If the United States is Babylon...

[Stonehaven]

I'm quoting you! You said, "the US establishment are Christian killers, k just like the Jews and the Romans before them."
I'm not twisting anything - those are your words. And I might add, that statement is also anti-Semitic. Your assessment of Babylon being America is off, it is the entire world system that came out of Babylon, the white. That was its origin.But think what you will.

Wrong. Look at the original post, and you will clearly see that the "US establishment are Christ-killers (Not Christian killers, as you suggest) just like the Jews and Romans before them".

The evidence is loud and clear and irrefutable, if you bothered to read it.

But rather than a mistake, I am more inclined to believe that you have deliberately LIED to confound, obfuscate, and sabotage this conversation.

John 8:44-47
44 For you are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a LIE, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a LIAR and the father of it. 45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me? 47 He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.

So, it's obvious to anyone that you belong to Satan, not Christ - Since you are a Liar, first and foremost.

 

[AlasBabylon]

That God has foreordained the Crucifixion of Jesus (Revelation 13:8) doesn't serve to absolve the Jews (Such as Caiaphas and Judas) nor the Romans (Such as Pilate and his wife) who have used their own freewill to crucify Him.

They are still Guilty and culpable, notwithstanding God's foreordination of his own death on the Cross.

For it is they who are Guilty of His crucifixion, not God, since he is not directly to blame for his own death on the Cross.

From the cross, Jesus forgave the Romans who crucified Him because " they know not what they do."

That is, the Romans were pagans and totally ignorant of who Christ was and how the antichrist
Edomite-jews were manipulating them to kill Israel's Messiah and true King, the God of Israel incarnate.

Luke 19:27, the end of Jesus' symbolic parable, tells us those antichrist Edomite-jews.... who shouted to the Roman governor, that they had no king except Caesar and to crucify Jesus and let His blood be upon them and their children... would be compelled to return for their due punishment.

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[Ronald]

Stonehaven,
You must be born again to be able to discern scripture properly. You can receive the Holy Spirit, if you repent of your sins and ask for forgiveness. Many people try to understand the Bible without this spiritual transformation, but they can only get a superficial (at best) understanding ... If not distorting it with every turn of the page.

 

[Ronald]

Since, on the contrary, it's entirely in your own interest that America should be destroyed, or reduced to the size of Montenegro in the aftermath of the Tribulation

America will be destroyed along with the rest of the world system.

So, among the few survivors of the Tribulation there will be fewer Americans than any other Christian nation, which means that they would no longer rule the world after the Tribulation, but the few Americans left would be subordinate, and subjected to the authority of other Christian nations.

Your eschatology is way off. Christ will rule the world when He returns -- dah!

Since there will be more Canadians, Russians, Finns, Norwegians, Danes, Germans, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Italians, and Greeks and Israelis than any Americans amidst the few survivors

You don't get what Judgment Day means. All people who do not have faith in Christ will be destroyed.

Once God is done with America, it will never again hold the reins of political power, but will be subject to the authority of other countries instead.

Again, where are you getting your theology? Was this in Berlin where you reside?
I can see where the anti-Semitism comes from. Sins are sometimes passed down three generations.

Since God will share the spoils of victory among his people, which are the "few" survivors mentioned in Isaiah 24:5-6.

God will share the spoils? LOL what a ridiculous notion. God created everything. He owns everything and provides for us. He is not concerned about material things.

This is the future geopolitical map of Europe and the entire world, which is the underlying basis of Eschatology, and Theology of the End Times.

WOW! You are deceived. Listen, wherever you heard this taught, find another church ... there is still time and hope for you.

Here are a few verses for you to digest. Still, one needs the Holy Spirit to discern scripture, so I don't know if you will quite understand.

"but - As the Lord lives, who brought up the sons of Israel from the land of the north and from all the countries where He had banished them. For I will restore them to their own land which I gave to their fathers." Jer. 16:15
That prophetic verse was fulfilled in 1948 when Israel became a nation and then in 1967, Jerusalem was recaptured.

"Say to them, Thus says the Lord GOD. - Behold, I will take the sons of Israel from among the nations where they have gone, and I will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land." Ezek. 37:21

And here is what will take place:

"And it shall happen in the day that I will make Jerusalem a very heavy stone for all peoples; all who would heave it away will surely be cut to pieces, though all nations of the earth are gathered against it." Zech.12:3 "heavy stone" = stumbling block
This hasn't happened in history, but it is happening right now. Many nations are squabbling about Jerusalem -- especially since Trump announced that it would be the capital. Prior to that, they have been surrounded by enemies. These enemies are the beast - Islam, not some revised Roman Empire.

"Neither their silver nor their gold
Will be able to deliver them
On the day of the LORD'S wrath;
And all the earth will be devoured
In the fire of His jealousy,
For He will make a complete end,
Indeed a terrifying one,
Of all the inhabitants of the earth." Zeph. 1:18
When the Church is raptured, the remaining populations of the world will be destroyed, apart from the remnant Israel (Rom. 11) who will be protected and put to the final test.

"It shall be in that day that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem." Zech. 12:9

Here's a bonus for those who come against Jerusalem:

"And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth." Zech. 14:12
That is a description of the effects of a nuclear blast incinerating people's flesh before they drop to the ground written thousands of years ago! Other translations of "consume" are melt or dissolve.

I would warn you or anyone of any nation not to participate in attacking Israel during the end times -- FOR YOU WILL BE DESTROYED!

REMEMBER THIS: "AND I WILL BLESS THEM THAT BLESS THEE, AND CURSE HIM THAT CURSETH THEE: AND IN THEE SHALL ALL FAMILIES OF THE EARTH BE BLESSED." GEN. 12:3

 

[AlasBabylon]

America will be destroyed along with the rest of the world system.

I would warn you or anyone of any nation not to participate in attacking Israel during the end times -- FOR YOU WILL BE DESTROYED!

REMEMBER THIS: "AND I WILL BLESS THEM THAT BLESS THEE, AND CURSE HIM THAT CURSETH THEE: AND IN THEE SHALL ALL FAMILIES OF THE EARTH BE BLESSED." GEN. 12:3

Just make sure you know who is who in God's end of the age passion play. Otherwise you might wind up allying with antichrist Edom who promotes sodomite parades in Jerusalem. Ezekiel 36:5

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[Mountainmanbob]

And God says come out of her my people...
Where the heck could we go?

Grab your floatie and hit the closest coast.
M-Bob

 

[Stonehaven]

Just make sure you know who is who in God's end of the age passion play. Otherwise you might wind up allying with antichrist Edom who promotes sodomite parades in Jerusalem. Ezekiel 36:5

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But I don't presume that this is some mistake on their part, but it's done deliberately on purpose.

As they are clearly intent on twisting everything, by saying that the Israelis are antichrist, or YHVH is an enemy of Israel etc.

However, the American establishment are mostly to blame, but they must know that their fate is already sealed. Revelation 18

However, these are nothing but stalling tactics, yet they know the inexorable outcome of this struggle

 

[Abraxos]

Also if as you say the 10 kings are the 10 regional groups of the world, then how can anything be left when God deals with those 10 kings. There would be nothing left bro.

At that stage when these 10 kings give their kingdoms / regions to one man (Rev 17:12-13), that would be a sure indicator of the Great Tribulation as Jesus warned. Mass depopulation some speak of through Agenda 21 would appear to be a reality after-all. Some Christians however believe that the bride will not go through the tribulation but those left behind (the tribulation saints Rev 7:14) will have to endure though it. Though that may seem like a hopeless situation for them, it is written that prominent people will arise at this dark time to lead.

In Daniel 7, the first three beasts (Daniel 7:3-6) represent the ancient empires of Babylon (lion), Medo-Persia (bear), and Greece (leopard). The fourth beast, or fourth "king"/"kingdom" (Daniel 7:17,23), represents the ancient Roman empire. And the ten horns/kings which come out of it (Daniel 7:7,24) could represent ten major kingdoms/nations today which came out the former territory of the Roman empire, which consisted not only of Western Europe, but also the Middle East and North Africa. These ten nations could be Germany, the U.K., France, Italy, Spain, Turkey, Egypt, Iraq, Algeria, and Syria. The ten part-iron/part-clay toes of Daniel 2:42 could represent the same thing as the ten horns of Daniel 7:7. The Europeans could be the iron, and the Arabs and Turks could be the clay. In Daniel 2:43, the inability of the iron to mix with the clay could represent how, for example, there are many Turks living in Germany, but they remain separated in ghettoes within German cities. Similarly, there are many Arab Algerians living in France, but they remain separated in ghettoes within French cities.

But despite this social separation, which could endure indefinitely, the people of Western Europe on the one hand, and the people of the Middle East and North Africa on the other, could still one day put aside their political separation and become united into one federation. For Daniel 2:42 refers to the ten as a singular "kingdom". The person who will bring this about could be the future Antichrist.

The arising of the "little" horn (Daniel 7:8, Daniel 8:9), which is "diverse" from the ten major nations (Daniel 7:24), could mean that the future Antichrist will arise from a little country. And the little horn arising from "among" the ten major nations (Daniel 7:8) could mean that the Antichrist's country's territory used to be part of the Roman empire. And before that, it was part of one of the four Diadochian Greek kingdoms which succeeded the Greek empire of Alexander the Great (Daniel 8:8-9,21-25). The territory of these four kingdoms stretched from Greece over to Iran, and down into Egypt. So the Antichrist could come from the Middle East. He could be an Arab who will come from the little country of Lebanon, from the modern city of Tyre (Ezekiel 28:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:4).

The Antichrist could start out by claiming to be a Baathist. After becoming the leader of Lebanon, he could peacefully gain control of a Baathist federation of three of the ten major nations (Daniel 7:24): Egypt, "toward the south" of Lebanon (Daniel 8:9), and Iraq and Syria, "toward the east" of Lebanon (Daniel 8:9). This federation could also include the minor nation of a United Palestine, that is, a defeated Israel, "the pleasant land" (Daniel 8:9).

This Baathist federation could be put together in our future by an Iraqi Baathist General who could completely defeat and occupy Israel and Egypt with a huge Iraqi Army (Daniel 11:15-17; in verse 17 the original Hebrew word translated as "daughter" is "bath"), but who could then mysteriously disappear (Daniel 11:19) shortly before the Antichrist arises on the world stage (Daniel 11:21-45). Years later, when the Antichrist gains control of all ten of the major nations, he could appoint kings over them (Revelation 17:12) who will defer to him (Revelation 17:13), like how when Napoleon gained control of different nations, he appointed kings over them who would defer to him.

Daniel 8:9-13 concerns the end-times while the four beasts and the 10 horns + the little horn concern ancient history. The beast with 10 horns that comes up out of the sea in Revelation 13 cannot be the same 10 horns that Daniel saw. The primer here was the characteristics for the 'little horn.' The key context from the very next verse from Daniel 7:7 shows that a little horn arose among the other horns and it uprooted 3 horns revealing to us a primer to identifying this little horn. From a historical context, the Roman Empire collapsed in 476 AD, and from there the Western Roman Empire was divided up into 10 kingdoms from the roaming barbarians.

Of the 10 tribes, three lost their power and significance on the world stage specifically by the growing power of the Trinitarian doctrine. The Heruli, Ostrogoths and Vandals were religiously Arian Christians who persecuted Trinitarian Christians for centuries; Yet with the growing influence of the trinity doctrine these three tribes were finally subdued, and this made way for the rise of the papacy. This historical fact appears to be in line with what was foretold by Daniel 7:8, 20 & 24, and consistent with the characteristics of the 'little horn.' Interestingly, the smallest country in the world is the Vatican City.

 

[Stone Chapel]

The Great Tribulation/Judgment Day will be a test of our faith, but we will persevere through till the last trumpet. What comes after that are the seven bowls of God's wrath for THE ENTIRE WORLD WHO REMAINS.
As far as I discern, Romans 11 tells us a remnant Israel will be saved and protected during this time. But all nations who come against Jerusalem will be destroyed, including the USA if we do. I would imagine if Christians are resserected and the Holy Spirit is taken out of the way, all Hell will brake loose on the planet. Nothing good will remain, for the RESTRAINER will no longer restrain mans evil.,Left to himself, man will destroy himself and insanity will take over. Imagine gather all nations to war against God? That is the ultimate evil act and insane.

This comment is already an act of war.

 

[Stone Chapel]

There is already a war against God and the USA is leading the enemy attacks.

Surely you can see that since WW2 [during which the USA allied with antichrist Bolsheviks to kill Christians], the US government has fostered and promoted spiritual and moral degeneracy that is totally contrary to God's commandments and God's Biblical standard of righteousness that for millennia our Christian forefathers had codified into their civil laws [as God had intended it.]

European nations also constantly attack God. Former British Prime Minister Cameron infamously said that Britain wanted to export homosexual "marriage" to all the world. The current heretic pope who winks at sodomites in the priesthood and espouses the belief that no matter one's religion, everyone who is "nice" will "go to heaven" is another example.

God arranged for Babylon and its ally Edom to destroy Jerusalem and the temple as punishment for this same type of sinful rebellion against God. At the end of the age, God sends Gog/Magog's global hordes as punishment against God's people who are living in sin. You'd think by now Bible-believing Christians would understand this repeated cause and effect.

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Thank you for this comment; but this war is invisible, even by Cold War standards.

At least, everybody seemed to know that the Cold War existed; but nobody knows about Armageddon yet, except for the politicians and religious establishment.

So far, this war has been invisible, but exactly when it enters the public domain - To be made known to the rest of the world - only God knows.

 

[Stone Chapel]

Your whole theology is screwed up.
You say the important thing is who killed Christ?
He sacrificed Himself That was His plan from before the foundation of the world.
Wow, its as if you think that day was decided by man. God is sovereign. That was His mission, to die for our sins. H E L L O!

Quit stalling. These are nothing but stalling tactics.

Nothing you can do or say will prevent the destruction of the United States. Revelation 18

 

[Stone Chapel]

Luke 19:27, the end of Jesus' symbolic parable, tells us those antichrist Edomite-jews.... who shouted to the Roman governor, that they had no king except Caesar and to crucify Jesus and let His blood be upon them and their children... would be compelled to return for their due punishment.

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What punishment are you talking about?

Please clarify.

 

[Stone Chapel]

The descendants of Jacob/Israel and the mixed descendants of Esau/Edom were enemies in the Old Testament. In New Testament times the Jacob/Esau conflict continued on a new ironic level. In the 2nd century BC, Esau/Edom lost a war against Jacob/Israel and feigned conversion so they could live in Judea. Per Josephus, the Edomites became "Jews" en masse. Herod was an Edomite-jew. When one understand this racial factor, the division among "Jews" over Jesus Christ can be viewed on a totally different racial level. The racial conflict between Israel and Edom has continued to this day and has been the undertow of much international conflict.

Do you mean to say that Jesus' "crossing swords" with the Pharisees - And the fact they have conspired to kill him...John 12:49-51 - is to be seen in terms of "racial difference", and racial conflict between Edomite Jews and the real descendants of Jacob?

 

[Ronald]

Quit stalling. These are nothing but stalling tactics.

Nothing you can do or say will prevent the destruction of the United States. Revelation 18

I'm not in charge, God is. How could I prevent the Great Tribulation? I've been praying for it, in anticipation of the Second Coming for twenty years. I have believed ( and could be wrong) that this will take take place within one generation of when Israel became a nation in 1948. According to David in Psalm 90:10, one generation is 70 years ( unless you are strong and. Then maybe 80). So 2018 may be the year, but make no mistake, it will be judgment on the entire world, every nation.
Yes, the U.S. is corrupt, it has been so for a while. In this generation we've seen moral depravity and values descend into the gutter. In the 60's, we saw the drug revolution kick off. We followed the Beatles, I was a hippie too. Pot became popular, free love ( sex). In the 70s we legalized abortion and to date have aborted 50 million. Homosexuality marched along and what was once consider mental disorder, was becoming accepted and now of course the straw that will break the camels back, Gay Marriage legalized. This was done by the SCOTUS, not our legislative branch. Most Americans voted against it. The GAY community only amount to 2.3 %, but they have a loud voice and have persisted in their fight. American caved partially but it was SCOTUS WHO did, one judge actually - a foolish move, a coward, couldn't take the heat. Hell have to live with it.
Do you remember TV shows and movies 60-70 years ago? They were wholesome, clean, now they are polluted with sex and violence and vulgarity.
And now we have a swamp in government filled with lobbyists who seek material gains. We have lies, scandals, cover-ups to the highest levels - Obama, FBI, DOJ, all protecting their chosen nominee, who created a false a dosier, colluded with Russia, ran a laundromat foundation, illegal server and a long list of crimes. Hillary should be in prison.

Yes, judgment is coming for the US, but it is not directed at one specific nation, it is directed at a ALL THOSE WHO REJECTED JESUS.

 

[AlasBabylon]

What punishment are you talking about?

Please clarify.

“What then should I do with Jesus who is called Christ?” Pilate asked. They all answered, “Crucify Him!” “Why?” asked Pilate. “What has He done wrong?” But they shouted all the louder, “Crucify Him! When Pilate saw that he was accomplishing nothing, but that instead a riot was breaking out, he took water and washed his hands before the crowd. “I am innocent of this man’s blood,” he said. “You shall bear the responsibility.” The people answered, “His blood be on us and on our children!” So Pilate released Barabbas to them. But he had Jesus flogged and handed Him over to be crucified.

Matthew 27:22-26

It was the day of Preparation for the Passover, about the sixth hour. And Pilate said to the Jews, “Here is your King!” At this, they shouted, “Away with Him! Away with Him! Crucify Him!” “Shall I crucify your King?” Pilate asked. “We have no king but Caesar,” replied the chief priests. Then Pilate handed Jesus over to be crucified, and the soldiers took Him away.

John 19:14-16


Jesus' parable in Luke 19 relates to this.

But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, we will not have this man to reign over us.

The last verse, Luke 19:27, tells us in cryptic parable form, the due punishment for the murder of Christ [God's law for murder is death.]

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[Stone Chapel]

“What then should I do with Jesus who is called Christ?” Pilate asked. They all answered, “Crucify Him!” “Why?” asked Pilate. “What has He done wrong?” But they shouted all the louder, “Crucify Him! When Pilate saw that he was accomplishing nothing, but that instead a riot was breaking out, he took water and washed his hands before the crowd. “I am innocent of this man’s blood,” he said. “You shall bear the responsibility.” The people answered, “His blood be on us and on our children!” So Pilate released Barabbas to them. But he had Jesus flogged and handed Him over to be crucified.

Matthew 27:22-26

It was the day of Preparation for the Passover, about the sixth hour. And Pilate said to the Jews, “Here is your King!” At this, they shouted, “Away with Him! Away with Him! Crucify Him!” “Shall I crucify your King?” Pilate asked. “We have no king but Caesar,” replied the chief priests. Then Pilate handed Jesus over to be crucified, and the soldiers took Him away.

John 19:14-16


Jesus' parable in Luke 19 relates to this.

But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, we will not have this man to reign over us.

The last verse, Luke 19:27, tells us in cryptic parable form, the due punishment for the murder of Christ [God's law for murder is death.]

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Was destruction of the Jewish temple (70 AD), and exile of the Jews from the Holy land a "due punishment" for the murder of Christ?

Was the Nazi Holocaust "due punishment" for the murder of Christ ?

Or is the punishment still pending?

 

[AlasBabylon]

Do you mean to say that Jesus' "crossing swords" with the Pharisees - And the fact they have conspired to kill him...John 12:49-51 - is to be seen in terms of "racial difference", and racial conflict between Edomite Jews and the real descendants of Jacob?

Esau/Edom and Jacob/Israel were fraternal twin brothers. But Esau sinned by despising his inheritance, selling this birthright [as firstborn] for lunch [for mammon] and marrying forbidden foreign women, forever altering his bloodline and alienating him from God. God loved Jacob [Israel] but hated Esau [Edom.]
Malachi 1:2-4 & Romans 9:13

In the OT, Israelites and Edomites were enemies. Edomites [Amalekite tribe] attacked Israelites after Israel left Egypt. Later, God commanded King Saul to destroy ALL the Edomite Amalekites. Because Saul disobeyed God and did not kill ALL, God took the kingdom from Saul and gave it to David. Ironically, it was an Edomite who claimed to have killed an already wounded King Saul. He came to David bragging about it, hoping to win brownie points. But David told the Edomite, "how dare you touch God's anointed" and had the Edomite promptly executed. In the book of Esther, the villain, Haman, is an Edomite prince.

Per Josephus, in the 2nd century BC, Edomites lost a war against Israelites. Israel's prince/high priest offered to allow the Edomites to live in the kingdom of Israel [Judea] if they "converted." So Edomites feigned "conversion" en masse so they could live in Judea. Thereafter Edomites became [fake] "Jews." Same Edomite fake "Jews" in Revelation 3:7-9.

In 37BC, Edomite-jew Herod allied with Rome to conquer Jerusalem. Rome declared Herod King of Judea. Edomite Herod proceeded to murder the remaining Israelite royal heirs. Herod totally tore down the second temple [the one Cyrus had decreed built] so he could rebuild his own temple, putting his own people in charge. Herod tried to destroy God's Temple made without hands by trying the murder the Christ child when he murdered the babes of Bethlehem.

One can not truly understand the OT, the NT or even current events without understanding this historic conflict between Israel and Edom that continues to this day.

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[AlasBabylon]

Was destruction of the Jewish temple (70 AD), and exile of the Jews from the Holy land a "due punishment" for the murder of Christ?

Was the Nazi Holocaust "due punishment" for the murder of Christ ?

Or is the punishment still pending?

The way I interpret Luke 19:27, the enemies of Christ will be compelled to return to the scene of their crimes for their due punishment.

Knowing that those antichrist enemies are Edomite [fake] Jews gives one a special understanding of the immensity of their crimes [see my last post about Edom.]


A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.

Per the parable, the final punishment happens when the king returns.

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[Stone Chapel]

The way I interpret Luke 19:27, the enemies of Christ will be compelled to return to the scene of their crimes for their due punishment.

Knowing that those antichrist enemies are Edomite [fake] Jews gives one a special understanding of the immensity of their crimes [see my last post about Edom.]


A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.

Per the parable, the final punishment happens when the king returns.

.

But if there are Fake Jews there are Fake Christians, also.

Presuming that Christ will return as a Christian instead of a Jew, then the same must also apply to the Edomite (Fake) Jews who should therefore return as Fake Christians instead of Jews ------> Matthew 7:21-23, 25:41-46

But are there any Fake Jews at all amidst the Modern Jewish diaspora (Ashkenazim and Sephardim)?

To return to the scene of their crimes means that those Fake Christians/Jews must also be in close proximity to the King as stated in Luke 19:27.

But close "proximity" might be geopolitical as opposed to a geographical proximity.

"Proximity" might well be psychological "familiarity" as opposed to geographical proximity; in which case, the Modern antichrist enemies are more likely to be "Familiar Christians" than the Unfamiliar Jews who now reside in Christian countries, and even less so the Jews in Israel.

 

[Andrew Jeremiah]

It


Please clarify

Type and shadow.

The type of Christ is in the Shewbread - I am the Bread of Life, and the like.

Here...the OT Law is type and shadow of the Coming Holy Spirit. It is HIM God promised to "put in" our inward parts, not vocabulary - Him. The Holy Spirit.

Jeremiah 31:33 (KJV)
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.