Galatians 3 - shows New Covenant Gospel is before Sinai

[The7thColporteur]

What do you think the rules are?

What do you think I think "the rules" that you mentioned are?

 

[The7thColporteur]

Which priesthood existed in Abrahams day?
Ge 14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.
Heb 7:1 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
Heb 7:2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;

Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Sort of a interesting question, depending upon how one approaches it, for it could be approached in this manner of Paul:

Hebrews 7:5 KJB - And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

Hebrews 7:10 KJB - For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.​

 

[The7thColporteur]

How does your argument change the fact "the law was?"

The "law [and the prophets] was" what?

 

[Cribstyl]

Galatians 3
18 For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

What "inheritance"? -- Hebrews 11 - "New Jerusalem" heavenly Canaan.
Heb 11
9 By faith he dwelt in the land of promise as in a foreign country, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise; 10 for he waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
...
13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off were assured of them, embraced them and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For those who say such things declare plainly that they seek a homeland. 15 And truly if they had called to mind that country from which they had come out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.

The Gospel/ The Covenant / The promise --

Pray then Read Gal 3 "The inheritance" spoken of in this context is the adoption into God's family through the seed Jesus Christ.
Paul sends us back to God's first words to Abraham (Gen 12:1) It should not be a secret to anyone that THE PROMISE is these words in Gen 12:3) And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

Paul's argument in Gal 3:18 is; God made a promise. If the promise required keeping the law, it's no longer a promise.

 

[Cribstyl]

The "law [and the prophets] was" what?

The law and the prophets is a reference to the OLD TESTAMENT. THE LAW is Genesis- Deuteronomy. (includes the law)
The text meant The preaching of the law and the prophets was until John, from that time the gospel of the kingdom is being preached.
SDA doctrine must deny the scripture saying the law is not preached anymore. They believe that the law is part of the gospel.

 

[listed]

What do you think I think "the rules" that you mentioned are?

I asked first. I didn't ask for the dodge.

 

[listed]

The "law [and the prophets] was" what?

So change the context. The verse says "was until John" meaning is no more.

 

[Cribstyl]

How does your argument change the fact "the law was?"

Yep, they ignore what the scripture is saying about the law and the prophet being the preaching that was in place until John came preaching (the kingdom of God) and baptizing.

 

[ralliann]

Sort of a interesting question, depending upon how one approaches it, for it could be approached in this manner of Paul:

Hebrews 7:5 KJB - And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

Hebrews 7:10 KJB - For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.​

Heb 7:9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.
Another consideration..
Nu 18:20 And the LORD spake unto Aaron, Thou shalt have no inheritance in their land, neither shalt thou have any part among them: I am thy part and thine inheritance among the children of Israel.
Nu 18:23 But the Levites shall do the service of the tabernacle of the congregation, and they shall bear their iniquity: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations, that among the children of Israel they have no inheritance.
Nu 18:24 But the tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer as an heave offering unto the LORD, I have given to the Levites to inherit: therefore I have said unto them, Among the children of Israel they shall have no inheritance.
Nu 26:62 And those that were numbered of them were twenty and three thousand, all males from a month old and upward: for they were not numbered among the children of Israel, because there was no inheritance given them among the children of Israel.
De 18:2 Therefore shall they have no inheritance among their brethren: the LORD is their inheritance, as he hath said unto them.
No inheritance with Israel seems no big deal in this light.

 

[The7thColporteur]

I asked first. I didn't ask for the dodge.

*Ahem*. I asked you first by what you meant when you said "the rules".

Galatians 3 - shows New Covenant Gospel is before Sinai

 

[ralliann]

So change the context. The verse says "was until John" meaning is no more.

How about this verse? The law prophesied....or the prophetic utterances given in Moses law....
Mt 11:13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
De 31:21 And it shall come to pass, when many evils and troubles are befallen them, that this song shall testify against them as a witness; for it shall not be forgotten out of the mouths of their seed: for I know their imagination which they go about, even now, before I have brought them into the land which I sware.
De 28:36 The LORD shall bring thee, and thy king which thou shalt set over thee, unto a nation which neither thou nor thy fathers have known; and there shalt thou serve other gods, wood and stone.

 

[The7thColporteur]

The law and the prophets is a reference to the OLD TESTAMENT. THE LAW is Genesis- Deuteronomy. (includes the law)

On a basic level, yes. We already know this and teach this. For instance:

"... 3. The expression, "The law and the prophets prophesied until John," does not teach that the law there ceased. Luke says, The law and the prophets were [were preached] until John; since that time the kingdom of God is preached, etc. Luke xvi, 16. But if this shows, as Eld. P. claims, that the law there ceased, it shows just as much that the prophets also ceased. It the law "there, in the time of John, deceased," the prophets then and there deceased also; and to be consistent he must abandon his teaching relative to the book of Daniel, and every other Old Testament prophet. {April 26, 1864 JWe, ARSH 170.31}

What then does the expression mean? Simply this: The law and the prophets prophesied, or were preached, Luke, until John, but since then the kingdom of God is preached. That is, all that the people had, up to the time of John, was the law and the prophets, but since then they have had the preaching of the kingdom of God, in addition to the law and prophets. {April 26, 1864 JWe, ARSH 170.32} ..." - Advent Review and Sabbath Herald; April 26, 1864​

... The text meant The preaching of the law and the prophets was until John, from that time the gospel of the kingdom is being preached. ...

Already acknowledged, see above statement.

... SDA doctrine must deny the scripture saying the law is not preached anymore. ...

What was Jesus, Paul, Peter, James and John quoting from, especially when they said, "It is written", "as it is written", "again", "in the Psalms", "written in the second psalm", "saying in David", "Moses... he wrote", "For it is written in the law of Moses", "Esaias", "Esaias also crieth concerning Israel", "by the mouth of the prophet", etc, etc.

Luke 4:17 KJB - And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

Luke 24:44 KJB - And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Matthew 26:56 KJB - But all this was done, that the scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled. Then all the disciples forsook him, and fled.

Acts 13:40 KJB - Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets;

Acts 15:15 KJB - And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,

2 Peter 3:2 KJB - That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:​

etc, etc.

They believe that the law is part of the gospel.

The Gospel, is Jesus Christ, to whom all "the law and the prophets" [yea, and in the psalms also] speak of. Notice:

Matthew 17:5 KJB - While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.​

Who inspired Moses and Elijah [the prophets]? Whose word then was it? Again, listen to Jesus:

Luke 16:29 KJB - Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

Luke 16:31 KJB - And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
​

Notice Paul:

Acts 24:14 KJB - But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:​

 

[The7thColporteur]

...No inheritance with Israel seems no big deal in this light.

Not sure I understood your point, please clarify. The Levites had no earthly inheritance, for the LORD was their inheritance.

Numbers 18:20 KJB - And the LORD spake unto Aaron, Thou shalt have no inheritance in their land, neither shalt thou have any part among them: I am thy part and thine inheritance among the children of Israel.

Deuteronomy 10:9 KJB - Wherefore Levi hath no part nor inheritance with his brethren; the LORD is his inheritance, according as the LORD thy God promised him.​

 

[ralliann]

Not sure I understood your point, please clarify. The Levites had no earthly inheritance, for the LORD was their inheritance.

They had no earthly inheritance, as is the case with Abraham.
Acts 7:2 And he said, Men, brethren, and fathers, hearken; The God of glory appeared unto our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Charran,
3 And said unto him, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and come into the land which I shall shew thee.
4 Then came he out of the land of the Chaldaeans, and dwelt in Charran: and from thence, when his father was dead, he removed him into this land, wherein ye now dwell.
5 And he gave him none inheritance in it, no, not so much as to set his foot on: yet he promised that he would give it to him for a possession, and to his seed after him, when as yet he had no child.
6 And God spake on this wise, That his seed should sojourn in a strange land; and that they should bring them into bondage, and entreat them evil four hundred years.
7 And the nation to whom they shall be in bondage will I judge, said God: and after that shall they come forth, and serve me in this place.

Abraham was not given an inheritance in the earthly worldly kingdom, his seed of the fourth generation was.
Abraham was not promised the land himself until Genesis 17. There were two covenants made with Abraham. the first in Genesis 14, concerning the fourth generation is what is spoken of above.
Gal 4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

​

 

[Cribstyl]

What then does the expression mean? Simply this: The law and the prophets prophesied, or were preached, Luke, until John, but since then the kingdom of God is preached. That is, all that the people had, up to the time of John, was the law and the prophets, but since then they have had the preaching of the kingdom of God, in addition to the law and prophets. {April 26, 1864 JWe, ARSH 170.32} ..." - Advent Review and Sabbath Herald; April 26, 1864

SDA doctrine have no choice but to contradict what is written.

NIV The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the good news of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing their way into it.

The scripture is clear. It's not saying since then the Kingdom of God in addition to the law is preached.

It's not saying that the law and the prophets ends or does mot exist, should not be read or other straw arguments.

What happened UNTIL John? What happen after John?

Man shall live by every word that procedeth out of the mouth of God.

 

[The7thColporteur]

...Man shall live by every word that procedeth out of the mouth of God.

Where did the Ten Commandments come out from?

 

[listed]

*Ahem*. I asked you first by what you meant when you said "the rules".

Galatians 3 - shows New Covenant Gospel is before Sinai

Ahem what are the rules? I don't care what you say they are. Do you really need the word "rules" defined? What did God change? You will say nothing.

Ah so you think the New Covenant existed before the Old Covenant? Interesting concept considering my concept of "new" and "old." The Gospel preached to Abraham is a promise and isn't the "new covenant." The Gospel refers to the provision of redemption contained in and actuated by the "New Covenant" which didn't exist prior to Jesus.

 

[listed]

How about this verse? The law prophesied....or the prophetic utterances given in Moses law....
Mt 11:13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
De 31:21 And it shall come to pass, when many evils and troubles are befallen them, that this song shall testify against them as a witness; for it shall not be forgotten out of the mouths of their seed: for I know their imagination which they go about, even now, before I have brought them into the land which I sware.
De 28:36 The LORD shall bring thee, and thy king which thou shalt set over thee, unto a nation which neither thou nor thy fathers have known; and there shalt thou serve other gods, wood and stone.

Matthew 11:13 has been considered by me. It's true. It's quite different from Luke 16:16.

 

[listed]

On a basic level, yes. We already know this and teach this. For instance:

"... 3. The expression, "The law and the prophets prophesied until John," does not teach that the law there ceased. Luke says, The law and the prophets were [were preached] until John; since that time the kingdom of God is preached, etc. Luke xvi, 16. But if this shows, as Eld. P. claims, that the law there ceased, it shows just as much that the prophets also ceased. It the law "there, in the time of John, deceased," the prophets then and there deceased also; and to be consistent he must abandon his teaching relative to the book of Daniel, and every other Old Testament prophet. {April 26, 1864 JWe, ARSH 170.31}

What then does the expression mean? Simply this: The law and the prophets prophesied, or were preached, Luke, until John, but since then the kingdom of God is preached. That is, all that the people had, up to the time of John, was the law and the prophets, but since then they have had the preaching of the kingdom of God, in addition to the law and prophets. {April 26, 1864 JWe, ARSH 170.32} ..." - Advent Review and Sabbath Herald; April 26, 1864​

Already acknowledged, see above statement.

The above quote marries 2 passages. The Luke 16 passage says the law became in effective in relation to jurisdiction because a new thing was being preached. That doesn't mean the old regulation (the law) can't be quoted. We aren't talking about annihilation of the law as has been repeatedly implied. We fully acknowledge the law exists. It isn't applicable to the Christian as 1 Timothy 1:9 says.

What was Jesus, Paul, Peter, James and John quoting from, especially when they said, "It is written", "as it is written", "again", "in the Psalms", "written in the second psalm", "saying in David", "Moses... he wrote", "For it is written in the law of Moses", "Esaias", "Esaias also crieth concerning Israel", "by the mouth of the prophet", etc, etc.

Luke 4:17 KJB - And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

Luke 24:44 KJB - And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Matthew 26:56 KJB - But all this was done, that the scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled. Then all the disciples forsook him, and fled.

Acts 13:40 KJB - Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets;

Acts 15:15 KJB - And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,

2 Peter 3:2 KJB - That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:​

etc, etc.

The Gospel, is Jesus Christ, to whom all "the law and the prophets" [yea, and in the psalms also] speak of. Notice:

Matthew 17:5 KJB - While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.​

Who inspired Moses and Elijah [the prophets]? Whose word then was it? Again, listen to Jesus:

Luke 16:29 KJB - Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

Luke 16:31 KJB - And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
​

Notice Paul:

Acts 24:14 KJB - But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:​

The evidence of the posts here at CF shows a group of people don't hear or believe Moses. It's also evidenced the same group of People don't believe and act on the quoted words of Jesus in the Gospels.

 

[listed]

Where did the Ten Commandments come out from?

Where did Jeremiah get his words from in chapter 31? Are the words found in Luke 22:20 not the words of God?