Is sin really the transgression of the law?

[Doveaman]

In 1 John 3:4 we read that sin is the transgression of the law.

This passage of Scripture is often used by many to define what sin is, but I'm not sure the Apostle John was defining sin with this passage, because when we read the entire verse we get a clearer understanding of John's message.

The entire verse reads:

"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law." - (1 John 3:4)

Whoever commits sin is also transgressing the law.

John is saying that when we sin we also transgress the law.

We sin in addition to transgressing the law.

This means that the sin and the transgression are not necessarily the same thing.

We sin, and the law becomes transgressed in addition to the sin.

John, therefore, is not necessarily defining sin, but is simply telling us what happens when we commit sin.

When we commit sin we also transgress the law, and the law then makes us conscious, or aware, of the sin that we already committed.

The Apostle Paul said:

'Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "Do not covet."' - (Rom 7:7)

Before the law was given, Paul did not know that coveting was a sin, but when the law came, Paul became conscious, or aware, of his sin.

Paul continued:

"Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died...For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death." - (Rom 7:9-11)

Before the law was given, sin had no power to condemn Paul, but when the commandments of the law came, Paul was then condemned by sin through the authority of the law.

It is the authority of law that gives sin the power to condemn. This is why the Christian is not condemned by sin; it is because we are not under the authority of the law:

"For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace." - (Rom 6:14)

 

[LoveGodsWord]

There is no need to be unsure as to what sin is. God's WORD is very clear.

WHAT IS SIN?

James 2
8, If ye fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well:
9, But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10, For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, YOU ARE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF GOD'S LAW

James is pretty clear if we brake ANY of God's Law (10 commandments) then we are a TRANSGRESSOR of God's LAW

links to...........

1 John 3
4 Whosoever commits SIN transgresses also the law: for SIN is the transgression of the law.

John is in agreement with James and states that if we TRANSGRESS God's LAW then we commit SIN because SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF GOD'S LAW. So it is very clear that SIN is breaking ANY of God's LAW (10 commandments)

Links to...........

Romans 7
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known SIN, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Well here we have Paul in agreement with James and John also telling us that SIN is breaking God's commandments and uses the 10th commandment as an example of breaking any of God's LAW (10 commandments) = SIN (Exodus 20:17)

Links to............

Romans 3
20, Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN.

Once again Paul is in agreement with John and James which all agree together that if we break any of God's LAW (10 commandments) we commit SIN because as James, John and Paul all agree together that SIN is breaking ANY of God's 10 commandments.

God's Word is in disagreement with you my friend. SIN is the transgression of God's LAW (10 commandments)

Doverman wrote: This is why the Christian is not condemned by sin; it is because we are not under the authority of the law:

You may want to re-visit that statement and what it means to be "UNDER THE LAW"

God's Word says to be "UNDER THE LAW" is to be guilty of breaking God's LAW. (Romans 7:7; James 2:9-11; 1 John 3:4)

When you understand what it means to be 'UNDER THE LAW" then all the scriptures above make sense.

It is true you are not "UNDER THE LAW" if you have REPENTED, CONFESSED, FORSAKEN your SINS and BELIEVE God's promise of FORGIVENESS (Prov 28:13; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 1 John 1:9) but if you are still practicing KNOWN UNREPETNANT SIN then you are still "UNDER THE LAW" and guilty of SIN (breaking God's LAW).

Romans 3
19, Now we know that what things soever the law said, it said to them who are UNDER THE LAW: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20, Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21, But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22, Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ to all and on all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23, For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God

God's LAW (10 Commandments) is to give us a KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is and lead us to JESUS (Gal 3:24-25) that we might be justified by FAITH. Not being "UNDER THE LAW" means your no longer under the CONDEMNATION of the LAW because you have been FOGIVEN for your SINS.

IF you are still CONTINUING in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN you do not KNOW GOD because you have rejected his GIFT of SALVATION through his Son and you are still in your SINS.

Romans 2:12
For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

ALL who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN WILL be LOST and NOT Enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

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SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

 

[The7thColporteur]

In 1 John 3:4 we read that sin is the transgression of the law...

Yep that's what is plainly says:

1 John 3:4 KJB - Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

[a perfect parallelism by John]
​

1 John 2:7 KJB - Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.
​

The Same Ten Commandments from "the beginning" in Genesis:

Eternal Table 1, from the beginning - GOD'S WORD vs TRADITIONS OF MEN; Sabbath vs Sunday

Eternal Table 2, from the beginning - GOD'S WORD vs TRADITIONS OF MEN; Sabbath vs Sunday​

It is even connected with the sins that Jesus has taken upon himself:

1 John 3:5 KJB - And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
​

Therefore, Sabbath-breaking was sin then, and is still sin now, as was shown that the Ten Commandments are eternal in the Heavens, unchanged, just as God Himself remains the same, forever - The ARK of the Covenant HAS BEEN FOUND since AD 1844! The Sabbath Commandment [Ex. 20:8-11] is seen!

 

[The7thColporteur]

I will wait for you to ask me about the word "also", since there are two things, God [His person] and His Law [written transcript of His perfect character], see Exodus 10:16; Deuteronomy 9:16; Romans 8:7 KJB. Sinning against God, is to 'also' sin against His Law, since it is His character written.

Daniel 9:11 KJB - Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.​

 

[Doveaman]

I will wait for you to ask me about the word "also", since there are two things, God [His person] and His Law [written transcript of His perfect character], see Exodus 10:16; Deuteronomy 9:16; Romans 8:7 KJB. Sinning against God, is to 'also' sin against His Law, since it is His character written.

Daniel 9:11 KJB - Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.​

We do not sin against the Law. We sin against God.

Sin is an offense against God.

When we sin against God we also transgress the Law, and the Law makes us conscious of the offense against God.

"Therefore no one will be declared righteous in His sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin." - (Rom 3:20).

 

[LoveGodsWord]

We do not sin against the Law. We sin against God.

Sin is an offense against God.

When we sin against God we we also transgress the Law, and the Law makes us conscious of the offense against God:

"Therefore no one will be declared righteous in His sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin." - (Rom 3:20).

No one is made rightoeus by obseving the law.

Sinning against God's LAW however is sinning against God as it is God's LAW your sinning against

HEBREWS 6:4-8 [4], For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, [5], And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, [6], If they shall fall away, to renew them again to repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. [7], For the earth which drinks in the rain that comes oft on it, and brings forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receives blessing from God: [8], But that which bears thorns and briers is rejected, and is near to cursing; whose end is to be burned.

Those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

HEBREWS 10:26-27 [26], For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins,[27], But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

................

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

 

[Marco70]

It is the authority of law that gives sin the power to condemn. This is why the Christian is not condemned by sin; it is because we are not under the authority of the law:

"For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace." - (Rom 6:14)

Those who can only quote the letter will never understand the truth, for it makes no rational sense to the rational mind of man.
Die to righteousness of observing the law/the law has no authority to condemn you, and sin shall not be your master.

 

[The7thColporteur]

We do not sin against the Law. We sin against God.

Sin is an offense against God.

When we sin against God we also transgress the Law, and the Law makes us conscious of the offense against God.

"Therefore no one will be declared righteous in His sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin." - (Rom 3:20).

Nitpicking my words does not negate what I said, nor quoted to you.

Nehemiah 9:29 KJB - And testifiedst against them, that thou mightest bring them again unto thy law: yet they dealt proudly, and hearkened not unto thy commandments, but sinned against thy judgments, (which if a man do, he shall live in them and withdrew the shoulder, and hardened their neck, and would not hear.​

 

[BobRyan]

In 1 John 3:4 we read that "sin is the transgression of the law".

True. Good point.

And in Genesis 2 God says not to eat of the fruit of the forbidden tree.
And Satan comes along in Genesis 3 with "did God really say that...?"

This passage of Scripture is often used by many to define what sin is, but I'm not sure the Apostle John was defining sin with this passage,

1 John 3:4 - "SIN IS" -- what? according to that text?

"sin is the transgression of the law".


The entire verse reads:

"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law." - (1 John 3:4)

I think you have deleted your own point.

 

[BobRyan]

"For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace." - (Rom 6:14)

Romans 6
What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?

"for SIN IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4

Romans 6
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, 13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

"Under Law" meaning "under condemnation of the Law" as already defined in Romans 3:19-21

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! 16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

 

[Marco70]

Romans 6
What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?

"for SIN IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4

Romans 6
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, 13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

"Under Law" meaning "under condemnation of the Law" as already defined in Romans 3:19-21

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! 16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

If someone told me I was not under the condemnation of the law, but if I broke the law/committed sin I could no longer be in a saved state/I was in a condemned state, due to breaking the law, I would be extremely confused

 

[BobRyan]

If someone told me I was not under the condemnation of the law, but if I broke the law/committed sin I could no longer be in a saved state/I was in a condemned state, due to breaking the law, I would be extremely confused

I am not under the condemnation of my government's law against stealing... but if I do steal - I will be guilty of stealing under that law.

This is not even remotely confusing.

If I DO steal and someone pays my debt and expunges my record then once again I am not guilty under the LAW of my state of stealing.

Then if I "steal again" I am convicted as James 2 says -- as a transgressor of that law.

under the new covenant we are released from condemnation and the law of God is written on the heart - new creation, new heart. But this is not a blank check to start 'taking God's name in vain"' as Romans 6 points out - you ARE the servant of the one you actually obey.

 

[Marco70]

I am not under the condemnation of my government's law against stealing... but if I do steal - I will be guilty of stealing under that law.

This is not even remotely confusing.

If you tell someone they are not under the condemnation of the law, but if they break the law, they are condemned by doing so/placed in a condemned state by doing so, how is that not being under the condemnation of the law?

 

[BobRyan]

If you tell someone they are not under the condemnation of the law, but if they break the law, they are condemned by doing so/placed in a condemned state by doing so, how is that not being under the condemnation of the law?

Because in Romans 3:19-21 Paul defines the term as under condemnation of the law.

And Paul says you cannot then go on choosing to sin once having been released from the condemnation or you are toasting yourself all over again -- which is why I quote Romans 6 on that every detail... and you do not.

 

[Marco70]

I am not under the condemnation of my government's law against stealing... but if I do steal - I will be guilty of stealing under that law.

This is not even remotely confusing.

If I DO steal and someone pays my debt and expunges my record then once again I am not guilty under the LAW of my state of stealing.

Then if I "steal again" I am convicted as James 2 says -- as a transgressor of that law.

under the new covenant we are released from condemnation and the law of God is written on the heart - new creation, new heart. But this is not a blank check to start 'taking God's name in vain"' as Romans 6 points out - you ARE the servant of the one you actually obey.

So not being under the law, entails fully observing the law? If you do not fully observe the law, you then live under the law and are condemned by it. Is that your view?

 

[BobRyan]

So not being under the law, entails fully observing the law?

1 John 3:4 says "sin IS transgression of the law" -- not just "a lot of sin will eventually be transgression of the law" -- and we both know it.

Not being under the Law means we have been forgiven -- it does not mean God wants us to go on taking His name in vain.

Everyone sees this point. I believe you do too - and it is made in the Romans 6 verses already quoted - that you are not addressing.

 

[Marco70]

1 John 3:4 says "sin IS transgression of the law" -- not just "a lot of sin will eventually be transgression of the law" -- and we both know it.

Not being under the Law means we have been forgiven -- it does not mean God wants us to go on taking His name in vain.

Everyone sees this point. I believe you do too - and it is made in the Romans 6 verses already quoted - that you are not addressing.

What I do not understand is this. If you are condemned by breaking the law, how is that not living under the condemnation of it?

 

[BobRyan]

What I do not understand is this. If you are condemned by breaking the law, how is that not living under the condemnation of it?

I am not condemned by the Laws of my state that say it is a crime to steal.

you saw that post right?

And as it turns out - I am not under the condemnation of that law.

You saw that post too right?

And if I were to commit that crime and someone were to pay my debt and expunge my record - I would once again NOT be under the condemnation of that law.

Not sure why you respond as if I am not posting this point. You can differ with it but - some sort of response to the point would be useful.

After all - Romans 6 is making the same point

 

[Marco70]

I am not condemned by the Laws of my state that say it is a crime to steal.

you saw that post right?

And as it turns out - I am not under the condemnation of that law.

You saw that post too right?

And if I were to commit that crime and someone were to pay my debt and expunge my record - I would once again NOT be under the condemnation of that law.

Not sure why you respond as if I am not posting this point. You can differ with it but - some sort of response to the point would be useful.

So why did Jesus die on the cross? Under the OC no one was condemned by the law unless they broke it. If the same system exists today, why could scripture relentlessly state you are not under law? You are under the same system as they were under for the OC?

 

[BobRyan]

Though I use the example of the crime of "theft" --

Paul says it this way


Romans 6
What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?

"for SIN IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4

Romans 6
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, 13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

"Under Law" meaning "under condemnation of the Law" as already defined in Romans 3:19-21

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! 16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?