Literal Interpretation of Bible Prophecy: Help or Hindrance?

[BABerean2]

According to Romans 11, Jews have been spiritually blinded by God to this day.

Have all of the Jews been "partially" blinded, or are part blinded and part are not blinded?

If your statement above was correct, no modern Jew could come to faith in Christ.

Whether you know it or not, you have put the Dispensationalist's spin on the passage...

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[Ronald]

Give us your assessment of this passage please:
After David defeated Saul (which I hope we can agree is already fulfilled and not future to us) He described that Battle this way: (2 Samuel 22:8-16)

8“Then the earth shook and trembled;
The foundations of heaven quaked and were shaken,
Because He was angry.
9 Smoke went up from His nostrils,
And devouring fire from His mouth;
Coals were kindled by it.
10 He bowed the heavens also, and came down
With darkness under His feet.
11 He rode upon a cherub, and flew;
And He was seen upon the wings of the wind.
12 He made darkness canopies around Him,
Dark waters and thick clouds of the skies.
13 From the brightness before Him
Coals of fire were kindled.

14 “The Lord thundered from heaven,
And the Most High uttered His voice.
15 He sent out arrows and scattered them;
Lightning bolts, and He vanquished them.
16 Then the channels of the sea were seen,
The foundations of the world were uncovered,
At the rebuke of the Lord,
At the blast of the breath of His nostrils.

Please demonstrate for us your proof that these things LITERALLY happened.

Did God come down to earth at that time, visibly seen upon a cherub, riding a cloud, shooting actual arrows at Saul's armies, bowing the heavens and laying the foundation of the entire earth bare, as He kindled fire with the breath of His nostrils?



Since scripture teaches that Human Beings are fully capable of the gravest of Sin and Evil wholly absent of any Satanic Influence, where do your get the notion that Humans will be incapable of sinning while Satan is bound?

Did God save David from his enemies, from Saul? Yes he did. David shows his appreciation in a song. Is it possible that David saw this vision of the Lord doing these things? Is David lying to us or exagerating? That is for you to answer. We are also told of a vision that Elisha had of an army of angels present, when no one else could see them. Were they literally there? YES (2 Kings 6:8-23)

 

[jgr]

The demise of the belief in the Bible started a long time ago. The attempt to destroy it failed every time.
Fast forwarding to Darwin and his theory, the Age of Reason, the Industrial Revolution and we see man going off in different directions, more secular in his thinking. Science begins to take the forefront and basis for arguments against the Bible and God. But science was started by Christians for the purpose of understanding God's creation, not to refute the Bible or God's existence.
The TOE had somewhat of an impact. It gave people with doubts about the Bible, a reason not to believe and with many others, they compromised their beliefs. So a segment of Christianity reasoned through this theory and decided that the book of Genesis cannot be taken literally, because the TOE would not fit into to the story of our origins, the story that God told us in a very straight forward, simple way. Compromise, that's what humans do. Half of Christianity settled on this merger of sorts called Theistic Evolution.
This is their assumption: [They reasoned that Genesis could not be taken literally completely, they were left with a book of symbolism, allegories, abstract views. So now, God did not create the earth and universe in 6 literal days, nor did He create finished life forms - no its all different now - they think He just started things up and let evolution finish the job. And He supposedly gave nature a mind to sort out mutations on its own and here we are!]
What a crock!
The danger of not taking Genesis literally leads to doing the same thing to the rest if the Bible. And since they messed with the beginning of the story, why not mess with the end? If the beginning isn't literally true and the end isn't either, what really is our faith in. If course the attempt to destroy or at least distort the story of Jesus has been going on for 2000 years. The secularist will ask you:
DO YOU LITERALLY BELIEVE THAT JESUS DIED FOR THE SINS IF THE WORLD AND THEN CAME BACK TO LIFE THREE DAYS LATER? As for me, YES.
DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE IN ALL THOSE MIRACULOUS STORIES? Yes.
DO YOU REALLY THINK THE END OF THE WORLD IS COMING ... JUDGMENT ...
GODS WRATH ... TO PUT AN END TO SIN AND EVIL AND THEN JESUS WILL REIGN AS KING FOR 1000 YEARS AS WRITTEN IN PROPHECY? YES, THATS EXACTLY WHAT I BELIEVE WORD FOR WORD.
A LITERAL GENESIS TOO? YES

So, provide us with your literal interpretation of Genesis 3:15.

 

[Ronald]

Is Jesus on David's throne now based on what Peter said in Acts chapter 2?

Isaiah 9:6-7 — The Messiah will rule from the throne of David, giving the world a government of peace, justice, and righteousness. ( The throne of David is not in Heaven. It is located in Jerusalem.) Jesus is not now on the throne of David. He sits at the right hand of His Father on His Father's throne.
"He will be great, and will be called the So of the Highest, and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David." Luke 1:32
As far as I know, David did not receive a throne in heaven which is where Jesus is sitting on the right of His Father!

Your description of the removal of the curse with wolves and lambs and children is found in the New Heavens and the New Earth in Isaiah chapter 65, after this earth is remembered no more.

Maybe I am wrong, apparently friendly animals are not in the Millennial Kingdom. ??? With sin and evil absent, my psyche unconsciously used this reasoning that animals would not fear man anymore. Notice in Isaiah that a baby will die at 100 years old? I thought death and hades were destroyed in the Lake of Fire in the end.???

If the beast comes up out of the pit in Revelation chapter 11, where is he now?

I haven't spoken with him in a while, he doesn't return my calls. Where is that beast I ask, I don't know. He's probably disguised as one of the four horsemen in Rev. 6:4, beheld at the River Euphrates with another three angels.
Satan is not bound right now. If you cannot discern that he is in the World seeking to destroy, than you must be living in a different world. Evil abounds and Satan is behind it. The world of humans are guilty, but make no mistake, he is luring them, tempting them and wrecking havoc. It is coming to a head. When the Church is removed, The Restrainer (Holy Spirit) will be removed out of the way and then Satan will be given full reign! Then you will know we are in a Great Tribulation Period. Then you will quickly abandon your former beliefs.

 

[Ronald]

So, provide us with your literal interpretation of Genesis 3:15.

Is that your favorite, I noticed you asked someone else. Is that your main argument for not taking the Bible literally, you found one symbolic verse? lol The Bible has many, but they are usually explained in scripture.
Gen.3:15 is symbolic
Enmity = Hatred between Satan's seed (the world of unbelievers, false religions) and Christianity
It established a redeemer, Christ (the woman's seed) and also the "bruised heel" suggests His blood sacrifice on the cross and possibly the his effecting the lives of His followers, their walk and faith by persecution, etc.
Satan's bruised head means he will be defeated and ultimately thrown into the Lake of Fire.

 

[BABerean2]

Notice in Isaiah that a baby will die at 100 years old?

Do you not see a problem with the logic above?
How are you going to have death in the New Heavens and New Earth?

How are you going to have a baby 100 years old?

How can you ignore verse 17 below, to make your doctrine work?

Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
Isa 65:18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
Isa 65:19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
Isa 65:20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.
(There shall not be any of the things that follow the word "more" in the verse above.)

Isa 65:21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
Isa 65:22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
Isa 65:23 They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them.
Isa 65:24 And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.
Isa 65:25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.
(The verse above is a description of the removal of the curse in the New Heavens and New Earth. It will be similar to life in the garden, before the fall.)

.

 

[Ronald]

Have all of the Jews been "partially" blinded, or are part blinded and part are not blinded?

I didn't say partially blinded. The Bible says they were blinded! Romans 11:7
vs. 8 "God has given them a spirit of stupor,
Eyes that should not see
And ears that they should not hear
To this very day."
But not all were blinded, obviously some were drawn to Christ. And throughout history others came as well.
Some branches were broken off so that we could be grafted in.
"... if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again." vs. 23

"For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in."

>That fullness of the Gentiles, is the gospel having been preached to the entire world and everyone in the Book of Life being accounted for - which has about been complete

 

[Ronald]

Do you not see a problem with the logic above?
How are you going to have death in the New Heavens and New Earth?

Oh boy, that was my point. How could there be death after the New Heaven and Earth is created? Please read what I said before you blurt out a distortion. That is why Isaiah 65 must be speaking of the Millennial Kingdom.

 

[jgr]

Is that your favorite, I noticed you asked someone else. Is that your main argument for not taking the Bible literally, you found one symbolic verse? lol The Bible has many, but they are usually explained in scripture.
Gen.3:15 is symbolic
Enmity = Hatred between Satan's seed (the world of unbelievers, false religions) and Christianity
It established a redeemer, Christ (the woman's seed) and also the "bruised heel" suggests His blood sacrifice on the cross and possibly the his effecting the lives of His followers, their walk and faith by persecution, etc.
Satan's bruised head means he will be defeated and ultimately thrown into the Lake of Fire.

It's the first prophecy, so it's my first favorite among many. What is it for you?

If you can provide the quote where I argued that the Bible should not be taken literally, I'd be most interested to see it.

You have correctly observed that Genesis 3:15 is symbolic. It is also spiritual, in that it requires spiritual insight to understand its message.

So Genesis 3:15 is the first prophecy, and it is spiritual. It is thus reasonable to expect that there are other spiritual prophecies which follow it.

There are also many literal prophecies. Distinguishing between literal and spiritual necessitates wisdom and discernment, which James instructs us to request of God (James 1:5).

But the oft-repeated claim that "All prophecy that has been fulfilled has been fulfilled literally" is invalidated in Scripture's very first.

 

[parousia70]

Jews number some 14 million or so.

If science is to be believed, Jewish DNA runs through Every single one of the 7 billion Humans alive today, so your either your math is off, or there is some other criteria besides Abrahamic DNA that God uses to determine Jewishness.

 

[BABerean2]

Oh boy, that was my point. How could there be death after the New Heaven and Earth is created? Please read what I said before you blurt out a distortion. That is why Isaiah 65 must be speaking of the Millennial Kingdom.

If the text says it is the New Heavens and New Earth, then your understanding of 100 year old babies dying cannot be correct.

 

[seventysevens]

If the text says it is the New Heavens and New Earth, then your understanding of 100 year old babies dying cannot be correct.

When the scripture says Jesus returns in flaming fire - how do you envision this ?
Jesus engulfed in fire coming to earth ? him shooting arrows of fire ?

Just because you don't believe there will be a kingdom on this earth does not mean you are right
When you ride a bicycle do you look forward to where you are going or is the bicycle moving forward while you are looking behind you looking at where you have been ?

 

[seventysevens]

How are you going to have a baby 100 years old?

There is a book called Genesis that has several examples of people living to be nearly 1000 years old and that is how it will be during the very last generation of mortal humanity living during the 1000 years that satan is locked in his prison , when you can live to be nearly 1000 years old a person at 100 could be considered a baby - not an infant

In today's world many times Iv'e heard people say in regard to people who are in their 20's such as 25 as a baby , ie. "the good they die young , she was only just 25 - just a baby as she had such a long life yet ahead of her."

 

[jgr]

Jews number some 14 million or so.

As parousia70 has posted, and the "Jews" themselves agree:

Abraham lineage

DNA Tests Could Fulfill God’s Promise to Abraham by Revealing Millions of Jews. But How Jewish is Jewish Enough?

Israel in all of Us? Research finds 'Jewish genes' in unusual places

 

[seventysevens]

As parousia70 has posted, and the "Jews" themselves agree:

Abraham lineage

DNA Tests Could Fulfill God’s Promise to Abraham by Revealing Millions of Jews. But How Jewish is Jewish Enough?

Israel in all of Us? Research finds 'Jewish genes' in unusual places

And yet there are many Jews that do not agree .....or it be likely that the Jews that agree have that special .1% of Jewish DNA

 

[jgr]

And yet there are many Jews that do not agree .....or it be likely that the Jews that agree have that special .1% of Jewish DNA

The science doesn't lie.

And the "Jews" welcome and applaud the proliferation of their DNA, because they consider it the literal fulfillment of the Abrahamic promise.

It's the kind of fulfillment that a dispensationalist loves.

Except this fulfillment backfires on them.

 

[seventysevens]

The science doesn't lie.

And the "Jews" welcome and applaud the proliferation of their DNA, because they consider it the literal fulfillment of the Abrahamic promise.

It's the kind of fulfillment that a dispensationalist loves.

Except this fulfillment backfires on them.

Its funny how you declares 'the Jews ' agree when many Jews do not agree, your polls must be from the secular socialist liberal democrats from NBC_CNN_ABC_CBS

those from all various diaspora knew their genectic-maternal Jewish heritage without any DNA tests and they were happy campers as well - it is obvious that people who prefer to be amil are intimidated by dispensations , I have heard more about that topic here in this forum in a few weeks than I had in all my life , personally I don't ever give it thought - don't follow it - but it funny that amils don't care about it either but talk about it far more often than those who do follow it

 

[jgr]

Its funny how you declares 'the Jews ' agree when many Jews do not agree, your polls must be from the secular socialist liberal democrats from NBC_CNN_ABC_CBS

those from all various diaspora knew their genectic-maternal Jewish heritage without any DNA tests and they were happy campers as well - it is obvious that people who prefer to be amil are intimidated by dispensations , I have heard more about that topic here in this forum in a few weeks than I had in all my life , personally I don't ever give it thought - don't follow it - but it funny that amils don't care about it either but talk about it far more often than those who do follow it

What "Jews" do not agree? Quotes please.

There is no mention of "polls" in the links I included.

Of course past Jews knew their lineage from records. Genetic science today is merely confirming and expanding upon that.

Amils, dispensations, etc. have nothing to do with genetic science.

You don't hear about it because it is a further confirmation of the fallacy of the two peoples of God doctrine. The dispensational camp certainly wants to hear nothing of it.

 

[seventysevens]

The science doesn't lie.
it's the kind of fulfillment that a dispensationalist loves.
Except this fulfillment backfires on them.

I don't doubt the science ,
rather simply pointing out the obviously glaring motivation behind the continuous asking of questions like ' how much DNA is required ' it is a moot point - not relevant at all as there is no discussion on the topic for the topics sake - but the Reason for bringing it up is just another knife attack brought on by amils to attack either premil or pre trib or disbelieving that there is a difference between Jews that are not followers of Jesus have a direct heritage to Israel .
People who have a direct maternal heritage to Jews are far more likely to be a true lineage in Jewish bloodline than someone who takes a DNA test and finds that they have 1% Jewish DNA , maternal heritage Jews are far more likely to be following the old Jewish lifestyles than someone who never gave it a thought that they might be Jewish and suddenly thinks they are Jewish because they have a slight bit of Jewish DNA
American People who find they have a heritage to Sioux Indians don't suddenly call themselves Indians .
It is nothing more than the Classic textbook example of ' trying to lift ones self up by tearing others down " exactly what Jesus said NOT to do

All day , day in day out every day , every week , every month the constant onslaught of endless attacks , which is why Darby - Scofield and others are constantly under attack , constant posting of videos against premil or pre anything . It is obvious that the only reason that DNA is brought up is to put down what someone else believes without any proof it is false or what amils suppose is true, it is not having any positive impact -

If you take a step back and look at all the threads and the posts in the threads , at least 90% of what amils talk about is something negative about what they don't believe is true - so what , big deal only thing that is being accomplished is negative badgering - it be like watching a back biting election campaign where all ads are saying bad things against their opponent .
The constant endless barrage against your brethren is only causing division results in fights , nothing at all good comes from it - amils almost never engage in anything positive or uplifting ,. or encouraging or loving ,

Why not put aside the differences and talk about things that everyone can engage in .
accept the fact there are differences and focus on positive things . The constant barrage on anything amils don't agree with while never saying anything positive that can be uplifting or encouraging to their brothers and sisters in Christ are so not likely to have any positive uplifting effect to bring non believers to Christ, Why not try something like as Paul said about the harpazo "Wherefore comfort one another with these words."

 

[Quasar92]

If a literal interpretation of Malachi 3 and 4 is required, literally Elijah, and not John the Baptist, should have prepared the way for Jesus.

But as it is, Jesus states John the Baptist is the Elijah that came.

This prophecy is fulfilled spiritually through John the Baptist

John the Baptist paved the way for Jess in His first advent. Elijah will pve the3 way for Him in Jis second advent as revealed in Jesus transfiguration, into His kingdom, in Mt.17:1-2, with Elijah and Moses appearing with Him at that time. John the Baptist and Elijah are two very separate individuals.


Quasar92