3 1/2 years...

[Douggg]

Jesus went to heaven, Acts 1:11, but He promised to be with His people spiritually until He comes back physically.

When a person dies, their soul returns to the One who made it. They know nothing until they stand with all the rest of everyone who has ever lived at the Great White Throne Judgement.
When Jesus Returns, He will bring with His only the souls of those killed during the GT. They will be brought back to life. Revelation 20:4
If you can present scriptures that contradict these truths, do so, otherwise please keep your opinions [and videos] to yourself.

How do you explain then on the Mt of transfiguration, Moses and Elijah ?

 

[BABerean2]

When a person dies, their soul returns to the One who made it. They know nothing until they stand with all the rest of everyone who has ever lived at the Great White Throne Judgement.

What you are promoting sounds a lot like the "soul sleep" doctrine.


Luk_23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.


Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

.

 

[keras]

What you are promoting sounds a lot like the "soul sleep" doctrine.

What I promote is what the Bible teaches.

Psalm 146:4.... thoughts perish at death.
This cannot refer to a body without the soul, since a physical body alone does not have thoughts. Only the soul has thoughts, and they cease at death….
Many other passages [such as Psalms 6:5 and Psalms 30:9] support unconsciousness after death and do not make sense if only talking about the body….

This same message of an end of consciousness was evident when Adam sinned. God plainly told him he would return to dust, Genesis 3:19. Adam was not conscious before creation, and God made it clear he would return to that unconscious state. Thoughts occur in the brain, which stops functioning and starts decomposing at death. Thoughts perish at death, just as the Bible says in many different ways.

Solomon also supports soul unawareness:
But for him who is joined to all the living there is hope, for a living dog is better than a dead lion. For the living know that they will die; But the dead know nothing; And they have no more reward, For the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, their hatred and their envy have now perished; Nevermore will they have a share in anything done under the sun . . . Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave where you are going. Ecclesiastes 9:5-6,10

These scriptures prove there is no conscious being for people after death.
The only people who will be brought back to life, will be those martyrs killed for their faith during the 42 month period of Satan’s control of the earth. Revelation 13:5-8 Plus the two Witnesses.
The parables about Abraham and Lazarus the beggar, are just homilies and every dead persons soul returns to its Maker, where it awaits the Great White Throne Judgement, at the end of time. Revelation 20:11-15, Daniel 7:9-10

As for the thief on the cross, Jesus said to him; Today you will be with Me in paradise.
There should be a comma after ‘today’, as Jesus did not go immediately to Paradise, [heaven] at all. He meant: on this day, you have the promise of immortality. That is: your name is Written in the Book of Life, which will be opened at the Great White Throne Judgement and immortality will be conferred to those whose names are in it.

 

[keras]

How do you explain then on the Mt of transfiguration, Moses and Elijah ?

They could have been angels playing the part of Moses and Elijah. But we don't know whether they were really those people or spirit beings.
But as I post above, #183, the souls of all the dead remain unconscious until the GWT Judgement.

It is you that must prove you beliefs with scripture, rather than pulling out red herrings.

 

[BABerean2]

The parables about Abraham and Lazarus the beggar, are just homilies and every dead persons soul returns to its Maker, where it awaits the Great White Throne Judgement, at the end of time. Revelation 20:11-15, Daniel 7:9-10

In other words... Jesus did not really mean what He said in the parable of Lazarus and the beggar...

Jesus did not really mean what he said to the thief on the cross...

Jesus will not return with the souls of dead believers in 1 Thessalonians chapter 4...

1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.


John did not really see "souls" in Revelation chapter 6 or chapter 20...


Rev_6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:


Rev_20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

.

 

[seventysevens]

They could have been angels playing the part of Moses and Elijah. But we don't know whether they were really those people or spirit beings.
.

geez , angels playing the part of Moses and Elijah ? youre so far out there maybe you think they were trying out for a role in a new movie ... of course it was Moses and Elijah but not in fleshly bodies - your fables of soul sleep is not biblical - the soul/spirit of Christians that die do go to be in the presence of the Lord - the dead flesh body lies in a grave and knows nothing since the soul/spirit has left the dead body

 

[keras]

In other words... Jesus did not really mean what He said in the parable of Lazarus and the beggar...

Luke 16:19-31 is just a homily, told to warn people that only during their lifetime can salvation be gained. Its too late when you're dead.
Thinking it is literal, is akin to believing there are fairies in the garden.

Jesus did not really mean what he said to the thief on the cross...

I addressed that in #183. Do you deny that it was not for at least a week, that He Ascended to heaven?

Jesus will not return with the souls of dead believers in 1 Thessalonians chapter 4...

The only souls Jesus will bring with Him are those of the martyrs killed during the reign of the 'beast'.
Those only are brought back to life. Revelation 15:2, Revelation 20:4

John did not really see "souls" in Revelation chapter 6 or chapter 20...

Sure he did. And John saw them again in Revelation 19:1-8

Now its your turn to provide scriptural proof of your beliefs.
1/ Are the dead conscious?
2/ Is the thief on the cross in heaven now?
3/ Who will Return with Jesus? As souls and riding on white horses?
4/ What do those souls that John sees under the heavenly Altar usually do?
5/ And while you're at it; show us the scripture that says the Church will be raptured to heaven. I have asked 77's to do this, he doesn't seem to want to. Can't understand why!

 

[seventysevens]

The only souls Jesus will bring with Him are those of the martyrs killed during the reign of the 'beast'.

False , you have not learned that there are many more than those people,

Now its your turn to provide scriptural proof of your beliefs.
1/ Are the dead conscious?
2/ Is the thief on the cross in heaven now?
3/ Who will Return with Jesus? As souls and riding on white horses?
4/ What do those souls that John sees under the heavenly Altar usually do?
5/ And while you're at it; show us the scripture that says the Church will be raptured to heaven. I have asked 77's to do this, he doesn't seem to want to. Can't understand why!

The fact that you have no answers to these matters shows that you have a lot to learn about these matters -
Keras , it is really very simple , but that is also the very reason why some people don't understand it ,
Some people refuse to believe that Jesus is Almighty God in the flesh form,
Only because to them that they put restrictions on the bible text that it must be worded to their personal satisfaction - otherwise they can't understand it.

In colleges and universities they give an assessment test to determine a students ability to understand various topics - if they pass the assessment test then they are not required to take the prerequisite class courses because they have shown they do have the required level of understanding to move forward to the advanced classes - whereas some people that did not do well on the assessment tests are required to take the prerequisite classes so that they can learn the required material before they can move on to the advanced classes-

Comparing this to the Testing period that Jesus is putting the inhabitants of earth through-
Is that it is designed for those people who have not yet understood that they must repent of their sins prior to being accepted into the Lords Presence for eternity -
Simply put it is people that have repented and accepted Jesus as Lord PRIOR to the event of the "Hour of Testing that shall come " have already passed the assessment test and can move forward into the Presence of the LORD when that testing has come- not being required to go through that Testing , they are removed Prior to the Testing

People that have not repented PRIOR to the "Hour of Testing" will be required to go through it because they are being given their last chance to repent and if they still refuse to repent they will never enter into the Presence of the Lord

People who have repented and live their lives for Christ and do what Jesus requires of them to do will not go through the "Hour of Testing " that shall come because they have passed the assessment testing by accepting what Jesus taught about being "born again" and accepting Christ as their Lord .

There are no threads at all the deal with the scriptures of the Hour of Testing = Great Tribulation because of men's religious teaching that is similar to the teaching manner of the Pharisees that taught what people must do that was not biblical , but because the Pharisees were the biblical scholars of their day people simply accepted whatever they said for no other reason than the Pharisees were the holy scripture teachers of that period of time -

People today that insist that all born-again believers must go through the Hour of Testing do not understand what the Hour of Testing is designed for and preach the mindset of Religiousness and they do not understand what they say which is why the multitude of questions that have been asked literally Dozens of times to you and others you cannot answer because the Bible Never suggests that anyone that has accepted Christ as Lord Prior to the Hour of Testing will go through it -
The bible says that the Hour of Testing is for those who have not repented - but during that terrible testing some people will repent , but even so most will suffer extreme persecution and die - while many more than have repented Prior to the Hour of Testing will be kept Out of the Hour of Testing -You refuse to address the many questions that are both basic and elementary simple

 

[keras]

The fact that you have no answers to these matters shows that you have a lot to learn about these matters -

This is foolishness.
I have answered these questions. I am waiting to see if anyone can refute me, with clear and understandable scripture.

You 77's are about the worst of the lot, you posted 5 paragraphs above of your opinion. NOT ONE SCRIPTURE to support your fanciful notions.

 

[seventysevens]

You 77's are about the worst of the lot, you posted 5 paragraphs above of your opinion. NOT ONE SCRIPTURE to support your fanciful notions.

you have shown you do not understand the topics which is why you have no scripture that fits - i have shown you scripture that proves your error so many times , but you never learn from them , you just keep repeating the same error over and over
- your idea of answers is shown in post #184 where you reject the scripture outright when the HOLY Scriptures says Moses and Elijah met with Jesus - you refuse to believe truth right from the Bible as you prefer to make up your own view that is contrary to what scripture actually says

 

[BABerean2]

Sure he did. And John saw them again in Revelation 19:1-8

You admit that these are souls in heaven.

But how can you ignore the fact that they are not only awake, but also speaking?


Rev 19:1 After these things I heard a loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, saying, "Alleluia! Salvation and glory and honor and power belong to the Lord our God!
Rev 19:2 For true and righteous are His judgments, because He has judged the great harlot who corrupted the earth with her fornication; and He has avenged on her the blood of His servants shed by her."
Rev 19:3 Again they said, "Alleluia! Her smoke rises up forever and ever!"
Rev 19:4 And the twenty-four elders and the four living creatures fell down and worshiped God who sat on the throne, saying, "Amen! Alleluia!"
Rev 19:5 Then a voice came from the throne, saying, "Praise our God, all you His servants and those who fear Him, both small and great!"
Rev 19:6 And I heard, as it were, the voice of a great multitude, as the sound of many waters and as the sound of mighty thunderings, saying, "Alleluia! For the Lord God Omnipotent reigns!
Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready."
Rev 19:8 And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.

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[Dave Watchman]

.

Sorry BAB, Keras is on the right side of this one.

I'm not picking teams. Just sayin'.

Luk_23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

The multi size text, and multiple colors in these posts remind me of braille. Never sure if i should read them, or reach out my hand to feel for the text. But these posts do give me a feel for your understanding. But can i literally "FEEL" an understanding? Or is this an idiom of some kind?

"One of the criminals who were hanged railed at him, saying, “Are you not the Christ? Save yourself and us!” But the other rebuked him, saying, “Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? And we indeed justly, for we are receiving the due reward of our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong.” And he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” And he said to him,

“Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.”​

But this one's tough BAB. The authors of prophecy novels and YouTube videos can't always be trusted. This requires the use of your own neurotransmitters.

Previously, Jesus had also said that He must spend three days and nights in the heart of the earth.

"For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.​

So how is it that He can also be in paradise with the criminal on the crucifixion day, if He has a previous engagement with the "heart of the earth"? He can't. This is also confirmed during His conversation with Mary in John 20 on resurrection Sunday.

"Jesus said to her, “Woman, why are you weeping? Whom are you seeking?” Supposing him to be the gardener, she said to him, “Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have laid him, and I will take him away.” Jesus said to her, “Mary.” She turned and said to him in Aramaic, “Rabboni!” (which means Teacher). Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”​

In another post you said:

Jesus did not really mean what he said to the thief on the cross...

I would never have suggested such a thing, nor would it have entered into my mind. So logic dictates it had to be something else. If Jesus had not yet ascended to His Father by His own Word to Mary, after the completion of three days and nights in the heart of the earth, then the only other possibility is that the translators put the comma in the wrong place.

And he said to him,

“Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.”​

The punctuation, including the commas,,, were put in by the translators. Take the punctuation out for a minute and look at it again.

“Truly I say to you today you will be with me in paradise.”​

If you knew therefore and understood that it was Scripturaly impossible for Jesus to be in paradise with the criminal prior to resurrection Sunday, and prior to spending three days and three nights in the heart of the earth, then the punctuation would be more accurately placed like this:

“Truly I say to you today, you will be with me in paradise.”​

He is telling him with certainty on that day, as bad and as hopeless as that day seemed to be, that it is a sure and true thing, "you will be with me in paradise.”

The "voice" of our brothers blood.

"When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.​

Roll up your sleeves for this one BAB. This one's going to be even tougher to understand, i hope your neurotransmitters are rolled warmed up. But i can't roll up my sleeves or my neurotransmitters, i'm wearing a T shirt. The "rolling up of sleeves" is figurative, it's a figure of speech. It means get ready to get dirty, to do something difficult, intense, or demanding. We have a long day ahead, so let's roll up our sleeves and get to it. I'll do this fast, don't worry.

The Revelation 6 souls are like that. They are the personification of an inanimate object. They are not literally beneath the alter because they can't really be there. There's 75 million or more of them, their loud voices cry out to the Lord from the past, and from the ground. From the heart of the earth. These are the Foxe Book souls and the Piedmont Easter souls from the middle ages.

Piedmont Easter.

Remember what Paul said about the earthly temple being a copy and a shadow of the real one in Heaven?

"They serve at a sanctuary that is a copy and shadow of what is in heaven. ...​

And Moses was told that he see to it to make the earthly temple exactly as the pattern that was shown to him on the mountain.

So if the earthly temple had an alter of incense, and an alter of burnt offerings, the real Temple in Heaven would have those things too.

Beneath the alter of burnt offerings, there was a container there to hold the blood from the sacrifices. This is why the Revelation souls are said to be "beneath the alter". Remember, Ezekiel said: "The soul that sinneth, it shall die? It is the blood of these dead martyrs that cries out with a loud voice, it is the memory of their deaths that are crying out to the Lord here as Abel's blood cried out to the Lord from the ground.

The voice of your brothers blood.

"And the Lord said, “What have you done? The voice of your brother’s blood is crying to me from the ground.​

Did Abel's blood really cry out with an audible and literal voice? No, it didn't. This is a literary device. It is the personification of an inanimate object. It's poetic. It's beautiful. It's God speak. To those with the ears to hear.

"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,
and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;
and man became a living soul.​

Peaceful Sabbath.



.,,,

 

[BABerean2]

Previously, Jesus had also said that He must spend three days and nights in the heart of the earth.

"For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
So how is it that He can also be in paradise with the criminal on the crucifixion day, if He has a previous engagement with the "heart of the earth"? He can't.

Mat_10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

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[Davy]

I am thinking that the 70 weeks of Daniel were not fulfilled with Jesus' ministry. This is the text:
Daniel 9: 24-27 - Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. Know therefore and understand, [that] from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince [shall be] seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

In bold, (above) is the part that I think was fulfilled. Looking at the text, it seems a bit obvious that not all of it was fulfilled, but requires the arrival of the kingdom.

Since the prophecy was given about Jerusalem and Daniel's people (i.e., the Jews), those things have yet to be fulfilled today. The majority of Jews still reject our Lord Jesus, especially... in the state of Israel in the middle east. Thus there is no remission of sin by Jesus for them, yet. And if they still remain in unbelief to the end after His coming, they will be cut off. The anointing of the most holy is about the spiritual cleansing of the holy of holies, i.e., the house of Ezekiel 40 forward in the holy land that will have the "many mansions" which Jesus will build when He returns.

And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof [shall be] with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease.

One theory, is that the final 3 1/2 years was fulfilled up until the stoning of Steven. In contrast to the futurist interpretation, I think that the final part of the prophesy relates to Titus, and the Romans, and 70 AD. The he, who confirms the covenant was Jesus, cut off mid-week, and causing the sacrifice to cease.
But the idea, that the 70th week closes with the stoning of Steven, is a weak argument, and I think that perhaps this final 3 1/2 years is projected forward somehow.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

There would appear to be a tribulation associated with the return of Christ?

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

The tares are removed from the earth. The elect remain. Where is the tribulation, if the days were as in the days of Noah? The scenario is one of normality - things carrying on as usual.
Unless there is an error in the gathering of the information in Matthew 24. There can't be tribulation, and days of Noah at the same time.

What you are likely missing is with more understanding just what that time of "great tribulation" for the end of this world will be about. You're close, because you noticed Jesus was showing how the deceived will still be partying it up, in deception.

Apostle Paul showed the same thing in 1 Thess.5 about the deceived leading up to the time of the "day of the Lord" regarding a "sudden destruction" upon them when just prior they will say, "Peace and safety". Paul used the OT metaphors of how they are 'drunken' spiritually, and sleep in the night, spiritually, and when that day of destruction does come at the end, they will as a woman who travails with child (another OT spiritual metaphor God used for being deceived).

The future tribulation is upon us, Christ's Church, not the deceived. It will be a time of "Peace and safety" for the deceived (like those outside Noah's ark thinking it's business as usual before the flood comes). Antichrist will give you anything you want in that time, as long as you bow to him in place of God. By peace he will destroy many, as Daniel was shown. Antichrist is coming to play The Messiah, in Jerusalem, and that's who the orthodox Jews are expecting and preparing for. The power of miracles he will have will be strong enough to deceive the whole world (excepting Christ's elect). None in this world's history have ever done that. Our Lord Jesus only is Who did such miracle working on earth, but never to that scale of influencing the Jews to believe, nor the whole world in His time.

 

[Hiscosmicgoldfish3]

What you are likely missing is with more understanding just what that time of "great tribulation" for the end of this world will be about. You're close, because you noticed Jesus was showing how the deceived will still be partying it up, in deception.

I think that there are 3 1/2 years of distress, before the return of Christ. The antichrist is the 8th king of Revelation - he is also the 6th king, and the 8th king is also the devil.

I think that the woman gets taken to a place of safety for 3 1/2 years, during the rule of the Antichrist. The writer of Revelation (Cerinthus) called it the wilderness. Both Daniel and Revelation have 3 1/2 years. The final period of the 70 weeks was not fulfilled, only partly fulfilled - that leaves 3 1/2 years, at the end, and the rule of the antichrist.
There is a period, when things continue as normal (days of Noah) and yet there is distress at the same time, during the tribulation.
At the end of the 3 1/2 years, Christ returns with the angels, and just prior to that, the sun, moon and stars shut off all light.

9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

Although the above seems to be talking about Roman kings - with perhaps Nero or Galba (who knows?) as the king 'who is' - there might also be a future/present prophesy involved - the cryptic language of 'the beast that was, and is not' is about the devil - who is the 8th king.
It would be a lot easier if the writer had just used non-cryptic language all the time - but I think that the 8th king is the last king of the world, and there is a series of 8 kings - the 7th king only lasts a short time.

Jesus says something a bit different to the OT - he says that the stars fall to earth. During this period of darkness, I suspect that this means that fallen angels will fall to earth, before the final showdown. The tribulation period will be fairly normal to most people, going along as usual, until the return of Christ, 3 1/2 years later.

 

[Douggg]

I think that there are 3 1/2 years of distress, before the return of Christ. The antichrist is the 8th king of Revelation - he is also the 6th king, and the 8th king is also the devil.

What happened to the 7th king, in your thinking ?

 

[keras]

You admit that these are souls in heaven.

But how can you ignore the fact that they are not only awake, but also speaking?

God allows them to speak at times for His purposes. Usually those souls are resting until their number should be complete. Revelation 6:11
Like every other soul; unconscious of time, awaiting the GWT Judgement.

He is telling him with certainty on that day, as bad and as hopeless as that day seemed to be, that it is a sure and true thing, "you will be with me in paradise.”

Thanks Dave. This is proper exegesis, using all the Bible to come to the truth.

 

[Riberra]

God allows them to speak at times for His purposes. Usually those souls are resting until their number should be complete. Revelation 6:11

God have placed them in a STATE OF REST as in SLEEP (Sleep in Jesus]...the SOULS OF THE EARLY CHRISTIANS MARTYRS ie[the Apostles and the other first century Christians martyrs] were not crying anymore after that God said that they should REST...until that their number should have fulfilled its course...

awaiting the GWT Judgement.

No ,the martyrs WEARING WHITE ROBES are awaiting [in a state of rest]that God AVENGE THEIR BLOOD...WHEN THEIR NUMBER SHOULD HAVE FULFILLED ITS COURSE...

They are awakened in Revelation 7 [the crowd to large to number WEARING WHITE ROBES (more than 77 MILLIONS Christians martyrs over the Church history ) that John saw BEFORE THE THRONE OF GOD]to see God begin the seven trumpets plagues (Revelation 8)...their numbers will be complete with the martyrs who will be beheaded during the 42 months reign of the Beast (Revelation 13)...God will avenge the blood of all the martyrs in Revelation 16 during the last 6 months of the reign of the Beast..
Revelation 16
1
5 And I heard the angel of the waters saying, Righteous art thou, who art and who wast, thou Holy One, because thou didst thus judge: 6 for they poured out the blood of the saints and the prophets, and blood hast thou given them to drink: they are worthy.

Like every other soul;
unconscious of time, awaiting the GWT Judgement.

The souls of the unrepentant sinners don't go to Heaven...they goes to Hades ...

 

[bjdea1]

Mat_10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

.

I totally agree with BABerean2 . I am kinda shocked reading some of the posts in this discussion, especially recent posts from keras. When we die we go immediately to heaven to be with Christ and with all other saints/believers that have died. We remain conscious, and awake, we see Jesus, we see our loved ones that passed away before us - the ones that were saved. Only our body dies, our soul & spirit never die - that's the whole point of eternal life..... it goes on forever.

I don't have time to quote a lot of scripture because I'm only popping in here for a few moments - but one does come to mind, when Paul says "to depart is to be with the Lord", I can't remember exactly the chapter verse. Also the thief on the cross, Jesus said to him, "today you'll be in paradise (paraphrasing)". And all those verses that BABerean2 posted from Revelation, "How long oh Lord until you judge the world....(paraphrasing)" ... come on people - IT'S OBVIOUS.

So many messed up concepts being expressed - I pray God help me to tolerate and contend with these because I grow weary seeing so much crap being posted.
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[keras]

I totally agree with BABerean2 . I am kinda shocked reading some of the posts in this discussion, especially recent posts from keras. When we die we go immediately to heaven to be with Christ and with all other saints/believers that have died. We remain conscious, and awake, we see Jesus, we see our loved ones that passed away before us - the ones that were saved. Only our body dies, our soul & spirit never die - that's the whole point of eternal life..... it goes on forever. .

The teaching of an immediate going to heaven of the dead in Christ, is a false and unscriptural doctrine.
What Paul said in 2 Corinthians 5:8-10 is a prophecy about the final Judgement, the Tribunal of the Lord, after the Millennium. Revelation 20:11-15

bjdea1, have you read all this thread? Have you studied the scriptures presented?
If not, why do you think you can come in and arbitrarily condemn those who post something that conflicts with your personal beliefs?