The name of the beast is 666: euporia (prosperity)

[Bible2+]

jgr said in post #80:

Nothing Christ showed later contradicted, or would have contradicted, Matthew 24:16.

That's right.

Revelation 12:6,14 doesn't contradict, but simply expands on Matthew 24:16, according to the principle of John 16:12.

Also, regarding the 1,260 days, "a time, and times, and half a time", and 42 months, they are all the same time period in the prophecies of Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5, Revelation 11:2-3, Daniel 7:25, and Daniel 12:7. They will be 1,260 literal days, just as, for example, the three days in the fulfilled prophecies of Luke 9:22 and Luke 18:33 were literal days, and the three days in the fulfilled prophecies of Genesis 40:13 and Genesis 40:19 were literal days. Similarly, the seventy years in the fulfilled prophecy of Jeremiah 29:10 (Daniel 9:2) were literal years (Zechariah 7:5), and the 400 years in the fulfilled prophecy of Genesis 15:13 were literal years.

The literal 1,260-day time period will be the time of the Antichrist's Luciferian/Satanic worldwide reign of terror (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), which time period is shown from four different angles in Revelation chapters 11 to 14 (Revelation 11:2b-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5,7, Revelation 14:9-13). The myriad details of these chapters have never been fulfilled, not even during a past time period of 1,260 years, as historicism mistakenly claims. But these details must be fulfilled (Revelation 1:1). So they will be fulfilled in our future, after the also-never-fulfilled details of Revelation chapters 6 to 10 are fulfilled in our future.

jgr said in post #80:

Isaiah 26:20 does not refer to antichrist or persecution or tribulation. Rather, it is an invitation to God's faithful saints to withdraw until His punishment of the iniquitous (verse 21), precipitated by His indignation, is complete.

Verse 21 refers to Revelation 16, which has never been fulfilled.

jgr said in post #80:

Isaiah 26:20 is not fulfilled in a shipping container.

It could be fulfilled in a buried one.

jgr said in post #80:

Some futurists are evidently overwhelmed by “tribulation trepidation”.

That's right.

Also, the mistaken idea by some futurists of a pre-tribulation rapture is dangerous, because when no pre-tribulation rapture occurs, and pre-trib Christians begin to suffer in the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, they could think that God has somehow been defeated by Satan, that Satan by his power has caused a pre-trib rapture not to happen despite God wanting one to. Or they could think that God has cruelly broken His (supposed) promise, that He has pulled the rug out from under them, that He lied to them and must now be laughing at their surprise and suffering (Proverbs 1:26), so that in their rage they could curse God and commit apostasy during the Tribulation (Isaiah 8:21-22, Matthew 24:9-13, Matthew 13:21), to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Hebrews 6:4-8, John 15:6; 2 Timothy 2:12).

And even if they instead rightly think: "Okay, we must have just been mistaken in thinking that the rapture was supposed to be pre-tribulation. Satan has not defeated God, and God did not lie to us", nonetheless, because they had held so strongly to the pre-trib idea for so long, their minds could be unprepared to face the long Tribulation that lies ahead of them (just as holding too strongly to the mistaken idea of preterism, or historicism, or symbolicism, or spiritualism, could leave some Christians unprepared mentally to endure the future Tribulation).

The Bible gives those in the Church clear warning ahead of time about everything that they are going to have to face during the future Tribulation (Mark 13:23, Revelation chapters 6 to 18, Revelation 1:1, Revelation 22:16), so that they can be better prepared mentally not to be blindsided (1 Peter 4:12-13) or deceived by anything that is coming (Matthew 24:4-5,23-25, Revelation 13:13-18, Revelation 19:20), and so that they can be better prepared mentally to endure the future Tribulation with patience and faith to the end (Matthew 24:9-13, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6), that is, until death or until Jesus Christ's Second Coming, immediately after the Tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 19:2 to 20:6; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8).

jgr said in post #80:

To place our faith in Christ means to abandon our faith in our shipping containers.

Of course, no faith should be put into anything but Christ the LORD (Psalms 127:1). But faith in Him is not sufficient by itself (Luke 6:46). We must also obey Him (John 14:15), including His commandment in Isaiah 26:20, however He shows us to fulfill it.

jgr said in post #80:

Sadly, those overcome by tribulation trepidation may never be capable of doing so.

That brings to mind John 8:32.

The context (John 8:31-36) is that knowing Jesus Christ, who Himself is the truth (John 14:6), can make people free from slavery to sin (John 8:34-36, Romans 6:16-23).

But John 8:32, just by itself, might also have a wider application, in that knowing other truths could help us to get free from bondage to other things. For example, John 8:32 could include the meaning that knowing the truth that the rapture (the gathering together) of the Church will be after the future Tribulation of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 18 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8) could help us to get free of a horrible fear of the Tribulation. For the post-tribulation-rapture view requires that one face one's fear of the Tribulation head-on and overcome that fear (cf. Revelation 2:10), while the pre-tribulation-rapture view allows one to smother over that fear with the false hope of a pre-tribulation rapture, while that fear continues to fester in one's subconscious nonetheless (cf. Hebrews 2:15).

Of course, the benefit of knowing the post-tribulation-rapture truth can be short-circuited by those who think that God must physically protect them perfectly during the Tribulation. This false hope of mandatory miraculous physical protection is no less an attempt to smother one's fear of the Tribulation than the false hope of a pre-tribulation rapture.

Letting the post-tribulation-rapture truth "sink in" is a perfect image of what we must let happen. For those who refuse the post-tribulation-rapture truth, and hold onto the pre-tribulation-rapture false hope, could be like those who, even though they love the Word of God, the Holy Bible, they "have no root in themselves", and so will become "offended" in tribulation (Matthew 13:20-21, Matthew 24:9-10), possibly even to the point of committing apostasy (Isaiah 8:21-22; 1 Timothy 4:1; 2 Thessalonians 2:3), to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Hebrews 6:4-8, John 15:6; 2 Timothy 2:12).

Just as it takes time for the root of a plant to grow, since it has to gradually work its way down through the soil and pebbles, so it takes time for the post-tribulation-rapture truth to work its way down through the fears and worries of our souls, and replace them with a root of fearlessness, courage, and determination, so that we might endure the future Tribulation with patience and faith to the end (Revelation 13:10, Revelation 14:12-13, Matthew 24:9-13).

Many who hold the pre-tribulation-rapture view, especially those who do so out of the utmost fear (whether they realize it or not), could be horribly blindsided when they realize that there is not going to be a pre-tribulation rapture, that (at some point in our future) they are in the Tribulation and will have to suffer through all of it. They could totally freak out at this, and their faith could completely fail.

But nothing requires that this has to happen to someone just because they hold to the pre-tribulation-rapture view. There will no doubt be some who hold to the pre-tribulation-rapture view who, faith-wise, will do just fine in the Tribulation. They will simply think: "Oh, well. I guess I read it wrong. No big deal. The Church has always had to suffer tribulation. May God see me through this". And they will knuckle down and endure the Tribulation with patience and faith to the end.

They could even put some people who held to the post-tribulation-rapture view to shame. For some people who held to the post-tribulation-rapture view could falter in their faith during the long suffering of the future Tribulation, despite their previous warnings to those who had held to the pre-tribulation-rapture view (cf. Job 4:3-5), not to mention the mistaken preterist and historicist views.

 

[jgr]

Revelation 12:6,14 doesn't contradict, but simply expands on Matthew 24:16, according to the principle of John 16:12.

There is no relationship between Matthew 24:16 and Revelation 12:6,14, the former having been historically fulfilled in the Judaean Christians' flight to the mountains before the Roman invasion.

Also, regarding the 1,260 days, "a time, and times, and half a time", and 42 months, they are all the same time period in the prophecies of Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5, Revelation 11:2-3, Daniel 7:25, and Daniel 12:7. They will be 1,260 literal days, just as, for example, the three days in the fulfilled prophecies of Luke 9:22 and Luke 18:33 were literal days, and the three days in the fulfilled prophecies of Genesis 40:13 and Genesis 40:19 were literal days. Similarly, the seventy years in the fulfilled prophecy of Jeremiah 29:10 (Daniel 9:2) were literal years (Zechariah 7:5), and the 400 years in the fulfilled prophecy of Genesis 15:13 were literal years.

The literal 1,260-day time period will be the time of the Antichrist's Luciferian/Satanic worldwide reign of terror (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), which time period is shown from four different angles in Revelation chapters 11 to 14 (Revelation 11:2b-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5,7, Revelation 14:9-13). The myriad details of these chapters have never been fulfilled, not even during a past time period of 1,260 years, as historicism mistakenly claims. But these details must be fulfilled (Revelation 1:1). So they will be fulfilled in our future, after the also-never-fulfilled details of Revelation chapters 6 to 10 are fulfilled in our future.

In Luke 13:31-33 Christ associates a day with a year in His ministry.

In Ezekiel 4:5-6 Ezekiel is commanded to lie on his left side for 390 days, followed by his right side for 40 days, to symbolize the equivalent number of years of punishment on Israel and Judah respectively.

In Daniel 7:25 the day-year association yields 1260 years corresponding to the papal Roman empire from 538-1798 AD.

Verse 21 refers to Revelation 16, which has never been fulfilled.

There is no relationship between Isaiah 26:21 and Revelation 16.

It could be fulfilled in a buried one.

A buried shipping container does not cease to be a shipping container.

And even if they instead rightly think: "Okay, we must have just been mistaken in thinking that the rapture was supposed to be pre-tribulation. Satan has not defeated God, and God did not lie to us", nonetheless, because they had held so strongly to the pre-trib idea for so long, their minds could be unprepared to face the long Tribulation that lies ahead of them (just as holding too strongly to the mistaken idea of preterism, or historicism, or symbolicism, or spiritualism, could leave some Christians unprepared mentally to endure the future Tribulation).

You forgot futurism. But the “-ism” is irrelevant. Insightful and recognizant believers know that tribulation has always been a part of Christian experience, as the associated Scriptures and history attest; and will never be surprised by it, or unprepared for it.

They also understand that the unique circumstances and characteristics of the 70 AD tribulation of Matthew 24 had no prior precedent, and will never be repeated. Jesus' words could not have been more accurate:
Matthew 24:21
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Of course, no faith should be put into anything but Christ the LORD (Psalms 127:1). But faith in Him is not sufficient by itself (Luke 6:46). We must also obey Him (John 14:15), including His commandment in Isaiah 26:20, however He shows us to fulfill it.

Christ's unmistakable commands to His New Testament saints are to expect, face, and embrace tribulation and persecution. His commands contain no mention or implication of shipping containers.

But John 8:32, just by itself, might also have a wider application, in that knowing other truths could help us to get free from bondage to other things. For example, John 8:32 could include the meaning that knowing the truth that the rapture (the gathering together) of the Church will be after the future Tribulation of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 18 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8) could help us to get free of a horrible fear of the Tribulation. For the post-tribulation-rapture view requires that one face one's fear of the Tribulation head-on and overcome that fear (cf. Revelation 2:10), while the pre-tribulation-rapture view allows one to smother over that fear with the false hope of a pre-tribulation rapture, while that fear continues to fester in one's subconscious nonetheless (cf. Hebrews 2:15).

No believer with a Scriptural understanding of tribulation has any fear, horrible or otherwise, of a future tribulation, because he and she understand that tribulation has always been part of the Christian experience. “Horrible fear” is limited to those without such understanding, such as some “tribulation trepidation” futurists.

 

[Bible2+]

jgr said in post #82:

There is no relationship between Matthew 24:16 and Revelation 12:6,14 . . .

There is.

For they both refer to when the Church will flee during the never-fulfilled Tribulation of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 18, immediately after which Tribulation Jesus will return (Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

jgr said in post #82:

In Luke 13:31-33 Christ associates a day with a year in His ministry.

"The third day I shall be perfected" (Luke 13:32) was referring to Jesus Christ's physical resurrection into immortality on the third literal day after His death on the Cross (Luke 9:22, Luke 18:33, Luke 24:7, Luke 24:46, Luke 24:39, Revelation 1:18).

jgr said in post #82:

In Ezekiel 4:5-6 Ezekiel is commanded to lie on his left side for 390 days, followed by his right side for 40 days, to symbolize the equivalent number of years of punishment on Israel and Judah respectively.

Ezekiel 4:4-5 refers to the prophet Ezekiel having to, only one time, lay bound (Ezekiel 4:8) by men (Ezekiel 3:25) on his left side for 390 literal days, to symbolically represent his bearing 390 past years of "the iniquity of the house of Israel" (Ezekiel 4:5). And Ezekiel 4:6 refers to Ezekiel subsequently having to, only one time, lay bound on his right side for forty literal days, to symbolically represent his bearing forty past years of "the iniquity of the house of Judah" (Ezekiel 4:6).

Ezekiel could not have lain on his side for 390 literal years.

But the punishment of Judah was a literal 70 years (Zechariah 7:5).

jgr said in post #82:

In Daniel 7:25 the day-year association yields 1260 years corresponding to the papal Roman empire from 538-1798 AD.

Daniel 7:21,25, like Daniel 12:7b, refers to the future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign of the Antichrist, the individual-man aspect of the beast (Revelation 13:4-18), which reign will occur during the second half of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24.

Daniel 12:7b means that at Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming, He will come to a Church which will have been completely defeated physically by the Antichrist. For during the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign, he will be allowed by God to make war against the Church and to overcome it physically in every nation (Revelation 13:5-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13). It is only when the Antichrist has completely broken all of the physical power of the Church that the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 will end (Daniel 12:7b), and Jesus' Second Coming will immediately occur, at which time He will physically resurrect and rapture (gather together) the Church (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6), of all times. And at His Second Coming, Jesus Christ will tread the winepress of God's wrath alone (Isaiah 63:3, Revelation 19:15-21), and so He/God will get all of the glory for defeating the power of evil on the earth (Deuteronomy 32:39-43). For He/God will not share this glory with the Church (cf. Isaiah 42:8-14, Isaiah 26:18).

jgr said in post #82:

There is no relationship between Isaiah 26:21 and Revelation 16.

There is.

For they both refer to a never-fulfilled time of God's wrath upon the earth, during the final stage of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24.

jgr said in post #82:

A buried shipping container does not cease to be a shipping container.

But it ceases to be one susceptible to nuclear blast and fallout, for example, things which could occur during the last part of Revelation 16, when "the cities of the nations" will fall, and great Babylon will come "in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath" (Revelation 16:19).

For Revelation's symbolic "Babylon" (Revelation chapters 17-18) represents all of fallen mankind's corrupt political (Revelation 17:18), economic (Revelation 18:11), and religious (Revelation 18:24) systems throughout the earth (Revelation 18:3) and throughout history (Revelation 17:9-10). The ten kings of the future Antichrist's empire will destroy with fire what Revelation's "Babylon" represents (Revelation 17:16-17) when they destroy the cities of the nations (Revelation 16:19), probably with nukes (and probably with Fission-Fusion-Fission, "FFF", or "666", nukes, "F" representing the number 6 in English gematria), at the time of the seventh vial (Revelation 16:17,19), which will be the final event (Revelation 16:17) of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, right before Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (Revelation 19:2 to 20:6, Matthew 24:29-31). They could do this under the direction of Lucifer/Satan (Isaiah 14:17,12), who could want to leave only a literal "scorched earth" for Jesus to return to.

Near the very end of the future Tribulation, Lucifer (employing the ancient lies of Gnosticism) could say to the Antichrist and his ten kings something like: "Our great battle against the evil, tyrant god YHWH is about to begin [Revelation 16:14, Revelation 19:19], a battle which we will win, and so we will be able to escape YHWH's prison house, this material universe, and return to the wholly-spiritual Pleroma [i.e. Heaven]. So let us now destroy this prison cell, this foul planet, and let us, as it were, burn up all of the gewgaws which we have hung upon our cell walls. Let us burn up all of our great cities, all of our magnificent systems. Let us break all of our chains of attachment to this vile, physical realm, that we might more freely ascend back to our rightful place in the Pleroma [cf. Isaiah 14:13-14]".

Of course this will be a lie. For at His Second Coming, Jesus Christ (who is YHWH: John 10:30, Zechariah 14:3-4) will completely defeat all of the armies of the world, arrayed against YHWH (Revelation 16:14, Revelation 19:19-21). And Jesus will have Lucifer bound in the Bottomless Pit for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:1-6, Isaiah 14:15), a time period commonly called the Millennium. During that time, Jesus will restore ruined parts of the earth and make them like the Garden of Eden (Ezekiel 36:35, Isaiah 51:3). And after the Millennium and subsequent events (Revelation 20:7-15), God will create a New Heaven (a new first heaven, a new sky/atmosphere for the earth), and a New Earth (a new surface for the earth) (Revelation 21:1). And then God will descend from the third heaven, in the literal city of New Jerusalem, to live with Christians on the New Earth (Revelation 21:2-4).

jgr said in post #82:

Insightful and recognizant believers know that tribulation has always been a part of Christian experience . . .

That's right (Acts 14:22).

But the Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 has never been fulfilled.

jgr said in post #82:

His commands contain no mention or implication of shipping containers.

They could in Isaiah 26:20.

 

[jgr]

They could in Isaiah 26:20.

The New Testament commands to New Testament saints are unambiguous: Expect, accept, and embrace persecution and tribulation.

You can't be a New Testament saint if you refuse to obey New Testament commands. (John 14:15,21; 1 John 2:3,4)

You can't obey New Testament commands whilst hiding in a shipping container.

 

[Bible2+]

jgr said in post #84:

The New Testament commands to New Testament saints are unambiguous: Expect, accept, and embrace persecution and tribulation.

But flee from it if you are able to (Matthew 10:23a, Matthew 24:15-16, Revelation 12:6,14).

That is, there will be some divinely-protected wilderness places which some Christians will flee to at the start of the future Antichrist's literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 12:6,14, Matthew 24:15-16), which will be during the latter half of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. And some Christians will still be "alive and remain" on the earth at Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17), which will be immediately after the Tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 19:7 to 20:4).

jgr said in post #84:

You can't be a New Testament saint if you refuse to obey New Testament commands. (John 14:15,21; 1 John 2:3,4)

You can be, but you will ultimately lose your salvation if you disobey without repentance (Hebrews 10:26-29).

jgr said in post #84:

You can't obey New Testament commands whilst hiding in a shipping container.

You can, if you are obeying Matthew 24:15-16 and fulfilling Revelation 12:6,14.

Also, nothing in the New Testament contradicts the never-fulfilled, prophetic command in Isaiah 26:20-21, which can be fulfilled, for example, by making a buried shipping container one's hiding "chamber".

Also, note Zephaniah 2:3b.

 

[Riberra]

But flee from it if you are able to (Matthew 10:23a, Matthew 24:15-16, Revelation 12:6,14).

That is, there will be some divinely-protected wilderness places which some Christians will flee to at the start of the future Antichrist's literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 12:6,14, Matthew 24:15-16), which will be during the latter half of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. And some Christians will still be "alive and remain" on the earth at Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17), which will be immediately after the Tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 19:7 to 20:4).

Have you actually tested the viability of the buried container as a survival solution ...let say during 1 full month ?If you have not tested your survival plan ,how can you be sure that solution can be viable during 42 months ?

 

[jgr]

But flee from it if you are able to (Matthew 10:23a, Matthew 24:15-16, Revelation 12:6,14).

Matthew 10:23a was instruction to the disciples on their first missionary assignment.
Matthew 24:15-16 was fulfilled by the Judaean Christians over 1900 years ago.
Revelation 12:6,14 refer to a literal wilderness, and therefore to a literal woman. I'm not a woman and so cannot fulfill them. Can you?

You can be, but you will ultimately lose your salvation if you disobey without repentance (Hebrews 10:26-29).

Right. And repentance means that you cease disobeying and resume obeying, which means that you resume embracing tribulation and persecution, which you cannot do hiding in your shipping container.

Also, nothing in the New Testament contradicts the never-fulfilled, prophetic command in Isaiah 26:20-21, which can be fulfilled, for example, by making a buried shipping container one's hiding "chamber".

Not a single one of the numerous New Testament verses which refer to tribulation or persecution can be used to justify hiding in a shipping container. So anyone hiding in a shipping container, but claiming to be a New Testament saint, would be guilty of disobeying our Lord's New Testament commands.

 

[Bible2+]

Riberra said in post #86:

If you have not tested your survival plan ,how can you be sure that solution can be viable . . .

What do you think could make it not viable?

 

[Bible2+]

jgr said in post #87:

Matthew 10:23a was instruction to the disciples on their first missionary assignment.

And still applies to Christians today, up until the Second Coming (Matthew 10:23b).

jgr said in post #87:

Matthew 24:15-16 was fulfilled by the Judaean Christians over 1900 years ago.

Matthew 24:15-16 has never been fulfilled, but will be fulfilled during the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, which will occur immediately prior to the Second Coming (Matthew 24:29-31).

jgr said in post #87:

Revelation 12:6,14 refer to a literal wilderness, and therefore to a literal woman.

No, the wilderness is literal while the woman represents Christians.

Similarly, for example, parts of Revelation 5:6 are literal (God's throne in heaven, the four beasts, the 24 elders, Jesus Christ having been slain, the seven Spirits of God, the earth) and parts of Revelation 5:6 are symbolic (Jesus being a lamb, His having seven horns, His having seven eyes).

jgr said in post #87:

And repentance means that you cease disobeying and resume obeying, which means that you resume embracing tribulation and persecution, which you cannot do hiding in your shipping container.

Christians are commanded to flee from persecution when they are able to (Matthew 10:23, Matthew 24:15-16, Revelation 12:6,14).

And they are commanded to hide in protective chambers during God's future wrath against the world (Isaiah 26:20-21).

 

[Riberra]

What do you think could make it not viable?

Food and water supply ...how do you manage to get them if you cannot buy any of these without the mark during the 42 months reign of the Beast?

 

[jgr]

And still applies to Christians today, up until the Second Coming (Matthew 10:23b).

Jesus was informing the disciples that he would be rejoining them before they completed their assignment. That occurred at some point in the missionary circuit that both the disciples and Jesus embarked upon. (Matthew 11:1). The disciples may have started at one end, Jesus at the other, and they reconnected in the middle.

The gospel was preached in the whole world before the end of the first century, so that certainly included all the cities of Israel. (Romans 1:8; Romans 16:26; Colossians 1:5,6,23)

Matthew 24:15-16 has never been fulfilled, but will be fulfilled during the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, which will occur immediately prior to the Second Coming (Matthew 24:29-31).

Matthew 24:15-16 was fulfilled by the Judaean Christians over 1900 years ago.

No, the wilderness is literal while the woman represents Christians.

If the woman were literal, she would have been fleeing to a specific literal wilderness. Since the wilderness is literal, which one is it? There are many wildernesses on earth.

Christians are commanded to flee from persecution when they are able to (Matthew 10:23, Matthew 24:15-16, Revelation 12:6,14).

And they are commanded to hide in protective chambers during God's future wrath against the world (Isaiah 26:20-21)

You would be disobeying God's clear and explicit commands in John 16:33, Acts 14:22, Romans 5:3, Romans 12:12, Romans 12:12, 2 Corinthians 7:4, 1 Thessalonians 3:4, 2 Thessalonians 1:4, Revelation 1:9, Revelation 2:9, Revelation 2:10, Revelation 7:14, Matthew 5:10-12, Matthew 5:44, Luke 21:12, John 15:20, Romans 8:35, Romans 12:14, 1 Corinthians 4:12, 2 Corinthians 4:9, 2 Corinthians 12:10, 2 Thessalonians 1:4, 2 Timothy 3:12.

That's more than twenty verses.

On the basis of probability alone, you've misinterpreted what you think are your commands.

 

[jgr]

Food and water supply ...how do you manage to get them if you cannot buy any of these without the mark during the 42 months reign of the Beast?

And Bible2+ thinks we're going to be nuked, so he dare not emerge into a radioactive moonscape.

There are a few other prior considerations:

"The largest US nuclear test, the Castle Bravo test on Bikini Atoll in 1954, left a crater 2000 meters in diameter and 74 meters deep for a hydrogen bomb with a yield of 15 megatons detonated at ground level."

Today's atom bombs are several times that yield.

That's a crater over 200 feet deep, so his bulldozer would have to excavate to that depth before installing his shipping container.

Then he'd have to backfill everything he'd excavated, but leave an exit passageway to the surface.

But fear not, he'll get 'er done.

I forgot...he's out in the wilderness.

 

[Bible2+]

Riberra said in post #90:

Food and water supply ...how do you manage to get them if you cannot buy any of these without the mark during the 42 months reign of the Beast?

You buy canned food and bottled water ahead of time, and store them in your buried shipping container, before the 42 months.

Also, Daniel 12:11-12 and Revelation 16:15 could mean that 1,335 literal days after the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) is set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of a future, third Jewish temple in Jerusalem (Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31), Jesus Christ's Second Coming will occur, and blessed are those Christians who will wait and remain obedient until that day. If the literal 1,260 days of the future Antichrist's worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-8, Revelation 12:6) will begin when the abomination of desolation is set up; and if the seven vials of God's wrath will begin on the day after the 1,260 days of the Antichrist's worldwide reign (Revelation 11:15,19, Revelation 15:5 to 16:1); and if the first six vials will be poured out over thirty days; then the sixth vial could be poured out on the 1,290th day after the abomination of desolation is set up (Daniel 12:11).

It is on this 1,290th day that the blessing of Daniel 12:12 and Revelation 16:15 could be given, after the sixth vial has been poured out (Revelation 16:12), encouraging those in the Church who will still be alive on the earth at that time to keep holding on just 45 more days until Jesus Christ's Second Coming on the 1,335th day. The 45 days could be taken up by the gathering together of the world's armies to Armageddon (Revelation 16:14,16) (Har Megiddo: Mount Megiddo in northern Israel), and then their moving south to pillage Jerusalem, right before Jesus' Second Coming and their total defeat (Zechariah 14:2-21, Revelation 19:19-21).

 

[Bible2+]

jgr said in post #91:

Jesus was informing the disciples that he would be rejoining them before they completed their assignment.

That's right.

For nothing requires that the twelve apostles (Matthew 10:5) addressed in Matthew 10:23b preached in every town in first century AD Israel before they died, just as Christian preachers today still have not preached in every town in Israel. For Christian proselytizing is outlawed in Israel today.

But Matthew 10:23b's "till the Son of man be come" refers to His never-fulfilled Second Coming (Matthew 24:30).

And Jesus Christ will return "in like manner" as He ascended (Acts 1:11b), in that just as at the end of His first coming, He was seen by literal eyes to ascend physically from the Mount of Olives into a literal cloud and on into heaven (Acts 1:9,12, cf. Luke 24:39), so at His future, Second Coming, He will be seen in literal clouds by literal eyes (Revelation 1:7, Matthew 24:30) to physically descend from heaven (1 Thessalonians 4:16) and set His feet on the Mount of Olives (Zechariah 14:3-21).

jgr said in post #91:

Matthew 24:15-16 was fulfilled by the Judaean Christians over 1900 years ago.

It has never been fulfilled, just as the surrounding Tribulation of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 18 has never been fulfilled.

For example, Revelation 8:8a could refer to the future collapse into the ocean of a huge, erupting volcano, possibly one of the Canary Islands. Revelation 8:8b could refer to one-third of the North Atlantic turning blood-red due to a gigantic amount of blood-red mud pouring forth from the volcano into the sea during an extended period of time. Revelation 8:9a could refer to one-third of the sea creatures in the North Atlantic dying because of there being so much mud in the water. And Revelation 8:9b could refer to one-third of the North Atlantic's ships being destroyed in port by a massive tsunami caused by the volcano's collapse into the ocean. This tsunami could destroy the eastern seaboard of the U.S.

jgr said in post #91:

[Re: Rev. 12]
If the woman were literal, she would have been fleeing to a specific literal wilderness.

That's right.

But she is figurative of Christians around the world, who will flee to literal wilderness places around the world.

Also, as with Elijah, God can send a raven to feed us (1 Kings 17:4). Or, like with the Israelites, at the proper time, God can send a Joseph to feed us (Genesis 45:7-13). Or, He can show us that we need to be a Joseph for ourselves and others (cf. 1 Timothy 5:8, Matthew 24:45-46). There could be some future Josephs (and Josephines), Christians who will prepare different, fully-stocked hiding places in the wilderness to which some Christians will flee at the start of the future Antichrist's literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5-18).

jgr said in post #91:

There are many wildernesses on earth.

Thank God.

jgr said in post #91:

You would be disobeying God's clear and explicit commands in John 16:33, Acts 14:22, Romans 5:3, Romans 12:12, Romans 12:12, 2 Corinthians 7:4, 1 Thessalonians 3:4, 2 Thessalonians 1:4, Revelation 1:9, Revelation 2:9, Revelation 2:10, Revelation 7:14, Matthew 5:10-12, Matthew 5:44, Luke 21:12, John 15:20, Romans 8:35, Romans 12:14, 1 Corinthians 4:12, 2 Corinthians 4:9, 2 Corinthians 12:10, 2 Thessalonians 1:4, 2 Timothy 3:12.

Note that none of those verses would be disobeyed by obeying Matthew 10:23, Matthew 24:15-16, Revelation 12:6,14, and Isaiah 26:20-21.

*******

jgr said in post #92:

. . . so he dare not emerge into a radioactive moonscape.

Not until the Second Coming, when Jesus Christ can miraculously remedy any radiation problem (even a worldwide one).

jgr said in post #92:

"The largest US nuclear test, the Castle Bravo test on Bikini Atoll in 1954, left a crater 2000 meters in diameter and 74 meters deep for a hydrogen bomb with a yield of 15 megatons detonated at ground level."

Today's atom bombs are several times that yield.

That's a crater over 200 feet deep, so his bulldozer would have to excavate to that depth before installing his shipping container.

No, for the future Antichrist's nukes will be targeted at "the cities of the nations" (Revelation 16:19, Revelation 17:16-17), not at God-protected places way out in the wilderness/mountains (Revelation 12:6,14, Matthew 24:15-16).

 

[Riberra]

You buy canned food and bottled water ahead of time, and store them in your buried shipping container, before the 42 months.

Stocking canned food and water bottles for 42 months will take all the space of the container...
How long canned food and water bottles can be conserved ?Surely not during 42 months.

 

[jgr]

That's right.

For nothing requires that the twelve apostles (Matthew 10:5) addressed in Matthew 10:23b preached in every town in first century AD Israel before they died, just as Christian preachers today still have not preached in every town in Israel. For Christian proselytizing is outlawed in Israel today.

But Matthew 10:23b's "till the Son of man be come" refers to His never-fulfilled Second Coming (Matthew 24:30).

And Jesus Christ will return "in like manner" as He ascended (Acts 1:11b), in that just as at the end of His first coming, He was seen by literal eyes to ascend physically from the Mount of Olives into a literal cloud and on into heaven (Acts 1:9,12, cf. Luke 24:39), so at His future, Second Coming, He will be seen in literal clouds by literal eyes (Revelation 1:7, Matthew 24:30) to physically descend from heaven (1 Thessalonians 4:16) and set His feet on the Mount of Olives (Zechariah 14:3-21).



It has never been fulfilled, just as the surrounding Tribulation of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 18 has never been fulfilled.

For example, Revelation 8:8a could refer to the future collapse into the ocean of a huge, erupting volcano, possibly one of the Canary Islands. Revelation 8:8b could refer to one-third of the North Atlantic turning blood-red due to a gigantic amount of blood-red mud pouring forth from the volcano into the sea during an extended period of time. Revelation 8:9a could refer to one-third of the sea creatures in the North Atlantic dying because of there being so much mud in the water. And Revelation 8:9b could refer to one-third of the North Atlantic's ships being destroyed in port by a massive tsunami caused by the volcano's collapse into the ocean. This tsunami could destroy the eastern seaboard of the U.S.



That's right.

But she is figurative of Christians around the world, who will flee to literal wilderness places around the world.

Also, as with Elijah, God can send a raven to feed us (1 Kings 17:4). Or, like with the Israelites, at the proper time, God can send a Joseph to feed us (Genesis 45:7-13). Or, He can show us that we need to be a Joseph for ourselves and others (cf. 1 Timothy 5:8, Matthew 24:45-46). There could be some future Josephs (and Josephines), Christians who will prepare different, fully-stocked hiding places in the wilderness to which some Christians will flee at the start of the future Antichrist's literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5-18).



Thank God.



Note that none of those verses would be disobeyed by obeying Matthew 10:23, Matthew 24:15-16, Revelation 12:6,14, and Isaiah 26:20-21.

*******



Not until the Second Coming, when Jesus Christ can miraculously remedy any radiation problem (even a worldwide one).



No, for the future Antichrist's nukes will be targeted at "the cities of the nations" (Revelation 16:19, Revelation 17:16-17), not at God-protected places way out in the wilderness/mountains (Revelation 12:6,14, Matthew 24:15-16).

And thus concludes this episode of "Interpretation By Imagination" for myself and all of us patient (or psychotic) enough to last this long.

It's been, once again, entertaining and revealing.

 

[Bible2+]

Riberra said in post #95:

Stocking canned food and water bottles for 42 months will take all the space of the container...

How do you figure that?

For shipping containers are huge, while water bottles and cans of food are small.

Also, focus on canned food which is dense, like canned meat and fish, with lesser but sufficient amounts of canned vegetables and fruit.

Riberra said in post #95:

How long canned food and water bottles can be conserved? Surely not during 42 months.

Surely yes.

For look at the expiration dates on the canned food and bottled water in your grocery store. You will be surprised at how many years they can last. Thank God.

Also, their expiration dates are only for their "best use". I.e., they can still be safely and nutritionally eaten and drunk a year or two after their dates. They just won't be in their best, as in their most flavorful and visually-appealing, states.

 

[Riberra]

How do you figure that?

For shipping containers are huge, while water bottles and cans of food are small.

The space needed for Storing a 3-Day Emergency Supply of canned foods and water bottles + other essentials looks like that....multiply this by 425 [3 x 425]to wait [in your buried shipping container] for the return of Jesus at 1275 days

Store a 3-Day Emergency Supply

 

[Bible2+]

Riberra said in post #98:

The space needed for Storing a 3-Day Emergency Supply of canned foods and water bottles + other essentials looks like that...

You could probably live okay for 3 days without that much stuff, and without all those different kinds of stuff.

Also, shipping containers can be 53 feet long and something like 8 feet high and 8 feet wide, so even all of the stuff you have there would take up only a very small part of the container, especially if the stuff is packed very-tightly together.

Riberra said in post #98:

....multiply this by 425 [3 x 425]to wait [in your buried shipping container] for the return of Jesus at 1275 days

On what do you base the 1275 days?

Plan instead for a possible 1335 days from the abomination of desolation to the Second Coming (Daniel 12:11-12, Revelation 16:15).

Also, if you're storing up for a lot of people, you can simply bury more shipping containers, next to each other, and then cut doorways between them.

 

[Riberra]

You could probably live okay for 3 days without that much stuff, and without all those different kinds of stuff.

You need water not only for drinking but also for personal hygiene...

Also, shipping containers can be 53 feet long and something like 8 feet high and 8 feet wide, so even all of the stuff you have there would take up only a very small part of the container, especially if the stuff is packed very-tightly together.



On what do you base the 1275 days?

Plan instead for a possible 1335 days from the abomination of desolation to the Second Coming (Daniel 12:11-12, Revelation 16:15).

Also, if you're storing up for a lot of people, you can simply bury more shipping containers, next to each other, and then cut doorways between them.

Do you have actually a shipping container buried in the wilderness or is it only a project on paper ?

Your container will need to be reinforced to support tons of sand on it.