Divorce and Remarriage

[RDKirk]

HYPO OP: "both parties were "backslidden""

Isn't that a Baptist term?

OSAS for believer.
Never saved for UN-believer.

For Israel slideth back as a backsliding heifer: now the LORD will feed them as a lamb in a large place.-- Hosea 4

 

[Ron Gurley]

Jeremiah 49:4
“How boastful you are about the valleys! Your valley is flowing away, O backsliding daughter Who trusts in her treasures, saying, ‘Who will come against me?’

 

[Ron Gurley]

The LEAVE + CLEAVE "ONE FLESH" SPIRITUAL TRUTH of Marrige: Husband and Wifr...(NASB)

Genesis 1:27
God created man in His own (SPIRITUAL) image,
in the image of God He created him;
male and female He created them.

Genesis 5:2
He created them male and female,
and He blessed them and named them Man in the day when they were created.

Genesis 2:24 (NASB)
For this reason a man (HUSBAND) shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his WIFE; and they shall become ONE FLESH.
(spiritually united by God...a RCC sacrament!)

Matthew 19: 4b-6 (NASB)
“Have you not read that:
He who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said,
‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his WIFE, and the two shall become one flesh’?
6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh.
What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.”

Ephesians 5: 22-33... Marriage is Like Christ and the "Church"
each individual among you also is to love his own WIFE even as himself,
and the WIFE must see to it that SHE respects her husband.

John 15: 12 “This is My commandment, that you love ONE ANOTHER, just as I have loved you.

DIVORCE PRINCIPLES...The GENERAL "will of God"

Malachi 2:16 (all NASB)
For I hate divorce,”
says the Lord, the God of Israel,
“and him who covers his garment with wrong,”
says the Lord of hosts.
“So take heed to your spirit, that you do not deal treacherously.”

Matthew 5:32 Jesus:
but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife (spouse),
except for the reason of unchastity,
makes her (spouse) commit adultery;
and whoever marries a divorced woman (spouse) commits adultery.

Matthew 19:9 Jesus:
And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife (spouse),
except for immorality,
and marries another woman (spouse) commits adultery.”

Matthew 19:6 Jesus:
So they are no longer two, but one flesh.
What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.”

1 Corinthians 7 (NASB)...Paul's Teaching on Marriage...The EXCEPTIONS?

12 But to the rest I say, NOT the Lord,
that if any brother (believer) has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he must not divorce her.
13 And a woman who has an unbelieving husband,
and he consents to live with her, she must not send her husband away.
14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband; for otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are holy.
Yet if the unbelieving one leaves, let him leave;
the brother or the sister is not under bondage in such cases, but God has called us to peace.
16 For how do you know, O wife, whether you will save your husband?
Or how do you know, O husband, whether you will save your wife?

2 Cor. 6 (NASB
14 Do not be bound together (yoked) with unbelievers; for
what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or
what fellowship has light with darkness? 15 Or
what harmony has Christ with Belial, or
what has a believer in common with an unbeliever? 16 Or
what agreement has the temple of God with idols?

 

[PeterDona]

I think that 2 Cor 6 does not belong in that list.

I believe that God's marriage law applies to every individual on earth. Difference of faith is not a ground for being loosed from the one-flesh covenant marriage.

 

[Ron Gurley]

"Difference of faith..."

Nope.

BELIEVER:
Saved per John 3 explained in Ephesians 2 AND spiritually changed

VERSUS

UN-BELIEVER:
The WICKED LOST...natural Man

Psalm 1:1
[ BOOK 1 ] [ The Righteous and the Wicked Contrasted. ]
How blessed is the man who does NOT
walk in the counsel of the wicked,
Nor stand in the path of sinners,
Nor sit in the seat of scoffers!

Proverbs 3:33
The curse of the Lord is on the house of the wicked, But He blesses the dwelling of the righteous.

Proverbs 10:16
The wages of the righteous is life, The income of the wicked, punishment.

Malachi 3:18
So you will again distinguish between the righteous and the wicked, between one who serves God and one who does not serve Him.

Matthew 13:49
So it will be at the end of the age; the angels will come forth and take out the wicked from among the righteous,

 

[PeterDona]

Well whatever you call it, God's marriage law applies to all human on earth.

1 Cor 7:11 in the true grammar says (acknowledging the aorist tense)
"but if she HAS departed let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to HER HUSBAND"

So even if the divorce happened before the woman became a believer, she is still bound to the man she was divorced from. Sets some ideas straight. Coming to Christ does not give you a "new chance" in the area of marriage.

 

[PeterDona]

And secondly, the verses you quoted speak not about the difference between believers and unbelievers, but about that IN THE CHURCH there will be a separation of the wheat from the chaff. Not verses to make those happy who claim that it is all faith and that we must do nothing.

 

[RDKirk]

Well whatever you call it, God's marriage law applies to all human on earth.

1 Cor 7:11 in the true grammar says (acknowledging the aorist tense)
"but if she HAS departed let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to HER HUSBAND"

So even if the divorce happened before the woman became a believer, she is still bound to the man she was divorced from. Sets some ideas straight. Coming to Christ does not give you a "new chance" in the area of marriage.

Then you're denying 2 Corinthians 5:17. Why would divorce be any different from any other sin before being saved, such as murder?

 

[Bible2+]

RDKirk said in post #128:

Then you're denying 2 Corinthians 5:17.

While Christians are already new creatures spiritually (2 Corinthians 5:17), they are not yet new creatures physically. And so they still await the resurrection (if dead), or changing (if alive), of their mortal physical bodies (Romans 8:23-25) into immortal physical bodies, at Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (1 Corinthians 15:22-23,51-58, Revelation 20:4-6), like the immortal physical body which Jesus Himself obtained on the third day after His death at His first coming (Luke 24:39-48, Philippians 3:21).

RDKirk said in post #128:

Why would divorce be any different from any other sin before being saved, such as murder?

Because of the "one flesh" principle (Matthew 19:5-6).

That's why the apostle Paul says:

1 Corinthians 7:11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.

If a woman divorces a valid husband, she can be said to be "unmarried" (1 Corinthians 7:11), legally. But 1 Corinthians 7:11 does not say: "let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her non-husband", but to her "husband". For in God's eyes, her first, valid husband is still her husband. It is because of this that her only Christian choices are to remain unmarried legally, or to remarry her first, valid husband legally (1 Corinthians 7:11). If she marries another man legally while her first, valid husband is still alive, both she and that other man will be committing adultery against her first, valid husband (Mark 10:12, Luke 16:18b).

 

[RDKirk]

While Christians are already new creatures spiritually (2 Corinthians 5:17), they are not yet new creatures physically. And so they still await the resurrection (if dead), or changing (if alive), of their mortal physical bodies (Romans 8:23-25) into immortal physical bodies, at Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (1 Corinthians 15:22-23,51-58, Revelation 20:4-6), like the immortal physical body which Jesus Himself obtained on the third day after His death at His first coming (Luke 24:39-48, Philippians 3:21).



Because of the "one flesh" principle (Matthew 19:5-6).

That's why the apostle Paul says:

1 Corinthians 7:11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.

If a woman divorces a valid husband, she can be said to be "unmarried" (1 Corinthians 7:11), legally. But 1 Corinthians 7:11 does not say: "let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her non-husband", but to her "husband". For in God's eyes, her first, valid husband is still her husband. It is because of this that her only Christian choices are to remain unmarried legally, or to remarry her first, valid husband legally (1 Corinthians 7:11). If she marries another man legally while her first, valid husband is still alive, both she and that other man will be committing adultery against her first, valid husband (Mark 10:12, Luke 16:18b).

Paul addresses Christians married to pagans entirely separately from Christians married to Christians, and he does not give that instruction to Christians married to pagans.

There is no Christian instruction at all to pagans. None at all. That's because 2 Corinthians 5:17 actually means what it says, and there can be no exceptions without completely destroying the concept of salvation.

Zero exceptions. New creation. Period.

 

[PeterDona]

Then you're denying 2 Corinthians 5:17. Why would divorce be any different from any other sin before being saved, such as murder?

Because marriage is not a sin. So it is not washed away in the baptism.

 

[PeterDona]

RDKirk, should your beliefs by chance be catholic inspired? This distinction between pagan marriages and christian marriages, I only saw that in catholic webpages.

God's marriage law was given to all people regardless of religion and race. However, as christians we should be the more eager to keep it as we know that it is righteous, and we should be workers of light and not of darkness.

 

[RDKirk]

Because marriage is not a sin. So it is not washed away in the baptism.

Everything a pagan does is in sin. A pagan can't help but sin.

For those who live according to the flesh think about the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, about the things of the Spirit.

For the mindset of the flesh is death, but the mindset of the Spirit is life and peace. For the mind-set of the flesh is hostile to God because it does not submit itself to God’s law, for it is unable to do so. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. -- Romans 8

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. -- Hebrews 11

If a pagan gives food to a homeless man, that's still sin because he gives it out of the conceit of his flesh, not in obedience to the Lord. When a pagan marries, that is still sin because he marries out of the conceit of the flesh, not in obedience to the Lord. Thus, to a pagan, a righteous marriage is not necessarily "between one man and one woman" because his concept of marriage is not of the Lord. If his mind was not righteous, then the act was not righteous.

Therefore, 2 Corinthians 5:17 is absolute. Everything of the pagan's old life, every act whether "good" or "bad" (which in either case was only a matter of the conceit of the flesh) passes away when he becomes a new creation in Christ.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

If divorced and remarried.

Make a firm decision to stay with the one you are with and to love them forever.

A Christian should take marriage very seriously and not run to divorce easily.

As the world thinks -- oh well if things don't go perfectly I can just leave him or her no big deal.

A Christian knows that God is involved in their marriage and He does not like divorce.

After all He told us that we might be better off without one but, we just had to have one.

For most better than to burn with lust.

M-Bob

 

[PeterDona]

If divorced and remarried.

Make a firm decision to stay with the one you are with and to love them forever.

I stand in 180 degree opposition to that statement. I mean no disrespect, but this is a debate forum. Let me give the reason for my opposition.

Luke 16:18 : " Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery."

Now some will say, OK, just ask forgiveness for the adultery and then move on. Believing that the adultery is a one time act. But the problem is that it is not. It is a perpetual condition.

This is seen when we go to the greek grammar of the verse, making room for the aorist tense (finished past tense) and the present tense (present continuous tense). The passage will be like this

Luke 16:18 : " Whosoever HAS PUT away his wife, and HAS MARRIED another, committeth PRESENT CONTINUAL adultery: and whosoever HAS MARRIED her that is put away from her husband committeth PRESENT CONTINUAL adultery."

Now add to that the understanding of what adultery is. Adultery is a sexual relation where one or both partners is married to someone else. That means, THE PREVIOUS MARRIAGE STILL STANDS !

So in conclusion the first marriage still stands, the second marriage is adultery, and most surely repentance from that would include forsaking of the sin, i.e. forsaking the adultery, and if possible reconciling with the spouse of first marriage.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

I stand in 180 degree opposition to that statement. I mean no disrespect, but this is a debate forum. Let me give the reason for my opposition.

Luke 16:18 : " Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery."

Now some will say, OK, just ask forgiveness for the adultery and then move on. Believing that the adultery is a one time act. But the problem is that it is not. It is a perpetual condition.

This is seen when we go to the greek grammar of the verse, making room for the aorist tense (finished past tense) and the present tense (present continuous tense). The passage will be like this

Luke 16:18 : " Whosoever HAS PUT away his wife, and HAS MARRIED another, committeth PRESENT CONTINUAL adultery: and whosoever HAS MARRIED her that is put away from her husband committeth PRESENT CONTINUAL adultery."

Now add to that the understanding of what adultery is. Adultery is a sexual relation where one or both partners is married to someone else. That means, THE PREVIOUS MARRIAGE STILL STANDS !

So in conclusion the first marriage still stands, the second marriage is adultery, and most surely repentance from that would include forsaking of the sin, i.e. forsaking the adultery, and if possible reconciling with the spouse of first marriage.

Would you wish to send half of those in church attendance to hell?
I guess?

I believe in repentance for
ALL SINS
EVEN MURDER
MUCH LESS
ADULTERY

M-Bob

 

[PeterDona]

Would you wish to send half of those in church attendance to hell?
I guess?

That is what I call an ad-hominem argument. Give scripture to your position, and dont put things into my shoes which do not belong there.

There is a major church in the world who agree 95% with my position, namely the catholic church. And by their own statement they hold to the tradition inherited from the first christians. In the field of marriage doctrine, I believe that they actually do follow the first christians, who were also unanimous against divorce and remarriage, and had the concept of invalid marriages.

BTW, I stated that this is a "debate" forum. I would correct myself. As a christian forum, it is a forum to care for the flock, and to discuss doctrine.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

There is a major church in the world who agree 95% with my position, namely the catholic church.

Probably true and also probably true nearly half are remarried?

Has the pope condemned them all?

If not let me know.

M-Bob

 

[PeterDona]

Hm, well you have good humor. There is internal pressure in the catholic church to open to remarrieds. But until now they withstood it.

OK time for Bible and prayer, be back another day.

 

[bling]

That is what I call an ad-hominem argument. Give scripture to your position, and dont put things into my shoes which do not belong there.

There is a major church in the world who agree 95% with my position, namely the catholic church. And by their own statement they hold to the tradition inherited from the first christians. In the field of marriage doctrine, I believe that they actually do follow the first christians, who were also unanimous against divorce and remarriage, and had the concept of invalid marriages.

BTW, I stated that this is a "debate" forum. I would correct myself. As a christian forum, it is a forum to care for the flock, and to discuss doctrine.

Where do you find in scripture the concept of "invalid marriages"? Christ could have easily described it as such and for Him to call it "marriage" when if you are right it is an "invalid marriage" would be misleading on Christ's part which I do not find any other time. Christ weighs each "word" perfectly.