Womens roles in the church

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Citizen of the Kingdom

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In my shorter and much more concise post I said I agree in principle but not always with what you wrote.

I agree more fully with the Bible. Which has put women in roles over men occasionally. Deborah the judge.

I actually side with the Bible over women not leading the Church or say teaching in seminary. Or submitting to the husband if he is a good Chriatian man. After all the influence of progesterone does influence the way women see the world, even if we hardly know it ourselves until it lowers in the system. Men can be a lot more steady in there thinking.

But women need to be taught to not be submissive when under spiritual or other abuse for example. It is something which gets missed out. Letting others continue in sin against God by submitting isn't love it is enabling and that was the point I was trying to make.
There is no partiality with God. When God sets an example is is for all, and besides you only have any of that on Paul's sayso and no other witness. Peter's example is to unbelieving husbands and I believe the church should be mature enough to move away from that.
 
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Sam91

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There is no partiality with God. When God sets an example is is for all, and besides you only have any of that on Paul's sayso and no other witness. Peter's example is to unbelieving husbands and I believe the church should be mature enough to move away from that.
I am not grasping what you are saying to me. Sorry.
 
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Sam91

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No need for you to listen then.You can take that as silence.
Well I did not speak of partiality, nor quote Peter or Paul. I spoke of scripture as a whole. I could have quoted those verses in Ephesians 5, 1 Peter 3 and Collosians three. Also a number of proverbs, Ruth etc but chose not too. I was making a broad point.

However, your reply was at a complete tangent to what I was saying that I am not sure what it is you were saying.

EDIT: Or rather writing. I get part that now. That was a little... um harsh.
 
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thesunisout

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If Gentiles were supposed to be leaders in the church, why didn't the Lord choose any Gentiles to be apostles?

Matthew 15:24

But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

No it isn't; that is the whole point.
If it was clear, we would not have these endless debates, and no church would ordain women - unless you are suggesting that clergy, and learned, intelligent, spiritual bishops have wilfully chosen to ignore Scripture and do it anyway.

Read Revelation 2 and 3; churches do all sorts of things the Lord doesn't want them to do. The reason we have endless debates is not because it isn't clear, but because people react to it in their flesh. Society teaches us men and women are the same; the bible teaches us men and women are different, and have different roles and authority.

All Christians - God's children - have a right, and duty, to do whatever their Father calls them to do. It doesn't matter if men are in "women's" roles, or vice versa. It is God who calls and appoints us to serve him.
In the OT, Deborah was judge over the whole nation; men went to her for advice and counsel.
Huldah was a prophet; men chose to consult her when they wanted a word from God.

You're correct in that God can appoint a woman to do what He wishes but we are not to do anything outside of what He has commanded.
 
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thesunisout

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Then why did Priscilla teach Apollos? Why was it that our Lord and Savior chose a woman to be the first person to preach the Good News of His resurrection?

Priscilla was under the authority of her husband, who was there with her. Mary was a witness, not a preacher.
 
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Strong in Him

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Matthew 15:24

But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

He healed Gentiles, revealed to a Gentile woman that he was the Messiah, ate and drank with Gentiles and commended them for their faith.
He could have easily chosen one to follow him.

Read Revelation 2 and 3; churches do all sorts of things the Lord doesn't want them to do. The reason we have endless debates is not because it isn't clear, but because people react to it in their flesh.

No, that's your explanation for it.
If a woman is called by God to do something and serve him in a certain way, that is not "reacting in the flesh" to Scripture.

Society teaches us men and women are the same; the bible teaches us men and women are different, and have different roles and authority.

The opposite
A lot of societies teach that women are objects with no role in life than to be submissive to men.
Even in the "enlightened west" women are paid less than men and discriminated against.

The church, on the other hand, says that women have equal worth and rights to men and are equally valuable in God's sight.

That was how it was in Jesus' day, and look at how he treated women.

You're correct in that God can appoint a woman to do what He wishes but we are not to do anything outside of what He has commanded.

He hasn't commanded women not to preach, proclaim the Gospel or teach others about him, or he wouldn't be calling us to do it.

The problem comes when people can't accept that and blame, or vilify, women who answer his call.
 
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LoveofTruth

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Define this please. Women can teach women, does that mean they can only display studies on women's forums so as not to offend men should the men's eyes behold their nakedness? It seems to me that Jesus Christ is our covering.
I am speaking specifically about women’s roles in the church when they gather together in Christ in others homes as they did in the scripture. And also the roles of husband and wife in the marriage.

As far as evangelism to the lost that is a different discussion. But I believe Pricilla was still under the authority of her husband and submissive when she was evangelizing Apollo. All believers can give the testimony of Jesus this is the spirit of prophecy.
 
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LoveofTruth

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Define this please. Women can teach women, does that mean they can only display studies on women's forums so as not to offend men should the men's eyes behold their nakedness? It seems to me that Jesus Christ is our covering.
As far as in these sites this is not a church gathering but more like a marketplace discussion. Still, godly women should consider what they say to other Christian men and not dominate over them by their wording and judgement
 
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Strong in Him

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Priscilla was under the authority of her husband, who was there with her. Mary was a witness, not a preacher.

It doesn't say that Priscilla was under the authority of her husband, nor what her contribution was; for all we know she could have done most of the teaching.

Mary Magdalene was chosen to proclaim the news of the risen Christ, to a group of men who didn't believe it would happen.
Women were considered to be unreliable witnesses. No one called, or asked, them in a court of law; Christ did.
 
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LoveofTruth

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No it isn't; that is the whole point.
If it was clear, we would not have these endless debates, and no church would ordain women - unless you are suggesting that clergy, and learned, intelligent, spiritual bishops have wilfully chosen to ignore Scripture and do it anyway.

Yes, that seems to be the way many do things. They just do what is right in their own eyes and they follow the corrupt flow of the world and the fashions and likes of the day. And yes many try to avoid some clear scriptures or to explain them away with many twisted arguments.

In the OT, Deborah was judge over the whole nation; men went to her for advice and counsel.
Huldah was a prophet; men chose to consult her when they wanted a word from God.

If you read closely my original post again I believe I addressed this. Deborah was a prophetess. This meant that when she spoke it was not so much her speaking as the Spirit of God speaking in her.
 
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Andrew Jeremiah

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Women’s ministry and roles in the church

Women can be called of God to pastor, apostle, evangelist, teacher, or prophet.

However, women cannot be "Elder" since she cannot be the husband of one wife.

Ya falla?
 
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LoveofTruth

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It doesn't say that Priscilla was under the authority of her husband,
They had a church meeting in their homes in Rome and Corinth. They would have followed the order of God for a godly home as Paul defined.

“ 1 Timothy 3 - 5. (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

Ephesians 5 - 22. Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. 23. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. 24. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. 25. Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;”

And Peters direction,

1 Peter 3 - 1. Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands;...”
 
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LoveofTruth

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That doesn't prove that God will never call women to be elders.
There are Elder women but they have different functions in the body .Now this section I quote is about elder women and widows but you can see some of their works.

1 Timothy 5 - 2. The elder women as mothers; the younger as sisters, with all purity...9. Let not a widow be taken into the number under threescore years old, having been the wife of one man, 10. Well reported of for good works; if she have brought up children, if she have lodged strangers, if she have washed the saints' feet, if she have relieved the afflicted, if she have diligently followed every good work.”

And

Titus 2 - 1. But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine: 2. That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience. 3. The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; 4. That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, 5. To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed. “
 
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LoveofTruth

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Women can be called of God to pastor, apostle, evangelist, teacher, or prophet.

However, women cannot be "Elder" since she cannot be the husband of one wife.

Ya falla?
Not according to God speaking through Paul

We read,

“ 1 Timothy 2 - 11. Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 14. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 15. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.”
 
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LoveofTruth

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No need for you to listen then.You can take that as silence.
In the OT we read a verse like this as a rebuke to the people

“ Isaiah 3 - 12. As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.”
 
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Priscilla was under the authority of her husband, who was there with her. Mary was a witness, not a preacher.
So a woman can teach men if her husband is present. Where is that stated in scripture? And yes, Mary did preach the Good News. Preach simply means publicly proclaim a religious message which is what she did.
 
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LoveofTruth

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To all consider this rebuke to God’s people

“ Isaiah 3 - 12. As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.”
 
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Sam91

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There are Ekder women but they have different functions in the body .Now this section I quote is about elder women and widows but you can see some of their works.

1 Timothy 5 - 2. The elder women as mothers; the younger as sisters, with all purity...9. Let not a widow be taken into the number under threescore years old, having been the wife of one man, 10. Well reported of for good works; if she have brought up children, if she have lodged strangers, if she have washed the saints' feet, if she have relieved the afflicted, if she have diligently followed every good work.”

And

Titus 2 - 1. But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine: 2. That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience. 3. The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; 4. That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, 5. To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed. “
Hold on. If I may. 1Timothy 5 is talking about the protection giving to widows. In verse 2 it is also just talking about older women, not elder. At least, that is how it reads in my Bibles.

PS 1 timothy 5:14 is interestingly worded in the NASB I am sure it is translated differently in other versions.
 
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