God does not love everyone and the Bible says so (Change My Mind)

corinth77777

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I'm still trying to follow, but I forget easily so I hope you make your point soon...lol

I have never got into trying to understand election. But off hand without reading I would say we are elected in Christ. But I like the humblebees that was brought to the thread....to say stop making it about what we want to prove and the Bible will open up. God's word is more than where we are in the ideals that have been handed to us.

So if I didn't get anything else out of this thread it teaches me to read the Bible the best way with a blank slate.
God did harden hearts in the Old testament.
Therefore one may see opportunity to believe on the other flip side of the coin.
 
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Hammster

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I posted verses which showed that Jesus invited people to come to him, and said that whoever comes, accepts and believes will have eternal life.

This was in response to a statement from you that God throws sinners into hell. I was showing that Jesus invites us to follow, and choose.
Romans 6:23 says that the gift of God is eternal life - a gift is not ours if we don't accept it.
You start off okay, and then add claims that the Bible doesn’t make.

Yes, Jesus invited. And whoever comes will have eternal life. I’ve covered that by pointing out in John 10 that His sheep hear His voice (listen).

But nowhere does the Bible say that because eternal life is a gift, it’s not ours unless we accept it.
 
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Strong in Him

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but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. - John 10:26

The Pharisees didn't believe what Jesus was saying because they didn't accept him; you seem to have proved my point.

If they had accepted and praised God for the miracle of the man born blind, John 9, if they had listened to his explanations and teachings, they would have begun to understand and know him. If they had decided they wanted to know more, they would have followed him and listened to what he had to say. They didn't. So they didn't believe because they weren't one of his followers; they didn't know him or what he was about. And they weren't one of his followers because they didn't believe or want to follow, but were convinced that they were right and he was wrong.
 
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Hammster

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Because there is no Greater Reward than Eternity with the Love of our Life.
While that’s true, it doesn’t answer my question. What would make someone who hates God change and start loving Him?
 
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Strong in Him

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But nowhere does the Bible say that because eternal life is a gift, it’s not ours unless we accept it.

So who has eternal life then?
Everyone? God sends it to us from heaven, like the rain, and says "here".
Or only a select few that God picked from all those he created, while determining to send the others to hell?

Again, John says that whoever does NOT love is not from God and does not know God, because God is love.
God IS love. Were he able to not love he would be going against his nature and denying himself.
 
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The Pharisees didn't believe what Jesus was saying because they didn't accept him; you seem to have proved my point.

If they had accepted and praised God for the miracle of the man born blind, John 9, if they had listened to his explanations and teachings, they would have begun to understand and know him. If they had decided they wanted to know more, they would have followed him and listened to what he had to say. They didn't. So they didn't believe because they weren't one of his followers; they didn't know him or what he was about. And they weren't one of his followers because they didn't believe or want to follow, but were convinced that they were right and he was wrong.
But you are turning what Christ said on its ear. You are acting as if He said “you are not my sheep because you don’t believe”.
 
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So who has eternal life then?
Everyone? God sends it to us from heaven, like the rain, and says "here".
Or only a select few that God picked from all those he created, while determining to send the others to hell?

Again, John says that whoever does NOT love is not from God and does not know God, because God is love.
God IS love. Were he able to not love he would be going against his nature and denying himself.
Does God have wrath?
 
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corinth77777

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So I guess one could say whosoever thats hearts have not been hardened can come to Him...Which still doesn't define how the elect totally are elected fully
I’ve been guilty of that myself.
That's good it teaches us to be patient....when we can see we were once there
 
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Strong in Him

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But you are turning what Christ said on its ear. You are acting as if He said “you are not my sheep because you don’t believe”.

He didn't say that in so many words, but that is what was happening.
The Pharisees (mostly) didn't accept Jesus; they set questions to trap him, they criticised his miracles for being on the "wrong" day, and even said that he did them by the power of the devil. Because that was their attitude to Jesus they mostly didn't follow him - though even then, a couple did.
The people who believed in Jesus, in his teaching and miracles, followed him. As they followed him, they would have learnt, and believed, more, and that would probably have deepened their discipleship.
 
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Neogaia777

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He does tell us.

23 And I will vindicate the holiness of my great name, which has been profaned among the nations, and which you have profaned among them. And the nations will know that I am the LORD, declares the Lord GOD, when through you I vindicate my holiness before their eyes.
24 I will take you from the nations and gather you from all the countries and bring you into your own land.
25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you.
26 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules. - Ezekiel 36:23-27

It’s because of this passage that Jesus rebuked Nicodemus about being a teacher of Israel, and not being aware of being born from above.
He tells us that he will change our hearts then...? Is that all of us then...? Or is it based on certain conditions...? Or is to only apply to certain types or kinds of people..? or what...?

Do we not have to make or put forth any effort of our own at all...? Anything at all having to do with our choosing at all...?

Se that is what we don't know, and all to often when we think we know, or are very sure of it being us, upon further reflection and pondering, and questioning and doubting, due to not seeing the proof or fruit much of the time, is exactly when we find out we are wrong all to often, and much of the time...

Obey what rules...? Be sinless all the time...? quite impossible...

Clean how...? New heart how...? How does that act...? What does that do...? How does that behave...?

Too many unknowns to know for sure, and usually those thinking they are sure (it is them) are all to often "wrong" or turn out to be wrong much of the time...

All that tells us is that "God does it", which is what I said... But how/whether/what/when we decide or have decided it applies to us personally for ourselves (and we (all to often) need to see proof or evidence of that to believe it), which is where "all the other questions" come in... And right when we think we are so sure, it all too often turns out to not be "real" or true or genuine, especially independent of our choice being involved, or we find out that we might be wrong and doubt it due to the way we act later on...

It always seems to us as if our choice or choosing, (for example that that is about us or applies to us, or to believe or not), anyway, it always seems that our choice or choosing is involved somehow, even if it's not really... God wants to live as if our choice is involved, yes, but he knows, "absolutely everything", even the most minor choices we make, or "all" the "programming" involved, or influences that influenced us in our thinking and making those or certain decisions, or actions taken, down to the most minor, smallest detail... He knows it all, but we do not... So, we must act as if we do have choice or are making choices, cause we have no choice but to do that...

If you can make a choice, completely and entirely independent of any and all other influences, (that God knows in great detail) then great, you have "free will", but if you can't, you do not...

But, what do you do about it...? How should you proceed...? What other choice do you have but to proceed as if you do have choice...?

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

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So I guess one could say whosoever thats hearts have not been hardened can come to Him...Which still doesn't define how the elect totally are elected fully

That's good it teaches us to be patient....when we can see we were once there
A hard heart is definitely a bad thing...?

A lot of us on here, myself included, need to work on that much of the time...

And patience as well...

God Bless!
 
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Strong in Him

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Does God have wrath?

Against sin and the devil, yes.
Wrath is anger. You can be furious with someone and still love them - with the exception of the devil who is totally against, and the opposite to, God.
 
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Neogaia777

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Does God have wrath?
Not toward those that believe and are under the NC with Christ... Well, he still does toward those one sometimes as well, but does not apply it to them, due to Christ...

He held Christ responsible, long ago, for all those that would believe in him and follow him... and he already paid the ultimate price for them, so God does not express or show his wrath toward those ones, but shows them love due to his great love for Christ, and not much having to do with our own selves...

God Bless!
 
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Grip Docility

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Does God have wrath?

I’m pretty sure He’s manifesting it on this thread, through me and others that know how wicked the statement “God Doesn’t Love Everybody”, is.

;)
 
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He didn't say that in so many words, but that is what was happening.
The Pharisees (mostly) didn't accept Jesus; they set questions to trap him, they criticised his miracles for being on the "wrong" day, and even said that he did them by the power of the devil. Because that was their attitude to Jesus they mostly didn't follow him - though even then, a couple did.
The people who believed in Jesus, in his teaching and miracles, followed him. As they followed him, they would have learnt, and believed, more, and that would probably have deepened their discipleship.
How about we stick with what He actually said instead of “reading between the lines”?
 
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He tells us that he will change our hearts then...? Is that all of us then...? Or is it based on certain conditions...? Or is to only apply to certain types or kinds of people..? or what...?

Do we not have to make or put forth any effort of our own at all...? Anything at all having to do with our choosing at all...?

Se that is what we don't know, and all to often when we think we know, or are very sure of it being us, upon further reflection and pondering, and questioning and doubting, due to not seeing the proof or fruit much of the time, is exactly when we find out we are wrong all to often, and much of the time...

Obey what rules...? Be sinless all the time...? quite impossible...

Clean how...? New heart how...? How does that act...? What does that do...? How does that behave...?

Too many unknowns to know for sure, and usually those thinking they are sure (it is them) are all to often "wrong" or turn out to be wrong much of the time...

All that tells us is that "God does it", which is what I said... But how/whether/what/when we decide or have decided it applies to us personally for ourselves (and we (all to often) need to see proof or evidence of that to believe it), which is where "all the other questions" come in... And right when we think we are so sure, it all too often turns out to not be "real" or true or genuine, especially independent of our choice being involved, or we find out that we might be wrong and doubt it due to the way we act later on...

It always seems to us as if our choice or choosing, (for example that that is about us or applies to us, or to believe or not), anyway, it always seems that our choice or choosing is involved somehow, even if it's not really... God wants to live as if our choice is involved, yes, but he knows, "absolutely everything", even the most minor choices we make, or "all" the "programming" involved, or influences that influenced us in our thinking and making those or certain decisions, or actions taken, down to the most minor, smallest detail... He knows it all, but we do not... So, we must act as if we do have choice or are making choices, cause we have no choice but to do that...

If you can make a choice, completely and entirely independent of any and all other influences, (that God knows in great detail) then great, you have "free will", but if you can't, you do not...

But, what do you do about it...? How should you proceed...? What other choice do you have but to proceed as if you do have choice...?

God Bless!
You need to reduce this down a bit. That’s way too many questions to address in one post.
 
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Against sin and the devil, yes.
Wrath is anger. You can be furious with someone and still love them - with the exception of the devil who is totally against, and the opposite to, God.
Do you know that scripture describes us as having the same nature?
 
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