President Trump, Cyrus prophecies and the Jerusalem Sanhedrin?

[tampasteve]

You believe Hashem will be happen that his chosen people will be able to worship and follow Torah more? Why?

Because He ordained the Aaronic priesthood and covenant to be perpetual forever so long as this world remains.
Numbers 25:13
"and it shall be to him and to his descendants after him the covenant of a perpetual priesthood"
Exodus 29:9
"The priesthood shall be theirs by a perpetual statute."
Exodus 40:15
"Their anointing will qualify them for a perpetual priesthood throughout their generations."

If Torah struck messiah down ....will not Torah strike us who believe in him?

Torah did not strike Messiah down, Yeshua followed Torah as did the Apostles.

think this through....what will the temple and old ways accomplish for messianics?....You will eventually be seen as enemies against Torah enemies against thier messiah ....only tribulation will eventually befall those who oppose thier teachings...

MJ are already not seen as Jews by the mainstream Jewish community, and gentiles will always be gentiles. They will be seen pretty much as they are now, as either apostates or gentiles.

The warning signs are there not to be involved in the temple worship of the future that is until Yahshua leads them .

Gentiles cannot be involved in Temple worship anyways, so that is not really a concern for most followers of MJ. It will be a problem for Jewish MJ though, but that would have to be worked out.

Happy to answer questions, but remember that this is not a debate forum. Just as a reminder, let us not forget the SOP:

• Yeshua instructed us to ‘Follow Me’, therefore we leave it to each individual to practice Torah (halacha) in a way that he/she believes Yeshua did.
• Messianic Jews and Messianic Gentiles are equal in Messiah on this forum and are permitted to observe Torah without condemnation.

• No anti-Torah theology. i.e. No posts accusing or debating that Messianic Jews or Gentiles are under the law, re-erecting the wall of partition, Torah has been made invalid for today, or Messianic Jews or Gentiles should not keep the commandments in Torah that apply to them. It's not permitted to tell members to keep the Universal (Noachide) laws or not to keep Shabbat.

 

[dfw69]

Because He ordained the Aaronic priesthood and covenant to be perpetual forever so long as this world remains.
Numbers 25:13
"and it shall be to him and to his descendants after him the covenant of a perpetual priesthood"
Exodus 29:9
"The priesthood shall be theirs by a perpetual statute."
Exodus 40:15
"Their anointing will qualify them for a perpetual priesthood throughout their generations."

If Aaronic priesthood is perpetual then would it not contradict Paul who said a change in priesthood was needed because the old was weak to save? A change from Aaron to the melchisdek priesthood ...hebrews 7:12
hebrews 7
hebrews 8

Are there 2 perpetual priesthoods?

Should not we gentiles draw nigh unto Hashem through the melchisdek priesthood ? Our high priest messiah Yahshua who said it is by him that we know the way to the father? John 14

Torah did not strike Messiah down, Yeshua followed Torah as did the Apostles.

Then how did the sanhedrin condemn him?...by what law did they reject him?

Happy to answer questions, but remember that this is not a debate forum. Just as a reminder, let us not forget the SOP:

• Yeshua instructed us to ‘Follow Me’, therefore we leave it to each individual to practice Torah (halacha) in a way that he/she believes Yeshua did.
• Messianic Jews and Messianic Gentiles are equal in Messiah on this forum and are permitted to observe Torah without condemnation.

• No anti-Torah theology. i.e. No posts accusing or debating that Messianic Jews or Gentiles are under the law, re-erecting the wall of partition, Torah has been made invalid for today, or Messianic Jews or Gentiles should not keep the commandments in Torah that apply to them. It's not permitted to tell members to keep the Universal (Noachide) laws or not to keep Shabbat.

Ok...

 

[tampasteve]

If Aaronic priesthood is perpetual then would it not contradict Paul who said a change in priesthood was needed because the old was weak to save? A change from Aaron to the melchisdek priesthood ...hebrews 7:12
hebrews 7
hebrews 8

Are there 2 perpetual priesthoods?

Let me propose that either G-d is lying when he says that the Aaronic priesthood is perpetual or He is not and the writer of Hebrews is meaning something other than the typical understanding of the priesthood. There really only I can see is the option that G-d is lying (which He does not) or the understanding most spoken is mistaken, if there is another way to reconcile the two please let me know. To me, perpetual and forever means exactly that - so long as this world remains.

Yes, there are two. The priesthood of Yeshua is effectual in the Heavenly Temple. The Earthly Temple is a shadow of the Heavenly Temple. When this world passes away the Aaronic priesthood will go the way of this world and be replaced by the Heavenly Temple and Yeshua. The writer of Hebrews also says in Hebrews 8:4: Now if He[Yeshua] were on earth, He would not be a priest at all, since there are those who offer the gifts according to the Law. This states that His priesthood is not on this Earth, in this Temple. The purpose of the Levitical priesthood is not sin remissions, that is the purpose of Yeshua and the Heavenly Temple. The primary purpose of the earthly Temple is for worshipers to draw near to G-d, to become holy and enable them to stand in His presence here on Earth. The whole sacrificial system was a way to physically draw near to G-d on Earth. The purpose of the Heavenly Temple is to cleanse us of sin and impurities to draw near to G-d in Heaven. The other purpose of the Levitical priesthood is to point us to the necessity of the Melchizedek priesthood and Yeshua.

When this world passes away and is replaced by the next the only Temple will be the Heavenly Temple officiated by Yeshua our King-Priest.

Then how did the sanhedrin condemn him?...by what law did they reject him?

Blasphemy via false testimony, misunderstanding what the Messiah was to be the first time, and twisting of words.

 

[tampasteve]

@dfw69 also, I just wanted to say that in the end it does not matter. We can interpret the scriptures differently, but this is not a salvation issue so in the end we can be brothers that do not agree if we cannot see eye to eye.

 

[pinacled]

Because He ordained the Aaronic priesthood and covenant to be perpetual forever so long as this world remains.
Numbers 25:13
"and it shall be to him and to his descendants after him the covenant of a perpetual priesthood"
Exodus 29:9
"The priesthood shall be theirs by a perpetual statute."
Exodus 40:15
"Their anointing will qualify them for a perpetual priesthood throughout their generations."

Torah did not strike Messiah down, Yeshua followed Torah as did the Apostles.

MJ are already not seen as Jews by the mainstream Jewish community, and gentiles will always be gentiles. They will be seen pretty much as they are now, as either apostates or gentiles.


Gentiles cannot be involved in Temple worship anyways, so that is not really a concern for most followers of MJ. It will be a problem for Jewish MJ though, but that would have to be worked out.

Happy to answer questions, but remember that this is not a debate forum. Just as a reminder, let us not forget the SOP:

• Yeshua instructed us to ‘Follow Me’, therefore we leave it to each individual to practice Torah (halacha) in a way that he/she believes Yeshua did.
• Messianic Jews and Messianic Gentiles are equal in Messiah on this forum and are permitted to observe Torah without condemnation.

• No anti-Torah theology. i.e. No posts accusing or debating that Messianic Jews or Gentiles are under the law, re-erecting the wall of partition, Torah has been made invalid for today, or Messianic Jews or Gentiles should not keep the commandments in Torah that apply to them. It's not permitted to tell members to keep the Universal (Noachide) laws or not to keep Shabbat.

please represent the Torah for certain individuals that may be visiting here. You never know who might visit.
circumstances and generations are represented in bamidar(numbers), specifically the midianite household.
If you havnt heard of the Honorable Bond of peace. it is something to lean on the Lord in the spirit of Understanding for when considering that 11 disciples were covered and washed.


Yeshua by His own Blood is our High
Priest.


The Lord spoke to Moses, saying: יוַיְדַבֵּ֥ר יְהֹוָ֖ה אֶל־משֶׁ֥ה לֵּאמֹֽר:
11Phinehas the son of Eleazar the son of Aaron the kohen has turned My anger away from the children of Israel by his zealously avenging Me among them, so that I did not destroy the children of Israel because of My zeal. יאפִּֽינְחָ֨ס בֶּן־אֶלְעָזָ֜ר בֶּן־אַֽהֲרֹ֣ן הַכֹּהֵ֗ן הֵשִׁ֤יב אֶת־חֲמָתִי֙ מֵעַ֣ל בְּנֵֽי־יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל בְּקַנְא֥וֹ אֶת־קִנְאָתִ֖י בְּתוֹכָ֑ם וְלֹֽא־כִלִּ֥יתִי אֶת־בְּנֵֽי־יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל בְּקִנְאָתִֽי:

12Therefore, say, "I hereby give him My covenant of peace. יבלָכֵ֖ן אֱמֹ֑ר הִֽנְנִ֨י נֹתֵ֥ן ל֛וֹ אֶת־בְּרִיתִ֖י שָׁלֽוֹם:

13It shall be for him and for his descendants after him [as] an eternal covenant of kehunah, because he was zealous for his God and atoned for the children of Israel." יגוְהָ֤יְתָה לּוֹ֙ וּלְזַרְע֣וֹ אַֽחֲרָ֔יו בְּרִ֖ית כְּהֻנַּ֣ת עוֹלָ֑ם תַּ֗חַת אֲשֶׁ֤ר קִנֵּא֙ לֵֽאלֹהָ֔יו וַיְכַפֵּ֖ר עַל־בְּנֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵֽל:

And you shall gird them with sashes, Aaron and his sons, and you shall dress them with high hats, and the kehunah will be a perpetual statute for them, and you shall invest Aaron and his sons with full authority. טוְחָֽגַרְתָּ֩ אֹתָ֨ם אַבְנֵ֜ט אַֽהֲרֹ֣ן וּבָנָ֗יו וְחָֽבַשְׁתָּ֤ לָהֶם֙ מִגְבָּעֹ֔ת וְהָֽיְתָ֥ה לָהֶ֛ם כְּהֻנָּ֖ה לְחֻקַּ֣ת עוֹלָ֑ם וּמִלֵּאתָ֥ יַד־אַֽהֲרֹ֖ן וְיַד־בָּנָֽיו:

The Lord spoke to Moses, saying: אוַיְדַבֵּ֥ר יְהֹוָ֖ה אֶל־משֶׁ֥ה לֵּאמֹֽר:
2"On the day of the first month, on the first of the month, you shall set up the Mishkan of the Tent of Meeting. בבְּיֽוֹם־הַחֹ֥דֶשׁ הָֽרִאשׁ֖וֹן בְּאֶחָ֣ד לַחֹ֑דֶשׁ תָּקִ֕ים אֶת־מִשְׁכַּ֖ן אֹ֥הֶל מוֹעֵֽד:

And you shall anoint them, as you have anointed their father, so that they may serve Me [as kohanim]. And this shall be so that their anointment shall remain for them an everlasting kehunah throughout their generations."


And as has been shown, Yochanan is of the Tribe of Levi.
And what was spoke of about Yeshua's sandals?
Acts 21,,
a royal priesthood given to those who have had their feet washed!


John 1
}Berei****h (In the beginning...) (Genesis)}1 In the beginning was the Word{glory}, and the Word{glory} was with God, and the Word{glory} was God.

Shemoth (The names...) (Exodus)}2 He was with God in the beginning.

Vayiqra (And He called...) (Leviticus)}3 All things came to be through him,
and without him nothing made had being.

Bamidbar (In the wilderness...) (Numbers)}4 In him was life,
and the life was the light of mankind.

Devarim (The words...) (Deuteronomy)}5 The light shines in the darkness,
and the darkness has not suppressed it.

Blessed is He who was, is, and is to come

 

[pinacled]

If Aaronic priesthood is perpetual then would it not contradict Paul who said a change in priesthood was needed because the old was weak to save? A change from Aaron to the melchisdek priesthood ...hebrews 7:12
hebrews 7
hebrews 8

Are there 2 perpetual priesthoods?

Should not we gentiles draw nigh unto Hashem through the melchisdek priesthood ? Our high priest messiah Yahshua who said it is by him that we know the way to the father? John 14



Then how did the sanhedrin condemn him?...by what law did they reject him?



Ok...

the sanhedrin used a roman court of law to kill Yeshua.
a manipulated, popular vote, if i recall correctly.

There is nothing in the royal law that would justify a conviction of a capital crime.
Even so, there is more to this than betrayal alone.

 

[dfw69]

@dfw69 also, I just wanted to say that in the end it does not matter. We can interpret the scriptures differently, but this is not a salvation issue so in the end we can be brothers that do not agree if we cannot see eye to eye.

I believe it could become a salvation issue if we fall away from the faith in the process....

 

[tampasteve]

I believe it could become a salvation issue if we fall away from the faith in the process....

Sure, but I maintain that we need the sacrifice of Yeshua for eternal salvation and admittance to Heaven, regardless of if the earthly temple service resumes. They are separate matters, the earthly temple cannot save one's soul, that is the work of Yeshua.

 

[dfw69]

the sanhedrin used a roman court of law to kill Yeshua.
a manipulated, popular vote, if i recall correctly.

There is nothing in the royal law that would justify a conviction of a capital crime.
Even so, there is more to this than betrayal alone.

Yes but before that he appeared before the sanhedrin and they tried him according to the law ..

 

[dfw69]

Sure, but I maintain that we need the sacrifice of Yeshua for eternal salvation and admittance to Heaven, regardless of if the earthly temple service resumes. They are separate matters, the earthly temple cannot save one's soul, that is the work of Yeshua.

Thanks for your replies ...

 

[pinacled]

Yes but before that he appeared before the sanhedrin and they tried him according to the law ..

Yes, and they evicted their own heart with a single sentence.
While Yeshua caught their tongue with fire.
He alone stood in the coucil of iyov for a moment while kefa felt pain. Three keys freely given to three gates. And there are 12 men guarding the altar.
The one of vision given to the son of man to give the Ruach of Life placed upon stones carried accross the yarden. Rward Given freely to a man with twelve oxen who did not look back.
A garment woven to wash feet and strike the waters of the second day with authority.

No one man looking back is worthy".

And so an amount of tables to consider are the twelve to be shouldered.
Such a task yoshua and caleb, have always held.
I dare not speak of any other gate until a person recognise the distinction given on a fatefull day.
When the most prominent promise was given. Look to the west and tell of the Shikinah.

 

[dfw69]

Yes, and they evicted their own heart with a single sentence.
While Yeshua caught their tongue with fire.
He alone stood in the coucil of iyov for a moment while kefa felt pain. Three keys freely given to three gates. And there are 12 men guarding the altar.
The one of vision given to the son of man to give the Ruach of Life placed upon stones carried accross the yarden. Rward Given freely to a man with twelve oxen who did not look back.
A garment woven to wash feet and strike the waters of the second day with authority.

No one man looking back is worthy".

And so an amount of tables to consider are the twelve to be shouldered.
Such a task yoshua and caleb, have always held.
I dare not speak of any other gate until a person recognise the distinction given on a fatefull day.
When the most prominent promise was given. Look to the west and tell of the Shikinah.

Not sure of what you are saying....

 

[Davy]

Note, this forum (Messianic Judaism) does not allow for poor speak of the "old covenant worship". I for one, believe that God will be happy that His chosen people are able to follow the Torah more than they are able to do so now.

Also, please sign into the thread HERE so that we are all on the same page as to the rules, this is a requirement to post in this forum.

Sorry, didn't even know such a thing as "Messianic Judaism" even existed! (And in Christ's Church, it actually doesn't.)

 

[tampasteve]

Sorry, didn't even know such a thing as "Messianic Judaism" even existed!

No need to apologize, it is actually a rule in all faith communities on CF that non-members are not allowed to debate or teach contrary to the community. Many people mistakenly post in threads not knowing which category it is in.

(And in Christ's Church, it actually doesn't.)

Sure it does, Messianic Judaism was the first form of "Christianity", although Messianic Judaism as we know it started (or re-started) in the late 1800s.

 

[Davy]

No need to apologize, it is actually a rule in all faith communities on CF that non-members are not allowed to debate or teach contrary to the community. Many people mistakenly post in threads not knowing which category it is in.

Sure it does, Messianic Judaism was the first form of "Christianity", although Messianic Judaism as we know it started (or re-started) in the late 1800s.

I cannot accept that Judaism is in any way or form a part of Christ's Church. What is known as orthodox Judaism today involves the Babylonian Talmud, which is not the actual Word of God, but traditions of the Jews only based on Torah.

 

[tampasteve]

I cannot accept that Judaism is in any way or form a part of Christ's Church.

I am sorry that you feel this way, in that case it might be better to not post in this particular faith group. This statement alone violates several parts of the MJ Faith Community SOP.

What is known as orthodox Judaism today involves the Babylonian Talmud, which is not the actual Word of God, but traditions of the Jews only based on Torah.

Messianic Judaism is not the same as Orthodox Judaism and in general does not accept the Talmud as scripture or authoritative, some people do as individuals, but in general MJ do not. FWIW not even all mainstream Jews take the Talmud as authoritative.

 

[visionary]

Sorry, didn't even know such a thing as "Messianic Judaism" even existed! (And in Christ's Church, it actually doesn't.)

And you speak with authority regarding "Christ's Church"?? Is this from the mouth of Christ or His disciples?

 

[visionary]

I cannot accept that Judaism is in any way or form a part of Christ's Church. What is known as orthodox Judaism today involves the Babylonian Talmud, which is not the actual Word of God, but traditions of the Jews only based on Torah.

Babylonian talmud is equivalent to any christian commentaries... take them with a grain of salt... they may help your studies or they may not.. depends on what you are looking for.

 

[Davy]

And you speak with authority regarding "Christ's Church"?? Is this from the mouth of Christ or His disciples?

Yes, I speak with authority from within God's Holy Writ.

Gal 3:27-29
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
KJV


The Promise by Faith first given Abraham is about The Gospel of Jesus Christ.

This is why in Galatians 3 Apostle Paul shows those of Faith who have believed as Abraham have become the children of Abraham, and heirs with him.

Paul also showed the Promise by Faith was 430 years BEFORE THE LAW, and before the existence of Israel. Paul also showed the law, which came later, cannot annul the Promise by Faith that was given first!

So what are those up to who try to make God's promises and blessings first given Abraham to be only for the seed of Israel? and especially by those orthodox Jews who still reject Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ? And even those orthodox Jews that don't like anyone else to be called Israel except themselves?? Those are FALSE JEWS that try and steal those things from God's Israel of both believing Israelite and believing Gentile, i.e., Christ's Church.

 

[Davy]

Babylonian talmud is equivalent to any christian commentaries... take them with a grain of salt... they may help your studies or they may not.. depends on what you are looking for.

Now that's funny; especially in light of its writings which has such myths as this:


"Ham is told by his outraged father that, because you have abused me in the darkness of the night, your children shall be born black and ugly; because you have twisted your head to cause me embarrassment, they shall have kinky hair and red eyes; because your lips jested at my expense, theirs shall swell; and because you neglected my nakedness, they shall go naked" (page 81)." Does Talmud Contain Roots of Racism?

Many in the Church secretly believed that from Canaan is where the Black race originated because of Ham's sin against his father Noah. (Some today still believe that lie). That idea above shows the Talmud as a racist document.

For those truly interested in what happened regarding Ham's sin, Leviticus 20 reveals what it means to uncover thy father's nakedness:

Lev 20:11
11 And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
KJV

Ham seeing his father Noah naked literally was not the sin; Ham's sin was taking sexual advantage of his own mother while Noah was drunk. And the result of the affair was Ham's son Canaan which was the child of Ham and his own mother. It was not the start of the Black race; that's an ignorant idea that shows racial hatred against the Blacks.