>>>>>>>>>??

First of all, I do not agree with the interpretation that there are entire "sheep nations" and "goat nations", but rather, as the Scriptures indicate, "sheep" and "goats" within every nation on earth.

Secondly, the only thing that "qualifies" anyone to inherit eternal life is that they have done "the will of the Father" and believed on the Son. Salvation is a gift of God, by grace, through faith and not of works. Matthew 25 is often misunderstood to teach that we earn our own salvation.

Matthew 25:
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

Notice that Jesus separates the sheep from the goats prior to anything being said or any specific criteria being laid out as to what makes one a "sheep" or a "goat". Jesus knows who are His.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

We see here that the Kingdom is indeed an "inheritance" which has been prepared for the "sheep" "from the foundation of the world." An inheritance is not something the one receiving it has earned, but rather, they receive it as a gift from another who has earned it.

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

And so, after separating the "sheep" from the "goats" and telling the "sheep" that they have their "inheritance" which was prepared for them, Jesus commends them for what they did to serve Him in their lives, by doing the good works they were saved unto.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

And we read here that the "sheep" were not even aware that they had served Jesus in what they were doing. They simply went forward in the joy of their salvation and He worked through them in their lives. Their focus was clearly not on working for or earning their salvation, otherwise they would not have asked these questions.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

And the same is true for the "goats." They did not belong to Jesus and so they gave no thought to serving Him (specifically by helping believers).

In Matthew 7:21-23, however, we do read of people who boast in their "many wonderful works", which they did in Jesus' name, and Jesus tells them He never knew them.
 
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FineLinen

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First of all, I do not agree with the interpretation that there are entire "sheep nations" and "goat nations", but rather, as the Scriptures indicate, "sheep" and "goats" within every nation on earth.

Secondly, the only thing that "qualifies" anyone to inherit eternal life is that they have done "the will of the Father" and believed on the Son. Salvation is a gift of God, by grace, through faith and not of works. Matthew 25 is often misunderstood to teach that we earn our own salvation.

Matthew 25:
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

Notice that Jesus separates the sheep from the goats prior to anything being said or any specific criteria being laid out as to what makes one a "sheep" or a "goat". Jesus knows who are His.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

We see here that the Kingdom is indeed an "inheritance" which has been prepared for the "sheep" "from the foundation of the world." An inheritance is not something the one receiving it has earned, but rather, they receive it as a gift from another who has earned it.

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

And so, after separating the "sheep" from the "goats" and telling the "sheep" that they have their "inheritance" which was prepared for them, Jesus commends them for what they did to serve Him in their lives, by doing the good works they were saved unto.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

And we read here that the "sheep" were not even aware that they had served Jesus in what they were doing. They simply went forward in the joy of their salvation and He worked through them in their lives. Their focus was clearly not on working for or earning their salvation, otherwise they would not have asked these questions.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

And the same is true for the "goats." They did not belong to Jesus and so they gave no thought to serving Him (specifically by helping believers).

In Matthew 7:21-23, however, we do read of people who boast in their "many wonderful works", which they did in Jesus' name, and Jesus tells them He never knew them.
 
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FineLinen

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Amariselle: Thank you for taking the time to respond. You have presented a well thought out response (& time consuming), most certainly well beyond the usual one liners. F.L. requests an indulgence. I promise to respond more fully after others come forward with their answers. Again, thank you for your time and effort, I appreciate it! May God bless you and the remnant of His grace.
 
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FineLinen

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It is a scene at the end of this world. The people will be divided into sheep and goats. A nation does not visit someone in prison. Step back to verse 35 and see the timing for the rest of chapter 24 and all of chapter 25.

You are correct a nation does not visit someone in prison. The qualifications for "everlasting punishment" are? You can use Amariselle's post for the Scripture passage under consideration. According to the context, why is your assumption the Masters words are directed to the end of the world. Does every generation for the past 2000 yrs. not apply as well?
 
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bcbsr

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According to the context (and only the context) of St. Matthew chapter 25, what qualifies a "goat nation" & what qualifies a "sheep nation"?

Answers=

1. A goat nation receives "everlasting punishment" because>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>??

2. A sheep nation qualifies for "everlasting life">>>>>>>>>>>??
Note first that there are only two categories, not a spectrum or matters of degree. Secondly note that they were separated according to their nature - they were different creatures.

"If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature". 2Cor 5:17 Those who have been born of God are no longer the same creature as they were before.

Furthermore there is a characteristic behavior which distinguishes the two. John alludes to this in 1John 3:9,10 "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. This is how we distinguish who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother." So if a person is born of God, he will characteristically do the right thing. Those not born of God will characteristically not do so.

And this, in contrast to the machinations of salvation by works crowd that view righteous works not as an indicator but as a condition for salvation. (They themselves are in the wrong line as I see it)
 
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FineLinen

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Note first that there are only two categories, not a spectrum or matters of degree. Secondly note that they were separated according to their nature - they were different creatures.

"If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature". 2Cor 5:17 Those who have been born of God are no longer the same creature as they were before.

Furthermore there is a characteristic behavior which distinguishes the two. John alludes to this in 1John 3:9,10 "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. This is how we distinguish who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother." So if a person is born of God, he will characteristically do the right thing. Those not born of God will characteristically not do so.

And this, in contrast to the machinations of salvation by works crowd that view righteous works not as an indicator but as a condition for salvation. (They themselves are in the wrong line as I see it)
Sorry my friend, stick with the context, and only the context of Matt. 25. Did you read Amariselle's post?
 
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FineLinen

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To do so would be theologically dishonest.
Is that a fact: I believe the Master when He declares in this parable what constitutes a "sheep"& a "goat" & the outcome for both.

Every shepherd or breeder or a business has its own way but if you ask me you have to separate them not because they are different its because their intelligence levels are different. Goats are way smarter than sheep. Goats can learn the milking parlour in one week, with a sheep herd it can take a month. Goats will give them a hard time if they put in a same place together. Sheep are gentle animals but goats are stubborn animals. There are some shepherds in Turkey who take them out to pasture all together but every time I see that sheep were more crowded than goats, like for example 85 sheep with 15 goat.
 
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bcbsr

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Sorry my friend, stick with the context, and only the context of Matt. 25. Did you read Amariselle's post?
So you're saying that you interpret Mt 25 not in light of the rest of scripture, because apparently the rest of scripture contradicts your interpretation. That's not the way I recommend reading scripture, but to each his own.
 
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FineLinen

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So you're saying that you interpret Mt 25 not in light of the rest of scripture, because apparently the rest of scripture contradicts your interpretation. That's not the way I recommend reading scripture, but to each his own.
I interpret the words of Jesus in this parable in the context of what He declares. I have been contemplating His words for many moons now, and find a flow of what He says with the anointing that touched those who were touched by the quickening Presence in later days following the unction of Pentecost.
 
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FineLinen

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Chapter 25 begins with the word "Then" Then shall....ten virgins....sheep...goats...

The word "Then" shows that we need to step back into the end of chapter 24 for the proper timing of the prophecy in chapter 25. The end of ch 24 is the end of the world. At Matthew 24:35 it says....

Heaven and earth shall pass away...
verse 36
...that day
Matthew 25:1
"Then shall...ten virgins...."

The whole timing is about the events at the end of the world.
Reading this same part as written in Mark and Luke can help see that Jesus Christ switched His message to what will happen at the end of this world. See also Matthew 13. wheat/sheep tares/goats
at the end of the world
the angels will do the carrying off of the tares people

My friend, I have zero problem with these events transpiring in the closing days, none! On the other hand, what the Master declares regarding aionios life & aionios punishment cannot be related only to the closing days of this world. Does the Masters word not cover every generation and every age? If fundamentalists are so keen to send the vast segments of humanity into "everlasting punishment" we best base that on the conditions presented in said passage of the Master's words!
 
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According to the context (and only the context) of St. Matthew chapter 25, what qualifies a "goat nation" & what qualifies a "sheep nation"?

Answers=

1. A goat nation receives "everlasting punishment" because>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>??

2. A sheep nation qualifies for "everlasting life">>>>>>>>>>>??

Matthew 25:46 says:
“These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Is there some reason not to take is as it is written, righteous into eternal life and others get the eternal punishment?
 
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FineLinen

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The people that will be split into sheep and goats have not been buried in the grave.

There have been no sheep or goats until the end of the age? Surely you jest? There are a bunch of people buried in their graves (another 2 /1/2 million will join them today worldwide) And none of them have been a sheep or goat?
 
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FineLinen

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The sheep and goats are not dead people. The sheep do not come from heaven, nor the goats from hell. The people in hell are already doomed to the lake of fire. The goats people will have yet to be split apart from the righteous that never died, but remain alive at the end of the world. They are not judged for not becoming believers, they are not part of the church that was changed back at the time of the 7th trumpet. These people have lived through...Armageddon...days...the 1000 years days...the time after the final Gog war...and beyond. It is now time for the new earth...people are still alive and must be judged. It also tells how they will be cut asunder and then join the hypocrites. The Bible refers to being beaten with many stripes. It is not talking about those already in hell, but the living at the end of the world. It seems that they will be beaten to make up some that they have not first spent time in hell suffering. All of the wickeds will eventually end up in the lake of fire. The OT refers to how some will never see light...have no hope in their death. Some will never get mercy.

I hate to disclose this to you, but the Lake of Fire and theion (rooted in Theos) is the very breath of Divinity! Anything that Breath breaths on has radical change and transformation. All the "wickeds" will end up there, and the "unbelieving," but to declare there is no hope in their death is a falsehood!

Pay very close attention to the following>>>>>>>

From Him the all comes, through Him the all exists, and in Him the all ends..
 
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