Jewish naming of YHWH

gideon123

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"The true pronunciation of the tetragrammaton has been lost, and the modern "Yahweh" is just a scholarly reconstruction of what it might have sounded like"

well said. and as others have said, these strange developments came about because of the traditions of men. If God "was worried" about the name YHWH ... He would never have spoke it to Moses.

Ironically, my modern NIV translation does not write LORD (capital letters) where YHWH appears in the original texts. So during my daily readings, I have no idea where YHWH occurs in the Bible at all.

Much confusion ... that God never intended. IMO.

Blessings!!
 
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Inkfingers

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Ironically, my modern NIV translation does not write LORD (capital letters) where YHWH appears in the original texts. So during my daily readings, I have no idea where YHWH occurs in the Bible at all.

The American Standard Version Bible is a good solution to that; it says Jehovah where YHWH is in the Hebrew.
 
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Grip Docility

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They try to stone him then, openly, so no need to try and hide any future attempt to do so.

But after that point they in effect drop the charge because he preaches for another 10 chapters and the Pharisees don't act.

But as I have already said, this is NOT the subject of this thread and I will not be drawn into it.

All is fair, now.

You acknowledged that they did try to kill him. That’s the important part.

Also,

The Sanhedrin “did” kill Him for claiming to be God. It’s in the final words that they chose to use to convict Him to death.

God has no equal, thus “claiming to be equal to God” is a claim to be God.

Daniel and Psalms were quoted by Christ, then they rent their robes and convicted Him.
 
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Radagast

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Ironically, my modern NIV translation does not write LORD (capital letters) where YHWH appears in the original texts.

That sounds like a mistake. The NIV, like most other modern translations, writes "LORD" in small caps. Every version of the NIV I've looked at does that.

However, when "LORD" gets copied and pasted, it turns into "Lord." Your copy may have been scrambled that way. Is it paper or electronic?
 
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Anand Prabhu Antony

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Oh boy.

Not touching this.

This is frowney face, bad.

Isaiah 14:14
hi brothers and sisters ,please clear this doubt

we should not be gods? that means...we should not be born of GOD?

John 10:34-35
Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods” ’? If he called them ‘gods’ to whom the word of God came—and the scripture cannot be broken.

Brother, scripture cannot be broken.

Psalms 82:6
I have said, “You are gods, and sons of the Most High, all of you.

I seek that through Lord Jesus Christ all people should become gods and worship the Creator alone.

Romans 8:16-17
The Spirit himself bears witness with our own spirits that we are children of God; and if we are children, then we are also heirs, heirs of God and joint-heirs with the Messiah — provided we are suffering with him in order also to be glorified with him.
 
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Shek

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A covenant is a promise.

No..it's not.

List of Jesus Commandments

#6 - Honor God's Law

Matthew 5:17

#8 - Do not commit adultery - the 7th commandment.

Exodus 20:14

#13 - Practice secret disciplines - Essenes

The Essenes practiced ascetism, prayer & meditation, daily immersion, communal living and they owned no money.

#17 - Don't give anything Holy to the unclean.

This one here is instructing a follower not to reveal valuable religious secrets to the unworthy.
Now, as far as I'm aware, there are no religious secrets in Christianity....but there are highly significant secrets in Judaism (and Kabbalah). Jesus was a Jew and he practiced Judaism every day of his life. His early followers were the Essenes, all of which were Jews and proselytes that converted to this way of life.

Matthew 7:6

In all of these additional commands that Jesus issues, the 10 commandments are still in place.

#24 Fear God

Matthew 10:28

#25 Hear God's Voice = Read the Torah

Exodus 20:1

You can read the rest for yourselves, I think that peeps will understand the point.

But the answer to this other issue is that Jesus never spoke of a "New Covenant", which is to say 'out with the old and in with the new'. Eh-eh, never happened. On the contrary, he added to it and made the Lord's commandments more clear. The only place that Jesus ever spoke of "a covenant" was during Passover.

"In the narrative of the Exodus, the Bible tells that God helped the Children of Israel escape from their slavery in Egypt by inflicting ten plagues upon the ancient Egyptians before the Pharaoh would release his Israelite slaves; the tenth and worst of the plagues was the death of the Egyptian first-born.

The Israelites were instructed to mark the doorposts of their homes with the blood of a slaughtered spring lamb and, upon seeing this, the spirit of the Lord knew to pass over the first-born in these homes, hence the English name of the holiday."


Matthew 26:28

Where he tells his followers of his impending doom. But the covenant that he was speaking of was the Ark of the Covenant. During the Exodus from Egypt, God gave his laws to Moses on Sinai and dictated the Torah to him letter-by-letter...which took Moses 40 days and night to record.

Jeremiah 31:31

This is the new covenant that God made with his chosen people by giving them his laws during the Exodus.

Jesus did not teach any other covenant.

John 5:19

Jesus taught Judaism, just like the Father.
 
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Grip Docility

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No..it's not.

List of Jesus Commandments

#6 - Honor God's Law

Matthew 5:17

#8 - Do not commit adultery - the 7th commandment.

Exodus 20:14

#13 - Practice secret disciplines - Essenes

The Essenes practiced ascetism, prayer & meditation, daily immersion, communal living and they owned no money.

#17 - Don't give anything Holy to the unclean.

This one here is instructing a follower not to reveal valuable religious secrets to the unworthy.
Now, as far as I'm aware, there are no religious secrets in Christianity....but there are highly significant secrets in Judaism (and Kabbalah). Jesus was a Jew and he practiced Judaism every day of his life. His early followers were the Essenes, all of which were Jews and proselytes that converted to this way of life.

Matthew 7:6

In all of these additional commands that Jesus issues, the 10 commandments are still in place.

#24 Fear God

Matthew 10:28

#25 Hear God's Voice = Read the Torah

Exodus 20:1

You can read the rest for yourselves, I think that peeps will understand the point.

But the answer to this other issue is that Jesus never spoke of a "New Covenant", which is to say 'out with the old and in with the new'. Eh-eh, never happened. On the contrary, he added to it and made the Lord's commandments more clear. The only place that Jesus ever spoke of "a covenant" was during Passover.

"In the narrative of the Exodus, the Bible tells that God helped the Children of Israel escape from their slavery in Egypt by inflicting ten plagues upon the ancient Egyptians before the Pharaoh would release his Israelite slaves; the tenth and worst of the plagues was the death of the Egyptian first-born.

The Israelites were instructed to mark the doorposts of their homes with the blood of a slaughtered spring lamb and, upon seeing this, the spirit of the Lord knew to pass over the first-born in these homes, hence the English name of the holiday."


Matthew 26:28

Where he tells his followers of his impending doom. But the covenant that he was speaking of was the Ark of the Covenant. During the Exodus from Egypt, God gave his laws to Moses on Sinai and dictated the Torah to him letter-by-letter...which took Moses 40 days and night to record.

Jeremiah 31:31

This is the new covenant that God made with his chosen people by giving them his laws during the Exodus.

Jesus did not teach any other covenant.

John 5:19

Jesus taught Judaism, just like the Father.

Jesus is the King of the Jews.

You erradicate any semblance of what Jesus came to do, when you take this route.

I’m going to assume that you dream of converting all Christ alone followers to the Law.

Allow me to disappoint you, I don’t even want to follow this through, because I’ve done it before and I feel bad for the other person, every time.

I’m going to express a Major Disagree to you and I’m also going to make it clear that the concrete is currently dried for you.

That crumbling lump of sand is weighing you down, but you don’t know what to do without it.

You are building your house on sand.
 
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Grip Docility

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No..it's not.

List of Jesus Commandments

#6 - Honor God's Law

Matthew 5:17

#8 - Do not commit adultery - the 7th commandment.

Exodus 20:14

#13 - Practice secret disciplines - Essenes

The Essenes practiced ascetism, prayer & meditation, daily immersion, communal living and they owned no money.

#17 - Don't give anything Holy to the unclean.

This one here is instructing a follower not to reveal valuable religious secrets to the unworthy.
Now, as far as I'm aware, there are no religious secrets in Christianity....but there are highly significant secrets in Judaism (and Kabbalah). Jesus was a Jew and he practiced Judaism every day of his life. His early followers were the Essenes, all of which were Jews and proselytes that converted to this way of life.

Matthew 7:6

In all of these additional commands that Jesus issues, the 10 commandments are still in place.

#24 Fear God

Matthew 10:28

#25 Hear God's Voice = Read the Torah

Exodus 20:1

You can read the rest for yourselves, I think that peeps will understand the point.

But the answer to this other issue is that Jesus never spoke of a "New Covenant", which is to say 'out with the old and in with the new'. Eh-eh, never happened. On the contrary, he added to it and made the Lord's commandments more clear. The only place that Jesus ever spoke of "a covenant" was during Passover.

"In the narrative of the Exodus, the Bible tells that God helped the Children of Israel escape from their slavery in Egypt by inflicting ten plagues upon the ancient Egyptians before the Pharaoh would release his Israelite slaves; the tenth and worst of the plagues was the death of the Egyptian first-born.

The Israelites were instructed to mark the doorposts of their homes with the blood of a slaughtered spring lamb and, upon seeing this, the spirit of the Lord knew to pass over the first-born in these homes, hence the English name of the holiday."


Matthew 26:28

Where he tells his followers of his impending doom. But the covenant that he was speaking of was the Ark of the Covenant. During the Exodus from Egypt, God gave his laws to Moses on Sinai and dictated the Torah to him letter-by-letter...which took Moses 40 days and night to record.

Jeremiah 31:31

This is the new covenant that God made with his chosen people by giving them his laws during the Exodus.

Jesus did not teach any other covenant.

John 5:19

Jesus taught Judaism, just like the Father.

Also, anyone who doesn’t understand that the actual Hebrew and Greek point to the word Promise isn’t seriously studying to find what’s being said, but to “justify themselves”.

1285. berith
Strong's Concordance
berith: a covenant
Original Word: בְּרִית
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: berith
Phonetic Spelling: (ber-eeth')
Short Definition: covenant
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from an unused word
Definition
a covenant
NASB Translation
allied (1), allies* (1), covenant (275), covenants (1), El-berith* (1), league (2), treaty (4).
 
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Grip Docility

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No..it's not.

List of Jesus Commandments

#6 - Honor God's Law

Matthew 5:17

#8 - Do not commit adultery - the 7th commandment.

Exodus 20:14

#13 - Practice secret disciplines - Essenes

The Essenes practiced ascetism, prayer & meditation, daily immersion, communal living and they owned no money.

#17 - Don't give anything Holy to the unclean.

This one here is instructing a follower not to reveal valuable religious secrets to the unworthy.
Now, as far as I'm aware, there are no religious secrets in Christianity....but there are highly significant secrets in Judaism (and Kabbalah). Jesus was a Jew and he practiced Judaism every day of his life. His early followers were the Essenes, all of which were Jews and proselytes that converted to this way of life.

Matthew 7:6

In all of these additional commands that Jesus issues, the 10 commandments are still in place.

#24 Fear God

Matthew 10:28

#25 Hear God's Voice = Read the Torah

Exodus 20:1

You can read the rest for yourselves, I think that peeps will understand the point.

But the answer to this other issue is that Jesus never spoke of a "New Covenant", which is to say 'out with the old and in with the new'. Eh-eh, never happened. On the contrary, he added to it and made the Lord's commandments more clear. The only place that Jesus ever spoke of "a covenant" was during Passover.

"In the narrative of the Exodus, the Bible tells that God helped the Children of Israel escape from their slavery in Egypt by inflicting ten plagues upon the ancient Egyptians before the Pharaoh would release his Israelite slaves; the tenth and worst of the plagues was the death of the Egyptian first-born.

The Israelites were instructed to mark the doorposts of their homes with the blood of a slaughtered spring lamb and, upon seeing this, the spirit of the Lord knew to pass over the first-born in these homes, hence the English name of the holiday."


Matthew 26:28

Where he tells his followers of his impending doom. But the covenant that he was speaking of was the Ark of the Covenant. During the Exodus from Egypt, God gave his laws to Moses on Sinai and dictated the Torah to him letter-by-letter...which took Moses 40 days and night to record.

Jeremiah 31:31

This is the new covenant that God made with his chosen people by giving them his laws during the Exodus.

Jesus did not teach any other covenant.

John 5:19

Jesus taught Judaism, just like the Father.

If you are Jewish or a Noahide type Messianic Jew, I would simply tell you to go in peace, but if you are a Judaizing Christian, we are diametrically opposed.
 
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Grip Docility

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Disagree all you want, can't deny what Jesus taught.

You’re darn right about that. I can’t disagree with nor deny “what Jesus taught”.

I give you permission to disagree with me, all you want, too. :D
 
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Anand Prabhu Antony

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Brother, you seem Humble in Christ, but opening the “god” door of we are “gods” always ends up destroying good doctrine.

I sincerely state this with much experience in discussing that very matter.

This is why I am so strong on this particular matter.

You are blessed with FreeWill and God is your teacher (1 John 2:27), Not me, but I say what I say in all goodwill and painful experience.

To be blunt, we make lousy gods and much better children of God.

All Love in our Lord, GOD and Savior, Jesus Christ, to you.

We are “in the Son”, and the Head of the Son is the Father.

He is the Father’s Body, and we are the Son’s Body.

That is the most clearly I can convey the matter, for now.

If your humility is indeed need sincere, I sincerely apologize for not seeing it sooner. That is what is at stake. Your humility. I assure of that. Hold to adoption and cast “godship” away. Throw the crown at His feet. ;)

I believe that I am not worthy to untie the strap of Lord Jesus Christ's sandal.. (Ref: John 1:27).

But, the purpose of our Lord Jesus Christ is to make us born of GOD. The one who is born of the GOD through the faith in the Lord Jesus becomes a god.

John 4:24
Jesus said, "GOD is Spirit".

And in John 3:6, Lord says,
"What is born of the flesh is flesh, and what is born of the Spirit(GOD) is spirit(god)".

He(Jesus) wants us to become gods, and join with the Almighty's union.

Jesus said in John 10:30,
"The Father and I are one.”

but He did not stop with the above verse... continue read John 17:21
"they all may be one, just as you, Father, are in me and I am in you, that they also may be in US".

what is the purpose of Jesus saying "US" in the above verse?
This "US" is The Trinity. The Trinity is not co-equal, nor co-eternal, but triune in Union as one family with GOD through Lord Jesus Christ receiving the Spirit of the Father (Holy Spirit).

1 Corinthians 3:23
"you(We) are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s"

1 Corinthians 11:3
"..I want you to know that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of the woman, and the head of Christ is God"

1 Corinthians 15:27
"..the Son himself will be subjected to the one[Father] who subjected all things to him, in order that God may be all in all.."

Ephesians 4:6
"..one God and Father of all, who is over all, and through all, and in all".

What I am saying is Lord Jesus Christ is greater than us, and Father is greater than Christ and all. So, Father, the only True GOD through Christ becomes all in all. If we do not become gods then we cannot become union with The Almighty one day. What is born of the flesh is flesh. But what is born of the Spirit is spirit. If we are born of GOD through Jesus Christ means we are gods then.

Psalms 82:6
“You are gods, and sons of the Most High, all of you".
 
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Grip Docility

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I believe that I am not worthy to untie the strap of Lord Jesus Christ's sandal.. (Ref: John 1:27).

But, the purpose of our Lord Jesus Christ is to make us born of GOD. The one who is born of the GOD through the faith in the Lord Jesus becomes a god.

John 4:24
Jesus said, "GOD is Spirit".

And in John 3:6, Lord says,
"What is born of the flesh is flesh, and what is born of the Spirit(GOD) is spirit(god)".

He(Jesus) wants us to become gods, and join with the Almighty's union.

Jesus said in John 10:30,
"The Father and I are one.”

but He did not stop with the above verse... continue read John 17:21
"they all may be one, just as you, Father, are in me and I am in you, that they also may be in US".

what is the purpose of Jesus saying "US" in the above verse?
This "US" is The Trinity. The Trinity is not co-equal, nor co-eternal, but triune in Union as one family with GOD through Lord Jesus Christ receiving the Spirit of the Father (Holy Spirit).

1 Corinthians 3:23
"you(We) are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s"

1 Corinthians 11:3
"..I want you to know that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of the woman, and the head of Christ is God"

1 Corinthians 15:27
"..the Son himself will be subjected to the one[Father] who subjected all things to him, in order that God may be all in all.."

Ephesians 4:6
"..one God and Father of all, who is over all, and through all, and in all".

What I am saying is Lord Jesus Christ is greater than us, and Father is greater than Christ and all. So, Father, the only True GOD through Christ becomes all in all. If we do not become gods then we cannot become union with The Almighty one days. What is born of the flesh is flesh. But what is born of the Spirit is spirit. If we are born of GOD through Jesus Christ means we are gods then.

Psalms 82:6
“You are gods, and sons of the Most High, all of you".

I Love your scripture usage, but firmly disagree with your use of “god’s”.

I have spoken my piece. Peace to you, Brother in Him.

For what’s its worth, you are the most eloquent and humble of all that I have spoken with and read, that hold your doctrine.
 
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Anand Prabhu Antony

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I Love your scripture usage, but firmly disagree with your use of “god’s”.

I have spoken my piece. Peace to you, Brother in Him.

For what’s its worth, you are the most eloquent and humble of all that I have spoken with and read, that hold your doctrine.
May peace, grace and mercy of the Holy Father be showered upon you through our Lord Jesus Christ. Bless you.
 
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Grip Docility

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They try to stone him then, openly, so no need to try and hide any future attempt to do so.

But after that point they in effect drop the charge because he preaches for another 10 chapters and the Pharisees don't act.

But as I have already said, this is NOT the subject of this thread and I will not be drawn into it.

I agree that it is not the subject of this thread, but it spun off of @Shek ’s dialogue about what Jesus saying “I Am” meant and you affirmed his train of thought without agreeing. Along that line, it was related to the Name of God and the term “I Am”.

I was curious as to why his point was even mildly considerable, when it is counter to exegetical study and contextual, cross refrenced understanding.

I apologize for derailing the thread, by pursuing this. I simply wasn’t following the logic and was trying to see what was up.
 
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Grip Docility

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Original OP’s Opening Post (@Inkfingers is the OP)

“Why is it that the Jews do not use YHWH?

They claim it is too sacred.

But they are told to "proclaim his name" in Isaiah 12:4 and to call upon it in Psalms 105:1, so who came up with the idea of not saying Yahweh's name? It cannot have come from YHWH himself, as He told them to proclaim his name and I am unaware of any point in the Bible where the Jews are told (by Yahweh) to refer to Yahweh as "Adonai".

So what is going on here, and more importantly WHO thought they could countermand Yahweh himself?”
 
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