Biblical, Enclosed Flat Earth and Firmament

Do you think enclosed flat earth is possible from scripture, or think it's IMPOSSIBLE?

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  • IMPOSSIBLE


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Halbhh

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Sacrifice to idols, idol worship, idolatry, not causing a weak person to stumble concerning the faith. I personally don't use the NIV anymore although I started with NIV Study Bible.

I found the King James original 1611 came alive to me though the Holy Spirit. The NIV and many other Bibles have changed thousands of words, destroying the word of truth. I am not puffed up because I only quote what God says concerning salvation and creation and the earth and cosmos. God speaks to us very plainly and clearly.

I used to feel condemned and unworthy every time I picked a Bible and read the gospels. Those are essential to every new believer. It wasn't until I read Paul's 13 epistles that I began to hear and understand both salvation and a beginning to understanding the entire Old Testament. The whole Bible became open to me. I read no other books.

The flat earth topic is not a doctrine and has nothing to do with salvation. It does however lead MORE people TO God and Christ than it will ever take away, if not believing in God is even possible with flat earth. I have posted testimonies in the Biblical flat earth thread. Ask me any questions about what the Bible says and I will give my best interpretation. I am not trying to be a teacher or pretend that I am always right or that I know the whole Bible and all the mysteries of life but I do rightly divide the word of truth.

For instance, we know that Jesus was not sent BUT to the lost sheep of Israel. Although Christ did preach to a Gentile and no doubt Gentiles heard and believed and saved but He preached the Kingdom, whereas the Risen Ascended Lord Jesus Christ cane to Paul and chose him to be the Apostle to the Gentiles beginning in the book of Acts Chapter 9. If you were to read one book in the Bible I would say to read Ephesians to start out a new believer after Matthew, Mark Luke and John.

The book of Ephesians is written to US, me and you, Gentiles, unless you are an ancestral Israelite. The whole entire Bible is written FOR us but the whole entire Bible is NOT written TO us. Rightly diving shows things that differ are not the same. God Bless.

Ok. Regardless of how anyone comes to Christ, He tells us clearly in Matthew 7:24-27 what will allow them to endure and make it.

Only if they continue in Him in the way He says here can their faith endure and weather the storms that will come upon us all.

I'd still be very cautious about blocking some who are interested in the Bible when they get scared off by really odd sounding geometry stuff.

It's not the Good News, it's not the Gospel, it's not the message that saves.

If you read Paul....
 
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Halbhh

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Sacrifice to idols, idol worship, idolatry, not causing a weak person to stumble concerning the faith. I personally don't use the NIV anymore although I started with NIV Study Bible.

I found the King James original 1611 came alive to me through the Holy Spirit. The NIV and many other Bibles have changed thousands of words, destroying the word of truth. I am not puffed up because I only quote what God says concerning salvation and creation and the earth and cosmos. God speaks to us very plainly and clearly.

I used to feel condemned and unworthy every time I picked a Bible and read the gospels. Those are essential to every new believer. It wasn't until I read Paul's 13 epistles that I began to hear and understand both salvation and a beginning to understanding the entire Old Testament. The whole Bible became open to me. I read no other books.

The flat earth topic is not a doctrine and has nothing to do with salvation. It does however lead MORE people TO God and Christ than it will ever take away, if not believing in God is even possible with flat earth. I have posted testimonies in the Biblical flat earth thread. Ask me any questions about what the Bible says and I will give my best interpretation. I am not trying to be a teacher or pretend that I am always right or that I know the whole Bible and all the mysteries of life but I do rightly divide the word of truth.

For instance, we know that Jesus was not sent BUT to the lost sheep of Israel. Although Christ did preach to a Gentile and no doubt Gentiles heard and believed and saved but He preached the Kingdom, whereas the Risen Ascended Lord Jesus Christ cane to Paul and chose him to be the Apostle to the Gentiles beginning in the book of Acts Chapter 9. If you were to read one book in the Bible I would say to read Ephesians to start out a new believer after Matthew, Mark Luke and John.

The book of Ephesians is written to US, me and you, Gentiles, unless you are an ancestral Israelite. The whole entire Bible is written FOR us but the whole entire Bible is NOT written TO us. Rightly diving shows things that differ are not the same. God Bless.


If you read Paul, then you read what Paul says:

Romans 10:17

Do you believe Paul got it right?
 
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patrick jane

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Ok. Regardless of how anyone comes to Christ, He tells us clearly in Matthew 7:24-27 what will allow them to endure and make it.

Only if they continue in Him in the way He says here can their faith endure and weather the storms that will come upon us all.

I'd still be very cautious about blocking some who are interested in the Bible when they get scared off by really odd sounding geometry stuff.

It's not the Good News, it's not the Gospel, it's not the message that saves.

If you read Paul....
Nope. But thanks for stopping by. You didn't read my whole post that fast. Good day.
 
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patrick jane

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If you read Paul, then you read what Paul says:

Romans 10:17

Do you believe Paul got it right?
BTW, Romans 10:17 is in my signature at the bottom of every post I make along with the gospel of our salvation. Discussing flat earth has no bearing on salvation or the truth of Bible facts. It is simply believing every word that proceedeth from the mouth of God. (Matthew - Deuteronomy)

Romans is also a very good book to start with after learning M, M, L, & J.
 
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Halbhh

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. Ask me any questions about what the Bible says and I will give my best interpretation.

What does Romans 10:13 mean to you?

What does Romans 10:17 mean to you?
(Does faith that saves come from something else that is not the word of Christ?)
 
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Halbhh

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The flat earth topic is not a doctrine and has nothing to do with salvation. It does however lead MORE people TO God and Christ than it will ever take away, if not believing in God is even possible with flat earth.

In view of this you said about leading people to God, regarding Romans 10:17? Still you feel the flat Earth message you've developed is the way to tell people about Christ?
 
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In view of this you said about leading people to God, regarding Romans 10:17? Still you feel the flat Earth message you've developed is the way to tell people about Christ?
It is certainly one way that God uses. I do nothing, God gets the praise and glory.
 
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patrick jane

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What does Romans 10:13 mean to you?

What does Romans 10:17 mean to you?
(Does faith that saves come from something else that is not the word of Christ?)
If you seriously and sincerely seek God, He will answer and baptize you through the Holy Spirit. 10:17 is essential as well, one cannot scream, "Lord please help me and teach me" one time and be answered without HEARING as well. One must repent, which by definition is a change of mind and heart, and turning to the Lord.
 
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Halbhh

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Sacrifice to idols, idol worship, idolatry, not causing a weak person to stumble concerning the faith. I personally don't use the NIV anymore although I started with NIV Study Bible.

I found the King James original 1611 came alive to me through the Holy Spirit. The NIV and many other Bibles have changed thousands of words, destroying the word of truth. I am not puffed up because I only quote what God says concerning salvation and creation and the earth and cosmos. God speaks to us very plainly and clearly.

I used to feel condemned and unworthy every time I picked a Bible and read the gospels. Those are essential to every new believer. It wasn't until I read Paul's 13 epistles that I began to hear and understand both salvation and a beginning to understanding the entire Old Testament. The whole Bible became open to me. I read no other books.

The flat earth topic is not a doctrine and has nothing to do with salvation. It does however lead MORE people TO God and Christ than it will ever take away, if not believing in God is even possible with flat earth. I have posted testimonies in the Biblical flat earth thread. Ask me any questions about what the Bible says and I will give my best interpretation. I am not trying to be a teacher or pretend that I am always right or that I know the whole Bible and all the mysteries of life but I do rightly divide the word of truth.

For instance, we know that Jesus was not sent BUT to the lost sheep of Israel. Although Christ did preach to a Gentile and no doubt Gentiles heard and believed and saved but He preached the Kingdom, whereas the Risen Ascended Lord Jesus Christ cane to Paul and chose him to be the Apostle to the Gentiles beginning in the book of Acts Chapter 9. If you were to read one book in the Bible I would say to read Ephesians to start out a new believer after Matthew, Mark Luke and John.

The book of Ephesians is written to US, me and you, Gentiles, unless you are an ancestral Israelite. The whole entire Bible is written FOR us but the whole entire Bible is NOT written TO us. Rightly diving shows things that differ are not the same. God Bless.

Carefully reading every word you wrote, I could try to only use things in Ephesians, which, like you, I know, but we cannot. We cannot put aside Christ's Words where He said He had other flocks to call (you and me, gentiles; in John chapter 10), and where He told us (you and me also) that the only rock that will allow us, you and me, to endure the storms of life that will come to all is only this, He said --

24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it."

This means you and I though we have faith right now, that we won't continue to endure unless we are hearing and doing His words to us in the gospels, such as: "forgive....seventy times seven" and "love one another". Actually doing, puttting into practice. Not otherwise. That's all I want to know that you have heard. I love Romans 10:13 since it happened very dramatically for me. I'll find that post I wrote about it, just a minute...
 
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patrick jane

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Once again, God is the only One or thing that can move the established, fixed, set, immovable, never to be moved, fastened, on foundations WITH a Cornerstone earth. That's how God built the stationary earth. I don't know a lot about Wormwood but there are dark spheres or disc like heavenly bodies that we can't see. There are several other verses Where God alone moves the earth. IMO, we're not flying and spinning on a ball with made up gravity, dark matter, dark energy, (all required for the maths to work), "beg" bang, we came from monkeys by way of a single celled organism, "deep space" , travelling the stars, seeding other "planets" and the list goes on. It's like a sci-fi fantasy world that 99% of of the population can't get enough of. For me, it's much easier and more logical to trust the word of God, the evidence we have so far and our SENSES.

Isaiah 24:1 KJV - Behold, the Lord maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof.

4372447e74ea1a5e695ff0e4a42ac8a8.jpg
 
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Halbhh

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If you seriously and sincerely seek God, He will answer and baptize you through the Holy Spirit. 10:17 is essential as well, one cannot scream, "Lord please help me and teach me" one time and be answered without HEARING as well. One must repent, which by definition is a change of mind and heart, and turning to the Lord.

This happened to me. Very wonderful:

He Saves!
 
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patrick jane

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Carefully reading every word you wrote, I could try to only use things in Ephesians, which, like you, I know, but we cannot. We cannot put aside Christ's Words where He said He had other flocks to call (you and me, gentiles; in John chapter 10), and where He told us (you and me also) that the only rock that will allow us, you and me, to endure the storms of life that will come to all is only this, He said --

24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it."

This means you and I though we have faith right now, that we won't continue to endure unless we are hearing and doing His words to us in the gospels, such as: "forgive....seventy times seven" and "love one another". Actually doing, puttting into practice. Not otherwise. That's all I want to know that you have heard. I love Romans 10:13 since it happened very dramatically for me. I'll find that post I wrote about it, just a minute...
Amen, brother !!! No we cannot bypass or ignore one word in the Bible, you are correct. Especially Jesus' own words. These few scriptures I'm posting came to mind and here are some more in this link :

Bible Verses About Gods Word - King James Bible

Isaiah 40:8 KJV - The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.

Proverbs 30:4-5 KJV -
Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?

5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.

John 16:13-14 KJV -

Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
 
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patrick jane

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Good works are the result of being In Christ.

Galatians 2:20 KJV - I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.


OF the Son - His faith is what counts most of all.


Matthew 17:20 KJV - And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

YOUR Faith does not save you or get you to Heaven.
 
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patrick jane

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Does the sun really LOOK 93,000,000 miles away? I don't think for a minute it is anymore. Many flat earth believers think the sun may be about 3,000 miles above the earth at it's peak. I've heard a thousand miles but I disagree with this although, maybe at sunset it does get lower above the earth.
3 Minutes
 
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Does the sun really LOOK 93,000,000 miles away? I don't think for a minute it is anymore.

When I look up at the sun and then hold my hand up to it, my hand LOOKS much larger than the sun.
 
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patrick jane

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Vedic astronomy was predicting eclipses perfectly for thousands of years, they assumed the earth is flat. I also heard someone read written commentary from men at the London Royal Astronomical Society from the 1800s whereby their calculations and conclusions and observations favored flat earth. I search Google with not much luck but I'll look for the video again. Who knows what secret information the vatican has as they've been looking up more than anybody for centuries. They have locked secure records from many different interests throughout ancient history until today. It's no secret that they do.

Vedic Astronomy
The Vedas, in old Sanskrit language, are an accumulation of knowledge, over the past 4000-7000 years. They provide fascinating social, spiritual, and naked eye astronomical observations from Indian subcontinent for their period. Many hundreds of ‘Drishtrara’s or visionary composers (Rishi’s) have contributed to Vedas over many generations of time. Though much of the material has been lost, currently four Vedas and vedangas consisting of Brahmana’s, Aranayakas, Upanishads and sutras’ are available. The great epics of Ramayana and Mahabharata are intricately woven with Vedic naked eye astronomy based calendar. Vedic culture created an astronomical secular lunar / solar calendar of 28 star based day count, six seasons, four Ayana’s (Uttara, Pitru, Deva & Dakshina) based on Equinoxes/Solstices.

For nearly 150-200 years, many European and Indian Indologists have tried to understand this old body of knowledge and comment up on the material. The opinions of these writers about Vedas vary from a profound body of knowledge to trivial and some times mischievous.

This web site is dedicated to studying astronomical references contained in Veda Sanskrit material. The goal is to analyze the same using modern astronomical tools to arrive at time antiquity, uniqueness and a better understanding.

The list of Articles are:

1. Astronomy in Vedanga Jyotishya

For those interested in Vedic Astronomy, a very old and significant Vedic work is Vedanga Jyotishya by Lagadha from circa 1400 BC. This article provides a graphic picture of material in Vedanga Jyotishya based on work by Kuppanna Sastry



2. Names of Stars in the Vedas

Humans have gazed at stars for many thousands of years. Different cultures, based on their own innovation have named visible stars and star groups by native proper names. In some cultures groups of stars in the sun-moon ecliptic plane were named as zodiacs. Many of these names have died out and are dying out due to slow tendency toward unilingual-unicultural pressures, while some other name systems just survive.

This article deals with Star names from (Bharat) India. This system, which is more than 5000 years old, is based on well-developed naked eye astronomy and moon pointer calendar system from that period. The twenty-eight daily star names and six seasons are unique to India. The birthstar of many Indians, used even today, represent the moon pointed star name at the time of birth. (Unlike Western zodiacs which are sun pointed). In this article, the origins of the twenty-eight star names and their modern astronomical identity are analyzed, illustrated and tabulated, with references to their Vedic origins.

3. Comparison of Star Name Identities

The second article compares the astronomical identity proposed in first article with those indicated by R H Allen. R H Allen’s classical work is from end of 19th century and covers star name comparisons for many cultures including Chinese, Arabian, European and ‘Hindu’. While many astronomical identities between the two works with respect to Indian stars coincide, there are some significant differences also. These differences are explored.

4. Dating the Mahabharatha - Two eclipses in thirteen days

Mahabharata, by venerable Veda Vyasa, is an important epic from India. It is much larger than Homer’s Iliad. The traditional Indian ethos considers this to be a major historical event from a period nearly 5000-6000 years old. But like Homer’s Iliad (which is now considered historical based on evidence), doubts about Mahabharata’s historicity has been and is currently challenged by many. There are references to Mahabharata by Panini in circa 450 BC. The Mahabharata story is more than 100,000 verses in Sanskrit, in anushtap chandas prosody. It is rich with a large number of astronomical observations about planet positions, their retrograde motion, and eclipses in period approaching the Mahabharata war.

In the first article, one unique statement from Mahabharata Bhishma Parva (Chapter) that ‘Two eclipses occurred in 13 days’ prior to war is analyzed. Can a solar-lunar eclipse pair occur in 13 days? Were these seen? In this modern computer era, we can use mathematical modeling, large and refined astronomical databases, and complex astronomical computer software to accurately back project all possible eclipses over the past 5000 years. Details of such a study is presented. The article concludes that naked eye visible solar-lunar eclipse pairs can occur in a short 332 hours occasionally, which is less than 14 days (336 hours is 14 days). These eclipses would occur through the transition of sunrise or sunset. Nearly 30 pairs of such eclipse pairs that were visible in Northern India during 700 BC to 3300 BC have been identified.

5. Atri's solar eclipse

In Rig Veda & Sankhyayana Brahmana, Atri Rishi has described a total solar eclipse that occurred three days before autumnal equinox. Is this information adequate to identify and retro date that eclipse? Famous Bal Gangadhar Tilak, in his book Orion describes unsuccessful efforts in late 1800’s to date Atri’s eclipse. This article revisits the issue of dating Atri’s solar eclipse in the present computer era with vastly superior mathematical models of heavenly body motion.




The Vedas, in old Sanskrit language, are an accumulation of knowledge, over the past 4000-7000 years. They provide fascinating social, spiritual, and naked eye astronomical observations from Indian subcontinent for their period. Many hundreds of ‘Drishtrara’s or visionary composers (Rishi’s) have contributed to Vedas over many generations of time. Though much of the material has been lost, currently four Vedas and vedangas consisting of Brahmana’s, Aranayakas, Upanishads and sutras’ are available. The great epics of Ramayana and Mahabharata are intricately woven with Vedic naked eye astronomy based calendar. Vedic culture created an astronomical secular lunar / solar calendar of 28 star based day count, six seasons, four Ayana’s (Uttara, Pitru, Deva & Dakshina) based on Equinoxes/Solstices.

For nearly 150-200 years, many European and Indian Indologists have tried to understand this old body of knowledge and comment up on the material. The opinions of these writers about Vedas vary from a profound body of knowledge to trivial and some times mischievous.

This web site is dedicated to studying astronomical references contained in Veda Sanskrit material. The goal is to analyze the same using modern astronomical tools to arrive at time antiquity, uniqueness and a better understanding.

The list of Articles are:

1. Astronomy in Vedanga Jyotishya

For those interested in Vedic Astronomy, a very old and significant Vedic work is Vedanga Jyotishya by Lagadha from circa 1400 BC. This article provides a graphic picture of material in Vedanga Jyotishya based on work by Kuppanna Sastry



2. Names of Stars in the Vedas

Humans have gazed at stars for many thousands of years. Different cultures, based on their own innovation have named visible stars and star groups by native proper names. In some cultures groups of stars in the sun-moon ecliptic plane were named as zodiacs. Many of these names have died out and are dying out due to slow tendency toward unilingual-unicultural pressures, while some other name systems just survive.

This article deals with Star names from (Bharat) India. This system, which is more than 5000 years old, is based on well-developed naked eye astronomy and moon pointer calendar system from that period. The twenty-eight daily star names and six seasons are unique to India. The birthstar of many Indians, used even today, represent the moon pointed star name at the time of birth. (Unlike Western zodiacs which are sun pointed). In this article, the origins of the twenty-eight star names and their modern astronomical identity are analyzed, illustrated and tabulated, with references to their Vedic origins.

3. Comparison of Star Name Identities

The second article compares the astronomical identity proposed in first article with those indicated by R H Allen. R H Allen’s classical work is from end of 19th century and covers star name comparisons for many cultures including Chinese, Arabian, European and ‘Hindu’. While many astronomical identities between the two works with respect to Indian stars coincide, there are some significant differences also. These differences are explored.

4. Dating the Mahabharatha - Two eclipses in thirteen days

Mahabharata, by venerable Veda Vyasa, is an important epic from India. It is much larger than Homer’s Iliad. The traditional Indian ethos considers this to be a major historical event from a period nearly 5000-6000 years old. But like Homer’s Iliad (which is now considered historical based on evidence), doubts about Mahabharata’s historicity has been and is currently challenged by many. There are references to Mahabharata by Panini in circa 450 BC. The Mahabharata story is more than 100,000 verses in Sanskrit, in anushtap chandas prosody. It is rich with a large number of astronomical observations about planet positions, their retrograde motion, and eclipses in period approaching the Mahabharata war.

In the first article, one unique statement from Mahabharata Bhishma Parva (Chapter) that ‘Two eclipses occurred in 13 days’ prior to war is analyzed. Can a solar-lunar eclipse pair occur in 13 days? Were these seen? In this modern computer era, we can use mathematical modeling, large and refined astronomical databases, and complex astronomical computer software to accurately back project all possible eclipses over the past 5000 years. Details of such a study is presented. The article concludes that naked eye visible solar-lunar eclipse pairs can occur in a short 332 hours occasionally, which is less than 14 days (336 hours is 14 days). These eclipses would occur through the transition of sunrise or sunset. Nearly 30 pairs of such eclipse pairs that were visible in Northern India during 700 BC to 3300 BC have been identified.

5. Atri's solar eclipse

In Rig Veda & Sankhyayana Brahmana, Atri Rishi has described a total solar eclipse that occurred three days before autumnal equinox. Is this information adequate to identify and retro date that eclipse? Famous Bal Gangadhar Tilak, in his book Orion describes unsuccessful efforts in late 1800’s to date Atri’s eclipse. This article revisits the issue of dating Atri’s solar eclipse in the present computer era with vastly superior mathematical models of heavenly body motion.
 
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patrick jane

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I've seen a round Earth from an airplane. If you've flown you've seen it, too. Explain that. I haven't read all of this thread so maybe someone has already tried to explain that away.
Were you over 60 MILES high? Or over 100,000 to 120,000 feet as some experts say would have to be? NASA says 60 MILES, over 300,000 feet. Planes nor jets fly that high so you are being deceptive.

Link :
Can you see the Earth's curvature at a high altitude? - Quora

main-qimg-3688bb536d5dc9f58a20954a8a2daade.webp


6bbe52af2e4bb185a7b6289d1d20d68a.jpg


d23428521e606c2e5ba50ad2de608c5f.jpg


24de17c502a2a05e6be3a5233aa7c2f8.jpg

a7b415128cf26c95a34dac1f30ff477a.jpg
 
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Were you over 60 MILES high? Or over 100,000 to 120,000 feet as some experts say would have to be? NASA says 60 MILES, over 300,000 feet. Planes nor jets fly that high so you are being deceptive.

Link :
Can you see the Earth's curvature at a high altitude? - Quora

main-qimg-3688bb536d5dc9f58a20954a8a2daade.webp


6bbe52af2e4bb185a7b6289d1d20d68a.jpg


d23428521e606c2e5ba50ad2de608c5f.jpg


24de17c502a2a05e6be3a5233aa7c2f8.jpg

a7b415128cf26c95a34dac1f30ff477a.jpg

The "arguments" you present in those pictures you keep posting are so easy to refute that it's a wonder why you keep posting them. The one about how we can take pictures of things millions of light years away but not building and ships, etc. "leaning over the curvature of the earth" is my favorite. Do I need to remind you that the things being photographed millions of light years away are galaxies? Quite a bit larger than buildings and ships.
 
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