GOD'S WORD vs TRADITIONS OF MEN; Sabbath vs Sunday

BobRyan

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Do you know any self righteous jerks?? They act as if they know truth, but the cant reveal their true sources. (The bible don't agree with them)

hmmmm....revealing.

What part of the Bible did you quote just then?
 
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BobRyan

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Yet again, you have posted this false teaching.

Celebrating the resurrection of Jesus on Sunday has nothing to do with Saturday.
..

The SDA interpretation follows an earlier traditional reading of the text, where the ten commandments have priority.
.

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God"
Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"
1 John 5:2-3 "this IS the LOVE of God that we KEEP His Commandments"
Eph 6:2 the 5th commandment "is the FIRST commandment WITH a promise"

Not exactly "unknown news" to these non-SDA groups

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism

And we all know it.
 
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BobRyan

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I can't find the phrase "obey and live" in the Bible. Can you share the exact text?

....it is such and obvious answer.

Genesis 2.
“From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; 17 but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.”

Lev 18:5 "5 So you shall keep My statutes and My judgments, by which a man may live if he does them; I am the Lord."

Gal 3:12 Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”

Gal 3: 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”

Rom 10: 5 For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, “The man who does those things shall live by them.”

Matt 19: 17 if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.

======================

Ignoring every detail in the post... we have this

So "obey and live" is not actually a quote, .

Hint
Quotation Marks | Punctuation Rules
rule 8a
 
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Bob S

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There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

On the contrary LGW. We have the plain scripture from Paul in 2Cor3 that negates what you keep telling us. Thought you might like the Message version:

7-8 The Government of Death, its constitution chiseled on stone tablets, had a dazzling inaugural. Moses’ face as he delivered the tablets was so bright that day (even though it would fade soon enough) that the people of Israel could no more look right at him than stare into the sun. How much more dazzling, then, the Government of Living Spirit?

9-11 If the Government of Condemnation was impressive, how about this Government of Affirmation? Bright as that old government was, it would look downright dull alongside this new one. If that makeshift arrangement impressed us, how much more this brightly shining government installed for eternity?

Then I will post the NLV for you to contemplate:

7 The Law of Moses was written on stone and it brought death. But God’s shining-greatness was seen when it was given. When Moses took it to the Jews, they could not look at his face because of the bright light. But that bright light in his face began to pass away. 8 The new way of life through the Holy Spirit comes with much more shining-greatness. 9 If the Law of Moses, that leads to death, came in shining-greatness, how much greater and brighter is the light that makes us right with God? 10 The Law of Moses came with shining-greatness long ago. But that light is no longer bright. The shining-greatness of the New Way of Worship that brings us life is so much brighter. 11 The shining light that came with the Law of Moses soon passed away. But the new way of life is much brighter. It will never pass away.

As can plainly be seen the new and eternal covenant replaced the law that brought death. The new covenant is much brighter. It is the new way to Worship. Our new covenant not only shows us how to live, it assures us of eternal life. Thank you Lord Jesus.
 
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JLB777

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Matthew 5 "do not even think that I came to reduce or abolish the LAW"
Mark 2:27 "the SABBATH was MADE for mankind"
Acts 18:4 "EVERY Sabbath" both Jews and gentiles gathered in the synagogue to hear Gospel preaching - and as they heard they were believing -- yet still meeting "every Sabbath".
Isaiah 66:23 for "all eternity after the cross" -- "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" - in the New Earth.
Acts 15 - the Christian church "solution" relies on the fact that "every Sabbath Moses is preached in the Synagogues"
Hebrew 4 'there REMAINS therefore a SABBATH rest for the people of God"

None of that is said in either OT or NT about "week-day-1"


I don’t see any references or examples or commandments about how the Church is to keep the Sabbath under the New Covenant, or about a specific day of the week, that we are to gather and worship the Lord.


Acts 15 - the Christian church "solution" relies on the fact that "every Sabbath Moses is preached in the Synagogues"

Yes, Moses is preached in synagogues.

Does this scripture mean we are to attend synagogues to worship Jesus on the Sabbath?


Please stick to answering my question.

It’s not a complicated question.

Can you show us in the New Testament where Jesus or the Apostles commanded us to gather on Saturday to worship Jesus?


If keeping the Sabbath is of such a great importance, then please provide the scriptures from Jesus and the Apostles, that instruct the Church as to how to keep the Sabbath.


None of us want to break any of His commandments, so please show us how we are to keep the Sabbath, under the New Covenant.



JLB
 
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BobRyan

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I don’t see any references or examples or commandments about how the Church is to keep the Sabbath under the New Covenant,

None of us want to break any of His commandments, so please show us how we are to keep the Sabbath, under the New Covenant.

JLB

Jeremiah states the New Covenant here -- Jeremiah 31:31-33 where we find the "LAW written on the heart" under the NEW Covenant.

Question for you -- How was Jeremiah and his readers "keeping the Sabbath"?

Did they do it "according to scripture" or "in rebellion against scripture" in your POV?

Did they think Jeremiah 31:31-33 was instructing them to break one of God's Commandments? Context matters in all cases.
 
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BobRyan

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Yes, Moses is preached in synagogues.

Does this scripture mean we are to attend synagogues to worship Jesus on the Sabbath?

It means both believing Jews and gentiles were doing that in Acts 13.. in Acts 17:4-5 in Acts 18:4 "Every Sabbath"

It means this was part of the "solution" according to Acts 15 -- not "the problem"

Please stick to answering the point.

It’s not a complicated point.
 
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BobRyan

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Can you show us in the New Testament where Jesus or the Apostles commanded us to gather on Saturday to worship Jesus?

Can you show us in the New Testament where Jesus or the Apostles told us not to "Take God's name in vain"?? WE all know it is not quoted even once in the NT.

(See? Making up ad hoc rules for deleting one of the commandments - does not help your argument in the long run)

Yet we are told in the NT "There REMAINS therefore a SABBATH rest for the people of God" where we find that "EVERY Sabbath" they attend worship service in the Synagogue to hear Gospel preaching Acts 18:4
 
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JLB777

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Jeremiah states the New Covenant here -- Jeremiah 31:31-33 where we find the "LAW written on the heart" under the NEW Covenant.

Question for you -- How was Jeremiah and his readers "keeping the Sabbath"?

Did they do it "according to scripture" or "in rebellion against scripture" in your POV?

Did they think Jeremiah 31:31-33 was instructing them to break one of God's Commandments? Context matters in all cases.
Can you show us in the New Testament where Jesus or the Apostles told us not to "Take God's name in vain"?? WE all know it is not quoted even once in the NT.

(See? Making up ad hoc rules for deleting one of the commandments - does not help your argument in the long run)

Yet we are told in the NT "There REMAINS therefore a SABBATH rest for the people of God" where we find that "EVERY Sabbath" they attend worship service in the Synagogue to hear Gospel preaching Acts 18:4

Bob,

I’m trying to learn about the Sabbath, and understand why some people insist that keeping the Sabbath is a matter of eternal life and eternal death.

There are no references or examples or commandments about how the Church is to keep the Sabbath under the New Covenant, or about a specific day of the week, that we are to gather and worship the Lord, in your posts.


Please just answer my question, if you can.


Here is my question again.



Can you show us scriptures in the New Testament where Jesus or the Apostles commanded us to gather on Saturday to worship Jesus?


Under the law, the children of Israel were instructed to put to death, those who violated the Sabbath.


14 You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. 15 Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. Exodus 31:14-15


Please don’t refer to the law of Moses, for instruction in the Sabbath requirements, because under the law, the Sabbath violater was to be executed.


Can you show us scriptures in the New Testament where Jesus or the Apostles commanded us to gather on Saturday to worship Jesus?




JLB
 
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Cribstyl

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Matthew 5 "do not even think that I came to reduce or abolish the LAW"
Mark 2:27 "the SABBATH was MADE for mankind"
Acts 18:4 "EVERY Sabbath" both Jews and gentiles gathered in the synagogue to hear Gospel preaching - and as they heard they were believing -- yet still meeting "every Sabbath".
Isaiah 66:23 for "all eternity after the cross" -- "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" - in the New Earth.
Acts 15 - the Christian church "solution" relies on the fact that "every Sabbath Moses is preached in the Synagogues"
Hebrew 4 'there REMAINS therefore a SABBATH rest for the people of God"

None of that is said in either OT or NT about "week-day-1"
Your posts often makes questionable claims. Whenever you get a direct response, you inject other sources who may collaborate your claims or not. You don't stand accountable to the claims that you fabricate. Everyone of those scriptures are been high-jacked to tell a false narrative.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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On the contrary LGW. We have the plain scripture from Paul in 2Cor3 that negates what you keep telling us. Thought you might like the Message version:

7-8 The Government of Death, its constitution chiseled on stone tablets, had a dazzling inaugural. Moses’ face as he delivered the tablets was so bright that day (even though it would fade soon enough) that the people of Israel could no more look right at him than stare into the sun. How much more dazzling, then, the Government of Living Spirit?

9-11 If the Government of Condemnation was impressive, how about this Government of Affirmation? Bright as that old government was, it would look downright dull alongside this new one. If that makeshift arrangement impressed us, how much more this brightly shining government installed for eternity?

Then I will post the NLV for you to contemplate:

7 The Law of Moses was written on stone and it brought death. But God’s shining-greatness was seen when it was given. When Moses took it to the Jews, they could not look at his face because of the bright light. But that bright light in his face began to pass away. 8 The new way of life through the Holy Spirit comes with much more shining-greatness. 9 If the Law of Moses, that leads to death, came in shining-greatness, how much greater and brighter is the light that makes us right with God? 10 The Law of Moses came with shining-greatness long ago. But that light is no longer bright. The shining-greatness of the New Way of Worship that brings us life is so much brighter. 11 The shining light that came with the Law of Moses soon passed away. But the new way of life is much brighter. It will never pass away.

As can plainly be seen the new and eternal covenant replaced the law that brought death. The new covenant is much brighter. It is the new way to Worship. Our new covenant not only shows us how to live, it assures us of eternal life. Thank you Lord Jesus. On the contrary LGW. We have the plain scripture from Paul in 2Cor3 that negates what you keep telling us. Thought you might like the Message version:

7-8 The Government of Death, its constitution chiseled on stone tablets, had a dazzling inaugural. Moses’ face as he delivered the tablets was so bright that day (even though it would fade soon enough) that the people of Israel could no more look right at him than stare into the sun. How much more dazzling, then, the Government of Living Spirit?

9-11 If the Government of Condemnation was impressive, how about this Government of Affirmation? Bright as that old government was, it would look downright dull alongside this new one. If that makeshift arrangement impressed us, how much more this brightly shining government installed for eternity?

Then I will post the NLV for you to contemplate:

7 The Law of Moses was written on stone and it brought death. But God’s shining-greatness was seen when it was given. When Moses took it to the Jews, they could not look at his face because of the bright light. But that bright light in his face began to pass away. 8 The new way of life through the Holy Spirit comes with much more shining-greatness. 9 If the Law of Moses, that leads to death, came in shining-greatness, how much greater and brighter is the light that makes us right with God? 10 The Law of Moses came with shining-greatness long ago. But that light is no longer bright. The shining-greatness of the New Way of Worship that brings us life is so much brighter. 11 The shining light that came with the Law of Moses soon passed away. But the new way of life is much brighter. It will never pass away.

As can plainly be seen the new and eternal covenant replaced the law that brought death. The new covenant is much brighter. It is the new way to Worship. Our new covenant not only shows us how to live, it assures us of eternal life. Thank you Lord Jesus.

Hi Bob, Nice to see you.

Your only saying the same old things that have already been addressed many times with scripture already. It is not the scriptures that are the problem it is your interpretation of the scriptures that is in error.

These scriptures are not talking about God's LAW being ABOLISHED but the condemnation and penalty of the law because of SIN through fogiveness in Christ under the NEW Covenant.

Let's look at the scriptures...

2 Corinthians 3:5-11

v5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think anything as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
v6, Who also hath made us able ministers of the New Testament (Covenant); not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter kills, but the spirit giveth life.
v7, But if the ministration of death, written and graven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not steadfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away.
v8, How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
v9, For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
v10, For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
v11, For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
v12, Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
v13, And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
v14, But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
v15, But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16, Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17, Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

Lets’ put it all together….

GLORY OF THE OLD COVENANT TO THE NEW COVENANT

v6-7 What is the ministration of death graven in stone? It is God’s Law (10 commandments; Exodus 20:1-17; 31:18; 32:16). Why were they called the ministration of death? Because God’s Law (10 commandments) give the knowledge of sin and righteousness but makes nothing perfect (James 2:11; 1 John 3:4; Romans 3:20; 7:7; Hebrews 7:19 ).
God’s Law only shows what sin is and if broken, the condemnation and penalty for sin is death (Romans 6:23).

v8-10
It was to teach us that we are all sinners in need of a saviour and that all the world may become guilty before God (Romans 3:10; 19; Isaiah 64:6).

v10-11 The Glory that fades away is the OLD COVENANT moving to the NEW COVENANT

v11-17
The glory of the one passes to the glory of the other (Law to Christ). This is the OLD COVENANT moving to the NEW COVENANT. It is the OLD COVENANT that has been done away not because it leads to the NEW COVENANT in Christ

God’s Law is perfect and is forever but makes nothing perfect it is the knowledge of good and evil; sin and righteousness (Ecclesiastes 3:14) but makes nothing perfect.

Faith that works by love through walking in the Spirit is the new ministration (NEW COVENANT) when someone is born again. This is the new covenant of the one written on stone (Old Covenant) to the promise of God's Law being written in the heart by LOVE in the NEW COVENANT (Hebrews 8:10-12; Romans 13:8-10; James 2:9-12).

The difference between the true Gospel and the counterfeit. The counterfeit Gospel is one that tries to separate God’s Law from the cross but without God’s Law no one has the knowledge of good and evil; sin and righteousness (James 2:11; 1 John 3:4; Romans 3:20; 7:7; Hebrews 7:19).

Hope this helps. You may need to rethink your interpretation of the scriptures.

................

CONCLUSION: 2COR 3 is talking about the OLD and NEW COVENANTS it is not saying God's LAW (10 Commandments) is ABOLISHED but that the OLD COVENANT gives way to the NEW COVENANT and the NEW COVENANT frees the sinner from condemnation and the penalty of SIN which is breaking God's Commandments.

................

SIN remains the same as it has always been in the NEW COVENANT and that is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Bob, I’m trying to learn about the Sabbath, and understand why some people insist that keeping the Sabbath is a matter of eternal life and eternal death.

No your not trying to learn about God's Sabbath. Your not being honest now are you JLB? We have had these discussions before haven't we? Why do you come here pretending that your trying to learn about God's Sabbath when you have clearly made up your mind against it? Your not being honest now are you?

Can you show us in the New Testament where Jesus or the Apostles commanded us to gather on Saturday to worship Jesus?
JLB

I will answer this question plainly with scripture if you can tell me where in God's WORD does it say that God's 4th Commandment has been ABOLSIHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a HOLY DAY? Scripture only please.

................

Which ever way you want to spin it. SIN is the transgression of God's LAW (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4). Only God's WORD is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the Commandments of God.

Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
 
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BobRyan

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Can you show us in the New Testament where Jesus or the Apostles commanded us to gather on Saturday to worship Jesus?
JLB

Matthew 5 "do not even think that I came to reduce or abolish the LAW"
Mark 2:27 "the SABBATH was MADE for mankind"
Acts 18:4 "EVERY Sabbath" both Jews and gentiles gathered in the synagogue to hear Gospel preaching - and as they heard they were believing -- yet still meeting "every Sabbath".
Isaiah 66:23 for "all eternity after the cross" -- "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" - in the New Earth.
Acts 15 - the Christian church "solution" relies on the fact that "every Sabbath Moses is preached in the Synagogues"
Hebrew 4 'there REMAINS therefore a SABBATH rest for the people of God"

None of that is said in either OT or NT about "week-day-1"

Your posts often makes questionable claims. Whenever you get a direct response, you inject other sources who may collaborate your claims or not.

Interesting response to the post of those Bible texts... do you find the texts 'questionable'??

Do you find that challenge at the end of those texts that says "None of that is said in either OT or NT about 'week-day-1' " questionable?

Everyone of those scriptures are been high-jacked .

Is the "mere quote of them" a high-jack since they don't appear to support your preference? is that sufficient cause to give rise to your strong objection to them?
 
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BobRyan

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Bob,
I’m trying to learn about the Sabbath, and understand why some people insist that keeping the Sabbath is a matter of eternal life and eternal death.

So then you knew that the creation of the World by God is detailed in the OT and that the Sabbath is one of the Ten Commandments - and that the OT is called "scripture" and "The Word of God" by the NT authors - correct?

There are no references or examples or commandments about how the Church is to keep the Sabbath under the New Covenant

The New Covenant is given in the Old Testament -- Jeremiah 31:31-33... you knew that ... right?

The New Covenant says
1. The LAW of God known to Jeremiah and his readers - is written on heart mind
2. Sins forgiven by God
3, Adoption into the family of God is for the one who accepts the New Covenant.

You knew that right?

And you knew that God said "the 7th day is the Sabbath of the LORD (YHWH)" Ex 20:10 - Jeremiah and his readers knew that - as we all agree... right?

God Himself says it is "about a specific day of the week, that we are to gather and worship the Lord," As He states in Lev 23:3

Just as in Lev 19:18 He said "Love your neighbor as yourself"
You knew that - right?


Here is my question again.
Can you show us scriptures in the New Testament where Jesus or the Apostles commanded us to gather on Saturday to worship Jesus?

Here is my question again..

Can you show us scriptures in the New Testament where Jesus or the Apostles commanded us not to take God's name in vain?

Under the law, the children of Israel were instructed to put to death, those who violated the Sabbath.

That is the civil law of the theocracy of Israel -- and ended when that theocracy ended - just as these non-SDA sources freely admit.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism

Such an easy Bible detail that both side of the debate - freely admit to it.
 
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BobRyan

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Bob,
I’m trying to learn about the Sabbath,
..
Can you show us scriptures in the New Testament where Jesus or the Apostles commanded us to gather on Saturday to worship Jesus?

Please don’t refer to the law of Moses, for instruction in the Sabbath

Can you show us that the Ten Commandments are deleted in the NT?
Can you show us that the NT authors told us to "ignore scripture"?
Can you show us the logic in asking to "learn about the Sabbath" while insisting on ignoring any scripture that mentions it?

In Matthew 22 Christ refers to the LAW of Moses
"Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5
"Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18

Was Jesus wrong?

Speaking of the OT - Paul says "ALL SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration from God AND is to be used for doctrine" 2 Tim 3:16 - was Paul wrong

Jesus said
Matthew 19
if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said,
“‘You shall not murder,’ Exodus 20
You shall not commit adultery,’ Exodus 20
You shall not steal,’ Exodus 20
You shall not bear false witness,’ Exodus 20
19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ Exodus 20
and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ” Lev 19:18

All of it from "The Law of Moses"
Was Jesus wrong?
Is Jesus' teaching to be "rejecting" by anyone wanting to "learn about the Sabbath"??

Jesus shows that acceptance of the foundation-command in Lev 19:18 regarding man's duty to his neighbor -- did not "delete" the commandments in the TEN - that are based on it.
 
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BobRyan

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Matthew 5 "do not even think that I came to reduce or abolish the LAW"
Mark 2:27 "the SABBATH was MADE for mankind"
Acts 18:4 "EVERY Sabbath" both Jews and gentiles gathered in the synagogue to hear Gospel preaching - and as they heard they were believing -- yet still meeting "every Sabbath".

Isaiah 66:23 for "all eternity after the cross" -- "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" - in the New Earth.

Acts 15 - the Christian church "solution" relies on the fact that "every Sabbath Moses is preached in the Synagogues"
Hebrew 4 'there REMAINS therefore a SABBATH rest for the people of God"

None of that is said in either OT or NT about "week-day-1"

All of those texts either in the NT or speaking specifically of post-cross events.

Bob,
I’m trying to learn about the Sabbath,
..
Can you show us scriptures in the New Testament where Jesus or the Apostles commanded us to gather on Saturday to worship Jesus?


Matthew 5 "do not even think that I came to reduce or abolish the LAW"
Mark 2:27 "the SABBATH was MADE for mankind"
Acts 18:4 "EVERY Sabbath" both Jews and gentiles gathered in the synagogue to hear Gospel preaching - and as they heard they were believing -- yet still meeting "every Sabbath".

Isaiah 66:23 for "all eternity after the cross" -- "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" - in the New Earth.

Acts 15 - the Christian church "solution" relies on the fact that "every Sabbath Moses is preached in the Synagogues"
Hebrew 4 'there REMAINS therefore a SABBATH rest for the people of God"

None of that is said in either OT or NT about "week-day-1"

All of those texts are either NT texts or they speak of distinctively NT post-Cross ages where the saints are all keeping Sabbath.
 
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klutedavid

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1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God"
Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"
1 John 5:2-3 "this IS the LOVE of God that we KEEP His Commandments"
Eph 6:2 the 5th commandment "is the FIRST commandment WITH a promise"

Not exactly "unknown news" to these non-SDA groups

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism

And we all know it.
Still no support for the idea that, celebrating resurrection Sunday causes people to break the commandments!
 
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BobRyan

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The SDA interpretation follows an earlier traditional reading of the text, where the ten commandments have priority.
.

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God"
Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"
1 John 5:2-3 "this IS the LOVE of God that we KEEP His Commandments"
Eph 6:2 the 5th commandment "is the FIRST commandment WITH a promise"

Not exactly "unknown news" to these non-SDA groups

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism

And we all know it.

Still no support for the idea that, celebrating resurrection Sunday causes people to break the commandments!

You are not quoting any claim that I made. Try quoting me.
 
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BNR32FAN

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PART 1/2

THERE IS NOTHING NEW UNDER THE SUN - GOD'S WORD vs TRADITIONS OF MEN


The very same topics that we discuss here was also discussed in the day of Jesus. The mainstream preachers of Christ's time all claimed to be Children of God because their claim was that they were the Children of Abraham right? This was their claim to being God's people.

JOHN 8:33-45

33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how say thou, Ye shall be made free?

They claimed belief on the God of Abraham, they claimed to be in bondage to no man. But what did Jesus tell them...............?

34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever commits sin is the servant of sin.

39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

There is more on this engagement between Jesus and the Mainstream God of Abraham preachers of His time in John 8.

Certainly the Pharisees studied the bible as it existed then. AS did Jesus.

Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Yet these two factions, Jesus and the Mainstream preachers of His time had almost opposite understandings of the Bible.

It is fair to say not all Jews of that time had the same understanding as the Mainstream Preachers.

Luke 1:5-6 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.

6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

So there seems to be a trend here.

The Mainstream Preachers claimed to be God's people, they read God's Words, yet they "Transgressed the Commandments of God by their own doctrines and traditions." (Matthew 15:3-9)

Yet there is no indication that Zacharias or Jesus did this and followed them.

So we have one example of understanding that was gained by study in obedience to the instructions in God's Word, ( Zacharias and Jesus)

And another example of study in disobedience to the instructions of God's Word. (Mainstream preachers of that time)

There were more than just Zacharias.

Matthew 2:1-2 1, Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,

2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.

Here is another example of people who had a completely different understanding than the Mainstream preachers of that time. Is it wrong to assume that they, like Zacharias, also studied in obedience to the instruction?

And Peter, which side of this topic did he fall on?

Acts 5:32-33 33, And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

33 When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them.

Now why was it that the Jews sought to persecute Jesus and the prophets? It was because they refused to obey the instruction of God, and created their own instructions, and the other example did not.

So fast forward to today. We have a Mainstream Christian teaching that "Transgresses the Commandments of God by their own traditions and doctrines."

This is not a judgment, rather, a simple fact.

It is Mainstream Christian Tradition to transgress God's Sabbath Commandment and replace it with the Catholic Sabbath (Sunday worship). It is Mainstream Christian Tradition to create images of God in the likeness of some long haired men's shampoo model, transgressing the first and greatest commandment.
It is Mainstream Christian Tradition to transgress God's Food Laws, and create their own definition of clean and unclean.

So it seems that even today, if a person studies in obedience to God's simple instructions he see's the scripture one way.

If a person studies scripture in disobedience following the traditions and teachings of man in place of God's Word and to God's simple instructions, he sees the scripture in another way.

I believe what Peter taught, that the Holy Spirit (Spirit of Truth) is given to those who do not "Transgress the Commandments of God by their own religious doctrines and traditions.

But I also know from Peter and Jesus that this belief will infuriate "many" who come in Christ's/God's name.

23 "When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them."

Matthew 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endures to the end shall be saved."

My hope is that you might consider these words and understand.

John 3:19
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. (Is it evil or righteous to transgress the commandments of God by doctrines and traditions of men?)

20 For every one that doeth evil (Transgress God's Commandments by their own Traditions) hates the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

Is this why the Mainstream preachers of Peters time set about to kill or silence Peter, so he wouldn't expose their transgression of God's Commandments?

21 But he that does truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest,.(let your light shine) that they are wrought in God.

So a circle complete once again. Those who live a doctrine created (wrought) by God have a different understanding than those who live a doctrine created by man who follow the traditions of man. The above was shared with me recently by a friend. I hope it was a blessing to you as it was for me.

Now the important question is who should we obey God or man...............?

The Jews (Pharisees/Lawyers) had placed so many restrictions on the Sabbath commandment through there man made traditions that it had become a burden to the people and was nearly impossible to keep (Luke 13:14; John 5:10-18; 9:16; etc.).

This was never how the Sabbath was to be kept. What did Jesus teach us about the Sabbath? Let's look to the Word of God.....

1. It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56)
2. Jesus made the Sabbath for all mankind (Mark 2:27)
3. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28)
4. If you do not believe and follow God you cannot enter His Sabbath rest (Hebrews 4)
5. It is one of God’s 10 commandments we break it we are guilty or breaking all (James 2:8-12)
6. Breaking it is sin (1 John 3:4)
7. God’s true followers keep it Holy as God commanded (Rev 14:12; Rev 22:14; Eze 20:20)
8. Jesus is our example and he kept the Sabbath (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matt 16:24; 1 Cor 11:1; Eph 5:1-21; Pet 2:20-22)
9. The Apostle kept the Sabbath (Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Rev 1:10)

God’s Law in the NC is written on our hearts it is through love and it is love that fulfills God’s Law in us as we walk not after the flesh but after the spirit and is why Jesus says f you love me keep my commandments. (John 14:15; John 15:10). If we knowingly and willfully break one of God’s commandments we commit sin (1 John 3:4). This includes the 7th Day Sabbath which Jesus made for us and commands us to keep as a holy day.

God gives us the other six days to labor and work and do whatever we like. We worship God everyday but the 7th Day God says is a Holy day that God has made for His people. Jesus is the maker of this day. It is the "Lords Day" and God has commanded us to keep it Holy (Mark 2:27-28; Exodus 20:8-11). The Sabbath is a sign that we worship the only true God of creation (Ezekiel 20:12). We follow Jesus because we love him (John 14:15;15:10). Love is the fulfilling of God's Law in us as we walk by faith in the Spirit.

.........................................................................................................................

PART 2/2 GOD'S WORD vs TRADITIONS OF MEN LINKED CLICK ME

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NOTE: PLEASE NO FLAMING OR GOADING; THIS IS A DISCUSSION THREAD ONLY FOR
SHARING GOD'S WORD IN LOVE; FRIENDLY DISCUSSION PLEASE!
.......................................................................................................................

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.

How often to you sacrifice a goat?
 
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klutedavid

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1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God"
Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"
1 John 5:2-3 "this IS the LOVE of God that we KEEP His Commandments"
Eph 6:2 the 5th commandment "is the FIRST commandment WITH a promise"

Not exactly "unknown news" to these non-SDA groups

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism

And we all know it.



You are not quoting any claim that I made. Try quoting me.
Surely you believe that Sunday worship is the mark of the beast?
 
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