Proverbs 30:30 and actual lion behaviour.

W2L

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The historic distribution of lions (red in the picture) includes the Holy Land. But the distribution range of elephants and buffalo is further south. It's quite possible that lions in the Holy Land did not turn away from anything else.
Interesting.
 
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Radagast

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Its like your local library. Some things in it can be taken literally. Some obviously cannot.

Actually, the New Living Translation does a very nice job translating the passage in the OP:

There are three things that walk with stately stride—no, four that strut about:
the lion, king of animals, who won’t turn aside for anything;
the strutting rooster;
the male goat;
a king as he leads his army.


Now, I ask you, does that passage look like it's telling us about the ethology of lions? Does "I saw a lion turn aside once" contradict the passage? Or is the passage perhaps telling us something about the behaviour of this North Korean gentleman?

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durangodawood

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...Now, I ask you, does that passage look like it's telling us about the ethology of lions? Does "I saw a lion turn aside once" contradict the passage? Or is the passage perhaps telling us something about the behaviour of this North Korean gentleman?
I think youre exactly right.

The passage is meant to be a metaphor for human behavior using poetic hyperbole of lion capabilities.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Hi, I have spotted an apparent error in the following verse, which is annoying me. Proverbs 30:30 states, in multiple translations, that the lion does not turn away from other animals... but in fact lions do indeed turn away from other beasts. They usually retreat in the face of a herd of buffalo; they turn and get out of the way of aggressive elephant. Even hyaenas will run them off a kill if they outnumber them.

Can anyone find a way to resolve this apparent discrepancy?


Proverbs 30:30


New American Standard Bible (NASB):
30 The lion which is mighty among beasts
And does not retreat before any,

King James Version (KJV):
A lion which is strongest among beasts, and turneth not away for any;

Proverb 30:30 isn't a scientific treatise on the behavior of P. leo, but using the lion as an example of a strong, courageous animal?

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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If the lion was hungry it wouldn't turn away from a herd of buffalo. It would most likely attack from the rear, and try to take down a buffalo.

If it was desperate enough that its hunger was over running its self preservation behavior--but I suspect that even a desperate lion wouldn't attack a herd, but would try and snag a young or sickly member safely far enough away from the herd.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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icxn

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The Septuagint has:

29 And there are three things which go well, and a fourth which passes along finely. 30 A lion's whelp, stronger than all other beasts, which turns not away, nor fears any beast; 31 and a [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] walking in boldly among the hens, and the he-goat leading the herd; and a king publicly speaking before a nation.​

In my opinion, the lion's whelp is Christ who turned not away nor did He feared the Jews who wanted to kill Him. He is the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] walking boldly among His disciples. He is the goat leading His disobedient people (from the Jews) and a King speaking before the Christians.
 
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1 John 4:1

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@Chesterton I think you are trolling. Announcing that you are SO much more learned than some other people on this thread that you find their posts fascinating (by virtue of them being jaw-droppingly ignorant) is bound to get a negative response.
 
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Chesterton

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@Chesterton I think you are trolling. Announcing that you are SO much more learned than some other people on this thread that you find their posts fascinating (by virtue of them being jaw-droppingly ignorant) is bound to get a negative response.
You're wrong about trolling but probably right about the rest of it.
 
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Ophiolite

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@Chesterton I think you are trolling. Announcing that you are SO much more learned than some other people on this thread that you find their posts fascinating (by virtue of them being jaw-droppingly ignorant) is bound to get a negative response.
Come now. Surely Chesterton comes across as a pleasant chap who is very humble, perhaps because he has much to be humble about. :)
 
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Ophiolite

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@Ophiolite no it's the honey badger because the honey badger don't care!
You may be right. Only yesterday I said to my wife, "Honey, please don't badger me." And she replied that she didn't care.
 
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Radagast

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The Septuagint has:

29 And there are three things which go well, and a fourth which passes along finely. 30 A lion's whelp, stronger than all other beasts, which turns not away, nor fears any beast; 31 and a [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] walking in boldly among the hens, and the he-goat leading the herd; and a king publicly speaking before a nation.​

In my opinion, the lion's whelp is Christ who turned not away nor did He feared the Jews who wanted to kill Him. He is the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] walking boldly among His disciples. He is the goat leading His disobedient people (from the Jews) and a King speaking before the Christians.

Well, no, actually. This is not a prophetic passage.
 
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icxn

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Well, no, actually. This is not a prophetic passage.
And when I thought that limiting the interpretation to the prophetic sense would be more acceptable... how about a tropological one?

A lion’s whelp is a determined mind that directs all its anger against the passions of the flesh (the beast) and does not turn away from, nor is afraid of bodily labors. A [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]* is a chaste disposition that remains cool** amidst the pleasures of the body. A goat leading the herd, is he who has gained control over evil thoughts and is no more led by them to act sinfully. And finally, a king speaking in the assembly of a nation is the mind that reigns over the senses and convincingly refutes the suggestions of the demons (the nation).

_________
* The Greek word for [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], ἀλέκτωρ also means unwedded.
** The word translated as boldly, εὔψυχος relates to cooling.
 
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Radagast

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And when I thought that limiting the interpretation to the prophetic sense would be more acceptable... how about a tropological one?

A lion’s whelp is a determined mind that directs all its anger against the passions of the flesh (the beast) and does not turn away from, nor is afraid of bodily labors. A [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]* is a chaste disposition that remains cool** amidst the pleasures of the body. A goat leading the herd, is he who has gained control over evil thoughts and is no more led by them to act sinfully. And finally, a king speaking in the assembly of a nation is the mind that reigns over the senses and convincingly refutes the suggestions of the demons (the nation).

That doesn't impress me either.
 
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icxn

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That doesn't impress me either.
I piped to you the prophecy about Christ and you did not dance. I sang the dirge of repentance like St. John and you did not mourn.

What else can I say?
 
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