Orthodoxy: Does God really exist?

OzSpen

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I have always been skeptical about it. I just want to believe, I am trying, but can't!
Can anyone just give me real proofs that God exists? Not something personal because I won't believe it. How do I know that the Bible isn't only a fairytale? Are there any scientific proofs that Jesus really came to us? I am open to anything! Please!

Andreea,

What kinds of 'real proofs' will you accept?

What are the unique characteristics/qualities of a writing to be called a fairytale?

As a start, would this kind of verification be found to confirm a fairytale?

2,500 Year Old Jewish Tablets Discovered in Iraq

By Simcha Jacobovici


As we watch horrific images of beheadings from the country formerly called Iraq - a country that is disintegrating into various tribal fiefdoms before our eyes - it is easy to forget that it was once the cradle of civilization. In point of fact, Arabs are latecomers to the area. They are first mentioned in the mid 9th century BCE as a tribal people subjugated by the Assyrians. Way before that, the area was home to the Babylonians. First records indicate that Babylon was established as a city around the 23rd century BCE. It stood about 50 miles south of modern Baghdad. The city is mentioned in the Biblical Book of Genesis (11:9) as the home of the infamous Tower of Babel....

Now for the first time, one hundred and ten, 2,500 year old Babylonian tablets have been discovered in Iraq which provide a glimpse of Jewish life in Babylonian exile. Put simply, the tablets corroborate the Biblical tale. They describe a town called Al-Yahudu i.e., “the village of the Jews”, by the river Chebar, mentioned in Ezekiel 1:1. They also attest to Judaic names such as “Gedalyahu”, “Hanan”, “Dana”, “Shaltiel” and a man with the same name as Israel’s current Prime Minister, “Netanyahu”. The “yahu” ending to these names is called “theophoric”, meaning, they attest to a belief in the God of the Torah, by including part of God’s name in people’s personal names. The tablets also record everyday business transactions and witness to the Jewish return to Jerusalem (Nehemiah 6:15-16), as commemorated in personal names such as “Yashuv Zadik”, meaning, “the righteous shall return [to Zion]”.

This discovery is a remarkable confirmation of the historical reliability of the Biblical text.​

This is not reported in a Christian journal. It's from a secular newspaper online, The Huffington Post, 2015, 2017).

Oz
 
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Micah888

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Those arguments were debunked by Dawkins in a short video.
No one should pay any attention to the *gospel according to Dawkins*.
He is "puzzled by how belief in God could remain among individuals who are sophisticated in science". As though science itself (natural laws) does not prove the existence of God. Even the genius Einstein did not go that far.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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No one should pay any attention to the *gospel according to Dawkins*.
He is "puzzled by how belief in God could remain among individuals who are sophisticated in science". As though science itself (natural laws) does not prove the existence of God. Even the genius Einstein did not go that far.
Dawkins kind was debunked by Jesus 2000 years ago, every day, and every day before then.
God will soon take away all of their delusions.
 
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Colter

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I have always been skeptical about it. I just want to believe, I am trying, but can't!
Can anyone just give me real proofs that God exists? Not something personal because I won't believe it. How do I know that the Bible isn't only a fairytale? Are there any scientific proofs that Jesus really came to us? I am open to anything! Please!
There is no proof, you have to find God as a personal experience.
 
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Anguspure

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Let's suppose that God does not exist. So we're alone in the universe. How do we know what "real" is? For that matter what is proof? What is love, what is good and what is evil?

How would you describe the actions of the school shooters in just the past year? How would you describe that behavior in a world where God does not exist? Amoral? Neither good nor evil? Defined by a norm of society? Defined from one individual to the next and who knows who is right or wrong in the matter? You may decry and call it evil, but here is the difference between a world where God exists and a world where He does not...you CANNOT justify describing it as evil in a world where God does not exist and it would be inconsistent and incompatible to consider it universally and absolutely evil and applicable to all societies.

What I've presented is a moral argument using real situations from recent events. A technical form of the argument from William Lane Craig's site goes like this:

"1. If God does not exist, objective moral values do not exist.

2. Objective moral values do exist.

3. Therefore, God exists."

By objective he means moral values that apply universally to everyone which have their origin outside of the self. Objective and subjective, external and internal are the technical philosophical terms.

Personally I have always found the moral argument appealing and convincing, the alternative denial is not acceptable to me, I refuse to believe that everything is ultimately meaningless and without purpose, including moral values. I refuse to believe such events (exactly as they occurred) as school shootings could be anything but evil, and because evil is a perversion of righteousness, in a backward manner the existence of evil also ends up proving the attribute of goodness and Holiness of God. See my previous posts for more arguments that you might find helpful.

Yes, the whole basis for rational thought itself is destroyed if we consider that God does not exist.
It is theft from a theological epistemology to consider that human reasoning has any rational basis if we fail to aknowledge the existence of God.
 
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Anguspure

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No one should pay any attention to the *gospel according to Dawkins*.
He is "puzzled by how belief in God could remain among individuals who are sophisticated in science". As though science itself (natural laws) does not prove the existence of God. Even the genius Einstein did not go that far.
He also aknowledges design in biology but cannot bring himself to aknowledge the implication what he is seeing.
 
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Anguspure

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There is lots of proof, everywhere. You just have to see it.
...and this is what has been proclaimed by the faithful ones from the beginning.....since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.

We underestimate how strongly our thinking has been high jacked, from an early age, by materialistic ideaology, in western society in particular.

It is a basic intuition of humanity to recognise the spiritual in general and God in particular, that has to be trained out of children by a materialistic narrative.

When we choose to recognise that narrative for the fundamentally self defeating and irrational position that it is, the existence of God very quickly becomes obvious and the evidence for His existence is apparant everywhere.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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@PsychoSarah , welcome to the other side ! (if you visit)
There is lots of proof, everywhere. You just have to see it.
QUOTE="Anguspure, post: 72693932, member: 287386"]...and this is what has been proclaimed by the faithful ones from the beginning.....since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.

We underestimate how strongly our thinking has been high jacked, from an early age, by materialistic ideaology, in western society in particular.

It is a basic intuition of humanity to recognise the spiritual in general and God in particular, that has to be trained out of children by a materialistic narrative.

When we choose to recognise that narrative for the fundamentally self defeating and irrational position that it is, the existence of God very quickly becomes obvious and the evidence for His existence is apparant everywhere.[/QUOTE
 
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dqhall

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Andreea,

What kinds of 'real proofs' will you accept?

What are the unique characteristics/qualities of a writing to be called a fairytale?

As a start, would this kind of verification be found to confirm a fairytale?

2,500 Year Old Jewish Tablets Discovered in Iraq

By Simcha Jacobovici


As we watch horrific images of beheadings from the country formerly called Iraq - a country that is disintegrating into various tribal fiefdoms before our eyes - it is easy to forget that it was once the cradle of civilization. In point of fact, Arabs are latecomers to the area. They are first mentioned in the mid 9th century BCE as a tribal people subjugated by the Assyrians. Way before that, the area was home to the Babylonians. First records indicate that Babylon was established as a city around the 23rd century BCE. It stood about 50 miles south of modern Baghdad. The city is mentioned in the Biblical Book of Genesis (11:9) as the home of the infamous Tower of Babel....

Now for the first time, one hundred and ten, 2,500 year old Babylonian tablets have been discovered in Iraq which provide a glimpse of Jewish life in Babylonian exile. Put simply, the tablets corroborate the Biblical tale. They describe a town called Al-Yahudu i.e., “the village of the Jews”, by the river Chebar, mentioned in Ezekiel 1:1. They also attest to Judaic names such as “Gedalyahu”, “Hanan”, “Dana”, “Shaltiel” and a man with the same name as Israel’s current Prime Minister, “Netanyahu”. The “yahu” ending to these names is called “theophoric”, meaning, they attest to a belief in the God of the Torah, by including part of God’s name in people’s personal names. The tablets also record everyday business transactions and witness to the Jewish return to Jerusalem (Nehemiah 6:15-16), as commemorated in personal names such as “Yashuv Zadik”, meaning, “the righteous shall return [to Zion]”.

This discovery is a remarkable confirmation of the historical reliability of the Biblical text.​

This is not reported in a Christian journal. It's from a secular newspaper online, The Huffington Post, 2015, 2017).

Oz
Archaeologists found Assyrian clay cuneiform tablets describing the name of kings of Israel and Judah listed in the Bible.

Sennacherib and Ashurbanipal are described in the Bible as Assyrian kings who attacked Israel/Judah. Their palaces along with their libraries were uncovered at Nineveh in the 19th century by Henry Austin Layard of Britain. They also left records of their military campaigns in Israel. The Assyrian records agree with the Biblical references. This proves parts of the Bible are factual.

In the Bible King Hezekiah of Judah dug a water tunnel between the Gihon Spring and Siloam in Jerusalem. The tunnel was found by archaeologists who also published an inscription in Hebrew recording the completion of the tunnel as groups of excavators met each other after digging from opposite ends.
 
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redleghunter

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Personally I have always found the moral argument appealing and convincing, the alternative denial is not acceptable to me, I refuse to believe that everything is ultimately meaningless and without purpose, including moral values. I refuse to believe such events (exactly as they occurred) as school shootings could be anything but evil, and because evil is a perversion of righteousness, in a backward manner the existence of evil also ends up proving the attribute of goodness and Holiness of God. See my previous posts for more arguments that you might find helpful.
I agree. In fact the run of violence and indifference rampant in Western societies is due to the birth child of the counter culture....nihilism.
 
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redleghunter

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@PsychoSarah , welcome to the other side ! (if you visit)

QUOTE="Anguspure, post: 72693932, member: 287386"]...and this is what has been proclaimed by the faithful ones from the beginning.....since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.

We underestimate how strongly our thinking has been high jacked, from an early age, by materialistic ideaology, in western society in particular.

It is a basic intuition of humanity to recognise the spiritual in general and God in particular, that has to be trained out of children by a materialistic narrative.

When we choose to recognise that narrative for the fundamentally self defeating and irrational position that it is, the existence of God very quickly becomes obvious and the evidence for His existence is apparant everywhere.[/QUOTE
Sarah can't come here a Christian only forum.
 
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redleghunter

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Those arguments were debunked by Dawkins in a short video.
All by himself no doubt. Dawkins believes refusing to hear God mentioned in the same line as logic to be a valid defeater. It's not, it's akin to impeaching a witness worn out cause.
 
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W2L

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I have always been skeptical about it. I just want to believe, I am trying, but can't!
Can anyone just give me real proofs that God exists? Not something personal because I won't believe it. How do I know that the Bible isn't only a fairytale? Are there any scientific proofs that Jesus really came to us? I am open to anything! Please!
There are times i think like this, other times i dont. I resist it because if Jesus is just a fairy tail then what hope is there in this life? There are times that i know God exists. Have you ever considered the beatitudes? Or 2 Corinthians 12:9-10 and Romans 5:3-5? I find that these scriptures are true.
 
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archer75

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I have always been skeptical about it. I just want to believe, I am trying, but can't!
Can anyone just give me real proofs that God exists? Not something personal because I won't believe it. How do I know that the Bible isn't only a fairytale? Are there any scientific proofs that Jesus really came to us? I am open to anything! Please!
You can be certain that the Bible isn't a fairy tale. Just read a few fairy tales. Were they like the Bible? Not really.

Of course, maybe you meant that as "how do I know it isn't just a pack of lies, legends, and confusion?" Well, in my experience, it sure can seem that way! To me it has been helpful to get involved with a tradition that "automatically" includes certain understandings of the Bible. That is, the Bible is part of the tradition that has been handed down.

That doesn't mean you need to check your brain at the door.
 
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PaulCyp1

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Unless you can provide a natural explanation for the origin of matter, energy, time and space where none of them had previously existed, a supernatural source is the only rational explanation.
 
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W2L

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Unless you can provide a natural explanation for the origin of matter, energy, time and space where none of them had previously existed, a supernatural source is the only rational explanation.
I have had doubts but then i remembered creation, and my doubts disappeared.
 
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Anguspure

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@PsychoSarah , welcome to the other side ! (if you visit)

QUOTE="Anguspure, post: 72693932, member: 287386"]...and this is what has been proclaimed by the faithful ones from the beginning.....since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.

We underestimate how strongly our thinking has been high jacked, from an early age, by materialistic ideaology, in western society in particular.

It is a basic intuition of humanity to recognise the spiritual in general and God in particular, that has to be trained out of children by a materialistic narrative.

When we choose to recognise that narrative for the fundamentally self defeating and irrational position that it is, the existence of God very quickly becomes obvious and the evidence for His existence is apparant everywhere.[/QUOTE
Actually for most of human history and, still now for the majority of humanity the other side is the materialist view.
The materialist sees it as sophisticated and intellectual to ignore what is plain and obvious in order to free himself from the constraints imposed by a supernatural world view.
But in doing so restricts himself to a narrow view that has served technological mankind well for a time but can now be seen to be an impediment to understanding and reason itself.
 
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Danielwright2311

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I have always been skeptical about it. I just want to believe, I am trying, but can't!
Can anyone just give me real proofs that God exists? Not something personal because I won't believe it. How do I know that the Bible isn't only a fairytale? Are there any scientific proofs that Jesus really came to us? I am open to anything! Please!

The discovery of the double-helix structure of the DNA molecule opened the floodgates for scientists to examine the code embedded within it. Now, more than half a century after the initial discovery, the DNA code has been deciphered—although many of its elements are still not well understood.

The double-helix structure of the DNA molecule holds billions apon billions of real code.

Real written code that is written in the cells.

Nothing writes its self.

There is no Computer program with out a programmer.

Its impossible.

The double-helix structure of the DNA is responsible for ALL LIFE ,Not just humans.

In the bible it says the life is in the blood.

We have scientifically proven the life is in the blood.

As all life is created and formed by the double-helix structure of the DNA.

God is our very designer and programmer.
 
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