Is sex before premarital sex really sinful?

[TommySoda]

1 Corinthians 6:15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.
6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

When you have sex with someone you are joined to that person.
And if you are joined to someone outside of the bond of marriage, there is nothing but trouble.
This is why God had such a problem with adultery/fornication.
The penalty in the OT was to be stoned to death for both parties.

You were wondering if this Word from God should be applicable to every situation.
My answer would be an unequivocal yes.
Could you name a hypothetical situation where you think it should not be applied?

I can actually named a couple of situations were this was not applied to

Tamar and Judah, Tamar purposely depressed like a prostitute to trick Judah into giving her a child (premarital sex).


Ruth was not punished for (presumably) having sex with Boaz and at most made him lust over her.

And finally the Song of Solomon discuses premarital sex HEAVILY

 

[FutureAndAHope]

Jesus has been forever coming soon, the question remains, what exactly is obedience? Do you mean obedience to how you interpret the Bible?

You said "what exactly is obedience?" We bible tells us that although we are saved by grace, although we are not judged by the law, we must depart from sin and iniquity. It is sloppy faith, to not fear God, to not obey Him. And yes I really believe Jesus will be back with in a small number of years, the western (and other) church will be heavily persecuted at the point of a sword, it will not be a day for meddling with sin.

 

[Tetra]

You said "what exactly is obedience?" We bible tells us that although we are saved by grace, although we are not judged by the law, we must depart from sin and iniquity. It is sloppy faith, to not fear God, to not obey Him. And yes I really believe Jesus will be back with in a small number of years, the western (and other) church will be heavily persecuted at the point of a sword, it will not be a day for meddling with sin.

Okay... but you're suggesting obedience by not sinning... how do you know what is or isn't a sin in areas which are not explicitly discussed in the Bible?

 

[Doug Melven]

Tamar and Judah, Tamar purposely depressed like a prostitute to trick Judah into giving her a child (premarital sex).


Ruth was not punished for (presumably) having sex with Boaz and at most made him lust over her.

And finally the Song of Solomon discuses premarital sex HEAVILY

Judah said he was wrong for doing so.
Where does it say Ruth had premarital sex with Boaz?
Song of Solomon does not discuss premarital sex. It describes the wonder of the Beloved.

 

[Mountainmike]

If you mean standards have slipped leading to the moral collapse with all the inevitable problems ofmarriage collapse, (so called) " single parent families" responsible for many of societies ills , who do not take their responsibilities seriously, excessive divorce rates, the turning of marriage into a short lived contract not life long covenant.

now it is all about " me" " my rights", and " my entitlemends" "my self gratification" not my responsibilities to society , children and my partner, and so to provide for children, not leave an ever more burdened welfate state to do so.

It is the same hedonism that led to collapse of Roman morality and ultimately collapse of Roman cohesion and empire.

Those of us who restrained ourselves to God's word, with a relationship of years built around other than sex, have had happy marriages of 40 years. Your generation barely manages 4, and multi partner sex is responsible for many of the problems such as AIDS that spread like wildfire in subsaharan Africa. The solution is single sex partner for life, not drugs,

Think about other than your self and your own self gratification, and consider the role of sex only for procreation not fornication, and marriage as the only stable environment for proper development of children, so the only context for a proper sex relationship.

I do realize it is condemned in the bible at all cost but some part of me just feels it was meant for that time and culture and not us. The reason I’m saying this is because during biblical times most engagements were set up by the spouses families and they weren’t allowed to meet each other until they married. Clearly this isn’t the case anymore now since dating exists and parents no longer intrudes in their children’s dating life. What I’m getting at with this is, isn’t it possible it was FAR more easier to be celibate when you already had a planned engagement at a young age? In modern times most people don’t marry strangers and marriages are decided by them not their parents based off of class or benefits like biblical times. Most people don’t even marry until they’re WAY older.

 

[salt-n-light]

I didn't miss what was written... I'm the one that linked to it. Fornication currently means sex before marriage, however, at the time when the KJV of the bible was written it didn't.

The greek word is inappropriate contentos for "fornication" in 1Co 6:9:
Strongs Greek

Which again, is in reference to prostitution.

I simply think there are better reasons for abstaining than utilizing the verses in reference to "fornication" which, for the most part is only translated that way in the KJV.

Yes, because outside the marriage bed, it was considered whoredom. So the equivalence today would be just outside the marriage bed. If we were to measure up how people today would be viewed before, a lot of people would be considered harlots/prostitutes. Prostitution isn't only subjected to those who get money off of sex, its literally just selling on one's body, which is what is happening when you are having premarital sex outside the confines of marriage.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

fornication (n.)

c. 1300, from Old French fornicacion "fornication, lewdness; prostitution; idolatry" (12c.), from Late Latin fornicationem (nominative fornicatio), noun of action from past participle stem of fornicari "to fornicate," from Latin fornix (genitive fornicis) "brothel" (Juvenal, Horace), originally "arch, vaulted chamber, a vaulted opening, a covered way," probably an extension, based on appearance, from a source akin to fornus "brick oven of arched or domed shape" (from PIE root *gwher- "to heat, warm"). Strictly, "voluntary sex between an unmarried man and an unmarried woman;" extended in the Bible to adultery. The sense extension in Latin is perhaps because Roman prostitutes commonly solicited from under the arches of certain buildings.

So it's still premarital sex......

Basically, it's considered whoredom. Usually, people that practice fornicating are not saying "hey, let me marry the person I'm having sex with". It's usually for pleasure without the commitment. Israel was like this in the OT, and God uses Hosea's marriage as an illustration of Israel's whorish and corrupt nature and God's dealing with Israel. Jesus addresses the woman at the well's "five husbands" in comparing of trying to quench a thirst, in which Jesus steps in and say with Him, she will never thirst again. Sex is spiritually binding, which is why when it came to sexual immorality of any kind, its a sin against the person, everything else its outside, but sex affects that person, that goes for sexual acts that are of no commitment, it would be like selling off your body. God is not for fornication.

Yep, fornication is closely related to prostitution and whoredom, which are more commonly found terms in the older English KJV.

Take for example:

Ezekiel 16:26 "Thou hast also committed fornication with the Egyptians thy neighbours, great of flesh; and hast increased thy whoredoms, to provoke me to anger." (KJV)

From Strong's the Hebrew for fornication:

H2181 זָנָה zanah (zaw-naw') v.
1. to commit adultery (usually of the female).
2. (less often) to commit fornication.
3. (rarely) to commit rape.
4. (figuratively) to commit idolatry (the Jewish people being regarded as the spouse of Yahweh).

From Strong's the Hebrew for whoredoms

H8457 תַּזנוּת taznuwth (taz-nooth') n-f.
תַּזנֻת taznuth (taz-nooth')
1. prostitution.
2. (figuratively) idolatry.

[from H2181]
KJV: fornication, whoredom.
Root(s): H2181
See also: G4202

 

[TommySoda]

Judah said he was wrong for doing so.
Where does it say Ruth had premarital sex with Boaz?
Song of Solomon does not discuss premarital sex. It describes the wonder of the Beloved.

It is possible Judah admitting that seeing a prostitute was wrong and as far as the Song of Solomon I think it pretty heavily implied it had premarital sex in its passages.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

Okay... but you're suggesting obedience by not sinning... how do you know what is or isn't a sin in areas which are not explicitly discussed in the Bible?

It is 100% obvious that the bible says premarital sex is wrong, in both the old an new testament. Paul said it was wrong, and his culture, was different to the OT culture. So we have two separate cultures for which it was wrong. It is still wrong today.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

I seem a bit harsh, and I am taking that tone right now, Jesus is Coming soon, and He is not interested in how we use words, only in obedience.

All I read above are words, and had to use them to respond. Oh well, doesn't matter I guess.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

All I read above are words, and had to use them to respond. Oh well, doesn't matter I guess.

I am talking about, what the bible calls "useless disputes over words" .. where people choose to be blind to the truth, so they can sin.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

I didn't miss what was written... I'm the one that linked to it. Fornication currently means sex before marriage, however, at the time when the KJV of the bible was written it didn't.

The greek word is inappropriate contentos for "fornication" in 1Co 6:9:
Strongs Greek

Which again, is in reference to prostitution.

I simply think there are better reasons for abstaining than utilizing the verses in reference to "fornication" which, for the most part is only translated that way in the KJV.

Just because modern translations might use a different word, it does not change the underlying Hebrew and Greek words behind the transliterated words. And 1 Cor 6:9, is but one passage among countless passages on the topic throughout Scripture.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

I am talking about, what the bible calls "useless disputes over words" .. where people choose to be blind to the truth, so they can sin.

Ah ok, gotcha, seems to be a common thread with mankind unfortunately.

 

[Doug Melven]

It is possible Judah admitting that seeing a prostitute was wrong and as far as the Song of Solomon I think it pretty heavily implied it had premarital sex in its passages.

The only reason God didn't punish Judah was that the law had not been given yet.
It was still not right for Judah to have sex with a prostitute.. Nothing in that passage says it was right for Judah to do what he did.
Show me one verse in the the Song of Solomon that implies there was sex.

And in reply to my question about giving a situation where premarital sex was okay, you have not done so.
All you have done is to supply some OT examples that you think premarital sex was ok with God.

 

[TommySoda]

The only reason God didn't punish Judah was that the law had not been given yet.
It was still not right for Judah to have sex with a prostitute.. Nothing in that passage says it was right for Judah to do what he did.
Show me one verse in the the Song of Solomon that implies there was sex.

And in reply to my question about giving a situation where premarital sex was okay, you have not done so.
All you have done is to supply some OT examples that you think premarital sex was ok with God.

Sleeping with a prostitute is different to having premarital sex. The reason why I brought it up was because it was premarital sex. Judah might of felt ashamed for sleeping with a “prostitute” but it’s not said he was ashamed for sleeping with a woman premarital, am I correct? I have no situation for because all you would do is denounce it. Premarital sex is a “sin” according to the Bible so you’re going to feel any situation I give you is invalid

 

[Doug Melven]

I have no situation for because all you would do is denounce it. Premarital sex is a “sin” according to the Bible so you’re going to feel any situation I give you is invalid

I was thinking you might have something in mind that could be discussed.
I will not denounce any reason you give without explanation.
I will explain from the Bible why it is wrong.
I won't just use a verse that says, "Flee fornication".
There might be some wisdom from Proverbs I could show you. Who knows?

 

[TommySoda]

The only reason God didn't punish Judah was that the law had not been given yet.
It was still not right for Judah to have sex with a prostitute.. Nothing in that passage says it was right for Judah to do what he did.
Show me one verse in the the Song of Solomon that implies there was sex.

And in reply to my question about giving a situation where premarital sex was okay, you have not done so.
All you have done is to supply some OT examples that you think premarital sex was ok with God.

Also according to Wikipedia the Song of Songs is described as “The literal subject of the Song of Songs is love and SEXUAL LONGING between a man and a woman“

 

[TommySoda]

I was thinking you might have something in mind that could be discussed.
I will not denounce any reason you give without explanation.
I will explain from the Bible why it is wrong.
I won't just use a verse that says, "Flee fornication".
There might be some wisdom from Proverbs I could show you. Who knows?

Okay, I’ll play. Let’s to say that someone was single for a very long time (possibly due to them not finding the right connection) and they troubles that is an effect of not having sex (Nocturnal emission) how would you suggest they handle that? I’m sure I can come up with better situations but this came into my head first.

 

[Tetra]

Yes, because outside the marriage bed, it was considered whoredom. So the equivalence today would be just outside the marriage bed. If we were to measure up how people today would be viewed before, a lot of people would be considered harlots/prostitutes. Prostitution isn't only subjected to those who get money off of sex, its literally just selling on one's body, which is what is happening when you are having premarital sex outside the confines of marriage.

I see, so you're making no distinction between prostitution and simply premarital sex. I suppose for me they would be completely different things which is why I don't find those verses particularly compelling. I guess we just disagree on how we look at it.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

funny how Paul's admonition to avoid sexual immorality was to marry and not just go ahead and get it on with your significant other.

not hop in bed, not fap.....get married.