Genesis 6:1-4 and Jude 6&7 what do these passages mean? Why should we care?

Riberra

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Genesis 6:9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.


towldah
to-led-aw'
or toldah {to-led-aw'}; from 'yalad' (3205); (plural only) descent, i.e. family; (figuratively) history:--birth, generations.


dowr
dore
or (shortened) dor {dore}; from 'duwr' (1752); properly, a revolution of time, i.e. an age or generation; also a dwelling:--age, X evermore, generation, (n-)ever, posterity.



It seems to me if bloodline was meant per this part--- Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations---the text would have said---Noah was a just man and perfect in his towldah---rather than---Noah was a just man and perfect in his dowr
Nice try but no cigars !

The word dowr mean GENERATION ----POSTERITY ----Generation from generation of descendants from Adam ---->Seth.... to Noah ---->The Genesis 5 lineage .
dowr
dore
or (shortened) dor {dore}; from 'duwr' (1752); properly, a revolution of time, i.e. an age or generation; also a dwelling:--age, X evermore, generation, (n-)ever, posterity.
 
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4x4toy

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Does that include wings like the Cherubim :)
We will reign over the angels
Yea it is a perversion of scripture to say it means something other than what it says
and it does not say we will be like eunuchs .
The Church is considered to be the Bride - and any member of the Church Bride of Christ needs no other spouse - even if it is not necessary to have sex it does not even suggest that the resurrected body is not capable of having sex - your teaching is a like the preachers who say that Christian Rock Music will lead people into sexual sin - it is just what some preacher attached to what Jesus said - complete supposition with no scripture support
You're right, it says like angels concerning sex and marriage :oldthumbsup:
But, why did kings make and put eunuchs in charge of their harems ? Because they suddenly became good at math ? ^_^......... And I can see sex, drugs and rock n roll easier than sex and/or drugs, and the ''old rugged cross'' music .. Also never seen women throwing their room keys and drawers at George Beverley Shea like they did at Tom Jones ^_^.. You just can't make the connections or either you can and won't admit it .. I like all music within reason .. Occasionally my wife and I will take a little time , drink a little wine , put on some soft classic rock or 60's motown , chill out, laugh, talk a little, and see what happens, very nice but in heaven we move on to much greater and better things .. I've had a dream of being in heaven and I know we will not miss a single thing or earthly pleasure from this life ..
 
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4x4toy

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When we get to to heaven, we will be like the angels in that we will be sons of God. Neither male not female. But that is in Heaven. The Angels in heaven are male. Here on Earth they have male bodies. They look like men!The Bible says they had relations with women and the offspring were the Nephilim. Now you all want us to believe all of this fly by night stuff about two Adams and two creations, but you don't want to believe what is written.
I believe one creation and I am a son of God now .. Angels had a choice , mankind has a choice, you keep saying the offspring of fallen angels and women produced beings apart from God that have no choice .. Sorry Sis, that does not fit the character of God imo ..
 
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Sure you're not :oldthumbsup: .. Tell me about those 450 footers again ..

Why do you continually refer to a book you believe has no relevance to argue against a case that can be made from scripture without said book? Just wondering?
 
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How did Adam make it to heaven
You said:

“Son of God, No not until we are begotten of God through the Holy Spirit ''Born again''”

Can you provide even one scripture that states any OT saint was “begotten of God through the Holy Spirit ''Born again'' ?

If we can’t get our terminology in line with each other it is no wonder we can’t get our doctrine to agree.

No Old Testament saint was born again in the same way we are after the death burial and resurrection of Christ.

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Let’s look at the disciples. When Jesus made the above statement the disciples had the Spirit with them but not in them. That could not happen until after the death burial and resurrection of Christ and the “Spirit” began to dwell in the hearts of men not just rest upon them as was the case with OT saints.

1 John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Notice how John describes the believer after the resurrection of Christ. The anointing (Spirit) abideth in you.

This is one big reason that the argument that tries to link the use of the phrase “son of God” in the NT to the use of the phrase in the OT falls flat. A son of God in the OT is simply not the same thing as in the NT and is is total error to try and make them the same.

Let’s put on our thinking caps and let me ask you a question about Thomas. Thomas was not with the other disciples when they first believed that Christ was risen John 20:22 Jesus breathed on them and they received the Holy Spirit. I am convinced that is the moment they became born again NT believers. They were not grandfathered into salvation just because they walked with Christ. They had to believe He was the risen savior like everyone else who is born again under the New Covenant.

Now to my Thomas question. John 20:25 when Thomas said “Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe” was he at that time a born again NT believer, saved by the blood of the Lamb? I argue no he could not have been . He stated he would not believe Christ was risen unless he could see and verify. Saying “I will not believe” will not get anyone saved, no not even Thomas.

27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

Jesus in His mercy allowed Thomas to verify.

28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

I believe at this moment Thomas was a born again, saved by the blood, NT believer.

29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

Jesus confirms this in the above passage. Thomas’s case was unique, we fall into the latter category “blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed”.

To your question, “How did Adam make it to heaven” . I don’t think we can say beyond a shadow of a doubt what his eternal status is. If you can prove it by scripture I am open to what you have to say. I think most assume he was in right standing with God when he died and if that be true he went to the place called Abraham’s bosom, (Luke 16:22), in the heart of the earth not heaven. After the resurrection of Christ it is my belief he would now reside in heaven. That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.
 
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Why do you keep overlooking Hebrews 1:5
I did address it, way back in this thread and it is you who overlooked my post on that passage. I just don’t agree with your interpretation nor that of the man in the video you posted. I am not overlooking anything.
 
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DavidPT

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Nice try but no cigars !

The word dowr mean GENERATION ----POSTERITY ----Generation from generation of descendants from Adam ---->Seth.... to Noah ---->The Genesis 5 lineage .
dowr
dore
or (shortened) dor {dore}; from 'duwr' (1752); properly, a revolution of time, i.e. an age or generation; also a dwelling:--age, X evermore, generation, (n-)ever, posterity.


According to my Strong's, it is towldah that is used in Genesis 5, not dowr. What then is your point here?
 
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Riberra

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According to my Strong's, it is towldah that is used in Genesis 5, not dowr. What then is your point here?
The question should be what was your point when you wrote:
Post 1460 page 73.
It seems to me if bloodline was meant per this part--- Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations---the text would have said---Noah was a just man and perfect in his towldah---rather than---Noah was a just man and perfect in his dowr
 
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4x4toy

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You said:

“Son of God, No not until we are begotten of God through the Holy Spirit ''Born again''”

Can you provide even one scripture that states any OT saint was “begotten of God through the Holy Spirit ''Born again'' ?

If we can’t get our terminology in line with each other it is no wonder we can’t get our doctrine to agree.

No Old Testament saint was born again in the same way we are after the death burial and resurrection of Christ.

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Let’s look at the disciples. When Jesus made the above statement the disciples had the Spirit with them but not in them. That could not happen until after the death burial and resurrection of Christ and the “Spirit” began to dwell in the hearts of men not just rest upon them as was the case with OT saints.

1 John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Notice how John describes the believer after the resurrection of Christ. The anointing (Spirit) abideth in you.

This is one big reason that the argument that tries to link the use of the phrase “son of God” in the NT to the use of the phrase in the OT falls flat. A son of God in the OT is simply not the same thing as in the NT and is is total error to try and make them the same.

Let’s put on our thinking caps and let me ask you a question about Thomas. Thomas was not with the other disciples when they first believed that Christ was risen John 20:22 Jesus breathed on them and they received the Holy Spirit. I am convinced that is the moment they became born again NT believers. They were not grandfathered into salvation just because they walked with Christ. They had to believe He was the risen savior like everyone else who is born again under the New Covenant.

Now to my Thomas question. John 20:25 when Thomas said “Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe” was he at that time a born again NT believer, saved by the blood of the Lamb? I argue no he could not have been . He stated he would not believe Christ was risen unless he could see and verify. Saying “I will not believe” will not get anyone saved, no not even Thomas.

27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

Jesus in His mercy allowed Thomas to verify.

28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

I believe at this moment Thomas was a born again, saved by the blood, NT believer.

29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

Jesus confirms this in the above passage. Thomas’s case was unique, we fall into the latter category “blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed”.

To your question, “How did Adam make it to heaven” . I don’t think we can say beyond a shadow of a doubt what his eternal status is. If you can prove it by scripture I am open to what you have to say. I think most assume he was in right standing with God when he died and if that be true he went to the place called Abraham’s bosom, (Luke 16:22), in the heart of the earth not heaven. After the resurrection of Christ it is my belief he would now reside in heaven. That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.
Matthew 27:52-53 .. Didn't everybody before Jesus have to have faith in God .. From Adam the creation story and his fall, sons of God called on God , Job and his sons/men, the sons of God of the land observed feast days ,then later with more prophecy available everybody had faith in Messiah all rolled forward waiting in paradise and are you born again of your own or must you have a call/desire for and from God to be chosen .. You can call on God but God sees your heart to be chosen or not ..
 
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DavidPT

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The question should be what was your point when you wrote:

My point is that 2 different Hebrew words were used for the verse in question. The part that says Noah was perfect in his generations, the Hebrew word wasn't towldah, such as is used in Genesis 5:1, but was dowr instead. If the sense was as the same for generations in Genesis 5:1, why wasn't the same Hebrew word used in Genesis 6:9? towldah is used in Genesis 6:9, but not in the 2nd clause though. Must be a good reason why that is so. Probably because generations in the 2nd clause is meaning in a different sense than generations in the first clause. In the first clause the sense seems to be like that of Genesis 5:1.
 
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Riberra

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My point is that 2 different Hebrew words were used for the verse in question. The part that says Noah was perfect in his generations, the Hebrew word wasn't towldah, such as is used in Genesis 5:1, but was dowr instead. If the sense was as the same for generations in Genesis 5:1, why wasn't the same Hebrew word used in Genesis 6:9? towldah is used in Genesis 6:9, but not in the 2nd clause though. Must be a good reason why.
That is becoming interesting ----> Genesis 5:1 refers to the humans male and female that God have created on the 6TH Day to which it was said to be fruitful and multiply and subdue the Earth....

While Genesis 6:9 refers to the lineage of the man called Adam that God have formed from the dust of the Earth and placed in a Garden ---- which PURE lineage begin with Seth ----> to Noah ...Genesis 5:3-32 Adam ---Seth ...to Noah.
 
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4x4toy

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My point is that 2 different Hebrew words were used for the verse in question. The part that says Noah was perfect in his generations, the Hebrew word wasn't towldah, such as is used in Genesis 5:1, but was dowr instead. If the sense was as the same for generations in Genesis 5:1, why wasn't the same Hebrew word used in Genesis 6:9? towldah is used in Genesis 6:9, but not in the 2nd clause though. Must be a good reason why that is so. Probably because generations in the 2nd clause is meaning in a different sense than generations in the first clause. In the first clause the sense seems to be like that of Genesis 5:1.
What is it that applies one way or the other
 
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DavidPT

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That is becoming interesting ----> Genesis 5:1 refers to the humans male and female that God have created on the 6TH Day to which it was said to be fruitful and multiply and subdue the Earth....

While Genesis 6:9 refers to the lineage of the man called Adam that God have formed from the dust of the Earth and placed in a Garden ---- which PURE lineage begin with Seth ----> to Noah ...Genesis 5:3-32 Adam ---Seth ...to Noah.


Assuming sons of God in Genesis 6 are meaning fallen angels, well, they were having sex with the women and not the men. Then apparently producing hybrid offspring as a result. Noah is said to have begat 3 sons. In what way could these fallen angels contaminate Noah's bloodline? How would they accomplish that? To claim they didn't contaminate Noah's bloodline, because Genesis 6:9 says Noah was perfect in his generations, implies it was possible to do so. Assuming that was the correct interpretation of that part. So how would it be possible then, for these angels to contaminate Noah's bloodline, if Noah's bloodline consisted of sons?
 
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Riberra

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Assuming sons of God in Genesis 6 are meaning fallen angels, well, they were having sex with the women and not the men. Then apparently producing hybrid offspring as a result. Noah is said to have begat 3 sons. In what way could these fallen angels contaminate Noah's bloodline? How would they accomplish that? To claim they didn't contaminate Noah's bloodline, because Genesis 6:9 says Noah was perfect in his generations, implies it was possible to do so. Assuming that was the correct interpretation of that part. So how would it be possible then, for these angels to contaminate Noah's bloodline, if Noah's bloodline consisted of sons?
Noah's wife have not mated with the Fallen Angels Genesis 6:1-4 ... simple as that !
 
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