Why do People Fight so hard for Their Own Free Will ?

MDC

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God is in control of the "big things" like our (humanities) general path, or ultimate destination, but not all the "little things", on the way of getting there, that cannot affect (the) getting there...

God Bless!
And where in scripture is that taught?
 
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MDC

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Just another man exalting man instead of God : why do these people hate God so much : They are so offended if God is in control of all things : especially them : Seems to be just the pride of man : though I don't know what they have to be proud about since they can do nothing !
Yes offended indeed and arrogant to think that man, a creature, has any say whatsoever on how God deals with His creation. I have yet to see how they interpret Romans 9.
 
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Neogaia777

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And where in scripture is that taught?
Throughout scripture... when you reconcile the scriptures that talk about man's (free) will and predestination of or by God...

Guess some of you don't know how to do that though...?

God Bless!
 
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MDC

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God created the "possibility" "for us to choose evil", which of course, we did, and is "in control of the (contingency) plans" (his will) he already had surrounding that (possibility)...

God Bless!
Not sure why you assume this if it’s not scriptural
 
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MDC

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Throughout scripture... when you reconcile the scriptures that talk about man's (free) will and predestination of or by God...

Guess some of you don't know how to do that though...?

God Bless!
Nah this is mans sinful tendency. To elevate himself as god. Definitely not scriptural
 
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Neogaia777

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Not sure why you assume this if it’s not scriptural
Look I'm not gonna dig up "all the scriptures" and connect "all" the dots for you...

But, if you wish to provide me with some or the scriptures that say it's absolute either way, I'll try to explain it, without it turning into an entire book, on the subject, K...?

God Bless!
 
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MDC

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Quite the opposite. Scripture clearly presents mankind as having free will. Hence the requirement to obey the Gospel.

And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Mk 16:15,16)

Only if sinners can freely respond to the Gospel could something be stated in this manner. So we see it illustrated on the day of Pentecost when Peter preached to all the Jews gathered in Jerusalem (Acts 2):

36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. [THE GOSPEL]

37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? [THE CONVICTION]

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
[THE COMMANDMENT TO OBEY THE GOSPEL]

41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. [THE FREE RESPONSE]
Gods commanding doesn’t equate to mans ability. You make the same God dishonoring claims as Pelagius. So amazed how this heresy is so widely accepted today. And how ignorant so many who promote free will sovereignty are blind to the fact they hold and believe this heresy
 
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MDC

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K, again, you explain to me why you think God is in control of "every little thing", and I'll respond, K...?
Nah you are the one who said God doesn’t. So you prove from scripture God isn’t in control of every little thing
 
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Neogaia777

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Gods commanding doesn’t equate to mans ability. You make the same God dishonoring claims as Pelagius. So amazed how this heresy is so widely accepted today. And how ignorant so many who promote free will sovereignty are blind to the fact they hold and believe this heresy
I see no scripture in there...?

Guess that must be your (own) (man's) reasoning or logic then, right...?

How is it God dishonoring again...?

Cause I think your point of view is...

God Bless!
 
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MDC

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So you just admitted that God is not responsible for the wicked deeds of men.

All Bible-believing Christians will acknowledge that God USES evil men for His own purposes. But He compels no one to sin and do evil. And that is exactly what you just admitted. Which means that God does not *decree* (order, command, authorize, demand) evil.
God has ordained and decreed all things, including evil
 
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MDC

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I see no scripture in there...?

Guess that must be your (own) (man's) reasoning or logic then, right...?

How is it God dishonoring again...?

Cause I think your point of view is...

God Bless!
Reread the thread and many other threads relating to this topic. I’m sure I’m casting pearls before swine
 
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Neogaia777

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Nah you are the one who said God doesn’t. So you prove from scripture God isn’t in control of every little thing
If he was, (as I have said over and over and explained in this thread already), a perverted view of God's (absolute, extreme) sovereignty, leads to God being absolutely responsible for everything, including man's (our) sins, meaning God is the guilty one...

Are you claiming that... Cause you basically are...

And, if your not claiming that, can you explain how you "are not" claiming that...?

The burden of proof is on you, so you provide the scripture and I'll try to explain, if not, then I'm done here...

I would direct you to my posts #44, 47, 48, 49 for explanations, and also #158, 159, 225, 229, 231, 237,and 238 for the rest, along with many other responses by many other in and throughout this thread...

God Bless!
 
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Philip_B

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If I stand in the sun and consider my shadow is it right to think that I have created the shadow or that the sun has created the shadow?

I know that might be a bit Jungian but there you go.
 
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MDC

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If he was, (as I have said over and over and explained in this thread already), a perverted view of God's (absolute, extreme) sovereignty, leads to God being absolutely responsible for everything, including man's (our) sins, meaning God is the guilty one...

Are you claiming that... Cause you basically are...

And, if your not claiming that, can you explain how you "are not" claiming that...?

The burden of proof is on you, so you provide the scripture and I'll try to explain, if not, then I'm done here...

I would direct you to my posts #44, 47, 48, 49 for explanations, and also #158, 159, 225, 229, 231, 237,and 238 for the rest, along with many other responses by many other in and throughout this thread...

God Bless!
Like I said you make the same claims any sinner would make. Romans 9, Paul rebukes such assertions and arrogance by anticipating your question. Although God decrees, man carries out what is decreed of him willingly. So therefore held accountable for his own sinful desires and actions. As in the case with Pharaoh. And the example of those evil men who carried out Christ’s murder. Is God unjust? Has not the potter have the right to do as He pleases with the clay? According to you He doesn’t. What is meant for evil in man, God means it for good
 
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Neogaia777

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Like I said you make the same claims any sinner would make. Romans 9, Paul rebukes such assertions and arrogance by anticipating your question. Although God decrees, man carries out what is decreed of him willingly. So therefore held accountable for his own sinful desires and actions. As in the case with Pharaoh. And the example of those evil men who carried out Christ’s murder. Is God unjust? Has not the potter have the right to do as He pleases with the clay? According to you He doesn’t. What is meant for evil in man, God means it for good
So, God knows what we are going to choose, before we choose it...? How does that make God (and not us) accountable...?

In the case of the example of Pharaoh... God knew that he (Pharaoh) was going to choose wrong or evil before he was going to choose it... So, he (God), let him (Pharaoh), choose the evil (and set that evil before him) that he (Pharaoh) was (already) set or had purposed, in his (Pharaoh's) heart to do, and he (Pharaoh), chose it, correct...?

But, how is that a choice...? And... Is that the case with "everybody", or just some...? (And I already tried to explain in another post how I thought that could be so with "some" but not necessarily "all") (apparently I did not make that point clear enough, I guess)...

Cause if it was "all" then that does not change the fact that if it is truly "all" (and not just the specific ones, (or things) God chooses)... Then God is guilty (of all) and we are not, but are innocent, and that, I just will not believe...

I believe he purposes that with "some", but not "all", and not everyone, everybody, and certainly not everything... But "some" (people, places, things)... And, not "all", cause that would make him (God) guilty (of all)...

What do you say to this...?

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

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Like I said you make the same claims any sinner would make. Romans 9, Paul rebukes such assertions and arrogance by anticipating your question. Although God decrees, man carries out what is decreed of him willingly. So therefore held accountable for his own sinful desires and actions. As in the case with Pharaoh. And the example of those evil men who carried out Christ’s murder. Is God unjust? Has not the potter have the right to do as He pleases with the clay? According to you He doesn’t. What is meant for evil in man, God means it for good
BTW, even Paul himself said He "had not counted himself to, as of yet, to have fully apprehended" (all)... yet... when he (they) was/were writing about such things...

So, some of it, is left to us to figure, find, or search out... But, only, according to, or based upon (the foundations of) what they (back then) wrote, or wrote about...

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

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Like I said you make the same claims any sinner would make. Romans 9, Paul rebukes such assertions and arrogance by anticipating your question. Although God decrees, man carries out what is decreed of him willingly. So therefore held accountable for his own sinful desires and actions. As in the case with Pharaoh. And the example of those evil men who carried out Christ’s murder. Is God unjust? Has not the potter have the right to do as He pleases with the clay? According to you He doesn’t. What is meant for evil in man, God means it for good
Or how do you explain (cause I think Paul did know something about this) where Paul said things like "We (those chosen by God, chosen vessels of his) are slaves, but you (who are not) are free...?" And, "whatever state in which each one was called, let him so remain in it...?" (In Christ) (In the express will of God)... "Whether slave, or free"...

(having trouble finding the specific scriptures, but, bear with me and I will try to find them...)

(maybe someone could help me maybe...?) (I know they are there...)

These touch on it... (1 Corinthians 7:21-24) (1 Corinthians 12:13) (Romans 6) (Ephesians 6:8) but may not be the exact ones I am looking for...

And, after these things (are realized)...? (Galatians 3:28) (Colossians 3:11)...

And lets not forget, (after these things are realized) (or apprehended or come to)... "You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make or set you free." (of this)... (John 8:32)... (So that, "you now choose", and make your (own) choice(s) from there)...

God Bless!
 
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Micah888

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So, God knows what we are going to choose, before we choose it...? How does that make God (and not us) accountable...?
You will be for ever talking past those who make God responsible for all the sin and evil in the world and claim they are upholding God's *sovereignty*.

There is no question that God does decree some things. But no one who knows the Word of God will ever dare claim that God decrees wickedness in any way, shape, or form.

A decree is an enactment, a statute, a law, an ordinance, or a commandment of God (Strong's 2706). Who would dare accuse God of commanding wickedness, sin, and evil?
 
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