Justification by Faith Defended!

[discipler7]

For the context of Galatians is clear that Paul is contrasting faith in Christ with the works of the Law of Moses (And not the laws given to us by Jesus and His followers).

GALATIANS.2: = 20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.”

ROMANS.1: = The Just Live by Faith
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

The Word of God says "live by faith", and not "live by faith+works" or "live by works".

"Live by faith" in Christ, in order to walk in the Spirit and produce the fruits of the Spirit(eg good works/obedience), and not "live by faith+works or live by works or live by faithlessness/unbelief".

 

[GodsGrace101]

Romans 9:18

New American Standard Bible
So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.

Romans 9 to 11 is not about individual salvation.
Paul is explaining to the Jews God's plan from the beginning of time and how they were used to reveal God and why now God is allowing the gentiles to be a part of His plan.

It also speaks of God's sovereignty and how He has a big plan and how everything will evolve in such a way as to complete, or achieve, it.
For instance Pharaoh --- he already had a hard heart, but God make it even harder... this brings to mind Romans 1:25, 26, 28
Because, in the end God will give us what we want. I do believe in free will, as you know.

And, in this sense we are not to question God. Where were we when God made the universe?? He IS sovereign. But this does not take away His love for ALL men since we are His special creation.

This verse, and some others in Romans 9 to 11, cannot be understood any other way because it would go against everything the rest of the N.T. teaches. Every verse must agree with every other verse..otherwise it must be explained.

How God chooses is dependant on whether or not we follow His regulations.
There are set rules for being chosen. God created the universe to function in a certain way...He made up all the laws that govern the universe, time, gravity, etc. Can it be that this same God did not set up rules for US, His special creatures, so that we can know what they are and follow them if we wish to be with Him?

The rules are simple...
Recognize God.
Romans 1:19-20

Know that we need Him.
Romans 3:23 We fall short, we are not totally depraved...Romans 1:19-20

Accept God.
John 3:16

And God accepts everyone:
Romans 2:11
Acts 10:34

Also,
Acts 2:38, 41
and
Acts 11:17 is about God giving His gifts to ALL and refers back to Romans 9.

 

[amariselle]

Yes, that is why we pray for forgiveness when we fail.

Yes, but not because we lose salvation every time we fail. We know that we have an “Adovcate”, “Intercessor” and “Mediator” in our Great High Priest, Jesus Christ our Saviour.

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous - 1 John 2:1

For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need. - Hebrews 4:15-16

Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them- Hebrews 7:25

I like to ask you a question. Do you think to live in 100% obedience to God, means that you have to live all your time on the streets sharing the gospel? Do you believe living 100% for God means giving all your belongings to the poor? I will tell you it's not so. You don't need to be on the street all your time to live in 100% obedience, you don't need to give all you have to the poor. That's not what being 100% obedient to God means. Being 100% obedient to God, goes through our circumcised heart, the WILL to live 100% in obedience and the WILL to be 100% sinless and spotless. When there is this WILL, then there are also works of obedience.

Unfortunately, just being “willing” to be 100% obedient does not equal actually being 100% obedient. God still demands absolute perfection when it comes to what is necessary to save us. I have no idea, now that I know I can “rest” in Jesus, why anyone would desire to mix their own imperfect works in with Jesus’ pure, perfect and spotless finished sacrifice for sin. That is the only sacrifice acceptable to God for salvation.

I think the problem with holding on to the belief that we don't have to be 100% obedient is that we fail to live in obedience, because we don't believe it's possible nor necessary.

It is not possible in our “flesh.” It is the “inner man” that is without sin. Our spiritual re-birth was an act of God and it will not be undone. We are sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption. Now we “rest” in Him and we go forward and serve Him with joy as faithful disciples, because we are saved and we know He will never leave us or forsake us and that nothing and no one can take us out of His hand.

 

[amariselle]

We are not 100% sinless, that is why we need to be under Christ's rule, have him as Lord.

Actually, that is why we must believe the Gospel of salvation, that He really did do enough to save us. Then we will be “born again,”made new creations in Christ and sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption. We are then His adopted children and “the purchased possession”, bought at the price of the precious blood of Christ.

And of course to have him as Lord we have to do what he says, or how can we otherwise say he is our Lord?

Exactly, and what did He say one must do to be saved? What did He say it is to “work the works of God” and do “the will of the Father”?

Luke 6:46
“Why do you call Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?

Again, He gave very clear instruction on how to be saved. (We must do “the will of the Father).

One more thing, do you know that God rejoices over us when we are obedient, and do good works?

Of course He does, but the “good work” necessary for salvation, the only one acceptable to God, is the sacrifice of His Son. Why would anyone wish to add anything of themselves to what Christ has done? We cannot mix grace with works.

 

[112358]

Scripture tells us how we remain in Him. He holds us securely. All saved, born again believers are sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption. We are “purchased possessions”, bought with the precious blood of Christ, we are adopted children whom Jesus has promised never to leave, forsake or cast out.

Jesus said the “will of the Father” was that He would lose none who are His and that He will raise them up on the last day. Do you believe Jesus will fail to do the Father’s will?

Of course Jesus will not fail to do the Father's will. Of course He will never leave of forsake us. He waits patiently for all of His children to come to Him, or to return to Him. We can leave or forsake Him. Many do. And all those who never come to Him or never return will be cast out. They have fallen from grace. They can be cut off just as they were grafted in. His blood cleanses all sin of those that walk in light. Those who walk in darkness lie and do not practice the truth.
1 John 1:5-10 is a letter written to CHRISTIANS.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I also wanted to add that to 'continue in the grace of God' is similar to saying 'don't continue in Law'. You are to live in grace, not Law - or, in the words of this discussion, a works-righteousness.

I see Romans 7 is coming up and I think it might be interesting to note a different take on this, as it's relevant here. It seems to me that Paul's objective in Romans 7 is to remind his readers what it's like to live under Law. If you read the chapter you've got to ask why he keeps mentioning the Law.

Paul is making the same point he does in Galatians here. Romans 6 is about being dead to sin, Romans 7 about what it's like to try solve the problem of sin with the Law (i.e. it does not work, it leads to you not doing the things you want to do) and Romans 8 about living in the Spirit instead. Living in the Spirit resolves the problem. In the Spirit, you go beyond the Law and live in and out perfect love.

First, the heresy at the time of Paul that was popular was the kind of belief that tried to mix God's grace (i.e. believing in Jesus) with obeying the Old Testament Law of Moses (like circumcision) for salvation. The Jews were trying to compel believers that they needed to be circumcised in order to be initially right with God. This is evident if you were to read about the topic of discussion at the Jerusalem counsel (See Acts of the Apostles 15:1, and Acts of the Apostles 15:24). This is evident by the fact that Paul says if you seek to be circumcised Christ shall profit you nothing (Galatians 5:2) and by the fact that he calls into question the way of the Jew and circumcision (See Romans 3:1) (Also see Galatians 2:3-4). So Paul is trying to refute Works Alone Salvationism (without God's grace) by being under the Law of Moses (Which is a Covenant set of rules that do not apply as a whole or package deal any more). (Yes, certain laws have carried over like the Moral Law, but the Moral Law existed even before the written Law). Nowhere will you see Paul condemn obedience to Christ or to His commands as a part of the salvation process (After we are saved by God's grace). In fact, many times, Paul tells believers about certain sins (i.e. the breaking of the Moral Law) that will cause one not to inherit the Kingdom of God (See Galatians 5:19-21, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10) (Ephesians 5:3-5), or the wrath of God to come upon them (Colossians 3:5-7). So this is proof that Paul was not against obedience as a part of salvation. For Paul says in Romans 8:13, "For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live."

Second, Paul is talking about trying to be saved by the Law of Moses alone in Romans 7. This is evident for 8 reasons. Third, in Romans 7:14-24. Paul is talking as a Pharisee (recounting his past experience) in trying to be saved by the Old Law alone and he is not talking in the present tense as a Christian.

#1. In Romans 7:6, Paul says we should serve in newness of the spirit and not the oldness of the letter (Which is the Old Law and not the New Testament Scriptures that were still being formed). We are told to SERVE. How do we serve? Do we just do our own thing? No. We follow God's commands in the New Testament. This talk of the Old Law is the context of verses 14-24.

#2. We are dead to the Law by the body of Jesus Christ (Romans 7:4). Would this be the Old Law or ALL law? 1 John 3:23 is a commandment that says we are to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. This is a New Covenant Law. So obviously we are not dead to this Law or Command. The Scriptures also say, "but now commandeth all men everywhere to repent." (Acts of the Apostles 17:30). Are we dead to this Law? Surely not. Jesus said "repent or perish." (Luke 13:3). Peter told Simon to repent (by way of prayer to God) of his wickedness of trying to pay for the gifts of the Holy Spirit so that he may be forgiven (Acts of the Apostles 8:22). Sin is merely transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4). All this lets us know that men of God can break God's laws and they can be separated from GOD because of it. So surely some kind of Law of God is still in effect and has dire consequences for any person's soul who commits them. For Jesus said that if we do not forgive, we will not be forgiven by the Father (Matthew 6:15). If Jesus was talking to unbelievers, this would not make any sense. They would first need to accept Christ. So the only logical conclusion is that Jesus is talking to believers in Matthew 6:15. You do not forgive (i.e. you sin or break this law of God) and you will not be forgiven or saved. 1 John 3:15 says if you hate your brother you are like a murderer and no murderer has eternal life abiding in them. Again, you hate your brother (which can be a one time act) and you do not have eternal life. It's that simple. Also, Paul condemns circumcision several times. Galatians 5:2 is the biggest verse that condemns circumcision salvationism. Circumcision is an Old Covenant Law and it is not a New Covenant Law. Paul uses the word "law" when he speaks against circumcision. So we have to conclude that Paul is saying we are dead to the Old Covenant Law and not all Law. So again, this talk of the Old Law plays into verses 14-24.

#3. Paul says, "For without the law sin was dead." (Romans 7:8). He also says, "I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died." (Romans 7:9). This type of saying is nonsensical from a present tense reading as an adult Christian. The only way it sort of works is if Paul is referring to himself as a baby who had no knowledge of God's laws yet. But there are two problem with even that interpretation. One, this view does not seem as consistent with the phrase, "For without the law sin was dead" because even though Paul as a baby did not have any knowledge of the Law yet, the rest of the adult world would have the Law and sin would still be alive to them. Second, Paul says, "And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me." (Romans 7:10-11). Okay, so if Paul grew up and became aware of the Law one day, how could the commandment be ordained to life at this point in his life? The commandment was ordained for life back in the time of the Law of Moses. Also, Paul found that "the commandment" was death unto him and that it slew him. There are no death penalties attached to the commands given to us under the New Testament. Death penalties are only associated with the Laws given to us in the Old Covenant. This is how the Law slew him. For breaking the Old Law could be a loss of his own physical life. So this is talking about the Old Law (and not all Law). So again, this talk of the Old Law plays into verses 14-24.

#4. Paul says, "But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful." (Romans 7:13). Okay. Let's break this down. Paul says, "But sin, that it MIGHT APPEAR SIN, works death in me." (Romans 7:13). Now, how can sin make it appear like it may not be sin? Well, if Jesus was raised and Saul (Paul) was still a Pharisee striving to obey the Old Law when the New Covenant Law was still in effect, the sin that Saul (Paul) was struggling with as a pharisee during that time would not really technically be sin in every case. For if Paul disobeyed certain Old Covenant laws while the New Covenant and it's laws were in effect, then Saul (Paul) is not really breaking any real commandments from God in every case. Hence, why Paul said, "...sin, that it MIGHT APPEAR (as) SIN." (Romans 7:13). The beginning of verse 13 is a foreshadow of what is to come in verses 14-24. Paul is stepping out for a brief moment as speaking as an Israelite living throughout history to speak of his condition as a Pharisee when he says, "...sin, that it might appear sin." In the second half of verse 13, Paul says, that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful." (Romans 7:13). This is saying that when God provided the written Law of Moses to his people, there would be a double accountability to keeping God's laws because they are written for all to see now. So an Old Testament saint would feel exceedingly sinful or guilty for breaking God's law back in the Old Testament times because he had in his possession a written down visual law clearly telling him what is right and wrong. So again, Paul is referring to the Old Law here and not all law. This talk of the Old Law plays into verses 14-24.

#5. Paul says in Romans 7:14 that he is carnal and is sold under sin; And yet in Romans 8:2, Pauls says he is free from sin. So unless Paul is contradicting himself, he is talking from two different perspectives.

#6. In Romans 7:25, Paul asks the question: "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?" Asking this kind of question as a Christian does not seem consistent with Paul's following statement if he is already delivered thru Jesus Christ as a Christian. If a believer is delivered by Jesus, and is thankful of that fact, there would be no cry to ask any question that says, "Who shall deliver me from this body of death?"

#7. Here is the final nail in the coffin for this argument. Romans 8:3-4 says,
3 "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." (Romans 8:3-4).

So which Law did God send His Son for so as to condemn sin in the flesh?
It was the Old Covenant Law.
For when Jesus died on the cross, the temple veil was ripped from top to bottom letting us know that the Old Testament laws were no longer valid because the Old Laws on the animal sacrifices and the priesthood were no longer acceptable.
Jesus Christ was now our Passover Lamb.
Jesus Christ was soon be our Heavenly High Priest (after He ascended to His father after His resurrection 3 days later) so He can be our mediator between God the Father and man.

Romans 8:4 says, "That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

This is saying that the righteous part or aspect of the Old Law can be fulfilled in us.

Paul says elsewhere,
8 "Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."

(Romans 13:8-10).

So loving your neighbor is the righteousness of the Old Law!
We fulfill this law by walking after the Spirit and not after the flesh (i.e. sin).

So we see a consistent theme here. The word "law" used in general (with no actual description attached to it) is in reference to the Old Law in Romans 7 and Romans 8. This helps us to understand that Paul is telling us his past experience or life as a Pharisee in struggling to keep the Old Law unsuccessfully because he did not have Jesus Christ yet (in verses 14-24).


#8. In addition, in Romans 8:2, we see the mention of how there are TWO laws. We also learn from this verse that keeping one of these Laws helps us to be set FREE from the other one.

In Romans 8:2, we see:

Law #1. - Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus.
This is a New Covenant Law that we are still under. What is this Law?
It is fulfilling the righteousness of the Law (i.e. to love your neighbor - Romans 13:8-10) by walking after the Spirit (See Romans 8:3-4).

Law #2. Sin and Death.
This is in reference to the Old Covenant Law as a whole (i.e. the 613 Old Testament Commands within the Torah). It is called the Law of Sin and Death because you could physically be put to death by not obeying this Law.​

What is the relationship of these two laws in Romans 8:2?

Keeping the New Law helps us to be free of the Old Law.
For there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus who WALK not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (Romans 8:1).



Source used for a small paragraph within this post:
Paul is not Talking about Himself: Why I take the "pre-Christian" Reading of Romans 7:14-25

 

[zoidar]

Yes, but not because we lose salvation every time we fail. We know that we have an “Adovcate”, “Intercessor” and “Mediator” in our Great High Priest, Jesus Christ our Saviour.

Agree 100%!

Unfortunately, just being “willing” to be 100% obedient does not equal actually being 100% obedient. God still demands absolute perfection when it comes to what is necessary to save us. I have no idea, now that I know I can “rest” in Jesus, why anyone would desire to mix their own imperfect works in with Jesus’ pure, perfect and spotless finished sacrifice for sin. That is the only sacrifice acceptable to God for salvation.

I don't agree since being 100% obedient, is not the same as being perfect. We live in a relationship with Christ, we follow him, do as he says, and when we fail in things we are supposed to do or not do, we pray for forgiveness. We are allowed to fail, but we are not allowed to choose a life without living for him. If we don't have to be obedient, why do we pray for forgiveness when we fail him? Only to have a good relationship going? Doesn't it have anything to do with salvation?

It is not possible in our “flesh.” It is the “inner man” that is without sin. Our spiritual re-birth was an act of God and it will not be undone. We are sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption. Now we “rest” in Him and we go forward and serve Him with joy as faithful disciples, because we are saved and we know He will never leave us or forsake us and that nothing and no one can take us out of His hand.

I do think that Paul also mentioned another side of being his disciples.

Philippians 2:12
So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;

As I see it there are two sides, the side to serve out of love, and the side to serve out of fear, these two complement each other. We are not to be afraid of God, but we are to have a sincere respect of him, "who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell" (Matthew 10:28). We have a word in Swedish that expresses this "fear" of God really well, "gudsfruktan", it's when you have a deep respect for God, it doesn't mean being afraid, but rather an expression of knowing about His all might, and the thought of this makes you tremble inside.

 

[GodsGrace101]

2 Corinthians 4 may be helpful. Paul refers to the outer man decaying and the inner man being transformed day by day.

2 Corinthians 4:16
16Therefore we do not lose heart, but though our outer man is decaying, yet our inner man is being renewed day by day.

Here is what John Calvin has to say about the above verse.

Though our outward man. The outward man, some improperly and ignorantly confound with the old man, for widely different from this is the old man, of which we have spoken in [36]Romans 4:6. Chrysostom, too, and others restrict it entirely to the body; but it is a mistake, for the Apostle intended to comprehend, under this term, everything that relates to the present life. As he here sets before us two men, so you must place before your view two kinds of life -- the earthly and the heavenly. The outward man is the maintenance of the earthly life, which consists not merely in the flower of one's age, (1 Corinthians 7:36,) and in good health, but also in riches, honors, friendships, and other resources. [492] Hence, according as we suffer a diminution or loss of these blessings, which are requisite for keeping up the condition of the present life, is our outward man in that proportion corrupted. For as we are too much taken up with the present life, so long as everything goes on to our mind, the Lord, on that account, by taking away from us, by little and little, the things that we are engrossed with, calls us back to meditate on a better life. Thus, therefore, it is necessary, that the condition of the present life should decay, [493] in order that the inward man may be in a flourishing state; because, in proportion as the earthly life declines, does the heavenly life advance, at least in believers. For in the reprobate, too, the outward man decays, [494] but without anything to compensate for it. In the sons of God, on the other hand, a decay of this nature is the beginning, and, as it were, the cause of production. He says that this takes place daily, because God continually stirs us up to such meditation. Would that this were deeply seated in our minds, that we might uninterruptedly make progress amidst the decay of the outward man!

 

[zoidar]

Exactly, and what did He say one must do to be saved? What did He say it is to “work the works of God” and do “the will of the Father”?

Again, He gave very clear instruction on how to be saved. (We must do “the will of the Father).

Yes he did, "Sermon on the mount" and "Sermon on the plain".

Luke 6

37 “Do not judge, and you will not be judged; and do not condemn, and you will not be condemned; pardon, and you will be pardoned. 38 Give, and it will be given to you. They will pour into your lap a good measure--pressed down, shaken together, and running over. For by your standard of measure it will be measured to you in return.”
39 And He also spoke a parable to them: “A blind man cannot guide a blind man, can he? Will they not both fall into a pit? 40 A pupil is not above his teacher; but everyone, after he has been fully trained, will be like his teacher. 41 Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 42 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Brother, let me take out the speck that is in your eye,’ when you yourself do not see the log that is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take out the speck that is in your brother’s eye. 43 For there is no good tree which produces bad fruit, nor, on the other hand, a bad tree which produces good fruit. 44 For each tree is known by its own fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they pick grapes from a briar bush. 45 The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth what is good; and the evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth what is evil; for his mouth speaks from that which fills his heart.

46 “Why do you call Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say? 47 Everyone who comes to Me and hears My words and acts on them, I will show you whom he is like: 48 he is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid a foundation on the rock; and when a flood occurred, the torrent burst against that house and could not shake it, because it had been well built. 49 But the one who has heard and has not acted accordingly, is like a man who built a house on the ground without any foundation; and the torrent burst against it and immediately it collapsed, and the ruin of that house was great.”

Of course He does

I'm very happy you agree on this. Some people believe our good works are like filthy rags to God.

 

[amariselle]

Of course Jesus will not fail to do the Father's will. Of course He will never leave of forsake us. He waits patiently for all of His children to come to Him, or to return to Him. We can leave or forsake Him. Many do. And all those who never come to Him or never return will be cast out. They have fallen from grace. They can be cut off just as they were grafted in. His blood cleanses all sin of those that walk in light. Those who walk in darkness lie and do not practice the truth.
1 John 1:5-10 is a letter written to CHRISTIANS.

Yes, it is a letter written to Christians, all of the Epistles are written to saved, born again, sealed believers. 1 John also says this to clarify why people leave the Church.

1 John 2:
18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

GALATIANS.2: = 20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.”

ROMANS.1: = The Just Live by Faith
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

The Word of God says "live by faith", and not "live by faith+works" or "live by works".

"Live by faith" in Christ, in order to walk in the Spirit and produce the fruits of the Spirit(eg good works/obedience), and not "live by faith+works or live by works or live by faithlessness/unbelief".

First, the Bible has to be read as a whole. One has to look at the entirety of the counsel of God's Word to get a complete picture of salvation. Salvation is not Belief Alone-ism and neither is it Works Alone Salvationism. The heresy at the time was trying to mix God's grace (i.e. a belief in Jesus) with "Circumcision Salvationism" or obeying the Law of Moses as one's foundation for one's salvation (Note: This heresy is discussed at the Jerusalem counsel. See Acts of the Apostles 15:1 and Acts of the Apostles 15:24). Paul never preached against the Moral Law or the commands given to us by Jesus Christ. In fact, Paul listed certain sins (as a part of the breaking of the Moral Law) and how that can cause a loss of our salvation (See Galatians 5:19-21, Ephesians 5:3-5, Colossians 3:5-7, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10). For Paul said if any man speaks contrary to the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine according to godliness, he is proud and knows nothing (See 1 Timothy 6:3-4). James says God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble (See James 4:6). Paul condemns "Circumcision Salvationism" in his letters (Galatians 5:2, Romans 3:1, Galatians 2:3-4). So this is the context of what Paul was trying to refute. Yes, we do need faith or belief before we can do any good works. We cannot put the cart before the horse. But works are also necessary as a part of the salvation process because those works are proof that Jesus lives inside of us (Compare 2 Corinthians 13:5 with 1 John 2:3-4).

Second, faith is described as both a belief and as an action. This is because belief or faith is intrinsically linked to works (that follows belief or faith).

For James says,

"Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works." (James 2:18).

This is why James says faith without works is dead (James 2:17).

This is why James says we are justified by works and not by faith alone (James 2:24).

The author of Hebrews says,

"By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith." (Hebrews 11:7).

So if Noah did not act on his faith, what could have happened?

The whole world (including Noah and his family) could have perished in the global flood. It was not only Noah's belief in God (faith) but his actions from his faith that saved him. For his actions showed that his faith was true.

For example: If Rick said that his old rocking chair on his porch was able to hold his weight, and he said he believed that with all his heart, would he truly be showing forth that his statement of faith was true if he never sat in the chair? Especially if he was asked to sit in it and yet he refused to do so? In other words, if Rick believed that his porch chair would hold his weight (and he told others this), he would no doubt take the action necessary by sitting in that chair to prove that such a statement was true. Otherwise it would just be an empty profession of faith. In other words, if a person says they love God, and they have no visible good fruit to show that such a thing is true, then it would be just an empty profession of faith that they love God. Meaning, they really do not love God. It would just be a paying of lip service. I mean, a man can say he loves his wife, but if he does nothing to please her in any way, then he really does not love her. Action shows forth whether one's faith is the genuine and the real article vs. it being fake.

Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15).
Paul says if any man loves not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be accursed (1 Corinthians 16:22).

 

[discipler7]

For the context of Galatians is clear that Paul is contrasting faith in Christ with the works of the Law of Moses (And not the laws given to us by Jesus and His followers).

GALATIANS.2: =
No Return to the Law
11 Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed; 12 for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision. 13 And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy.

14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, “If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews? 15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

1TIMOTHY.4: = The Great Apostasy
4 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, 3 forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. 4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; 5 for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _

Jews and Jewish Christians obeyed/kept Moses Law. Gentiles did not keep/obey Moses Law.

The Judaizers, a group of early Jewish Christians led by James, wanted to impose Moses Law upon the new Gentile Christians converted by Paul, eg must be circumcised, must eat kosher foods, etc in order to be justified(for salvation or as Christians). Paul refused this imposition by stating that "a man is not justified(for salvation) by the works of the Law but by faith in Jesus Christ".

By extension, anytime a group of Christians want to impose "justification by works of any Law" or "justification by faith+works of any Law" , they have fallen from grace and departed from the faith(1TIMOTHY.4:1-4) because "justification by works" is also involved in the latter.
....... Anytime, a group of Christians pronounce that "you must obey/keep this commandment/law/rule, in order to be saved", they have fallen from grace and departed from the faith, eg pronounce "You must do good works, must be water-baptized, must partake in the Holy Communion, must tithe one-tenth, must eat kosher foods, (single Christians)must not marry, etc or you will go to hell". This is a doctrine of demons.

"Justified by faith+works" = "Justified by faith" + "Justified by works"

It should be "Justified by faith in Christ" + "Sanctified by works in Christ".
....... God blesses/rewards the former with salvation and blesses/rewards the latter with heavenly crowns.

 

[amariselle]

Yes he did, "Sermon on the mount" and "Sermon on the plain".

Luke 6

37 “Do not judge, and you will not be judged; and do not condemn, and you will not be condemned; pardon, and you will be pardoned. 38 Give, and it will be given to you. They will pour into your lap a good measure--pressed down, shaken together, and running over. For by your standard of measure it will be measured to you in return.”
39 And He also spoke a parable to them: “A blind man cannot guide a blind man, can he? Will they not both fall into a pit? 40 A pupil is not above his teacher; but everyone, after he has been fully trained, will be like his teacher. 41 Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 42 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Brother, let me take out the speck that is in your eye,’ when you yourself do not see the log that is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take out the speck that is in your brother’s eye. 43 For there is no good tree which produces bad fruit, nor, on the other hand, a bad tree which produces good fruit. 44 For each tree is known by its own fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they pick grapes from a briar bush. 45 The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth what is good; and the evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth what is evil; for his mouth speaks from that which fills his heart.

46 “Why do you call Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say? 47 Everyone who comes to Me and hears My words and acts on them, I will show you whom he is like: 48 he is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid a foundation on the rock; and when a flood occurred, the torrent burst against that house and could not shake it, because it had been well built. 49 But the one who has heard and has not acted accordingly, is like a man who built a house on the ground without any foundation; and the torrent burst against it and immediately it collapsed, and the ruin of that house was great.”

27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.
32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.
35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

I'm very happy you agree on this. Some people believe our good works are like filthy rags to God.

Scripture says they are, actually, and we know they are when it comes to what is necessary to save us. (They are “filthy rags” when compared to the sinless, spotless sacrifice of Christ) Paul counted all his zealous deeds as a Pharisee, all of his own righteousness as “dung.”

Philippians 3:
6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith...

 

[112358]

Yes, it is a letter written to Christians, all of the Epistles are written to saved, born again, sealed believers. 1 John also says this to clarify why people leave the Church.

1 John 2:
18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Yes. Keep reading.
28 And now, little children, abide in Him, that [h]when He appears, we may have confidence and not be ashamed before Him at His coming. 29 If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

GALATIANS.2: =
No Return to the Law
11 Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed; 12 for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision. 13 And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy.

14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, “If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews? 15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

1TIMOTHY.4: = The Great Apostasy
4 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, 3 forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. 4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; 5 for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _

Jews and Jewish Christians obeyed/kept Moses Law. Gentiles did not keep/obey Moses Law.

The Judaizers, a group of early Jewish Christians led by James, wanted to impose Moses Law upon the new Gentile Christians converted by Paul, eg must be circumcised, must eat kosher foods, etc in order to be justified(for salvation or as Christians). Paul refused this imposition by stating that "a man is not justified(for salvation) by the works of the Law but by faith in Jesus Christ".

By extension, anytime a group of Christians want to impose "justification by works of any Law" or "justification by faith+works of any Law" , they have fallen from grace and departed from the faith(1TIMOTHY.4:1-4) because "justification by works" is also involved in the latter.
....... Anytime, a group of Christians pronounce that "you must obey/keep this commandment/law/rule, in order to be saved", they have fallen from grace and departed from the faith, eg pronounce "You must do good works, must be water-baptized, must partake in the Holy Communion, must tithe one-tenth, must eat kosher foods, (single Christians)must not marry, etc or you will go to hell". This is a doctrine of demons.

"Justified by faith+works" = "Justified by faith" + "Justified by works"

It should be "Justified by faith in Christ" + "Sanctified by works in Christ".
....... God blesses/rewards the former with salvation and blesses/rewards the latter with heavenly crowns.

No. James agreed with the Jerusalem counsel by quoting a letter from the brethren that said this:

"Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:" (Acts of the Apostles 15:24).

So you are not reading the words at the Jerusalem counsel correctly. James is in agreement with the other brethren here. Again, this was the popular heresy at the time. It is why the Jerusalem counsel discussed it and why many of Paul's letters discuss such a topic. But folks like to take what Paul says out of context (not understanding this truth) and try to defend a sin and still be saved type belief. However, Jude 1:4 warns against turning God's grace into a license for immorality.

 

[zoidar]

27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.
32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.
35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

"This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." I think that means to believe in him, is believe in who he is and in what he says, and when we do believe that, we give our lives to him, and then we live in an obedient/love/faith relationship with Christ, which means we are disciples of him and saved. That is impossible to do without first believing in who he is. If we only believe in him, and are not taking the other steps in belief, we are not saved. Of course we can't work our way to salvation, we are enabled to live in a relationship with him through the new birth.

Scripture says they are, actually, and we know they are when it comes to what is necessary to save us. (They are “filthy rags” when compared to the sinless, spotless sacrifice of Christ) Paul counted all his zealous deeds as a Pharisee, all of his own righteousness as “dung.”

Philippians 3:
6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith...

I see, I'm not surprised that you say that. Many Christians believe this, that our good works are like dung to God. Paul is like you say counting the works he did as a pharisee, through the Mosaic Law as dung, they were not made in Spirit but of flesh. He is not talking about the works he now does, through the Holy Spirit.

 

[amariselle]

Yes. Keep reading.
28 And now, little children, abide in Him, that [h]when He appears, we may have confidence and not be ashamed before Him at His coming. 29 If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him.

I've read the entire letter, actually. It does not say that saved, born again, sealed believers can or will lose their salvation. (Become unborn and unsealed) The above verses are in regard to us having "confidence" and not being "ashamed before Him." These verses are NOT saying that true believers who have passed from death to life and are saved, will lose their salvation.

And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him. For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things. Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God. -1 John 3:19-21

 

[amariselle]

"This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." I think that means to believe in him, is believe in who he is and in what he says,

Yes, and ultimately it is to believe that only He can save, and that He did indeed to everything necessary to save us.

and when we do believe that, we give our lives to him, and then we live in an obedient/love/faith relationship with Christ, which means we are disciples of him and saved.

Yes, and this is a matter of faithful discipleship, not salvation. We are saved because He gave His life for us, not because we give our lives to Him.

That is impossible to do without first believing in who he is. If we only believe in him, and are not taking the other steps in belief, we are not saved.

There is only one step for salvation. Salvation is an event, not a process. It is by the power of God we are saved. It is He who causes us to be born again by the power of the Spirit. This Spiritual re-birth is not according to human "passion or plan." We can take credit for none of it.

Of course we can't work our way to salvation, we are enabled to live in a relationship with him through the new birth.

Anyone who says salvation is dependent on our good works, is in fact saying that we must work our way to salvation. Salvation is by the grace and mercy of God, it is a gift, not a reward for the good things we do.

I see, I'm not surprised that you say that. Many Christians believe this, that our good works are like dung to God. Paul is like you say counting the works he did as a pharisee, through the Mosaic Law as dung, they were not made in Spirit but of flesh. He is not talking about the works he now does, through the Holy Spirit.

No, our good works are "dung" when we think that they can save us or contribute to our salvation. That is going about to establish our own righteousness. Paul understood that the good he did after salvation was his "reasonable service", not what saved him. Salvation is in Christ alone.

 

[amariselle]

Agree 100%!

I don't agree since being 100% obedient, is not the same as being perfect. We live in a relationship with Christ, we follow him, do as he says, and when we fail in things we are supposed to do or not do, we pray for forgiveness. We are allowed to fail, but we are not allowed to choose a life without living for him. If we don't have to be obedient, why do we pray for forgiveness when we fail him? Only to have a good relationship going? Doesn't it have anything to do with salvation?

It is about relationship, a clear conscience before God, so that we need not be ashamed. Salvation is accomplished by Christ, period. Our discipleship, our "reasonable service" is what it means to serve the One Who saved us. We pray for forgiveness indeed, and we know that God chastises His children when they are disobedient. He does not, however, forsake them or cast them into Hell. He is faithful, even when we are not.

Paul, writing to chastise the Corinthian believers (who were saved) in regard to getting drunk, being inconsiderate of brothers and sisters in Christ, and being gluttonous when partaking of the Lord's supper, wrote this:

For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. - 1 Corinthians 11:30-32

I do think that Paul also mentioned another side of being his disciples.

Philippians 2:12
So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;

As I see it there are two sides, the side to serve out of love, and the side to serve out of fear, these two complement each other. We are not to be afraid of God, but we are to have a sincere respect of him, "who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell" (Matthew 10:28). We have a word in Swedish that expresses this "fear" of God really well, "gudsfruktan", it's when you have a deep respect for God, it doesn't mean being afraid, but rather an expression of knowing about His all might, and the thought of this makes you tremble inside.

Indeed, which is precisely why we must realize we cannot mix grace and works. The "willful sin" spoken of in Hebrews 10:26-29 is to "trample the Son of God underfoot and count the blood of the covenant an unclean thing." This is what those who say Jesus did not do enough to save us by Himself, that His sacrifice was not sufficient, are doing. When one claims they must add works to Christ's finished work, they are attempting to take credit for what He alone has done and they are also denying that what He did was truly enough to save. There is nothing lacking in Christ's perfect and all sufficient sacrifice.

 

[amariselle]

No. You are not believing plainly what those verses say at face value. Verse 16 says very plainly that you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh if you walk in the Spirit (Gal 5:16). Verse 24 says very plainly they that are Christ's have crucified the affections and lusts (Gal 5:24), and Romans 13 says put on the Lord Jesus Christ and make no provision for the flesh to fulfill the lusts thereof (Rom 13:14).

"This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh." (Galatians 5:16).

"And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Galatians 5:24).

"But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof." (Romans 13:14).

Exactly. We walk in the Spirit. We sow to the Spirit. We do not make salvation about our works because we know that salvation is by the grace and mercy of God, not our own obedience and effort. When we "rest" in Christ we go forward and walk in the works He prepared for us and we present our bodies as a living sacrifice as our "reasonable service", pleasing to the Lord.