Noxout, "do we only love God because God loves us?" YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!
Dysert, If I don't ever feel love from him, that's not enough for me. It's like being married and never in love with your wife. Sorry, God, it is not enough. I can't feel love for you if you don't let me feel love from you. I'm human. You're God. Get on it. Otherwise, do. not. waste. my. time. I will not waste yours. I didn't feel love from my dad and cut him off emotionally. I've cut others off for way less. As a kid, you learn to cut and run real quick when you are abused and ignored by someone that claims, "I love you."
Andrew777, I'm over church. I've gotten, due to church abuse, to being sick of the very smell of churches. Churches in the south are so cliquish it is ridiculous. I literally have no interest in being in one not making one friend in 25 years and sitting alone 99% of that time. I'm also sick of hearing preachers and their "7 steps" to this and "nine steps" to that....Oh, for God's sakes, just shut up with your steps! The preachers that stand and yell about "Let's go to the mountain" and so forth...is that really necessary? How about explaining things rather than yelling! Then, there is the Joel Osteen types. "It's all wonderful rainbows and unicorns. Be blessed today....."
Heavenhome, thank you.
Mark, if God can't figure out I need comforting, sorry, is he really God? I don't know how God even comforts someone.
So I have some deep arcane wisdom of the ages, which I cultivated from decades in the church, and reading my Bible daily for over 5 years of reading through the Bible each year, and from all that I have some advice.....
This is going to be heavy. Ready?
Don't go to Church.
Worth becoming a sponsor of the forums for that, right? ...deeeeeeeep....
None of us here, are wagging their fingers at you. We're not lecturing you like the SNL Church Lady skit, and saying 'now you better go to church, you heathen!'.
We are only saying to you, what we hope will help you. My only hope is that sometime in the future you come to a forum like this, telling everyone how awesome your life has become.
If right now, going to church is not what is best, then don't go to church.
I hope you'll forgive me, but I'd like to tell you a little about my own experience, and maybe you'll get something from it. (it's going to be long)
I never had much connection to my parents church, because none of the kids had much connection to my parents church. Few if any still go to that church. It wasn't bad, it just didn't connect much with the younger people.
I went to several churches, and many were bonkers, a little like what you described. One, at the end of the service, my only thought was "What....... just happened? What is this place?".
I joined another church, and things seemed to be ok. I then joined a small social group. Never had much luck with social groups at churches, but I determined for myself that I would give it 1 year, and then evaluate if I should keep doing it. I figured that was a safe bet. Dedicate to keep doing it for 1 year no matter what. If after 12 months it was terrible, I'd quit.
Well about 14 months later, I wasn't entirely sure where I stood in the group. I couldn't figure out if I had friends there, or not. It seemed ok... and then...
So one day the group, after church, decided to go to such-and-such location. A young lady in the group said in a cheery voice "If anyone doesn't know where this place is, you are welcome to ride with me! Just meet me at my car!"
Now I had at a previous event, gotten lost. I am notably terrible with directions, and this was before every single smart phone was a perfect GPS mapping system.
So I followed the woman, and two other guys towards her car. No kidding, this really happened, it was like a bad movie. About half way to the car, the two guys looked at each other, and then nudged her, and she spun around and put her hand up in front of me.
"We're going to be playing some loud music that you won't like. You should probably find some other way to get there".
I smiled, laughing to myself. I'd seen this look a million times. I knew what it meant. I spun on my heal, and walked to my car, and went home.
Unwanted... Cruel... Normal. At the time I was a little hurt, but later thankful to the woman. She allowed me to see the reality of my situation, which happened 2 weeks later.
So every Thursday, the group got together after a short Bible study, and watched TV at the pastor's house. I got there, pulled up a chair, and started watching TV with everyone. Then..... it hit me.
Why was I there? To watch TV? I could do that at home, and the reason I didn't is because I didn't particularly care for the TV program we were watching.
So why was I there? To socialized with my fellow Christians. Except, I wasn't socializing. I looked around the room, and realized no one was talking with me. No one was even near me. They were all talking with each other, but no one was there talking to me. No one had any intention of talking with me.
I realized that if I were to grab my stuff, put the chair away, and walk out... even though we all just got there, no one would notice, and no one would care. I then made a bet with myself. If I leave the group and never see any of these people again, that I had been with constantly for the last almost year and a half, no one would even attempt to contact me for months.
I put the chair away, grabbed my stuff, and walked out. No one said a word, no one even knew I had left. Which isn't surprising since I doubt they knew I had shown up. I won the bet too. It was 5 months before I got a single solitary email from one member of the group, which amounted to "Just checking in on you!". (as if he couldn't see me at church every Sunday, but apparently it's too hard to walk up and say 'hi').
Now.... at this point you are likely thinking that if this is my argument for going to church, it's not very good. Why would I want to go to church, when clearly I've had such horrible experiences. (and these are only a two of them).
I have an answer. My parents.
My parents have always had their friends at church. Co-workers come and go. Our neighbors where my parents live, have all moved, or died. But their friends at church have always been there.
When one of their church friends son died of a strange illness, it was my parents that went to them, and wept with them. When my parents had big problems, it was their church friends that came and prayed with them. When they started a new business, they called my parents to come and celebrate with them. When my parents finished renovating their little lake house, it was their church friends that sat drinking and eating s'mores around the fire pit in celebration.
I've seen them do life with their Church friends. When my parents celebrated their 50th wedding anniversary, yeah they had a work friend, a neighbor, a few relatives.... but most were all their church friends, eating drinking, talking about all they had been through the last 30 years of them being in the church.
And to be honest, I don't see many Christians getting the good christian life, when they don't go to church. Just being open with you, when I meet Christians that don't go to church, few if any are living out the joy of the Lord.
Is it impossible to have the joy of a Christian life without church? I don't know. That's above my pay grade. But I can say, that I haven't seen it much if at all.
So I keep trying. I keep believing that this is better than the alternative.
Now does that mean I think you should throw yourself into the nearest church when you have been abused? No. I said that at the start. Don't go to church.
If you are wounded by people at Church, then don't go to church. At least not right now.
When I quit going to the old church, and before I started going to the one I'm at now, I found a solution that really helped me.
I started going to online church.
Seacoast Church
Life.Church Online
Celebration Church | Live
These are just some options. I'm not lecturing you. I'm not wagging my finger at you.
I really enjoyed the teaching and the people of Seacoast. I always went to the live teaching. If you want, you can talk to other people who are watching it live with you. If you don't, that's ok too.
I went to SeaCoast church online, for about 6 months, and I am really glad that I did. It was... odd, that when I found a good local church to attend, that I somewhat felt badly for not going to Seacoast anymore, because I really liked those people at the online service.
Anyway.... You need to do what is best for you. Remember, we all want to just help you. My advice might be useless to you, or maybe it will help. But never think I want anything else, than for you to be in a better place in the future, than where you are now.
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