GOD'S WORD vs TRADITIONS OF MEN; Sabbath vs Sunday

The7thColporteur

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The OT isn't the words of Jesus. ...
Listed, the words of the OT, come by the Holy Ghost, right?

2 Timothy 3:16 KJB - All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2 Peter 1:21 KJB - For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Acts 1:16 KJB - Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.

Acts 28:25 KJB - And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,

etc.
But the Holy Ghost speaks that which He hears, which is Jesus words:

John 16:12 KJB - I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.​

John 16:13 KJB - Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Revelation 3:1 KJB - And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.

Revelation 22:16 KJB - I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Revelation 22:17 KJB - And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.​

Therefore, the OT words are the words of Jesus, by and through the Holy Ghost, even as the Ten Commandments are, written with the Finger of God, the Holy Ghost [Exodus 8:19, 31:18; Deuteronomy 9:10; Luke 11:20; Matthew 12:28 KJB]. The Holy Ghost is the representative of Christ Jesus on earth.

... You can quote it till you're blue. ...
I must quote it unto death, even the death of the cross.

...Since you add to the words of the Scripture you violate Deuteronomy 4:2.
In quoting the scripture, how did I add to the word of God? please explain. I am citing scripture, which explains itself, such as what the "word" is, etc, as per Genesis 40:8; Isaiah 28:10,13, KJB, etc.
 
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The7thColporteur

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You posted the verse. You didn't say who it applies to or even to whom it's spoken to. Your idea seems to be the whole world when in fact the ten commandments are given only to Israel per Moses in Deuteronomy 5.
Can you show me from scripture, where the Ten Commandments are only given to Israel? I read Deuteronomy 5 KJB. I see several things therein, but not that the Ten Commandments are only for Israel.
 
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The7thColporteur

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Say what ever you like, but the OT has nothing to do with Christianity.
The OT [Genesis to Malachi] has everything to do with Christianity. It is the very word which Jesus quoted against the devil, and it is the very word by which the words of Matthew to Revelation are to be tested, etc. Jesus, Paul, Peter, James and John quoted extensively from the OT [Genesis to Malachi].

The covenant called the old covenant is written on 2 stone tablets per Deuteronomy 4:13.
Listed. Please listen. Please open to Deuteromony 4:13. Please pray before so doing. now as you read, show me where the Ten Commandments are called the 'old covenant'. in Deuteronomy 4:13. Listed it isn't there. You might say by other texts ... but you quoted to me Deuteornomy 4:13. Here is what it plainly says:

Deuteronomy 4:13 KJB - And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.
The Ten Commandments were to be "perform[ed]", by the peoples Israel because they [in Exodus 19 & 24] had agreed to obey God's voice in all things. The Ten Commandments are God's "my covenant", "his covenant". They are not the agreement between the peoples Israel and God, which was "If ... then ..." and "All that the LORD hath said, we will do."

Those are two things Listed. Not the same thing.

The "his covenant" is God's eternal promsies, not their agreement [old covenant] by their faulty promises. If the peoples Israel had kept agree in their 'old covenant', they would have seen the promises of God [His covenant] fulfilled in their lives.

You are assuming that when Deuteronomy 4:13 says "his covenant" that it means the 'old covenant'. Listed. It does not say that. Yes, the "his covenant" are the Ten Commandments", and in this instance upon stone [ministration thereof].

There are multiple covenants in the OT, even as this text shows:

Romans 9:4 KJB - Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;​

Please notice the difference between those 'covenants;' and the 'giving of the law', etc.

...It's called the old covenant because it's replaced. It's the only covenant so affected.
I agree that the 'old covenant' is replaced by the New/Everlasting [ratified by the bloof of Jesus at Calvary, etc] covenant.

I am not saying that the two covenants are the same.

No, Listed. The Ten Commandments are explicitly called, "his [God's] covenant", and they have perfect eternal and unfailing promises in them as Paul says [Ephesians 6:2 KJB]. They are not the 'old covenant' of the peoples Israel faulty promises that Paul also speaks of [Hebrews 8:6-8 KJB]. Where is the better promises than the Ten Commandments, wherein God promises in the Eternal/Everlasting/New Covenant that we shall not have other gods before God, etc, etc?
 
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The7thColporteur

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God taking counsel of men. That's a good one.
Actually both statements together, made an excellent point, at least to my mind. And yet, there may be something else in there, for instance, Jesus is now also man. He still enters into the counsels of God, His Father, and the Father hears the Son, and the Son the Father. I have to think on that some more. Interesting, [at least to my mind] that came out of that exchange between you both.
 
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The7thColporteur

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No the issue is you don't accept the new covenant.
Listed. I accept the New Covenant. God's Law is written upon my heart to both to will, do and obey the laws He wrote there, as he said He would as found in scripture [KJB], which is why I can test the law written upon my heart, by the word of God, and see that it is what God said He would write there.

I do have questions for Marco70 though on that, in how he tests that which is upon his heart, but it seems I will not get an answer at the moment, but perhaps at some future event, hopefully not too far, time is very short.

... It doesn't matter what the old covenant is, well was.
The old covenant still exists today. We ought to be aware of what it is, and knowledgeable about it. God does not say things, by/through the Holy Ghost to merely tickle our curiosities. Man lives by "every word" that proceedeth out of the mouth of God [and especially the Ten Commandments, since He most certainly spake those aloud].

If the old is not understood, how then can the new be seen for what it really is?
 
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The7thColporteur

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The verse preceding your quoted verse won't allow for your intended meaning.
I quoted them all. You mean this verse?

Jeremiah 31:32 KJB - Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:​

How so?
 
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The7thColporteur

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What is the difference between the 10 Commandments in Old Testament and the 10 Commandments today?

Please explain how the commandment to keep the Sabbath has changed from the Old Covenant to the New Covenant.

JLB
If I may also participate:

"... Not an external written letter, stony law. Now as it was always meant to be, an internally written, fleshy [not fleshly] law of spirit.

The Holy Ghost writes both.

Same Law.

Differing [a change in] ministrations [not Moses and lambs blood, but Jesus and His blood].

Differing [a change in] glories [not the face of Moses, but the face of Jesus].

Differing [a change in] locations [not stone, but flesh/heart].

Differing [a change in] promises [not the peoples "we will do", but God's "I will"].
This is the difference in the covenants. The promises of the people were fleeting, vanity, but the promises of God are eternal, unfailing. ..." - The Sabbth-day Law Can Be Violated
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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I'm not ignorant as you promote.
As usual, you misread... I said you were ignorant of the sanctuary message. Unless you would like to show the gospel though the OT sanctuary service and prove me wrong.
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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Please explain how the commandment to keep the Sabbath has changed from the Old Covenant to the New Covenant.
JLB

The same as how the Commandment to not murder changed... from merely the literal "letter" to the figurative "spirit". We are told by Christ that not only is killing someone wrong but also the seed, anger, is also under condemnation unless repented of.

The Sabbath is no different... the literal "letter" still applies... not working and doing our own pleasure on God's Holy day but now the "spirit" also is understood. That we are to rest in Christ and give glory to the Creator of all things. The Sabbath is not now just about physical rest but also reverence and recognition of our Creator. To contemplate the spiritual aspects of our world through nature and to glorify the maker of Heaven and earth.
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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"gospel through the OT sanctuary service"
I simply did an internet search for this. It is amazing ! (not related to this thread though)
It is deeper than you know... the object lessons contained in the sanctuary is immense. We will spend eternity fleshing out all the hidden gems that God has contained in His Word.
 
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Marco70

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It is indeed a tragic place to be, when you can only reel off the partial letter of scripture, that has no bearing on the reality of your own life, yet demand others fully obey it.

Jesus reserved his harshest words for the religious who acted as such when he walked this earth.

No love in it at all for others. Christ's law is being negated, shut out of your life
 
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Marco70

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Listed. I accept the New Covenant. God's Law is written upon my heart to both to will, do and obey the laws He wrote there, as he said He would as found in scripture [KJB], which is why I can test the law written upon my heart, by the word of God, and see that it is what God said He would write there.

I do have questions for Marco70 though on that, in how he tests that which is upon his heart, but it seems I will not get an answer at the moment, but perhaps at some future event, hopefully not too far, time is very short.

T
Though there is nothing to be gained by responding to your posts...


Sin is the transgression of the law 1John3:4

Through the law we become conscious of sin Rom3:20

Under the NC the law God desires you to follow is written in your heart and placed on your mind. Therefore, if, or when you wilfully transgress it, you MUST(MUST) have heartfelt conviction you sin by doing so. As, if you understood where your theology leads, you would agree with me. But you appear not to. It seems you believe you can only be sure of knowing what sin is/the law God desires you to follow by reading the letter of OT law. Why? Do you not believe sin is the transgression of the law? Do you not believe through the law we become conscious of sin? Do you not believe the law is written in the mind and placed on the heart of the believer? What is in your mind, you in your mind must surely know, and the law in your heart must bring heartfelt conviction of sin if you wilfully transgress it. And yet, you appear to disagree.

As to which law is written on the heart and mind.
I think(correct me if I am wrong) You agree with lgw, the entire law God wants you to follow is based on the TC. All other law is a derivative of the Ten. So if you obey the TC, you will find yourself obeying all the law God desires you to follow.

Lets look at Jesus words:

Jesus replied: ‘“Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.” 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: “Love your neighbour as yourself.” 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments
Matt22:37-40

Now I'm sure you will not criticise Jesus for failing to say the law hangs on obeying the TC, but rather the law hangs on loving God with all your heart, soul and mind, and love your neighbour as yourself. And there are many dirivites of this. are you now asking me to give an inexhaustible list of dirivites of love God and love your neighbour? Do you wish to do the same where the TC are concerned?

I will give you one example, of love your neighbour, hows that?
Paul wrote:
Carry each others burdens(love them) and so fulfil the law of Christ Gal6:2

Is it in your heart and mind to love your neighbour as yourself, to carry their burdens in love for them?
If it is, would you agree with what is in my heart and mind, that to reel off the partial letter of scripture, and to demand of others by doing so, what you do not demand of yourself/you fail to practice in your own life, is to go against the heart of the law that must be in the believers heart and mind. And therefore, you must, if you have truly been born again be conscious you do wrong by doing so? For you would not be carrying your brothers burdens in love, but crushing him with burdens you yourself do not even try to carry. And, Jesus called that hypocrisy.
Hope you will answer the question. Thanks in advance
 
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JLB777

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The Sabbath is no different... the literal "letter" still applies..


You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. 15 Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. Exodus 31:14-15


If you believe the Sabbath law has not changed, then how do you and your congregation put to death those who violate the Sabbath today under the New Covenant?

Do you stone them?

Do you shoot them?



JLB
 
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JLB777

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If I may also participate:

"... Not an external written letter, stony law. Now as it was always meant to be, an internally written, fleshy [not fleshly] law of spirit.

The Holy Ghost writes both.

Same Law.

Differing [a change in] ministrations [not Moses and lambs blood, but Jesus and His blood].

Differing [a change in] glories [not the face of Moses, but the face of Jesus].

Differing [a change in] locations [not stone, but flesh/heart].

Differing [a change in] promises [not the peoples "we will do", but God's "I will"].
This is the difference in the covenants. The promises of the people were fleeting, vanity, but the promises of God are eternal, unfailing. ..." - The Sabbth-day Law Can Be Violated


Paul says it this way.


One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it.
Romans 14:5-6


JLB
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. 15 Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. Exodus 31:14-15


If you believe the Sabbath law has not changed, then how do you and your congregation put to death those who violate the Sabbath today under the New Covenant?

Do you stone them?

Do you shoot them?
JLB

Death will indeed come to the Law breakers... the new covenant is an individual one not corporate like the old.
 
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Marco70

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Death will indeed come to the Law breakers... the new covenant is an individual one not corporate like the old.
That would include those who have impure thoughts/lust? For you would agree, the law must be obeyed inwardly, as well as outwardly
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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That would include those who have impure thoughts/lust? For you would agree, the law must be obeyed inwardly, as well as outwardly
Any known unrepented sin will stand in Judgement... the seed of the outward sin is in the mind. Remember though, temptation is not sin, only the harbouring and contemplation on the tempting thought.
 
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Marco70

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Any known unrepented sin will stand in Judgement... the seed of the outward sin is in the mind. Remember though, temptation is not sin, only the harbouring and contemplation on the tempting thought.
Agreed. If you dwell on an impure thought you have broken the TC. You can sin internally without it being obvious externally. Concerning unrepentant sin. I cannot fathom such a thing personally. If I wilfully transgress the law placed in my heart my conscience is seered, I have no rest and no peace until I come before my Father in Heaven and tell him I am sorry for how I acted. My saying sorry must follow as surely as night follows day
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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Agreed. If you dwell on an impure thought you have broken the TC. You can sin internally without it being obvious externally Concerning unrepentant sin. I cannot fathom such a thing personally. If I wilfully transgress the law placed in my heart my conscience is seered, I have no rest and no peace until I come before my Father in Heaven and tell him I am sorry for how I acted. My saying sorry must follow as surely as night follows day
Amen... well said.
 
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