Is sex before premarital sex really sinful?

[Cement]

Sometimes I wonder why God didn’t let us have inbuilt off switches for fleshly desires. I think what we need to understand is that the material world is never fulfilling because it is all passing away the only thing that matters is the things of the spirit which don’t pass away.

 

[fat wee robin]

Hello David, a question I have is what exactly is sexual immorality? That’s a very vague statement which could mean a lot of things from rape to beastility. Is there any clear passage where premarital sex is included in “sexual immorality” if you don’t mind me asking?

I think God had to be very clear on certain subjects until humanity had become truly aware of 'the larger picture ' ,which means that we will automatically love God and others s ourselves . It is very clear that while many try to do that ,so many who call themselves christians are still quite simple .If not there would be no Christians who allowed such things as bombing people who have done them no harm .
Only a day ago the US pressured so called christian nations ,England ,and France caused hell on earth to people in Syria, based on lies told by their government (I am certain that Trump is being lied to also ,as he was against such murder ).
So it is evident that people who are still quite primitive in their attitude to others in general, have to stick to the rules which are really there to keep order in family life and society .Spiritually ,when we have grown enough there will be no more need for rules, for Jesus' two laws will come
automatically , and we will be above the Law .
That is why He said few will make it , because until we stop being destructive
towards others , always putting ourselves first ,then we need to be married and lawful like young children . Since so many marriage in churches are a disaster, and so many long term relationships
can be holy and full of love and respect , makes you wonder .
The word sin is tossed around a great deal ,but it means 'off the path ' ,and yes it is better to get married , but mass murder which is ignored , is more than 'off the path ',it Is SIN .

 

[fat wee robin]

Rev21
But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the polluted, the murderers, the fornicators, the sorcerers, the idolaters, and all liars, their place will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulphur, which is the second death.’

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,
10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

sexual immorality is any type of sex outside of marriage - sex with animals - homosexuality/lesibian

fornication is sex outside of marriage

This is something I dispute greatly,and it is coming from Paul,a man riddled with fleshly desires . It does'nt matter whether you are married or not , if you have unhealthy desires like inappropriate contentography or such ,
and many married do , then is better to be unmarried and faithful and pure minded .

 

[Blade]

Man is the only one that makes this confusing. The word makes it very clear. Does one have to ware something/take something to STOP something as in sperm/egg to have this " premarital sex "?

So WHOM do you want to please? Is HIS way or ours period. A He is NOT going to EVER change on this.

"For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh."

 

[hedrick]

The Greek word translated “fornication” was originally prostitution.

In the OT it is used to translate a range of terms, including having intercourse, being unfaithful, and being a harlot. My impression from a long article is that it was typically used for unfaithfulness, including (metaphorically) unfaithfulness of Israel to God.

In post-OT usage it broadened to include anything inappropriate.

TDNT says that in the NT it means all extra-marital intercourse. It’s not used very often by Jesus, more by Paul. For Paul there are places where it’s obviously prostitution, but some of his statements imply wider implication.

Looking at all uses of inappropriate contenteia (searching in the Greek) I see
Mat 5:3 adultery
Mat 15:19 sin list, unspecified meaning
Mat 19:9 adultery
Mark 7:21 sin list, unspecified meaning
John 8:41 metaphorical
Acts 15:20, 28 unspecified
Acts 21:25 unspecified
1 Cor 5:1 incest
1 Cor 6:13 & 18 prostitute, though that could be an example of something broader
1 Cor 7:2 people should be married to avoid inappropriate contenteia; probably refers to sex among unmarried people; cf 7:8-9, which doesn’t use the term inappropriate contenteia
2 Cor 12:21 sin list, unspecified meaning
Gal 5:19 ditto
Eph 5:3 unspecified
Col 3:5 sin list, unspecified meaning
Rev: several references, but all metaphorical

Nowhere is there an explicit treatment of sex between two unmarried people, probably because it would rarely be an issue. Decent unmarried women would be protected. Non-decent ones would be prostitutes.

The logic of 1 Cor 7:2, however, seems to be aimed at unmarried people.

The general Jewish views of the time would include sex among unmarried people.

The question of how 1st Cent standards apply to modern Christians is one that can't be discussed in CF. I do think it's something people need to think about.

 

[CosmicOsmo]

Short answer: yes, having sex without the intention to spend the rest of your life with that person is missing the mark and not God's original plan. It is sin and it is destructive.

Long answer: don't listen to the fools who use the word "fornication" as a synonym to premarital sex. Fornication doesn't mean premarital sex, but sexual sin in general. The bible talks almost nothing about premarital sex and the only place where it does mention it, it says you should get married if that happens (Exodus 22:16).

The spirit of the word is that marriage = becoming one flesh = sex. In fact, that is how marriage is defined in the book of Genesis: "and they shall be one flesh" (Genesis 2:24). The special bonding between man and woman is what is to be kept sacred and the other things like pieces of paper and rings and such are cultural and secondary.

The devil has had great success deceiving - through movies, books, laws of the nations etc. - even the church into believing that sex and marriage are somehow separate... that you can have all the sex you want but until you find the "special one" its "just sex" (look for that oft' repeated mantra in the next worldly movie you watch: this brainwashing phrase is all over the place!). This is totally contrary to the Word for God.

The flipside of this issue is divorce. A woman will say that she has a piece of paper from the judge saying she is no longer someone's wife and is therefore free to marry someone else. Not so. First of all, Jesus clearly says no man should separate a married couple (Mark 10:9), annulling that judge's piece of paper. Secondly no worldly court is qualified to judge such issues to begin with (1 Corinthians 6:4)

You can take your chances and go do whatever and try to explain it to God later, perhaps even repent later, but it is sin. God can forgive all sin so I'm not condemning you to hell or anything like that, but all those partners before marriage will chip away at your ability to bond with your partner later.

You can look for what you can get away with and still be saved "by the skin of your teeth", but if you want to know God's heart on this issue, look at the higher standards (not the ones given because of the "hardness of their heart"), such as "And he shall take a wife in her virginity" (Leviticus 21:13).

 

[CosmicOsmo]

Nowhere is there an explicit treatment of sex between two unmarried people

"And if a man entice a maid that is not betrothed, and lie with her, he shall surely endow her to be his wife." (Exodus 22:16)

 

[fat wee robin]

Can you make the distinction for me?

Whats the difference between prostitution and premarital sex?

A huge difference .It is because of this kind of hyperbole that christians are confused . The same kind of
nonsense which says all sins are equal when they are patently not . Some people are totally irrational
and dirty minded, so they see the world through their narrow lense .If you are not already a child of God
you will not be able to discern why one day some will live outside the law .Some have arrived, and are given 'adult status ',because their hearts are pure ,but those who are bad in their hearts see only bad ,
and yes they must continue until they are purified at death .

 

[salt-n-light]

A huge difference .It is because of this kind of hyperbole that christians are confused . The same kind of
nonsense which says all sins are equal when they are patently not . Some people are totally irrational
and dirty minded, so they see the world through their narrow lense .If you are not already a child of God
you will not be able to discern why one day some will live outside the law .Some have arrived, and are given 'adult status ',because their hearts are pure ,but those who are bad in their hearts see only bad ,
and yes they must continue until they are purified at death .

I am a child of God, so now that's out of the way, can you actually answer the question? Lol!

In fact while you're at please point to me in the Bible, where God gives 'adult status'? That is a new term.

 

[fat wee robin]

That's fine. It's obviously your choice as to when you want to date.

Ok. So you're saying that you see a social element as being mostly establish in our modern society, right? And why do you think our culture has devolved to a focus on mere sexual intimacy? And how does mere sexual intimacy demonstrate the presence of an actual relationship? What do we even mean by relationship in this context? My point in asking these questions isn't for you to answer them as much as it is for you to consider that some of what you're alluding to here is a bit vague.

I don't think you understand Paul at this point. In 1 Corinthians, Paul is addressing an issue to which the Christians in Corinth had asked him for some direction. They were having problems understanding how to balance their desire for sex, on the one hand, with their competing desire to honor the Lord with their bodies, on the other hand. All Paul was telling them was that, if they found themselves in social contexts where they indeed found other Christians with whom they would love and wish to couple, they should get married and provide themselves an honorable marriage bed. Paul was NOT saying that young, careless, unwise Christian people should just grab the first marriage shuttle bus and hop into bed with one another. There is such a thing as not having to say what should be obvious. Paul was addressing Christians, not non-Christians. Paul was also addressing Christians living in a society not so unlike ours in terms of sexual liberality; in some ways, it was probably worse--especially since Corinth was kind of like a Las Vegas of its own during Paul's time.

So, let's keep things clear and not read into the Scripture something that's not there, such as "unfairness." If anything, Paul was trying to spare his fellow Christians the confusion and heartache that is seen in the recent movie, "Lady Bird." I don't think that if you or I could have advised Christine (i.e. the character of Lady Bird) to see reality as it is, she could have avoided the pitfalls that she kept falling into.

Thankyou for this clear and considerate way of putting things . The greatest problem for people was the complete lack of any dialogue whatsoever on relationships ,feelings, never mind sex, which was for some like me ,a very upsetting subject ,which I closed down, and had no one of any sense to help develop ones emotions and thoughts .
This was the fault of a society which went from wild licence ,in Pauls day, to a suppressed and totally negative attitude to all sex ,married or not .
We can blame the larger churches for the over reaction of the 60's onwards, when a little bit of freedom gave way to total outright rebellion .The hypocrisy of the 'christian 'who would sleep with a woman , and having 'spoiled her in his hypocritical eyes ', would not then marry her ,as he was still looking for a virgin .

Those hypocrites still exist and on this site ,and married or not they will pay the price ,not of having sex with a loved one ,but using a woman for his pleasure and then rejecting her .Why are there prostitutes , because men make them .The percent of women who chose this lifestyle freely ,is minscule as
it is mostly girls who have been used by men ,who then feel worthless afterwards who fall into it .

So any man who has woman treated any woman with contempt, is guilty as they have had all the Power both morally and physically until ,recently and have abused it .

 

[fat wee robin]

I am a child of God, so now that's out of the way, can you actually answer the question? Lol!

In fact while you're at please point to me in the Bible, where God gives 'adult status'? That is a new term.

It is in the bible ,but you cannot see it ;you have to be born again, literally .

 

[salt-n-light]

Well God has given me considerable knowledge on which I have spent a lifetime study under His direction . I do not cast my pearls on any dry ground ,and not on this site . I can 'see ' those who are aware and those who are not . But here is a clue . Calvinists believe in 'election ' and predestination ,I do not, as that would assume that God did not intend to give everyone a chance to be 'saved', but He does pick people over time to do His work , those who have passed the test of love and devotion in a
lifetime .
It is in the bible ,but you cannot see it ;you have to be born again, literally .

You failed to answer a simple question. You even failed more to recognize a sibling in Christ. Your lifetime of studies makes no difference to me if you can't explain anything.

That's fine keep your pearls,but next time before you make such a judgement do your research on me.

 

[fat wee robin]

You failed to answer a simple question. You even failed more to recognize a sibling in Christ. Your lifetime of studies makes no difference to me if you can't explain anything.

That's fine keep your pearls,but next time before you make such a judgement do your research on me.

Was it not you who said that people who are in a loving relationship ,but not 'married ', are no different from prostitutes ?

 

[Petros2015]

If pre-marital sex is sinful then I think you are really crossing a line with pre-pre-marital sex.

 

[salt-n-light]

Was it not you who said that people who are in a loving relationship ,but not 'married ', are no different from prostitutes ?

Nope, my opinion is that premarital sex and prostitution are of the same mindset, selling your body. It may be pitched differently, seen differently, phrased differently, but in hindsight it's doing the same thing.

You're argument is that they are totally different. All yet, you haven't explained that.

 

[dreadnought]

I do realize it is condemned in the bible at all cost but some part of me just feels it was meant for that time and culture and not us. The reason I’m saying this is because during biblical times most engagements were set up by the spouses families and they weren’t allowed to meet each other until they married. Clearly this isn’t the case anymore now since dating exists and parents no longer intrudes in their children’s dating life. What I’m getting at with this is, isn’t it possible it was FAR more easier to be celibate when you already had a planned engagement at a young age? In modern times most people don’t marry strangers and marriages are decided by them not their parents based off of class or benefits like biblical times. Most people don’t even marry until they’re WAY older.

The Lord's commandments stand forever and with good reason. Sexual lust is a powerful force, and people will always be trying to justify having sex outside of marriage. Sin always leads to trouble, though.

 

[Isaac Varghese]

God condemns fornication, simple as that

 

[Smidlee]

God condemns fornication, simple as that

They are claiming "fornication" in scripture doesn't refer premarital sex but idolatry but they fail to realize in a lot of cases those are the same thing. This generation has been deceive into thinking they started something new with the sex revolution when it ancient. Idolatry and having sex outside of marriage went hand to hand.
In Exodus 32:6 They "sat down to eat and to drink and rose up to play." They surely wasn't playing Monopoly or Poker.

 

[hedrick]

They are claiming "fornication" in scripture doesn't refer premarital sex but idolatry but they fail to realize in a lot of cases those are the same thing. This generation has been deceive into thinking they started something new with the sex revolution when it ancient. Idolatry and having sex outside of marriage went hand to hand.
In Exodus 32:6 They "sat down to eat and to drink and rose up to play." They surely wasn't playing Monopoly or Poker.

Your response has implications you may want to reconsider. If ancient premarital sex was linked with idolatry, that supports the case that the NT prohibitions don't apply to all modern situations. I'm not so sure that it's true, however.

 

[salt-n-light]

Your response has implications you may want to reconsider. If ancient premarital sex was linked with idolatry, that supports the case that the NT prohibitions don't apply to all modern situations. I'm not so sure that it's true, however.

Keep in mind that idolatry wasn't only subjected to carven images, "gods" was also to describe one of authority,( it's probably was what they mainly were referring to, still looking into it),so kings for example were also considered gods. Idolatry also pertains to worship of people, it would still apply today.