SHADOW LAWS OF THE OLD COVENANT FULFILLED IN THE NEW? COL 2

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bugkiller

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I have seen some say decreasing order, yearly, monthly, weekly, for instance Bacchiocci, "Dale" as you affectionately call him, etc.

However, I think both that and the proposal that the sabbaths here refer only to the yearly is incorrect.

The Feasts refer to the three pilgrim feasts. This becomes more apparent in the OT listings.

The term moed is used to refer to all the appointed times. The KJB renders this "feasts" in Lev. 23:2

23:1 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the Lord, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.

4150. moed
Strong's Concordance
moed: appointed time, place, or meeting
Original Word: מוֹעֵד
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine


However, within the description of the various appointed times or convocations the feasts are distinguished from the sabbaths.


2282. Chag
Strong's Concordance
chag: a festival gathering, feast, pilgrim feast

So for instance, the term chag is used in the following, rendered "feast":


Lev. 23:5 In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the Lord's passover.
6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the Lord: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.

34 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, The fifteenth day of this seventh month shall be the feast of tabernacles for seven days unto the Lord.


Meanwhile, the Trumpets and Day of Atonement are specifically said to be sabbaths:

24 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation.


32 It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath.


We again see Chag here rendered "feast days".

Hosea 2:11 I will also cause all her mirth to cease, her feast days, her new moons, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts.


All of her solemn feasts is "moed". So again we see that all the appointed times are "moed" but only the pilgrim feasts are designated as chag.

In Numbers 28-29 we again see the same pattern. Chag is used to describe the pilgrim feasts:

17 And in the fifteenth day of this month is the feast: seven days shall unleavened bread be eaten.


12 And on the fifteenth day of the seventh month ye shall have an holy convocation; ye shall do no servile work, and ye shall keep a feast unto the Lord seven days:


Also, chag is the word used in all of the following. You obviously referenced most of these already in your posts above. But consistently the three pilgrimage feasts are designated as chag, while the others are not.

Exodus 23:16 Three times thou shalt keep a feast unto me in the year.


Exodus 23:16 And the feast of harvest, the firstfruits of thy labours, which thou hast sown in the field: and the feast of ingathering, which is in the end of the year, when thou hast gathered in thy labours out of the field.


Deut 16:13 Thou shalt observe the feast of tabernacles seven days, after that thou hast gathered in thy corn and thy wine:

Deut 16:16 Three times in a year shall all thy males appear before the LORD thy God in the place which he shall choose; in the feast of unleavened bread, and in the feast of weeks, and in the feast of tabernacles: and they shall not appear before the LORD empty:


This last one is instructive in that it breaks down the various appointed times, in to the various types.

2 Chronicles 8:13 Even after a certain rate every day, offering according to the commandment of Moses, on the sabbaths, and on the new moons, and on the solemn feasts, three times in the year, [even] in the feast of unleavened bread, and in the feast of weeks, and in the feast of tabernacles



It references the sabbaths, new moons, and the feasts (again chag), which it designates as the three pilgrim feasts. The Day of Atonement and Trumpets are specifically said to be Sabbaths in Lev. 23 as noted. So since the feasts here are spelled out to be the three pilgrim feasts, then the others would fall under sabbaths.

They are all moed, appointed times, but not all are chag (feasts).

And we see this again in Ezekiel 45. Feasts in vs. 17 is chag. Then it lists the new moons, sabbaths, and summarizes "all the solemnities" which is moed.

So all of them are moed, or appointed times, but only the pilgrim feasts are chag.

17 And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.


The weekly sabbath is included in Lev. 23 in the moed:

23:1 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,


2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts (moed) of the Lord, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.

3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings.

It is also referenced with its offerings in Numbers 28, and 29:

9 And on the sabbath day two lambs of the first year without spot, and two tenth deals of flour for a meat offering, mingled with oil, and the drink offering thereof:


10 This is the burnt offering of every sabbath, beside the continual burnt offering, and his drink offering.

And therefore it is also referencing it in Ezekiel 45 and Col. 2.

By the way, if you are asserting Col references the 7 year sabbaths of the land, etc. you would need to demonstrate that Numbers 28, 29, Ezekiel 45, etc. reference them.

It makes more sense to then understand it as

feasts - chag, pilgrimage feasts, the three
new moon
sabbaths- weekly and day of atonement, trumpets, etc.
Great post. Nice to see you.

bugkiller
 
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tall73

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Great post. Nice to see you.

bugkiller

Yeah, been a while, good to see you are still around here.

I only stop by to check things out occasionally and for some reason this conversation caught my eye.
 
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bugkiller

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What does it mean to be "UNDER THE LAW"?

It is true you are not "UNDER THE LAW" if you have REPENTED, CONFESSED, FORSAKEN your SINS and BELIEVE God's promise of FORGIVENESS (Prov 28:13; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 1 John 1:9) but if you are still practicing KNOWN UNREPETNANT SIN then you are still "UNDER THE LAW" and guilty of SIN (breaking God's LAW).

ROMANS 3:19-23
19,
Now we know that what things soever the law said, it said to them who are UNDER THE LAW: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20,
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21,
But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22,
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ to all and on all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23, For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God

God's LAW (10 Commandments) is to give us a KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is and lead us to JESUS (Gal 3:24-25) that we might be justified by FAITH. Not being "UNDER THE LAW" means your no longer under the CONDEMNATION of the LAW because you have been FOGIVEN for your SINS.

IF you are still CONTINUING in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN you do not KNOW GOD because you have rejected his GIFT of SALVATION through his Son and you are still in your SINS.

Romans 2:12
For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law
: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

....................

CONCLUSION: To be "UNDER THE LAW" according to God's WORD means to be guilty before God of SIN and breaking God's LAW. Sin is the problem not God's LAW. As Paul says the commandment is HOLY, Just and Good (ROMANS 7:12)
No it does not. Paul says "not under the law" two verses in a row (Rom 6:14, 15). Then in chap 7 says the law is dead and we are now delivered from the law. Paul says the same in Gal 5:18 and even to throw out the law in Gal 4:30. So you decide if it means obligation in anyway to the law for the Christian.

As an ex truck driver "being under" always meant obligated to. You promote obligation to the law demanding the 4th be kept.

bugkiller
 
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bugkiller

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It sounds as though extra offerings were required on the weekly as well.

And it would seem that col. 2 refers to then

-Feasts (three pilgrim feasts)
-New moon
-Sabbaths, including Day of Atonement, trumpets, and weekly sabbath.
I think you are correct because this is a list.

bugkiller
 
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bugkiller

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Several reasons, context was the first. Colossians 2, Ephesians 2 and Hebrews 9-10 another. Mediation another [God directly, versus through Moses]. Location [Stone, versus parchment/lambskin]. Author [God directly vs through Moses hand]. Pre vs post sin of mankind. Weekly, vs yearly [or of years]. God's vs the peoples. and so on.

Colossians 2, utilizes Ezekiel 45:17 KJB, as already seen here:

"... [5] In verse 16 there is a list of "ordinances" that are found given in that order [and other], in the Old Testament, what are they referring to there, and where is Paul quoting from?

Colossians 2:16 KJB Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]:
Paul is quoting from (you will want to look up that word “solemnities”):

Ezekiel 45:17 KJB And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel. ..." - COL 2:14-17 The REAL truth from God's Word
First of all, can we all agree that Colossians 2:16 KJB, when it speaks of "in meat, or in drink" is not referring to the Genesis/Levitical/Deuteronomic, etc. dietary and health laws in regards clean/unclean, but is instead a direct reference to "meat offerings" and "drink offerings", and that anyone who says otherwise, after being shown the connection, is in error on that point?
I disagree based on Acts 15 and Paul's repeated dealing with false brethren in some of his letters as well as the historical record of Acts shows us. Remember the issue was keeping the law of Moses in v 5.

I like addressing one item at a time.

bugkiller
 
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bugkiller

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The language is the same. The "ordinances" in Colossians 2 deals with "shadows", such as the daily "meat and drink" offerings of a worldly sanctuary and carnal ordinances, the seasonal "feast days", the monthly "new moons", and the year based "sabbaths", in the singular, every 7 and 50th years, as Paul is citing Psalms 98:1-3; and Ezekiel 45:17 KJB with other texts.

Ordinances are not religious rites. Ordinances are laws.

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bugkiller

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The Sabbath of the LORD thy God is always called "my [as in God's] sabbaths" [or "the sabbath day", or "the sabbath of the LORD"] and is eternal, and the others in Leviticus 23:4 onward are called "your [the peoples] sabbaths" [Leviticus 26:35 KJB] and "her sabbaths" [Leviticus 26:34,43; 2 Chronicles 36:21; Lamentations 1:7; Hosea 2:11 KJB] which are "beside [given in addition to] the sabbaths of the LORD" [Leviticus 23:38 KJB].​
The sabbath is also spoken of as Israel's sabbath in Hos 2.

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bugkiller

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The Sabbath of the LORD thy God is always called "my [as in God's] sabbaths" [or "the sabbath day", or "the sabbath of the LORD"] and is eternal, and the others in Leviticus 23:4 onward are called "your [the peoples] sabbaths" [Leviticus 26:35 KJB] and "her sabbaths" [Leviticus 26:34,43; 2 Chronicles 36:21; Lamentations 1:7; Hosea 2:11 KJB] which are "beside [given in addition to] the sabbaths of the LORD" [Leviticus 23:38 KJB].

The sabbath is given specifically to Israel as Ex 31:13 and 17 illustrate.

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The7thColporteur

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I have seen some say decreasing order, yearly, monthly, weekly, for instance Bacchiocci, "Dale" as you affectionately call him, etc....
Bacchiocci??? The man who got a degree from the [Jesuit] Gregorian University at Rome??? [but I already know what you have said on it - Beware, Jesuit Sam Bacchiocchi!]

"... • The first (and apparently only) admission of a non-Catholic in the 422-year history (1551-1973) of the Pontifical Gregorian University. For this purpose, the special approval of the highest levels in the Jesuit Order would have to grant its approval. For such a remarkable “first” to occur, the paperwork would also have to pass across the desks of top echelons in the Vatican.

• The young Adventist would receive an in-depth five (not four) year course of Jesuit instruction. All the intricacies of the Order, needed in order to carry out his future assignments, would be laid open before him.

• In order to make him a Catholic-trained “specialist in early Sabbath-Sunday history,” it would be arranged that the young man would present his doctoral thesis on who changed the Bible Sabbath to Sunday and when it occurred. This would generate favorable excitement throughout the Adventist denomination.

• Unlike most students, he would be honored with the gift of a gold medal, by the reigning pope, for his “outstanding scholarship.”

• For the first time in its entire history, the Pontifical Gregorian University would publish a book by a Protestant.

• The book would receive the Imprimatur of Rome (“Imprimatur: Romae, die 16 Iuniit 1975, R.P. Hervé Carrier, S.I., Rector Universitatis. Con approvazione del Vacariato di Roma, in data 17 giugno 1975”). “Imprimatur” means that everything within the book contains orthodox Roman Catholic doctrine and is safe for a Catholic to read.

• The book received a two-page preface by Vincenzo Monachino, S.J., Chairman of the Church History Department, Pontifical Gregorian University. More on what Monachino said in the preface, below.

Samuele Bacchiocchi is the first and only Seventh-day Adventist to personally receive not only a gold medal from the pope, a complete training in the Jesuit headquarter’s training school, but also a Jesuit imprimatur (meaning accurate, doctrinally approved, and safe for Catholic readers). ..." - http://omega77.tripod.com/bacc1vf.htm

The same man who denied, in that same literature [Sabbath to Sunday], the SDA Bible Commentary, which is filled with the SoP/ToJ, which immediately disqualifies him [Isaiah 8:20 KJB], and not only so, also denied other things, such as the 666 as belonging to VICARIVS FILII DEI, etc, and numerous other positions??? That Bacchiocci??? - Samuele Bacchiocchi: Which "Sabbath" Does He Truly Support?

http://www.sdadefend.com/MINDEX-B/Bacch.pdf

When I came into the Seventh-day Adventist faith I was naive about such things, but now I am wiser, by the grace of God.

However, that "Bacchiocci" didn't start with the proper order in the text, which is to say the daily meat and drink offerings, which throws off the claim of "Bacchiocci", "Dale", yourself and any other that makes such a similar claim:

meat and drink - of days, daily
feast days - of seasons, seasonal
new moons - of months, monthly
sabbath days - of years, yearly, 7 years, 50 years​

It's easy to just pick and choose what one wants to get to a conclusion they desire, but that is no evidence of Bible [KJB] study.

It is already established from Numbers 28:9-10 KJB, that the meat and drink offerings were "daily" [to which texts yourself brought attention to]:

Numbers 28:1 KJB - And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

Numbers 28:2 KJB - Command the children of Israel, and say unto them, My offering, and my bread for my sacrifices made by fire, for a sweet savour unto me, shall ye observe to offer unto me in their due season.

Numbers 28:3 KJB - And thou shalt say unto them, This is the offering made by fire which ye shall offer unto the LORD; two lambs of the first year without spot day by day, for a continual burnt offering.

Numbers 28:4 KJB - The one lamb shalt thou offer in the morning, and the other lamb shalt thou offer at even;

Numbers 28:5 KJB - And a tenth part of an ephah of flour for a meat offering, mingled with the fourth part of an hin of beaten oil.

Numbers 28:6 KJB - It is a continual burnt offering, which was ordained in mount Sinai for a sweet savour, a sacrifice made by fire unto the LORD.

Numbers 28:7 KJB - And the drink offering thereof shall be the fourth part of an hin for the one lamb: in the holy place shalt thou cause the strong wine to be poured unto the LORD for a drink offering.

Numbers 28:8 KJB - And the other lamb shalt thou offer at even: as the meat offering of the morning, and as the drink offering thereof, thou shalt offer it, a sacrifice made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the LORD.
Do you acknowledge that the "in meat, or in drink" offerings are thus day by day [even evening and morning] in Numbers 28:9-10 and Colossians 2:16? There is no sense in starting in the middle, but is proper to start at the beginning of the list, now isn't it?
 
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bugkiller

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Ezekiel 45:21 KJB would demonstrate one of the three seasonal feasts in which the males had to come to Jerusalem:
"... [2.] "or in respect of an holyday" holy [feast] day; based upon the seasons, "seasonal"]. The word in the Greek for "holyday" is εορτης and means "a feast or festival" [Strong's Concordance]. These were "seasonal".
Is the sabbath a holy day?

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The sabbath is given specifically to Israel as Ex 31:13 and 17 illustrate.

bugkiller[
I agree. Jesus is the real Israel, the True Man, the True Adam [Matthew 2:13-15; Hebrews 2:9-13; John 16:13; Revelation 3:21; 1 Corinthians 15:46; Romans 9:6-8; Galatians 6:16; Hebrews 13:10 KJB], His disciples [Matthew 12:46-50; Mark 14:14; Luke 14:26,27,33, 22:11; John 8:31, 13:35, 15:8] are His children [Isaiah 8:8-20, 56:1,8; Luke 10:16; Isaiah 56:2-7; Romans 9:6-8 KJB] -

Matthew 5:18 KJB - For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.​

[Jesus is Israel part 1] - COL 2:14-17 The REAL truth from God's Word

[Jesus is Israel part 2] - COL 2:14-17 The REAL truth from God's Word

[Jesus is Israel part 3] - COL 2:14-17 The REAL truth from God's Word

[Jesus is Israel part 4] - COL 2:14-17 The REAL truth from God's Word

[Jesus is Israel part 5] - COL 2:14-17 The REAL truth from God's Word
 
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bugkiller

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Given the words used, and the context, and the connection to Numbers 28-29 and Ezekiel 45, etc. I would say it is most likely to refer to food and drink offerings, yes.

Also, there was not much on unclean drinks in any case, though I have seen some arguments.

I have also seen arguments for this relating to fasting.

But I do not at this time find those convincing compared to the food and drink offering arguments.
I would say no because gentiles generally did not eat kosher as required by the law.

Again this Issue is the Judaizers.

bugkiller
 
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bugkiller

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I agree. Jesus is the real Israel, the True Man, the True Adam [Matthew 2:13-15; Hebrews 2:9-13; John 16:13; Revelation 3:21; 1 Corinthians 15:46; Romans 9:6-8; Galatians 6:16; Hebrews 13:10 KJB], His disciples [Matthew 12:46-50; Mark 14:14; Luke 14:26,27,33, 22:11; John 8:31, 13:35, 15:8] are His children [Isaiah 8:8-20, 56:1,8; Luke 10:16; Isaiah 56:2-7; Romans 9:6-8 KJB] -
Where did I say Jesus is the real Israel?

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tall73

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Bacchiocci??? The man who got a degree from the [Jesuit] Gregorian University at Rome??? [but I already know what you have said on it - Beware, Jesuit Sam Bacchiocchi!]

"... • The first (and apparently only) admission of a non-Catholic in the 422-year history (1551-1973) of the Pontifical Gregorian University. For this purpose, the special approval of the highest levels in the Jesuit Order would have to grant its approval. For such a remarkable “first” to occur, the paperwork would also have to pass across the desks of top echelons in the Vatican.

• The young Adventist would receive an in-depth five (not four) year course of Jesuit instruction. All the intricacies of the Order, needed in order to carry out his future assignments, would be laid open before him.

• In order to make him a Catholic-trained “specialist in early Sabbath-Sunday history,” it would be arranged that the young man would present his doctoral thesis on who changed the Bible Sabbath to Sunday and when it occurred. This would generate favorable excitement throughout the Adventist denomination.

• Unlike most students, he would be honored with the gift of a gold medal, by the reigning pope, for his “outstanding scholarship.”

• For the first time in its entire history, the Pontifical Gregorian University would publish a book by a Protestant.

• The book would receive the Imprimatur of Rome (“Imprimatur: Romae, die 16 Iuniit 1975, R.P. Hervé Carrier, S.I., Rector Universitatis. Con approvazione del Vacariato di Roma, in data 17 giugno 1975”). “Imprimatur” means that everything within the book contains orthodox Roman Catholic doctrine and is safe for a Catholic to read.

• The book received a two-page preface by Vincenzo Monachino, S.J., Chairman of the Church History Department, Pontifical Gregorian University. More on what Monachino said in the preface, below.

Samuele Bacchiocchi is the first and only Seventh-day Adventist to personally receive not only a gold medal from the pope, a complete training in the Jesuit headquarter’s training school, but also a Jesuit imprimatur (meaning accurate, doctrinally approved, and safe for Catholic readers). ..." - http://omega77.tripod.com/bacc1vf.htm

The same man who denied, in that same literature [Sabbath to Sunday], the SDA Bible Commentary, which is filled with the SoP/ToJ, which immediately disqualifies him [Isaiah 8:20 KJB], and not only so, also denied other things, such as the 666 as belonging to VICARIVS FILII DEI, etc, and numerous other positions??? That Bacchiocci??? - Samuele Bacchiocchi: Which "Sabbath" Does He Truly Support?

When I came into the Seventh-day Adventist faith I was naive about such things, but now I am wiser, by the grace of God.

However, that "Bacchiocci" didn't start with the proper order in the text, which is to say the daily meat and drink offerings, which throws off the claim of "Bacchiocci", "Dale", yourself and any other that makes such a similar claim:

meat and drink - of days, daily
feast days - of seasons, seasonal
new moons - of months, monthly
sababth days - of years, yearly, 7 years, 50 years​

It's easy to just pick and choose what one wants to get to a conclusion they desire, but that is no evidence of Bible [KJB] study.

It is already established from Numbers 28:9-10 KJB, that the meat and drink offerings were "daily" [to which texts yourself brought attention to]:

Numbers 28:1 KJB - And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

Numbers 28:2 KJB - Command the children of Israel, and say unto them, My offering, and my bread for my sacrifices made by fire, for a sweet savour unto me, shall ye observe to offer unto me in their due season.

Numbers 28:3 KJB - And thou shalt say unto them, This is the offering made by fire which ye shall offer unto the LORD; two lambs of the first year without spot day by day, for a continual burnt offering.

Numbers 28:4 KJB - The one lamb shalt thou offer in the morning, and the other lamb shalt thou offer at even;

Numbers 28:5 KJB - And a tenth part of an ephah of flour for a meat offering, mingled with the fourth part of an hin of beaten oil.

Numbers 28:6 KJB - It is a continual burnt offering, which was ordained in mount Sinai for a sweet savour, a sacrifice made by fire unto the LORD.

Numbers 28:7 KJB - And the drink offering thereof shall be the fourth part of an hin for the one lamb: in the holy place shalt thou cause the strong wine to be poured unto the LORD for a drink offering.

Numbers 28:8 KJB - And the other lamb shalt thou offer at even: as the meat offering of the morning, and as the drink offering thereof, thou shalt offer it, a sacrifice made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the LORD.
Do you acknowledge that the "in meat, or in drink" offerings are thus day by day [even evening and morning] in Numbers 28:9-10 and Colossians 2:16? There is no sense in starting in the middle, but is proper to start at the beginning of the list, now isn't it?

I think you missed the point.

a. I do not agree with Bacchiocchi
b. I do not think it is a progressive list.

It is not broken down by time period. It is broken down by types of appointed times. There were feasts, and there were sabbaths, and there were new moons.

The sabbaths could be the weekly, could be the Day of Atonement, trumpets, etc. as each were said to be sabbaths.

You have not pointed out where the 7 year rest of land, etc. appear in either Lev. 23 or Numbers 28-29.
 
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bugkiller

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Paul is drawing from Ezekiel 45:17 for Colossians 2:16, that is for certain as shown previously - SHADOW LAWS OF THE OLD COVENANT FULFILLED IN THE NEW? COL 2

See also -


No sense in having to redo all of that since it has been placed in a single location for easy access and research.

Colossians 2 speaks directly of "contrary", "ordinances", "shadow", "things to come" none of which apply to the original Creation sabbath of the LORD, the 7th day the sabbath of the LORD, which is eternal, Law, light, memorial [Remember], and "made for the man [Adam]", and thus cannot be 'contrary' to him, and all in him, especially when Isaiah 66:23 KJB mentions it in the New Heavens and Earth], etc.
If the sabbath is not a shadow law, what is Jesus offering in Mat 11:28-30 to sabbath keeping Jews, who God swore would not enter His rest?

bugkiller
 
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tall73

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We would agree that Bacchiocchi disagreed with Adventist theology on a number of points. I referenced him and Ratzlaff to highlight that some think it is a different order, but still think it is about an order. You seem to have read Bacchiocchi and fixated on that, going off on a tangeant!

My point was that chag is used of the pilgrim feasts only, and the sabbaths are distinct from the feasts. It is not about progressive time periods either direction, but about types of appointed times.

Have you ever read Rod Du Preez, or D. J. Conklin's work on the subject? Conklin frequented this sight for a while, so you might be familiar with him.
 
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The7thColporteur

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Is the sabbath a holy day?

bugkiller
Those who do not "remember" to keep the Sabbath of the LORD holy, seem to not "remember" other things as well:

The Sabbath is Holy [Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11 KJB, etc]]. It is indeed the 7th Day, blessed and sanctified. It is an 'holy convocation', Leviticus 23:3 KJB.

Yet it is classified outside of the shadow 'feasts' beginning in Leviticus 23:4, Passover, etc, which clearly states "These are the feasts ..."

The 7th day the sabbath of the LORD is not classified as an "an holy day" or holy feast day, an 'heorte' [G1859] in the GNT TR of Colossians 2:16, see for yourself:

Total KJB Occurrences: 27

feast, 26

Matthew 26:5, 27:15; Mark 14:2, 15:6; Luke 2:41-42 (2), 22:1, 23:17; John 2:23, 4:45 (2), 5:1, 6:4, 7:2,8 (2),10-11 (2),14,37, 11:56, 12:12,20, 13:1,29; Acts 18:21
holyday, 1

Colossians 2:16

see also:

Psalms 42:4 KJB - When I remember these things, I pour out my soul in me: for I had gone with the multitude, I went with them to the house of God, with the voice of joy and praise, with a multitude that kept holyday.
In the so-called LXX*, it begins in Exodus 5:1, with a reference to the Passover, etc:

Exodus 5:1 LXX* - Καὶ μετὰ ταῦτα εἰσῆλθεν Μωυσῆς καὶ Ααρων πρὸς Φαραω καὶ εἶπαν αὐτῷ Τάδε λέγει κύριος ὁ θεὸς Ισραηλ Ἐξαπόστειλον τὸν λαόν μου, ἵνα μοι ἑ?ορτάσωσιν ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ.

Exodus 5:1 KJB - And afterward Moses and Aaron went in, and told Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Let my people go, that they may hold a feast unto me in the wilderness.
Additonally, every reference in the so-called LXX is to these types of 'feast' [holy days], never to the Seventh day the Sabbath of the LORD thy God.

See Heorte [feast, festival] in the so-called LXX - Kata Biblon Wiki Lexicon - ἑορτή - festival (n.)

See Heortazw [celebrate, "keep the feast"] in the so-called LXX - Kata Biblon Wiki Lexicon - ἑορτάζω - to celebrate (v.)

See also:

1 Corinthians 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

1 Corinthians 5:8 GNT TR - ωστε εορταζωμεν μη εν ζυμη παλαια μηδε εν ζυμη κακιας και πονηριας αλλ εν αζυμοις ειλικρινειας και αληθειας
Compare to:

Leviticus 23:39 KJB - Also in the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when ye have gathered in the fruit of the land, ye shall keep a feast unto the LORD seven days: on the first day shall be a sabbath, and on the eighth day shall be a sabbath.

Leviticus 23:39 LXX* - Καὶ ἐν τῇ πεντεκαιδεκάτῃ ἡμέρᾳ τοῦ μηνὸς τοῦ ἑβδόμου τούτου, ὅταν συντελέσητε τὰ γενήματα τῆς γῆς, ἑορτάσετε τῷ κυρίῳ ἑπτὰ ἡμέρας· τῇ ἡμέρᾳ τῇ πρώτῃ ἀνάπαυσις, καὶ τῇ ἡμέρᾳ τῇ ὀγδόῃ ἀνάπαυσις.
Paul, in 1 Corinthians 5:8 is not speaking of keeping the type, but rather the antitype, thus not the shadow but the reality/substance, and thus not with animal sacrifices, but with the sacrifice of a broken and contrite heart, prasie and thanksgiving, as it is in Christ Jesus our Passover, the firstfruits, etc, etc. This was demonstrated here - SHADOW LAWS OF THE OLD COVENANT FULFILLED IN THE NEW? COL 2

The plurality of the yearly, 7th year and 50th year sabbaths in Leviticus 23 & 25, which were differing than the weekly 7th day the Sabbath of the LORD thy God, seen at the beginning before the sin of mankind.

It is. Paul is quoting from Psalms 98:1-3 and Ezekiel 45:17 KJB.

[1] "daily" [in meat, or in drink [offerings]],

[2] "seasonally" [or in respect of an holyday; ie feast days of seasons, Spring, Fall]
[3] "monthly" [of the new moon]
[4] "annually, yearly, and 7th year and 50th Year" ["of the sabbath [days]" [plural]].

COL 2:14-17 The REAL truth from God's Word

thus an increasing order ...
You don't like bugs? God created the bugs for service ... and even uses them today for judgments, as done in Egypt in the past.

You have been answered already. I pray you do not pretend otherwise, as Truth does not change, and is eternal [Psalms 119:142 KJB].
 
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The7thColporteur

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Where did I say Jesus is the real Israel?

bugkiller
You never have [and probably never will at this rate, though I hope, I pray it is not in vain], but I have indeed cited the evidence from the scripture [KJB].
 
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tall73

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You have been answered already..
Except in that quote you start in vs. 4 of Lev. 23 for a reason...because vs. 2 already introduced the topic of feasts or appointed times (moed) and indicated the weekly sabbath. There is no doubt the sabbath had a prominent role in the text, but it is included by vs. 2.

23:1 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the Lord, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.
3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings.
4 These are the feasts of the Lord, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.
 
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