seventysevens
Well-Known Member
But more importantly Revelation is about Revealing Jesus return to earth as King on earth and that Kingdom will Never end
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This sort of reply shows the extreme bias against those who try to warn and prepare others about the forthcoming last days of this age events.ANY theological position that Rests its hat on the notion that the Divinely inspired Apostles were not only IN error but TAUGHT THEIR ERROR to their flocks, ought be automatically rejected.
Yes. I have a bias toward apostolic inerrancy. I freely admit such.This sort of reply shows the extreme bias against those who try to warn and prepare others about the forthcoming last days of this age events.
The Apostles did think that Jesus could Return at any time.
That was what God wanted, so as His people would be constantly in anticipation of Jesus' Return. Exactly how it has been thru the age.
Only now, with the benefit of hindsight, we can see from the world situation; that the Return is very close.
People can believe whatever they like, but teaching and promoting those false beliefs, is very serious and will incur Judgement.
My reference was in regard to the results shown in that thread - and that thread was created based on what is in this thread , the temple destruction in 70 AD supposedly being referenced in Revelation
So now you want to keep the results out of this thread ....
For the record, I don't disagree with the way some of you are interpreting passages such as that in the OT.
But to apply that the same way to any comings on clouds, concerning Christ, that's what I disagree with.
Anything involving clouds and Christ involve a literal physical coming. Daniel 7:13-14, for one, proves it.
Exactly You state that the Book of Revelation supports your view in regards to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD . As such it is relevant to show that it does not support that view , you want to use it to support your view but at the same time you don't want anyone to use it to show that it does not support the 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem.What?...... I started a new thread so as to not derail this thread. Which is about the 6th seal. Which is in regards to the destruction of Jerusalem.
Wel, my guess is, if you had any proof that Rev was penned after 70AD you'd have presented it by now....Exactly You state that the Book of Revelation supports your view in regards to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD . As such it is relevant to show that it does not support that view , you want to use it to support your view but at the same time you don't want anyone to use it to show that it does not support the 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem.
As stated ..Wel, my guess is,
How does Daniel 7:13-14 prove that?
Obviously this involved a literal physical coming, keeping in mind, the text indicates---one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven.
After that it says----and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
All of that obviously involves a physical appearence and physical presence of the one seen who came with the clouds of heaven.
If that coming with the clouds of heaven, and if meaning Christ, involved a literal physical coming, as in He was initially somewhere else, then arrived at the above location, why would any other passages involving Christ, having to do with clouds of heaven, not also involve a literal physical coming, where He is also initially somewhere else, and then arrives at a new location?
As to the latter, why not this? He was initially in heaven, meaning where He is now, post His death and resurrection, and when He is seen coming in the clouds of heaven, the destination is now the earth, as in coming there literally and physically---Matthew 24:30, as an example.
As stated ..
But more importantly Revelation is about Revealing Jesus return to earth as King on earth and that Kingdom will Never end
That has not happened
Boy you sure are in for a big surprise when he really returns literally , If it had begun the world would be a whole lot differentJesus is King on Earth Today.
There is no name on earth today with Power and Dominion above His.
We do agree it is without end, We just disagree on when it began
So the Ancient of Days has a Physical Appearance? has flesh and bone?
Or is it Just one like a Son of Man that does?
Or are you suggesting Christ was Physically "appearing near before" a non Physical Entity?
Jesus is King on Earth Today.
There is no name on earth today with Power and Dominion above His.
We do agree it is without end, We just disagree on when it began
Agreed
Yet, In EVERY OT instance of Yahweh being SEEN "coming" down to earth riding clouds, wielding His sword and killing people with his Brightness, The prophets used that explicit VISUAL language to describe God in Heaven using Human armies as His instruments of Judgement on earth.
Every one.
Where is your scriptural instruction to apply a POLAR OPPOSITE interpretation to Christ's Coming on the Clouds described in the NT?
Where is the Historical Documentation of this GLOBALLY VISIBLE EVENT?:
The Lord hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; (Is 52:10)
Where is the documentation of God's Physical Arm being seen by every eye of everyone in every nation as the Prophet said?
Again, According to the prophets, The stars fell from heaven when the Medes Sacked Babylon (Isaiah 13)
According to the prophets, the Heavens receeded like a scroll at the fall of Edom (Isaiah 34)
According to the prophets, the World's mountains quaked and melted at the fall of Nineveh (Nahum 1)
So I ask again, Since Scripture interprets scripture, Where is your scriptural instruction to Interpret language like Stars falling, sun darkening, heaven rolling up like a scroll, mountains melting, Locally and Figuratively when it is used to describe already fulfilled National Judgments in the OT, but suddenly apply a polar opposite "literal, universal" interpretation to the exact same language when it is found in the NT?
The prophet prophecied the stars would fall when the Medes sacked Babylon but there is no written record of it ever happening because it hasn't happened yet.
You are claiming something happened that hasn't happened yet.
Good point. Clearly some of those things brought up in those passages are yet to be fulfilled, just like you indicated. But of course though, when one is debating a Preterist, via their perspective, expect pretty much everything to have already been historically fulfilled. Clearly some of it would be, but all of it though?
One of the best scriptures that refers to the Return of Jesus, is 2 Thessalonians 2:1-17.None of them taught He could return "at any time in the next 2000 years." Not even one. Rather, they ALL taught their contemporaries to prepare for His Coming in THEIR DAY.
John the Revelator was exiled to Patmos by the Emperor Domitian. 81-96 ADI have requested, multiple times, a similar list from anyone claiming "most scholars" prefer the late (90'sAD) date.
In heaven, the kingdom Jesus was given is the Kingdom of Heaven, a kingdom not of this world.If Christ didn't receive dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, once He initially returned to heaven, when will He be given these things then if the above is not referring to any of that when He initially returned to heaven?