Dear Fellow Christian Parents,

[JAM2b]

Please teach your kids not to be arrogant, rude, hateful, bullies to kids who aren't Christians.

My oldest son has many struggles (but has been doing pretty well lately, all things considered). One of his struggles is that his father and step-mother are not Christians and have a strong influence on him. I have raised him as a Christian, and he was saved and baptised (his choice). He has since decided he is not a Christian.

So these "righteous, Jesus-loving" kids think this is reason to be outraged and mean.

I have spent probably the last four years getting him to calm down his anger, arrogance, and frustration over the differences between us spiritually. I have put a lot of work in teaching him not to be rude or mean to people for believing, and to be respectful and polite.

**I have trained him to not be mean to Christian kids.**

He has been verbally attacked and harassed by some of the more vocal Christian kids at his school for a couple of years now.

This last week there was a girl who was angry because one of the science teachers was telling her she had to take a biology course the next year. She doesn't want to take biology because she doesn't believe in evolution. She wants to skip the whole entire class. She obsessed over it, and made it an issue. She kept talking about it during lunches and in classes for two days.

My son is a good listener, and he just let her go on and on about it without saying anything. After a while she asked him why he wasn't saying anything. He told her it didn't matter to him, and that it was her choice (it's really not, she's required to have biology). So she asked him how he felt, if he agreed with her. He told her no, that he thought she was having a reaction that was over the top, and she doesn't have to believe in evolution but she doesn't have to get upset just because she has been told about the class or that it is included in the course work.

Her anger shifted to him, and she yelled at him in front of other kids. She spent the rest of the day talking bad about him to other students and spreading it around the school, saying bad things about him that have nothing to do with the conflict she brought on.

I am so angry. I want to know who her parents are, and what church she goes to. I want them made aware of this, and I want them to stop it. If they don't, I want them called out for it.

This is soo wrong. Jesus did not train his disciples to do it this way.

 

[A_Thinker]

I am so angry. I want to know who her parents are, and what church she goes to. I want them made aware of this, and I want them to stop it. If they don't, I want them called out for it.

Unfortunately, her parents are probably the reason why she is like this.

If her parents agree that they don't want her to have to take biology, perhaps she can transfer to a school where it is not a requirement.

Talking to the school officials might have a better effect.

I would think that they have some type of anti-bullying policy ...

 

[Liza B.]

Please teach your kids not to be arrogant, rude, hateful, bullies to kids who aren't Christians.

My oldest son has many struggles (but has been doing pretty well lately, all things considered). One of his struggles is that his father and step-mother are not Christians and have a strong influence on him. I have raised him as a Christian, and he was saved and baptised (his choice). He has since decided he is not a Christian.

So these "righteous, Jesus-loving" kids think this is reason to be outraged and mean.

I have spent probably the last four years getting him to calm down his anger, arrogance, and frustration over the differences between us spiritually. I have put a lot of work in teaching him not to be rude or mean to people for believing, and to be respectful and polite.

**I have trained him to not be mean to Christian kids.**

He has been verbally attacked and harassed by some of the more vocal Christian kids at his school for a couple of years now.

This last week there was a girl who was angry because one of the science teachers was telling her she had to take a biology course the next year. She doesn't want to take biology because she doesn't believe in evolution. She wants to skip the whole entire class. She obsessed over it, and made it an issue. She kept talking about it during lunches and in classes for two days.

My son is a good listener, and he just let her go on and on about it without saying anything. After a while she asked him why he wasn't saying anything. He told her it didn't matter to him, and that it was her choice (it's really not, she's required to have biology). So she asked him how he felt, if he agreed with her. He told her no, that he thought she was having a reaction that was over the top, and she doesn't have to believe in evolution but she doesn't have to get upset just because she has been told about the class or that it is included in the course work.

Her anger shifted to him, and she yelled at him in front of other kids. She spent the rest of the day talking bad about him to other students and spreading it around the school, saying bad things about him that have nothing to do with the conflict she brought on.

I am so angry. I want to know who her parents are, and what church she goes to. I want them made aware of this, and I want them to stop it. If they don't, I want them called out for it.

This is soo wrong. Jesus did not train his disciples to do it this way.

First, I hear you, I understand, and I'm very sorry. I understand your reaction as a mother, I do. I have a daughter in high school. I understand how much effort we put into raising our children right and how much it hurts when our children are wronged.

however. I know it's hard, but try to think "long game". In the long run, what do you want your son to take away from this? How can he be made a stronger young man from this exchange--more ready to face the world full of great Christians, bad Christians, loving people and toxic people of all stripes?

Big hugs from me, a fellow mom of one teen and one son ready to turn 21. I'm not trying to challenge you--I'm standing shoulder to shoulder next to you in the trenches. Hang in here.

 

[SheldonCooper]

Please teach your kids not to be arrogant, rude, hateful, bullies to kids who aren't Christians.

Any methodology that teaches the premise of a human being accepted in some super natural kingdom while living with other humans who have not automatically sets that human's mind up to be arrogant, rude, hateful, and possibly a bully.

The Bible teaches division so you should not be surprised at this behavior. Your very lord and savior made a chord of whips out of anger and flipped tables over on other human beings while chasing them out of a temple like a mad man. This is one of the examples the sheep follow.

 

[A_Thinker]

Any methodology that teaches the premise of a human being accepted in some super natural kingdom while living with other humans who have not automatically sets that human's mind up to be arrogant, rude, hateful, and possibly a bully.

It doesn't take such a thing for humans to behave with inhumanity to others. Stalin and Mao were masters of inhumanity.

 

[A_Thinker]

The Bible teaches division so you should not be surprised at this behavior. Your very lord and savior made a chord of whips out of anger and flipped tables over on other human beings while chasing them out of a temple like a mad man. This is one of the examples the sheep follow.

Jesus evacuated money-changers from an area in the Jewish Temple where they had no business being. Sort of like a bank in the church or school foyer ...

 

[SheldonCooper]

Jesus evacuated money-changers from an area in the Jewish Temple where they had no business being. Sort of like a bank in the church or school foyer ...

So a mass shooting at a concert in Las Vegas or a school in Florida is permissible so long as their is just cause. Interesting. I suppose if a person was to commit an act of terror in a building claiming it was " His Father's House " and the only proof of this claim was to read some documentation that talked about a man that had no name and the terrorist in question says.." I'm that man "...the legal system should just say..." Oh, okay then. Carry on with your manic episode, sir. "

 

[A_Thinker]

So a mass shooting at a concert in Las Vegas or a school in Florida is permissible so long as their is just cause. Interesting. I suppose if a person was to commit an act of terror in a building claiming it was " His Father's House " and the only proof of this claim was to read some documentation that talked about a man that had no name and the terrorist in question says.." I'm that man "...the legal system should just say..." Oh, okay then. Carry on with your manic episode, sir. "

We're not speaking of a mass shooting at a concert in Las Vegas or a school in Florida ...

One with sufficient authority can evacuate persons who have invaded a sacred ... or otherwise reserved space.

For instance, ... if I arrived at church on a Sunday morning, only to find money-making operations in the foyer, I would be well within my rights to insist that they leave ...

 

[SheldonCooper]

For instance, ... if I arrived at church on a Sunday morning, only to find money-making operations in the foyer, I would be well within my rights to insist that they leave ...

You being the owner of that building have the right to aggressively assault these violators is what you're saying because all you would have to tell the authorities is " My lord and savior Jesus Christ did it as well. "

 

[The_Believer7]

You being the owner of that building have the right to aggressively assault these violators is what you're saying because all you would have to tell the authorities is " My lord and savior Jesus Christ did it as well. "

No ... rather because I am one of the co-managers of the property and if I am dealing with trespassers ... then I have the right to evict them from the property.

Just like if someone in trespassing in my home ... I have the right to throw them out.

 

[SheldonCooper]

No ... rather because I am one of the co-managers of the property and if I am dealing with trespassers ... then I have the right to evict them from the property.

Just like if someone in trespassing in my home ... I have the right to throw them out.

Because in documentation you see your actual name on the documents stating that you are the co-manager of the property. Jesus Christ did not have such evidence other than the Torah which didn't have his name in it. Simply references to Him as " The Messiah. " No one knew His name. He simply arrived and stated " I am He. "

To then boldly walk in a temple that was " co-managed by the Pharisees and Sadduccees " and say it was His Father's House and violate human beings via throwing furniture over and making a chord of whips with the intent to bring harm their way.

This is the example the " Good " Shepard presents to young people in Church to where they can go to school and bully someone else. Which is what the OP is talking about.

 

[The_Believer7]

Because in documentation you see your actual name on the documents stating that you are the co-manager of the property. Jesus Christ did not have such evidence other than the Torah which didn't have his name in it. Simply references to Him as " The Messiah. " No one knew His name. He simply arrived and stated " I am He. "

To then boldly walk in a temple that was " co-managed by the Pharisees and Sadduccees " and say it was His Father's House and violate human beings via throwing furniture over and making a chord of whips with the intent to bring harm their way.

This is the example the " Good " Shepard presents to young people in Church to where they can go to school and bully someone else. Which is what the OP is talking about.

The Jewish religion belonged to the Jews, of which Jesus was one. Everybody knew, and ultimately acknowledged, that the money-changers were trespassing into the area reserved for prayer in the Jewish Temple. Because the money-changers were there, parishioners were being kept from prayer. Jesus was, simply, the one willing to take action to correct the abuse.

The utilization of the Temple areas was apportioned by God when the Temple was built. There was a constitution of Temple usage, if you will. And the money-changers had no place in it. There was room for them OUTSIDE of the Temple, but they had invaded sacred space.

The Pharisees and Temple officials did challenge Jesus as to His actions, ... but they could not deny that He was correct that the money-changers were undermining the true intended use of the Temple.

 

[SheldonCooper]

The Jewish religion belonged to the Jews, of which Jesus was one. Everybody knew, and ultimately acknowledged, that the money-changers were trespassing into the area reserved for prayer in the Jewish Temple. Because the money-changers were there, parishioners were being kept from prayer. Jesus was, simply, the one willing to take action to correct the abuse.

The utilization of the Temple areas was apportioned by God when the Temple was built. There was a constitution of Temple usage, if you will. And the money-changers had no place in it. There was room for them OUTSIDE of the Temple, but they had invaded sacred space.

The Pharisees and Temple officials did challenge Jesus as to His actions, ... but they could not deny that He was correct that the money-changers were undermining the true intended use of the Temple.

And because of that, young people of our time are bullying other kids in schools. Because I'm using this example to respond to the original post. Because the topic is about children being rude, arrogant to other kids. Kids that are in Christian homes. Regardless of what your " break down " is of the scripture, the fact still remains that a young person reading that same text interprets it totally different than an adult. Ergo..

Some child is bullying the original poster's child at school. To the point where she wants to make a chord of whips and find the parent responsible for this child bullying hers. " In the name of Jesus. "

 

[The_Believer7]

And because of that, young people of our time are bullying other kids in schools. Because I'm using this example to respond to the original post. Because the topic is about children being rude, arrogant to other kids. Kids that are in Christian homes. Regardless of what your " break down " is of the scripture, the fact still remains that a young person reading that same text interprets it totally different than an adult. Ergo..

Some child is bullying the original poster's child at school. To the point where she wants to make a chord of whips and find the parent responsible for this child bullying hers. " In the name of Jesus. "

What you want to do is to come up with some allegory relative to the original poster's situation ... to which you can lay the blame upon Jesus.

So far, you have been unsuccessful ... because Jesus didn't bully anyone in the incident you cited. If anything, he acted against the bullies.

 

[SheldonCooper]

So far, you have been unsuccessful ... because Jesus didn't bully anyone in the incident you cited. If anything, he acted against the bullies.

Justifying the possible reality that this example of rage from Jesus influences young people in Christian homes to bully is in no way succeeding in having me to retract my statement. In this nation, violent video games, such as Grand Theft Auto, have been in discussion in regards to the possibility that games with such violent content are having a negative influence on our youth. It's a rather normal conclusion to consider when studying human behavior, the psyche and child development.

Your belief in your system has you to simply retort with " No, He's not a bully " and not once did I make the claim that Jesus was a bully. I'm simply stating that His actions very well may have had an influence on a young person who hasn't quite fully developed their comprehensive reading skills well enough to discern that this is not the example to follow due to the context of the situation Jesus was in, nonetheless, those actions still took place and that young person still knows of that episode of Jesus' life and because of that, possibly felt justified in being a bully due to lack of understanding.

 

[The_Believer7]

Justifying the possible reality that this example of rage from Jesus influences young people in Christian homes to bully is in no way succeeding in having me to retract my statement. In this nation, violent video games, such as Grand Theft Auto, have been in discussion in regards to the possibility that games with such violent content are having a negative influence on our youth. It's a rather normal conclusion to consider when studying human behavior, the psyche and child development.

Your belief in your system has you to simply retort with " No, He's not a bully " and not once did I make the claim that Jesus was a bully. I'm simply stating that His actions very well may have had an influence on a young person who hasn't quite fully developed their comprehensive reading skills well enough to discern that this is not the example to follow due to the context of the situation Jesus was in, nonetheless, those actions still took place and that young person still knows of that episode of Jesus' life and because of that, possibly felt justified in being a bully due to lack of understanding.

Here is the actual text regarding the incident ... it doesn't say that Jesus was enraged, but rather, He did what was necessary to clear an area for prayer for those visiting the Temple. John's passage says that He used an improvised whip, so as to drive out the sheep and cattle which were being improperly housed in the Temple's area for prayer.

"When it was almost time for the Jewish Passover, Jesus went up to Jerusalem. In the temple courts he found people selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money.

So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple courts, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables." – John 2:13-15 NIV

"Jesus entered the temple courts and drove out all who were buying and selling there.

He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves. “It is written,” he said to them, “‘My house will be called a house of prayer,’ but you are making it ‘a den of robbers.’” – Matthew 21:12-13 NIV

 

[SheldonCooper]

Here is the actual text regarding the incident ... it doesn't say that Jesus was enraged, but rather, He did what was necessary to clear an area for prayer for those visiting the Temple.

Fact still remains, Jesus Christ used violence as the necessary strategy to drive people out of a Temple that in context was under the leadership of the Sadduccees and Pharisees who taught out of the Torah. A document that prophesied about the coming Messiah. That Messiah had come yet they didn't believe it so much. Thus, in context, Jesus Christ was " trespassing " regardless of the " Truth of the matter " because the people in that temple and those over the proceedings of that Temple did not have sufficient evidence that Jesus was indeed the Messiah that was prophesied to come..

When you read that in proper context is how you can easily apply that to present day because you used yourself as an example in regards to being a co-manager of a church and if someone came in like Jesus did claiming to be the owner of that church then obviously they would need to provide their credentials or some form of document stating that their claim is true. If this said person didn't provide such material and proceeded to drive out all pedestrians from the lobby area while flipping over chairs, I'm pretty sure the police would've been called.

You don't read the biblical text from your vantage point, you read it from the people of that time's vantage point. When you do that, you will clearly be reminded that no matter how you word it or interpret it..Jesus the Christ resorted to violent acts to escort people and wildlife out of a temple that He claims belonged to His Father and His only evidence available to back up his claim was the Book of Isaiah. And even when He did read that earlier in the text prior to this manic episode..

Not everyone believed Him.

In no way, contextually, does this justify using violence as a rational way to handle this situation. And has a very strong case in the area of influence on young people today who are growing up in christian homes. With all the light on the name Jesus, it's very plausible that a young person can read this episode in the Bible and assume that it's okay to have a moment of rage at school.

 

[Hearingheart]

Please teach your kids not to be arrogant, rude, hateful, bullies to kids who aren't Christians.

My oldest son has many struggles (but has been doing pretty well lately, all things considered). One of his struggles is that his father and step-mother are not Christians and have a strong influence on him. I have raised him as a Christian, and he was saved and baptised (his choice). He has since decided he is not a Christian.

So these "righteous, Jesus-loving" kids think this is reason to be outraged and mean.

I have spent probably the last four years getting him to calm down his anger, arrogance, and frustration over the differences between us spiritually. I have put a lot of work in teaching him not to be rude or mean to people for believing, and to be respectful and polite.

**I have trained him to not be mean to Christian kids.**

He has been verbally attacked and harassed by some of the more vocal Christian kids at his school for a couple of years now.

This last week there was a girl who was angry because one of the science teachers was telling her she had to take a biology course the next year. She doesn't want to take biology because she doesn't believe in evolution. She wants to skip the whole entire class. She obsessed over it, and made it an issue. She kept talking about it during lunches and in classes for two days.

My son is a good listener, and he just let her go on and on about it without saying anything. After a while she asked him why he wasn't saying anything. He told her it didn't matter to him, and that it was her choice (it's really not, she's required to have biology). So she asked him how he felt, if he agreed with her. He told her no, that he thought she was having a reaction that was over the top, and she doesn't have to believe in evolution but she doesn't have to get upset just because she has been told about the class or that it is included in the course work.

Her anger shifted to him, and she yelled at him in front of other kids. She spent the rest of the day talking bad about him to other students and spreading it around the school, saying bad things about him that have nothing to do with the conflict she brought on.

I am so angry. I want to know who her parents are, and what church she goes to. I want them made aware of this, and I want them to stop it. If they don't, I want them called out for it.

This is soo wrong. Jesus did not train his disciples to do it this way.

Well, since he had guts to sit with her at lunch and listen to her rant and THEN honestly answer her question, maybe it's time he called her out on her faith.

Maybe he should gather some bible verses about love on paper and ask her is she believes them to be true. If she says yes, then he could ask her to prove it by living it. Then again, it may go over her head because she's so blinded by hatred.

Prayers for you and your son.

 

[The_Believer7]

Fact still remains, Jesus Christ used violence as the necessary strategy to drive people out of a Temple that in context was under the leadership of the Sadduccees and Pharisees who taught out of the Torah. A document that prophesied about the coming Messiah. That Messiah had come yet they didn't believe it so much. Thus, in context, Jesus Christ was " trespassing " regardless of the " Truth of the matter " because the people in that temple and those over the proceedings of that Temple did not have sufficient evidence that Jesus was indeed the Messiah that was prophesied to come..

When you read that in proper context is how you can easily apply that to present day because you used yourself as an example in regards to being a co-manager of a church and if someone came in like Jesus did claiming to be the owner of that church then obviously they would need to provide their credentials or some form of document stating that their claim is true. If this said person didn't provide such material and proceeded to drive out all pedestrians from the lobby area while flipping over chairs, I'm pretty sure the police would've been called.

You don't read the biblical text from your vantage point, you read it from the people of that time's vantage point. When you do that, you will clearly be reminded that no matter how you word it or interpret it..Jesus the Christ resorted to violent acts to escort people and wildlife out of a temple that He claims belonged to His Father and His only evidence available to back up his claim was the Book of Isaiah. And even when He did read that earlier in the text prior to this manic episode..

Not everyone believed Him.

In no way, contextually, does this justify using violence as a rational way to handle this situation. And has a very strong case in the area of influence on young people today who are growing up in christian homes. With all the light on the name Jesus, it's very plausible that a young person can read this episode in the Bible and assume that it's okay to have a moment of rage at school.

Once again ... from the vantage point of those who's toes Jesus most effectively stepped on in this incident (i.e. the Temple officials and the Pharisees), ... they had to ultimately concede that Jesus was right ... in correcting a known and grievous wrong.

What you are really arguing here (now) ... is that there is an appropriate way in which to correct an apparent wrong. History records, however, that the righting of societal wrongs often comes by use of force (i.e. the Civil War to end slavery, the First and Second World Wars, to end the threat of world conquest, etc.).

It is ironic that, in a discussion which began with a mother's plea for parental attention to potential bullies and bullying, ... you have chosen to focus upon an incident where a societal change agent comes upon a circumstance where His people are being deprived of a vital element of their daily lives, ... and rather than just sit back and do nothing, ... takes it upon Himself to address the wrong.

The true bullies in the circumstance you cite ... are the money-changers/livestock managers ... who had forced their way in to a space reserved for prayer. And those who had the responsibility for addressing this trespass were just standing around and letting it happen. So, when someone comes along and rights the wrong, ... you complain, ... because he used an improvised whip (of cords) ... to drive the animals out of the Temple, ... and overturned the tables of the sellers and money-changers, ... who had overstepped their societal boundaries.

What is the saying ... “All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.” ?

I assume that you would have preferred that Jesus do nothing in this circumstance ?

 

[SheldonCooper]

I assume that you would have preferred that Jesus do nothing in this circumstance ?

Exactly. Because He was doing nothing all along. Suddenly, on this particular day was the first time a temple was used for business other than prayer? Or was this the first day He actually seen it first hand? Or did I read it wrong when He said He's the Son of God and His time had not yet come to make the Temple obsolete.

Exactly, what is the real message here? You want to reference secular means of solving issues in comparison to a righteous figure of holy regard such as Jesus Christ? Who's Father made the proclamation to Moses on Mt. Sinai " Thou shalt not kill "...the same Messiah who said if you hate someone you murdered them in your heart.

Jesus and His Father says one thing yet DO another and you are actually trying to have a legitimate argument here? Because humans follow examples a bit more instinctively than just verbal utterances. And so..

We come back to the subject at hand at how Jesus' actions was possibly misinterpreted by a minor and they reacted in the form of being a bully.