Why do People Fight so hard for Their Own Free Will ?

MDC

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Not at all. Evil men are not compelled by God to perpetrate evil. Evil was not by "decree" but expected through divine foreknowledge. BIG DIFFERENCE.
No mans natural tendency and nature compels him. God uses all evil for good purposes to bring about His eternal purposes. So you believe God decrees based on what He sees in man? Lol! Nah! That’s actually nullifying Gods Sovereignty by elevating mans sovereignty. You are more in line with a deist. But I know you’ll deny this but it’s the truth. That’s the DIFFERENCE! And if evil wasn’t decreed by God then you don’t believe God is in control of His creation. Mans natural belief is free will sovereignty and his inability to see his own worthless sinful self. It is why unregenerate man will not nor cannot flee to Christ and His righteousness for salvation. All of mercy all of grace by God is what free willers deny. By the sovereign elective grace in Christ God ordained before creation
 
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MDC

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I think you should listen to this teaching about the early church fathers belief about predestination and free will.

You ought to study pelagianism. This is essentially what you are promoting with this. Also deism. Both are heretical and both are in essence what free willers promote
 
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zoidar

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You ought to study pelagianism. This is essentially what you are promoting with this. Also deism. Both are heretical and both are in essence what free willers promote

I'm not that informed about what pelagianism means, I had a quick check on wiki. If you listened to it all you know that the teacher David Bercot says that the fall didn't take our free will away (but that we are stained by sin through the fall), and at the same time it's God who saves us through grace (which as I understand it is against pelagianism). He is not teaching that we can save ourselves. To know how it all comes together we need to listen to his teaching about salvation.

I would like to add that I don't necessarily agree with everything he says, though he got many good points. And it's also interesting to hear about the early church.

Deism? In what way would this teaching be deism? :scratch:
 
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John tower

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No mans natural tendency and nature compels him. God uses all evil for good purposes to bring about His eternal purposes. So you believe God decrees based on what He sees in man? Lol! Nah! That’s actually nullifying Gods Sovereignty by elevating mans sovereignty. You are more in line with a deist. But I know you’ll deny this but it’s the truth. That’s the DIFFERENCE! And if evil wasn’t decreed by God then you don’t believe God is in control of His creation. Mans natural belief is free will sovereignty and his inability to see his own worthless sinful self. It is why unregenerate man will not nor cannot flee to Christ and His righteousness for salvation. All of mercy all of grace by God is what free willers deny. By the sovereign elective grace in Christ God ordained before creation
Hear , hear brother : It's amazing so few understand these simple God glorifying truths .
 
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John tower

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I think you should listen to this teaching about the early church fathers belief about predestination and free will.

Just another man exalting man instead of God : why do these people hate God so much : They are so offended if God is in control of all things : especially them : Seems to be just the pride of man : though I don't know what they have to be proud about since they can do nothing !
 
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John tower

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Not at all. Evil men are not compelled by God to perpetrate evil. Evil was not by "decree" but expected through divine foreknowledge. BIG DIFFERENCE.
Isaiah 45(7) : God created evil , it was not something he expected , as if it was man's work , but he deliberately created it to fulfill his purposes , Ro 8(28) and Gen 3(22) : He is in no way reliant upon what man supposedly does : He is creating all things and orchestrating all things to fulfill his purposes !
 
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zoidar

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Just another man exalting man instead of God : why do these people hate God so much : They are so offended if God is in control of all things : especially them : Seems to be just the pride of man : though I don't know what they have to be proud about since they can do nothing !

Sounds to me that you mix up legalism with love.
 
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Neogaia777

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Isaiah 45(7) : God created evil , it was not something he expected , as if it was man's work , but he deliberately created it to fulfill his purposes , Ro 8(28) and Gen 3(22) : He is in no way reliant upon what man supposedly does : He is creating all things and orchestrating all things to fulfill his purposes !
God created the "possibility" "for us to choose evil", which of course, we did, and is "in control of the (contingency) plans" (his will) he already had surrounding that (possibility)...

God Bless!
 
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Micah888

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Isaiah 45(7) : God created evil...
Since God is Light, He does not create evil. But the calamities He sends upon the earth are regarded as evil.

Strong's Concordance

ra: evil, distress, misery, injury, calamity
Transliteration: ra
Short Definition: evil

All natural disasters are calamities and they cause injuries, miseries, distress, and death. But that is not the same as sin, evil, and wickedness.

We dare not make God responsible for sin and evil since He HATES INIQUITY -- Thou hast loved righteousness and hated iniquity.
 
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Neogaia777

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God created the "possibility" "for us to choose evil", which of course, we did, and is "in control of the plans" (his will) he already had surrounding that...

God Bless!
Which are very good, in the end...

God Bless!
 
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John tower

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No he quoted a few verses out of context and runs from the scriptures his interpretation contradicts. So far neither you or John have given any attempt to answer any questions. My thoughts are because you don’t have an answer for them.
1 Cor 2 , Mt 13(11) : Only God's true sheep , who have God's true spirit can understand these simple God exalting truths : The rest exalt man constantly by trying to give him power that he does not truly have : that is the simple way to know doctrines of men : They are always exalting man instead of God : but they cannot see these simple truths because : 1 Cor 2 : wish I could help them but only God can give the increase : So they will go on exalting men and we will exaly God : Amen !
 
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Micah888

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No mans natural tendency and nature compels him...
So you just admitted that God is not responsible for the wicked deeds of men.

All Bible-believing Christians will acknowledge that God USES evil men for His own purposes. But He compels no one to sin and do evil. And that is exactly what you just admitted. Which means that God does not *decree* (order, command, authorize, demand) evil.
 
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John tower

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Since God is Light, He does not create evil. But the calamities He sends upon the earth are regarded as evil.

Strong's Concordance

ra: evil, distress, misery, injury, calamity
Transliteration: ra
Short Definition: evil

All natural disasters are calamities and they cause injuries, miseries, distress, and death. But that is not the same as sin, evil, and wickedness.

We dare not make God responsible for sin and evil since He HATES INIQUITY -- Thou hast loved righteousness and hated iniquity.
Stop wresting scripture ! Eph 1(11), Col 1(17) : go ahead wrest these scriptures : You have become very good at attacking God's word : not something I want to be good at : I just accept scripture : not try and explain it away : I accept God is in control of all things !
 
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John tower

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So you just admitted that God is not responsible for the wicked deeds of men.

All Bible-believing Christians will acknowledge that God USES evil men for His own purposes. But He compels no one to sin and do evil. And that is exactly what you just admitted. Which means that God does not *decree* (order, command, authorize, demand) evil.
MDC : These people are constantly attacking God's word and God's sovereignity , and exalting man : I would be scared to spend all my time doing that : Mt 13(11), 1 Cor 2 : and : Wisdom is justified of all HER CHILDREN !!!
 
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Micah888

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MDC : These people are constantly attacking God's word and God's sovereignity , and exalting man : I would be scared to spend all my time doing that : Mt 13(11), 1 Cor 2 : and : Wisdom is justified of all HER CHILDREN !!!
Which people are you referring to (Q)

How can it be an attack on the Word of God and the sovereignty of God to uphold the ABSOLUTE RIGHTEOUSNESS of God (Q)
 
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Neogaia777

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It's almost like God is saying, "OK, man continually chooses (to do) evil and wickedly, OK, just a bump in the road, I will work around and with that, and make sure my plans for them, which are in the end, very good, will come to pass (eventually) anyway, regardless...

Contingency plan(s)... (contingent on/upon our (man's) choice or choices)...

God is a very patient person...

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

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It's almost like God is saying, "OK, man continually chooses (to do) evil and wickedly, OK, just a bump in the road, I will work around and with that, and make sure my plans for them, which are in the end, very good, will come to pass (eventually) anyway, regardless...

Contingency plan(s)... (contingent on/upon our (man's) choice or choices)...

God is a very patient person...

God Bless!
They'll come around, my will is in making sure they can or will...

God Bless!
 
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RDKirk

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If you really believe that (or anyone else who does) please define free will for me. I define free will as meaning that I make my own decisions, which makes that absurd. What if went and purposely killed someone, is that God directed? Is that your definition?

A good number of secular philosophers believe the universe is deterministic and whatever you thought you decided was actually totally determined by events you had no control over.

Most secular philosophers believe in a "compatibilist" universe that allows for a limited free will (although definitionally, "limited" free will is not "free" will).

Only some Christians believe in absolute "free will," despite the fact that scripture denies it.
 
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Micah888

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Only some Christians believe in absolute "free will," despite the fact that scripture denies it.
Quite the opposite. Scripture clearly presents mankind as having free will. Hence the requirement to obey the Gospel.

And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Mk 16:15,16)

Only if sinners can freely respond to the Gospel could something be stated in this manner. So we see it illustrated on the day of Pentecost when Peter preached to all the Jews gathered in Jerusalem (Acts 2):

36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. [THE GOSPEL]

37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? [THE CONVICTION]

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
[THE COMMANDMENT TO OBEY THE GOSPEL]

41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. [THE FREE RESPONSE]
 
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